Well, I'm back again.
Prior to using the memory stick to capture a still image (using it similiar to a digital camera) is it necessary to do any type of setup in the menu or do you just put in the stick, set the camera to memory and take a picture??

Am I misunderstanding the purpose of the memory stick? I assume that it lets me use the pd170 like I use my Nikon D70 to take a "snapshot".

As soon as I insert the stick and turn the camera on the memory position, I get the error message mentioned in my previous post.

mike

What does Sony say in the 170 manual about the proper style of stick to use?
My 150 only uses the original sticks as far as I know. No Pro, no large sticks (128 Mbytes works OK).

I guess the days are gone when they would include a stick with the camera.

The book says that both sticks I tried are compatable. The second, as I stated is a Sony.
I still think there is something I need to do, maybe a setting, to make it ready.
Am I correct that the pd170 can be used like a digital photo camera?

Are you putting the switch on the right rear of the camera into CAMERA>MEMORY mode? I do not believe you can take a still pic with the camera set in any other way.
Just asking the obvious.
Don

Thanks Don.
Yes, as soon as I put the switch in the memory position, the camera beeps and flashes "memory stick error" message.

Have you tried formatting the stick with the camera? It may just be that it requires formatting.

The camera should save stills to tape as well. Puts about 6 seconds of still image onto the tape if the 170 is like my 150.

Mike, I can't format the stick either. Attempting to format gives the error message as well.

Call Sony Pro Support on Monday.

Call B&H and tell them you want a replacement camera if Sony concludes that the camera is indeed faulty.

Don't wait, you only have 7 days with B&H to exchange. Otherwise you'll have to ship it to Sony and wait about 2 weeks to get it back.

Thanks Mike.
I am going to call B&H tomorrow. Some of the guys there seem very knowledgible on the pd170.
I wondered if the Sony pro line was available 24/7.

just to jump in this thread - has anyone tried using the insert logo feature from graphic on stick?

leslie

ps. have used a couple of different sticks in my 170, all seemed to work fine. other than the above, don't really see any use for 'em though. capture still to tape works fine for me....

Well, B&H says it's defective...send it back!!
Maybe it's just me but a $3000.00 camera defective out of the box does not set too well.
I paid for overnight shipping because I have zero patience, now I will probably be without a camera for at least 1 week, probably longer.
I hope this is not an indication of the quality Sony is putting into the pro line.

BTW- It must not be my week for cameras. I bought an open box camera from Sears to use as a deck and guess what. It is defective too!! I will not play a tape.

OK, I'm through venting now.

mike

But that is a whole lot better than the seller telling you to send it off to Sony. You will get another new camera, not a repaired camera. Nothing wrong with repairs but there is a chance they will break something as Sony did to my first 150.

The delay is the price you pay for paying less of a price. You could have purchased the camera from a local supplier and paid list price.

Doesn't lessen the frustration, though.

Well, here goes>
As I stated above, the memory stick error was a mystery to the tech at b&H. I told him I was trying both a Lexar 512 and a Sony 256. He had me try resets, turn-off, turn-on, etc.

He determined the camera to be defective and got me an RMA #.

This all happened Sunday.

I went ahead and called Sony on Monday.
The tech there was totally surprised that I was having this problem and he too took me through a series of tests. I told him what sticks I was using and he said "no problem there unless the sticks are defective and it is unlikely that both are".
He determined the camera to be defective and suggested it be returned.

I filmed about 30 seconds with the camera to see if that worked. It did.

Tuesday I called b&h and told them to bill me for another camera, send it to me, and issue a refund when they get the defective camera that I have returned. (other wise they said it would be over a week after they get the return before they could get me out a replacement). I also ordered a sony vc 32 to use as a deck, a camera bag and a rain cover, another 500.00 worth.

Today I got the new camera, put the memory stick in and guess what MEMORY STICK ERROR!!!~

I call sony and a pro camera tech has me try every trick in the book, nothing works and finally after at least 20 minutes he asks if I have a small memory stick. I went and bought a 128, put it in and it works!!

