What do you think? Is Apple moving away from their Pro Apps or are they prepping the user base for Snow Leopard?

At first I was lukewarm about the FCS3 release, but now I'm thinking, there might be a method to the madness. Maybe Apple has been busy tying up loose ends and squashing bugs in OSX and FCS so when Snow Leopard and the next generation Pro Apps are released, Apple can confidently move forward without having to look backward. Basically taking care of the current installed user base ... as is, and then offering something newer, better, faster. It's a sound business strategy. Or am I being an Apple apologist?

An interesting hypothesis.

My question would be whether Apple would use the "core" of FCP in any new "pro" release as there are SO many 3rd party hardware devices designed and optimized for FCP. It also seems to me that since Apple already has iMovie and Final Cut Express that they are already positioned for nearly complete market coverage. I COULD see a bit more of a migration of FCP to higher end use and transitioning whatever would be necessary to FCE so that mid level users wouldn't feel the same need to move to FCP but I couldn't put my finger on exactly what features those would be.

I honestly think that FCP has been watered down with recent releases that seem to make it easier for newer NLE editors to access it that take away from the more traditional high end NLE features: the one that peeves me most is the automatic inclusion of an audio cross dissolve when I add a video cross dissolve. A pro level editor SHOULD treat audio and video separately UNLESS this is a user selectable option. This was obviously added for the benefit of event videographers and those that assemble video montages but works very poorly for training, promotion and broadcast applications.

It will be interesting to see how Apple treats the Final Cut franchise after Snow Leopard.

What do you think? Is Apple moving away from their Pro Apps or are they prepping the user base for Snow Leopard?

At first I was lukewarm about the FCS3 release, but now I'm thinking, there might be a method to the madness. Maybe Apple has been busy tying up loose ends and squashing bugs in OSX and FCS so when Snow Leopard and the next generation Pro Apps are released, Apple can confidently move forward without having to look backward. Basically taking care of the current installed user base ... as is, and then offering something newer, better, faster. It's a sound business strategy. Or am I being an Apple apologist?

No Apologist here more like sound reasoning.

Apple's likely doing this in steps.

1. Deliver features that leverage more Leopard OS features and move the suite to Intel only processors.

2. Deliver next generation Snow Leopard and then eventually update FCS for Snow Leopard and take advantage of some of the new features.


Now I don't think that moving to Snow Leopard is going to bring Blu-ray burning or a plethora of features but it'll bring the ability to run 64-bit through and through. It'll bring
even more efficient use of multi core processors and with Quicktime X it should bring some video improvements as well.

I doubt Apple delivers a Snow Leopard savvy version for quite some time (9 months or so) as they will need to polish Snow Leopard with some point releases first.

I attended an Apple presentation today on the new features.

This release seems to be all about features for high end cinema/film workflow, particularly in Color and their support for different codecs and image sequences.

I don't think they're abandoning the pro market.

If they were abandoning the pro market, why would they waste time and money on developing new professional codecs for the high-end market?

I really can't see Apple abandoning their pro applications.

I believe Apple is definitely becoming more of a CONSUMER friendly company and ignoring their professional side of things. They did minimal updates to FCS just recently and acted like it was the holy grail. They get rid of their expresscard slots for a SD reader. They lose the replaceable batteries and give you false claims of battery life (cut of Wifi, bluetooth, & dim monitor till you can't see squat, etc.) to make you feel better about not EVER being able to replace the battery. They obviously are forgetting who their clients were even during times of rebuilding their own company.

As professionals, we should expect a little better treatment than the crap they have been dishing out lately. Now, I am so frustrated with them. Sure, I love apple WAY more than Microsoft as most of their stuff just works I have minimal thoughts of things going wrong on my mac. However lately, it seems they are moving toward the route of shuffling out small incremental crap (sure, some of the features are useful) upgrades while focusing on their freakin app store and iphones. Why would I want an SD card reader in leiu of an expresscard port? That's my biggest pet peeve.

Also let's examine the FCS.

Final Cut - It's pretty good, however, I have learned to hate how they can't be like the rest of the world and offer wider support for codecs NATIVELY, as in I don't wrap them to .mov files and am no longer able to use them on other editors. For me as an EX1 user, I am starting my full switch to Adobe Premiere because, I can get the original BPAV folders on my drive and start editing. No rewrapping, or anything. Once rewrapped, I'm pretty screwed as far as options.

Color - It's ok, however, are they ever going to completely rewrite the software they purchased so that it is consistent in UI, or are they just going to continue to put little features into a software package someone else already made and slap their name on it.

Motion - Should I even go there? Motion is great in concept, but POOR POOR POOR in execution. You wanna see a program crash on the almighty mac?........Just use motion. And also, what the heck happened to Node based compositing? I mean, they bought Shake and never really did anything with it. This new version of Motion was SUPPOSED to be the after effects killer. I was expecting to see a motion like interface mixed with Node based compositing and other features from shake. The upgrades seen on this program were rather minimal for the claims rumored around before it's release.

Compressor - Holy terrible User Interface.......this program really came from apple? And the encoding times get ridiculous sometimes. I just have learned to HATE this program!

Soundtrack Pro - I use it to grab different sound effects it comes with and export them. I just don't get this program. It's not very friendly.

I won't even go into the other things. I really liked Final Cut at first. Now, I'm not so sure. I keep flip flopping around but now think I am going to just go all Adobe. I have CS4 Master Collection and honestly, I couldn't be happier about editing from my original camera files with Premiere Pro. I have always loved After Effects and about 99% of things I do can be done in AE. I also have Lightroom which IMO beats the crap out of Aperture. Again, another example of apple locking you into their software. Apple seemed to have peiced together some decent stuff, but I don't get why they can't make all their stuff work better together like Adobe has done with their CS4 products.

All in all, I feel let down by apple. Adobe has stepped up their game and it shows that they have been around longer with how well their stuff works and how it works together. So after finishing up one more project in Final Cut, I am gonna scrap the FCS. The only reason I have to do this last project is because about half of my footage is trapped under the .mov wrapper and I don't want to transcode to something else. The wrapper leaves the native footage inside it so picture quality doesn't change. So to stay true to what I captured I'm just gonna work through it one last time. Then I'll be editing from my original files from now on.

Apple's still committed to Pro Apps.

Final Cut Studio isn't the biggest upgrade in the world but hopefully it's setting the stage for more significant upgrades going forward now that it will have access to 64-bit functionality and more performance ehancing features of OS X.

Color will likely not change much in UI. The needs of color grading don't seem to jive with the UI that an editor would use. I think those familiar with grading understand it and those familiar with more traditional UI do not.

Motion seems to have a bit of a focus issue. Apple needs to kind of solidify its place in the suite with a clarification of what it does and doesn't do.

Compressor - Haven't really heard all that many complaints about it.


I think Adobe has done a good job with their suite of apps but i'm not ruling out some good evolution of Final Cut Studio . It'll get there.

For an edit suite I SHOULDN'T have to use another codec to get things done. So screw the Prores marketing hype. Apple is great at marketing but if you look past what THEY are telling you and think about it, It's just not worth it. Just get an edit suite that can perform.

I was bummed at this FCP "lowgrade" when it came out, too. We have 4 edit suites and we haven't even upgraded yet. That shows how important the things they added are. (Time code window? Woo hoo! That was really one of the top 10 "new features?" Ugh.)

Anyways, the more I've thought about it and calmed down, the more I think this was just a bridge upgrade and that we are going to see the new overhauled re-write that has been rumoured for 2 years around NAB time. This would make sense. So, once again, I will wait this Spring to see if they announce an app with real improvements and stability.

I think FCP 7 is a great upgrade with many small, subtle improvements. But those subtle improvements made my life so much easier. Absolutely love it. I am sure FCP 8 will be a major update that's truly 64-bit and written in cocoa.

I don't really use Motion. I prefer After Effects.

SoundTrack Pro is awful. Worst program ever.

Compressor is ugly but it works. I prefer it over Adobe Media Encoder.

Color is great. Ever seen Da Vinci? Or every other old-school video program for very specific tasks. They all have the same kind of black simple interface. Magic Bullet Looks? Also has a similar UI. I am perfectly fine with this.

DVDStudio Pro. Really needs an update. I prefer Encore.