We can't find anywhere in the book that the size is limited to 128, the tech did not know it, b&h did not know it.

HERE IS THE QUESTION: Will B&H accept the return since the camera is not defective but it is now used? I called them and a customer service rep said "no problem" but I can't help but worry. I can't afford 2 cameras!! The "defective" camera is already on the way back so I guess I must just trust in the good will of B&H.

I believe that the B&H return policy in the first 7 days is 'no questions asked.' If they said they would do it, they will.

Thanks for this info.
I felt guilty. That's why I called them and told them what had happened and that the camera was not defective.
I could live with the charges easier than I could live with the thought that I took advantage of something.

curiosity....

what do you use the memory stick for? stills?

leslie

I have a 256mb (128x2) sony mem stick--it works perfectly in my PD170, but a 256mb sony magic gate stick I recently picked up is incompatible with it. Go figure...
So it's not necessarily limited to 128mb, it's just that the PD170 is damned picky.
They really are fairly useless on the PD170...640x480 are the highest res stills you can take with the camera anyway.

This string has a happy ending for me.
B&H issued me a refund today!

Is there a way to keep the memory mix setting after shutting down and restarting the camera?

I haven't found it. Wish there was, because I often use a letterbox matte, and you always have to reapply it after shut down.

Thanks chris, same problem.

I have a scandisk media reader/writer. It reads/writes Memory Stick (all forms), Compact Flash, Xd cards, etc. I purchased a Sony 128mb Memory Stick (normal - and not too big). The camera reads the card but when I place a widescreen matte on the card from my computer and then try to view it on the cam, the camera says "no image." Anyone know anything about this? I've heard this is a tried and true method of shooting unsqeezed widescreen. If not via my writer, how am I supposed to put the matte on the stick? Help!
Thanks!

~~Dave

Are you using a Mac perhaps? I haven't used this feature on my VX-2000 in years, but I remember having the same problem. Someone pointed me to a fix using a shareware/freeware file converter. It seems that Photoshop puts JPEG files in a format which the VX-2000 doesn't like.

I don't remember the details, but I think the utility program I used was GraphicConverter: http://www.lemkesoft.de/en/graphcon.htm

(EDIT)

Here you go - does this help?

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=9649
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=6178

I am using a PC and the camera didn't come with any software. That link to the program is for Macs, right? Any other ideas?

Try this file out. It works on my VX2000:

http://www.makeyourfilm.net/downloads/DSC00027.jpg

The images I've placed on the memory stick are JPEGs, they are of the correct resolution and they are definitely on the stick but the camera still says "no file." On another note, my typical program that I use for downloading and uploading images doesn't recognize the drive so I copied and pasted the images into the drive that the memory stick was represented as. Does this make a difference?

I recently bought a Sony 128MB Memory Stick for use in my PD170. I use a Scandisk media reader/writer (works with compact flash, xd, memory stick, etc) and I'm having some issues. Firstly, I AM able to put the JPEGs on the stick, but only by dragging or copying and pasting into the stick's folder on the C:Drive (on a PC). My usual digital camera software doesn't recognize the stick, even though the computer reads it and assigns it a drive letter. For whatever reason, even though I can drag it and paste it in the folder, when I put the stick in the camera, it says "no file." I put it back in the computer and it's still there.
What's going on?

Hi Dave, sorry you haven't found a solution yet. I've merged this post with your existing thread so we can keep everything in the same place.

Have you tried doing all this using the little memory stick that came with the camera (my VX-2000 had something like a 4MB stick included)? I know there are several varieties of memory sticks, and am not sure whether the PD-170 can accept memory stick pro: http://www.memorystick.com/en/ms/variety.html

Evidently the memory stick pro doesn't work on the PDX-10 which is a similar generation Sony pro camcorder: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=10488

I also found this old thread, but the problem was related to a larger memory stick: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=63165

Do you have any other kind of device to test your memory stick on (still camera, VX-2000, a different computer, etc)? Seems like you need to verify that it isn't defective for starters.

For some reason, the 170 doesn't come with a memory stick or software that I've heard the 150 did have. I made sure with Sony that the memory stick I was going to buy was the correct type and size. The camera reads the stick and takes pictures on it, but it won't read the ones I put on the stick from my computer. I can't figure it out.
Just to reiterate, the stick is the right kind and size and does register in the camera and the camera will capture stills onto the stick. The images are JPEGs and are the correct resolution for what I want to do (put widescreen black bars over the captured video using the memory mix function). I'm using a PC.
Any thoughts?

the 170 does come with a memory stick, but perhaps, like me, you threw it out with the packing....

bought a sony 8mb memory stick - all ok.

leslie

I did a really thorough check of the packing and looked at the manual's list of included items/accessories and there was no stick in either. Whether there was or wasn't, the case is that I do now have a memory stick that works in the camera, but the camera won't recognize the files I've put on there. It works in every other respect (taking stills with the camera).

Have you tried copying files using another computer? That could narrow the problem down to a software issue on your PC, which seems like the likely culprit based on what you're saying.

i just got my VX2100, and i seem to be unable to figure out how to get pictures off of the stick.

anybody?
i tried to put it into an SD reader, but quickly found out it didn't fit. hahaha.

also, i am having trouble capturing on Final Cut Express HD.
could you give me a quick runthrough of how to do it correctly, haha.

thanks!

You need a Memory Stick card reader. Very similar to your SD card reader, except for the fact that it's compatible with the Memory Stick form factor (not sure why you thought a Secure Digital card reader would accept Memory Sticks). Anyway you can get a Memory Stick card reader just about anywhere these days... Walgreens, CVS, WalMart, Target, Radio Shack, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. etc. -- hope this helps,

ohh, alright.
thanks man!

Hi once again, I have a bit of a question although its probably me being a muppet.

I have downloaded a .psd file of black bars, my plan is to overlay them by memory mixing on my 2100 so i can frame correctly (thanks to a tip I found on this forum). I have tried exporting the file as both .bmp and .jpg but the 2100 doesn't pick it up, says "no images on card" or words to that effect.

I have tried colouring the background of the file blue and leaving the bars black, but i can't seem to get the image displayed on the lcd.

I have even tried copying a photograph to the card to display it but still the same.

What's wrong?

Thank you

Here is post I made in an earlier thread:

I am attaching mask I use. I am not guarantying it is exact aspect, but you can make your own in Photoshop. Load the mask on your memory chip and put it in camera.

For the VX2000, I would then start camera up in 4:3 mode, select memory mix. In the lower corner, you will see the current image in memory. Hit the + or - next to memory mix to go through available images, until you hit the mask. Make sure memory mix setting is using M.Chrom by using selector wheel at back of camera. Once you got image and m.chrom selected, press in on selector wheel, and the two images will mix, leaving you with black bars at top and bottom, but still with a 4:3 image.



http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachment.php?attachmentid=4161&d=1188191361

Are you using a Mac perhaps? There's something incompatible about the file types the VX/PD use, but evidently there are some other issues also. See the following: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=69672

OK, i worked out that "no images on card" actually was because my mask (and any other pics) were not saved in the DCIM/100MSDCF folder, and were not called DSC0000x.

I took a snap with the camera and loaded it into photoshop so I got the right sized image, put black bars at the top and bottom, turned the bkgrnd blue, then mixed it. (saved as jpg) I got a tiny square in the centre of my guide frame and the rest of the image was black. I didn't really know what I was doing. In the meantime, Chris had replied with his template. I tried this (had to rename it - wouldn't regonise it otherwise) followed Chris' instructions about m.chrom exactly, but I still got the small centre image and the rest of the screen masked.

I am using a PC Boyd, I'll check your thread link out now...

Thanks for the help so far...