Also Premiere Pro might be easier in some regards, but far worse on many other points. And if there is one program that crashes often, it is Premiere. Also, professional editors are on Avid or Final Cut (generalizing it) but it is the truth. Together they have like 90% market share among professional editors. So if you work on projects with other people, nothing beats Avid or Final Cut Pro. The good thing is you can easily bring in your footage from Final Cut to Premiere and then use some cool features like speech transcription, adobe dynamic link with after effects, adobe clip notes for sharing and collaboration or easy exports to Encore. Use the best tools of both worlds.

Why do people force themselves to use FCS or CS4. They work together perfectly fine!

I guess my point wasn't as clear. I never said you couldn't use AE and FC together. Of course you can. I'm referring to the fact that once my EX1 Camera Master files are wrapped up, I'm sort of screwed. While Premeire Pro lets me edit from them and leave them intact as they came off the camera. So in turn if I wanted to move to any other edit suite, I still have my Camera Master files to use. So I could easily go to Final Cut and wrap them in mov's in a seperate folder and then edit with that. Or I could easily convert them to MXF with the included software for my camera. I screwed myself by only importing through FCS. Because now, I have just MOV versions of the files. If I were to hand that off to people who edit on a PC, they wouldn't be able to use the files. I do half the work by not rewrapping the files. It is the same time if you keep JUST the wrapped MOV files and scrap the original files. But that leaves me locked in. I think it is BS that they say NATIVE and yet to do so, you either have to lock yourself into the MOV files only or spend double the time transferring the original files, then rewrapping to work with Final Cut. I could easily just browse to the original image of files and start editing saving me lots of time. So therefor, I leave myself open to more options. I did discover however, the Mac version of Premeire Pro CS4 works with the mov files, so actually, I am going to do this project that is mixed, with Premeire. From this point on though, only the original Camera Master files. I could care less if everyone in the world used Final Cut, if the software I have chosen works for me and makes my workflow that much better then that is what I will use. It's obvious in MY CASE, that moving to Adobe is the smart choice.

On the other stuff, I discussed earlier, those were my big gripes as far as the new laptops. It's obvious they want to sell to consumers as they rid themselves of professional ports and add consumer ports such as SD reader. I know, apple needs to be a business that makes money and by appealing to the consumer market they are appealing to the masses which leads to more money in the long run, but damn, they should really start getting serious and listen to the creative professionals out there. The creative fields stuck with Macs even when they were struggling. To ignore us in favor of the generic consumer is ludicrous.

I have to agree with Nathan's statement about Motion bringing my Mac to it's knees. NEVER have I seen a Mac app so unstable. The only things I can guarantee will run are the training projects from a third party supplier I bought to teach me how to use this kludgy thing. And losing LiveType in favour of Motion for simple animated text is shortsighted. The FCP text tools are unusable and I JUST got used to building stuff in LT and importing project files that I could fly back and forth, updating as I go. Now, boom, gone. I'm waiting to do the upgrade at FCS (3) has nothing for ME.

Is it possible that the sole purpose of FCP was to make Mac relevant once again when it came to video editing? Add the marketing hype and "Apple iCool" and it has served its purpose ... you guys are still buying Apple Macs.

On a business level they can now afford to put minimal resources and publish notional upgrades, giving the app the appearance of still being alive. Not unlike what Microsoft have done with Internet Explorer once Netscape was knocked off its perch.

Andrew

Nathan, I just want to say that you might want to check out Avid Media Composer. You can edit XDCAM EX right off the card, no transcoding or wrapping necessary, FWIU.

There is a 30-Day trial and it works on both PC and Mac platforms. FCPS has some tools that I WISH were in Avid, namely Color, but Avid also has some very nice features, esp. for the Sony CineAlta shooters.

Is it possible that the sole purpose of FCP was to make Mac relevant once again when it came to video editing? Add the marketing hype and "Apple iCool" and it has served its purpose ... you guys are still buying Apple Macs.

I'll trust that that comment was meant in fun because at first look, I found it inflaming.

The Mac has always been relevant ESPECIALLY in regards to video editing but it didn't have the MAINSTREAM appeal that would make it economically feasible. So, the "coolness factor" marketing began.

When buying a Mac THESE days, one is buying tighter system integration and a generally better OS for creative endeavours and one is certainly paying a premium for it. Remember, it is quite possible to spend as much on a PC as it is on a Mac... There are just more budget minded options on the PC/Windows platform.

I was very aware at the time of writing that it would be easy to be perceived as trolling, so I wrote it in the most sombre straight forward way that I could.

I'm also aware of the AV capabilities of the Mac as far back as the 90s, and I also know of programmers who feel that the current Mac OS (with their interface on top of what is essentially Unix) is the best thing you can have to program on and to work with.

In the same straight forward tone, I would humbly point out that at the end of the day Apple is a business and they are duty bound to make a profit/return for their shareholders. They've made the investment in their own video editing app, and I suspect they will now be in a 'return on investment' phase.

Andrew

I was very aware at the time of writing that it would be easy to be perceived as trolling, so I wrote it in the most sombre straight forward way that I could.

I'm also aware of the AV capabilities of the Mac as far back as the 90s, and I also know of programmers who feel that the current Mac OS (with their interface on top of what is essentially Unix) is the best thing you can have to program on and to work with.

In the same straight forward tone, I would humbly point out that at the end of the day Apple is a business and they are duty bound to make a profit/return for their shareholders. They've made the investment in their own video editing app, and I suspect they will now be in a 'return on investment' phase.

Andrew

The whole ProApps team is working on cocoa rewrites so how can that be return on investment phase? It basically comes down to this: they can add many new features to legacy code at the moment that they are already rewriting the entire code to support 64-bit and cocoa. Or they can keep those features for a major update and make sure that the current code runs as stable and smoothly as possible. They choice the last option and I think that's the best option. I am 100% confident that the next FCS will be a heavy hitter. 64-bit, cocoa, full fledged BluRay support, OpenCL... performance is going to jump to the roof. And maybe they will even give all their ProApps a uniform look and feel. Who knows. I think some people just react to melodramatic. Software development is complicated.

Floris: I hope you are right with your prediction about the future of FCP. I see the current upgrade as being on par with the FCP 1 - 2 - 3 upgrade path in that I got NOTHING out of upgrading, so I didn't. Well, that's half true - I had to EVENTUALLY install FCP2 on my edit computer to finish a client project. My next purchase was FCP6/FCS2. I think I'll wait until 64 bit FCP is out and STABLE.

Floris, I'll concede to you knowing a lot more about what Apple is up to than I do.

Andrew

If FCS is not working for you, change to another NLE system / editing suite. Something about the right tool for the right job.

FCS is working for me so I can afford to wait till the next installment drops.

I don't have any inside information but I was at the FCP UG SuperMeet in Amsterdam where the panel of experts (including Michael Wohl, who was on the FCP team) gave some hints. I believe it is safe to assume that Apple is going to rewrite all their applications in 64-bit cocoa. The only question is when. Could be 2010, could be 2011... I don't know.

I can see why some people are disappointed. I only think switching to Adobe or Avid will solve some of your problems and introduce new ones. No system is perfect.

Floris: I hope you are right with your prediction about the future of FCP. I see the current upgrade as being on par with the FCP 1 - 2 - 3 upgrade path in that I got NOTHING out of upgrading, so I didn't. Well, that's half true - I had to EVENTUALLY install FCP2 on my edit computer to finish a client project. My next purchase was FCP6/FCS2. I think I'll wait until 64 bit FCP is out and STABLE.

That depends on your needs. The new markers and the ripple markers functions alone are worth it for me. I also like the new speed tools in FCP 7. Another thing I like is the background rendering although I think it can be greatly improved.

I'll trust that that comment was meant in fun because at first look, I found it inflaming.....

When buying a Mac THESE days, one is buying .... a generally better OS for creative endeavours ......

Pot, meet kettle.

Pot, meet kettle.

Excuse me?

My "possibly inflaming comment" remark was regarding the term "you guys" in the statement that made it sound like we Mac users were mindless sheep easily led by a marketing campaign.

And I stand by my statement that you have chosen to chop up (deleting a very brief but important in context 5 word statement).