Sorry I'm posting in this thread, its an old thread but I am having problems similar to this and this link was given to me to read.

It seems that you have to save the files created on PC into the DCIM folder, another folder called 100MSDCF and in the format of DCF0000x.jpg

I can now create mattes in photoshop and the vx2100 will now recognise the files.

Sorry if you know this already (the thread is a year old) but there was no solution.

Sorry, forgot to say - if I try to mix a photo taken by the camera it mixes that full screen and correctly. Just this mask file.

Dimensions of the mask file is 650 x 488
Dimensions of the photograph taken is 640 x 480

I have created a 640x480 image in Photoshop and made my own mask but it still does the same thing.

Wayne Orr's thread helped me, he gave me step by step instructions. Aparently it's something to do with the way Photoshop reads .jpg images - creating them has to be very specific with no thumbnails, certain quality, etc.

Thanks for all your help.

Russ

Yeah. Actually, as long as the filename is in the right format, the images will work. I figured it out shortly after this thread died. I took a still photo to the MS (with the PD170) and changed my file names to a similar format.

~~Dave

I recently purchased a Sony memory stick NON-PRO MAGICGATE MSH-128 exactly like this one on Ebay. (link removed) It ended up not working at all. I couldn't get it to work in my PD150, my HP PSC 1610xi all-in-one printer, or my computer (sony adapter to USB).

Is it because it is "MagicGate" or did I get hosed?

Chuck, see this post: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=455638&postcount=67

I've made plenty of Sony Memory Mix mattes, at first I just loaded them on the 1GB (one gigabyte) memory stick, no loading luck. Then I racked my brain and pulled my hair reading the manual, with no help there. But I did extrapolate that the only difference between a trv350 (ntsc) and a trv351(exclusively sold to South American market) was the inclusion of a memory stick preloaded with mattes for the trv351. The mattes were included on the software CD-ROM along with a program to load them. So I inserted and formated a SanDisk Memory Stick PRO Duo 1GB MagicGate in the camera and connected the camera to the computer with a 6pin(large) to 4pin(small) USB cable, and loaded the files. That didn't work because I loaded them into the root directory, but I had the mattes now, and used them as examples for creating more.

I examined the file/file-structure on the memory stick after touching 'record' during playback or touching record in Memory mode (to create a 320x240, 6fps, "MOV000xx.MPG") - or snapping stills by pressing photo in any mode except live Camera/16:9 screen capture (to create a 640x480 "DSC000xx.JPG")[but you CAN screen capture 16:9 playback] by connecting the USB cable and placing the camera in Memory mode. Indeed the files were located as "*:\DCIM\101MSDCF\DSC00xxx.JPG" (where 'x's indicate numerical digits.) When I then placed the mattes in that folder and danced jubilantly as the camera accessed each type of matte - Memory Chroma (key blue from matte), Memory Luma (key bright from matte), Camera Chroma (key blue from lens/sensor) and Overlay (cross fade from matte to lens/sensor). Next I determined that 2GB memory sticks work fine, I didn't have larger to test 4GB or 8GB.
I at once decided to keep only mattes in "*:\DCIM\101MSDCF\" directory/folder to avoid confusion later and have since found that to have been a wize choice. It's cleaner to add a new record folder in the field when changing location/client. Then the next folder will be named 102MSDCF, 103MSDCF, et cetera, and in each new folder the first capture file name is reset to dsc00001.jpg. I snap twin cameras simultaneously for 3D with the infra-red remote, and occasionally one of the cameras will misfire, skewing the file numbers - adding a new record folder to both re-syncs that - and having matching file#s line up in separate left and right folders on the computer screen is a huge assist in post.

=========== Creating Mattes =================
Earlier in the thread Rob Unck mentioned "Memory stick mask to 'trick' my system into capturing a letterbox or anamorphic image". Yes, and you could lay in transparent (keyed) or other color within the bars, for text such as web address, phone# to order now, or even legalese. I built two binocular masks, one for 4:3 and one for 16:9 and they both have a scale of pixels marked off in 5 and 10 increments along the lower right corner - the scale doesn't show in playback, it is apparently cropped visually by the studio video monitor, and it is distorted by MPEG compression on my Digital 8 stream but there is enough fuzzy/off-color blobs to pick up a pixel width/height measurement from a screen capture in the camera. This thread also reminded me that long ago I had forgotten that I wanted to create a 'binocular' matte/mask, so I did that in 4:3 as well as making one up anaphorically 'compressed' perfect circles for use in 16:9 capture, and both MUST BE 640x480 pixels! So below I include a specification range and a short "How to Build Mattes." But first let me explain this all holds true for the trv350 and this is a forum regarding the Sony VX2100 / PD170 / PDX10 Companion, but it seems that the previous posts in this thread indicate that these Memory Mix matte specifications and instruction are correct but may perhaps be a subset of the capabilities of other Sony cameras.

Baseline: image settings from screen capture
----------- Test 1 - Baseline ====== snapshot provided by camera ======
640x480 pixels
*:\DCIM\101MSDCF\DSC00xxx.JPG folder&filename
quality 0.85
smoothing 0.00
Restart markers: off
Optimize on
Progressive: off
Force baseline JPEG (Readable by all decoders): on
save EXIF data: off
Comments: [must be blank]
========= test 2 - Quality ============== With extensive notes included.
form factor: 640x480 only!
I have tried ranging the width from 600 to 700 pixels.
I have tried ranging the height from 450 to 500 pixels.
There is a black bar mask mentioned in this thread at 650x488, that'll never work for me.
ONLY 640 by 480 pixels can be read, now earlier in the thread someone mentioned that using a hexadecimal file editor application they were able to trim out a section of jpeg header code. That seems to me the width/height portion of the header, but I am probably wrong. If it is I would assume the camera to grab only 640 by 480 of the matte.

I save Sony Memory Mix matte/overlay/underlay images onto the memory stick only in the "*:\DCIM\101MSDCF\" directory/folder for my sanity in the field but first I save them in the \MemoryMix\ folder on my computer, file by file identically (which is not mirrored or briefcased!) Replication/duplication between the memory stick contents and my computer are always carried out manually to avoid loosing the great amount of time creating mattes by accidentally changing one and then propagating that error/omission to all copies. So I treat the computer folder as the source/master. Editing/creation is done in the \MemoryMix\work\ folder and files are saved in native app format (for me that's Gimp's .xcf) to preserve layers for later adjustment if needed. I commonly capture in 3D with a matched pair of trv350's mounted together on a simple "flash bar" in 640x480 4:3 and another hand-held trv350 in anamorphic 640x480 16:9 as hand-held, every camera is loaded with the same mattes for convenience, and arranging the file structure this way keeps that easily done. The camera is case insensitive, meaning it doesn't care if the filename is all caps or all lower-case or mixed, so I code the name as lowercase if the source is me and let the camera to PC connection (idiotic PC can't keep the name lowercase after transfer) indicate that all caps DSC0xxxx.JPG. You can have a dsc00000.jpg and mine is the b/w Indian test pattern (which I adapted from the original RCA art, owned by TV historian Chuck Pharis,) but it's title display on-screen is just that. Other title displays show as FFF-XXXX where FFF is the folder # and XXXX is the file number. The camera does not recognize file names DSC10000.jpg or higher, and when snapping a still at DSC09999.JPG it rolls over, and resets to DSC00001.JPG adding a new folder automatically. In the viewfinder properly recognized files display in the lower right corner as FFF-XXXX using a hypen separator, and images/mattes with problems display as FFF_XXXX using an underscore separator. Entirely unreadable images are skipped. When memory mix mode is selected, and a properly recognized preview image is in the frame, a photo snapshot can be taken that includes the preview image.