The slow down in Apple's Pro apps development is a pattern that I have seen in the past with other software companies. Generally speaking when software becomes popular or a standard especially in the professional setting companies generally scale back on development, adding only enough new features to encourage current users to buy the next upgrade. In this stage the code base remains the same, I call this "milking". Apple isn't unique to this criticism, take for example how Adobe left Premiere to languish and only of recent revived it. Similar complaints have been made of Avid who know once a professional editor has invested all the time and money in their system its difficult to switch. Let us not forget the king of milking Microsoft, whose dominant position and ability to lock out competition allowed them to dish out sub par software with impunity. I'd say until Apple starts loosing significant customer for their Pro Apps they won't have a lot of motivation for radically changing the code base. Don't forget FCP wasn't developed by them but purchased, so any significant changes would require a complete re-write.

4:4:4(:4), 4K and native R3D makes it a pretty awesome upgrade from my perspective... as an Avid owner.

4:4:4(:4), 4K and native R3D makes it a pretty awesome upgrade from my perspective... as an Avid owner.
I'm not going to knock Avid since I've never used it but I've read negative reviews on aspects of the program, read complaints on message boards, and in general if it was that much better of an editing system there wouldn't be a place for FCP, Premiere, and Vegas. My general impression its been around a while has lots of plugins for it, is used in the professional world, but is targeted for companies with a bigger budget than consumer/one man shop. Point being, you could make an argument for and against any editing systems depending on the type of work you do.

I think the gist of the thread creator is he isn't happy with the lack of substantial improvement in the Pro Apps especially when compared to their competitors and to other divisions in the company where Apple has thrown most of its energies ie consumer products and software of iphone, ipod, etc. I'd even go farther to say they have intentionally not offered blu-ray support to the Pro Apps so that it won't compete with their download movie business model.

Many feel the meager improvements in the most recent release was a slap in the face after all the money they have spent on both Apple hardware and software. Its not an unfair criticism considering the premium you pay and how Apple touts themselves as the multimedia innovator and leader.

Apple to Introduce Final Cut Studio Update at NAB 2010? - Mac Rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/06/apple-to-introduce-final-cut-studio-update-at-nab-2010/)

...

I think the gist of the thread creator is he isn't happy with the lack of substantial improvement in the Pro Apps especially when compared to their competitors and to other divisions in the company where Apple has thrown most of its energies ie consumer products and software of iphone, ipod, etc. I'd even go farther to say they have intentionally not offered blu-ray support to the Pro Apps so that it won't compete with their download movie business model.

Many feel the meager improvements in the most recent release was a slap in the face after all the money they have spent on both Apple hardware and software. Its not an unfair criticism considering the premium you pay and how Apple touts themselves as the multimedia innovator and leader.

Pete,

The upgrade is $300 and a new install is $1K. That's a steal. The ability to do 4K in Color alone is worth many times that.

post deleted

It is clear that Apple is not abandoning it's Pro Apps:

Logic Studio - Updated for 64-bit
Aperture 3 - Updated for 64-bit
Final Cut Studio - Up next I suppose (NAB 2010?)

Considering they just laid off 40 people from the FCS division, I wouldn't be so sure:

"Apple laid off 40 of my old Final Cut team yesterday, lots of good people, despite high profits. Apple can be pretty evil.
8:16 AM Feb 12th from web

petewarden
Pete Warden "

If layoffs = Evil then there's not a Angelic company out there.

I'm surprised that Apple even has 40 people working on Final Cut Studio. That number sounds really high. While it's easy to assume that having a bunch of engineers means you get faster or higher quality software it in fact ends up being the opposite (Mythical Man Month).

Chances are they needed a bunch of engineers to do the heavy porting from Carbon to Cocoa and once that was done there wasn't really room for keeping a bunch of people regardless of whether they were "good" or not.

Harrison, that's a very good point about needing a large work force to port over all that code to Cocoa! I'm also enthused about the updated timeline in Aperture 3's advanced slideshows (http://www.apple.com/aperture/whats-new.html), it's just a neat "little" feature, but it bodes well for what we might expect in the next version of FCS.

Since when is a tweet a reliable source? It doesn't tell us anything. If there were 300 people working on a 64-bit cocoa version of Final Cut Pro, and the work is done and they fire 40, that says nothing about the future of Final Cut Pro. Do you really think they are going to upset a market in which they have a huge market share and that buys a lot of expensive gear (most people own a Mac Pro, Macbook Pro, Cinema Displays...).

I really don't believe that.