Quality (compression factor inverse) 85-100%
I work in sharp, pixel for pixel 100%, bitmaped style, 16Million colors (hex FFFFFF= 16,777,216 combinations = 16,777,214 colors + white(#FFFFFF all on) and black(#000000 all off) and blue mattes key best at #0000FF (0 red, 0 green, all blue) in Gimp, but have used photoshop for my first mattes. I want to work in sharp corners, hard on and off precision, later I can smooth by loading a copy and saving with a new filename and induce smoothing by reducing the quality and adjusting the smoothing. I save my templates at the larger file size at 100% quality, but the camera will read lower quality, and itself will save at 85% quality for sake of file size compression.

Smoothing: 0
There is another problem with the black bars (650x488) mask mentioned in above, the interface edge is neither blue (#0000ff) or black (#000000), it is blue/gray (#2f34ff) and that leaves a capture through the matte with a blue edged capture. As mentioned above, the camera records at 85% compression, which is more than plenty, so I keep a sharp mask and let later processes introduce noise, er... blend the matte smooth for me.

Restart Markers: 0?
I have had intermittent success/failure with restart markers, but the camera can always open a matte that has none. I haven't played with saving in a range, so I don't know why some images with restart markers read and others don't. I just leave it off for reliability.

Optimize: off
I forget if I played with this, I'm not worried about space on my 2GB MagicGate ProDuo. So I leave it off for quality concerns, not wanting the save process to alter my matte image. I don't recall if setting this to 'on' prevents reading the image or not.

Progressive: OFF!
This is sure to kill any ability of the camera to read the matte, just as sure as 641x481 pixels does. Leave it off.

Force Baseline JPEG: on
I tend to listen to the Gimp say (Readable by all decoders) and think that's probably a good thing here.

save EXIF data: off
I seem to recall having set this 'ON' that it's o.k. when unmodified, such as when immediately using a snapshot as a mask/overlay. But the image has problems loading when EXIF data's been modified, even by Sony's very own GPS-CS1KA Global Positioning Unit Kit. I just leave it off for reliability.

Thumbnail: NO! [leave check-box blank]
The camera can't handle thumbnail attachment in the image file.

Subsampling: 2x1,1x1,1x1 or 1x1,1x1,1x1
Doesn't seem to affect read/load, but affects quality again. I generally choose 1x1 subsampling for a larger size and least compression.


Comments: [must be blank]
having comments attached to the image keeps it from being read/loaded.
I have a feeling that the JPEG compression header is affected and that is the basis for most read/load failures. Add your comments/properties/et cetera, after you get the image back from the camera.

=============test 3 - Progressive===============
dsc00154.jpg
quality 1.0000
Restart markers: off
Optimize off
Progressive on - choice caused inability to load file in imager
Force baseline JPEG (Readable by all decoders): on
save EXIF data: off
Comments: [must be blank]
=============test 4 - Subsampling===============
dsc00154.jpg
quality 1.0000
Restart markers: off
Optimize off
Progressive off
Force baseline JPEG (Readable by all decoders): on
save EXIF data: off
Subsampling:1x1,1x1,1x1 (changing subsampling from 2x1,1x1,1x1 seems to not affect reading the file or loading it for matte use.)
Comments: [must be blank]

I have a website for the trv350 Sony Memory Mix mattes at Sony DCR-TRV350 Digital Handycam / DCR-TRV351 extra images! (http://trv350.angelfire.com/trv351.html) where you can download the b/w Test pattern Indian, color test pattern bar, black letterbox bars, binoculars matte, and a variety of frames and backgrounds. But the most up to date collection, to which you are welcome to discuss and to add your own creations is the flickr.com group at
Flickr: Memory Mix, insert Sony DSC TRV350 images! (http://www.flickr.com/groups/trv350/)

And an hilarious example of skyblue chroma replacement using the Camera Chrome setting to insert a background live in-camera is at
Mickey Mouse, Minnie Mouse and Wizard Flee the Giant Cat (http://www.flickr.com/photos/disneywizard/3033111843/) Better Mouse Trap