I hear a lot of people griping about the limitations of the GH1 and comparing it unfavorably to the Canon 5DMk2.

I think one of the problems is that the GH1 and the 5DMk2 are built for two entirely different markets.

The 5DMk2, arguably, gives a better, cleaner picture, and does so with more control over DOF. With the Magic Lantern firmware, it also has good, clean audio control. And it records at 1080p (nevermind the 30 vs. 24 argument right now.)

But it costs $4000, and has a 12 minute filming limit.

The GH1, however, gives a picture with twice the DOF. Way better than most consumer and prosumer cams, but when you compare the two - no contest.

But it can film up to 90 minutes - 180 minutes if you go with a 32GB SDHC card.

To me, the choice is obvious.

The 5DMk2 is a better choice for narrative and commercial work, where you have time to set up your shots, where you have full control over the situation. This is a cam for movies, as professional movie stock reels only come at about 10 minutes at a time.

The GH1, on the other hand, allows for 90 minutes of recording at a time - which is good for documentary filming and event/wedding filming, when you don't want to constantly interrupt the event happening in order to kill the scene.

Plus, it's much lower price point of $1500 means you can buy two GH1 cameras for the price of 1 5DMk2.

I think that we should treat the two cameras the way that you would treat 35mm film and 16mm film - 16mm film can create an "acceptable" image, but it's mostly relegated to indie movies and documentaries. 35mm is the format for "Hollywood."

Would I like a 5DMk2? Yes - in a perfect world, I'd get both, but in a perfect world, the 5DMk2 wouldn't have a 12 minute filming limit and would cost $3.99 +tax.

The 5DMk2 is a better choice for narrative and commercial work, where you have time to set up your shots, where you have full control over the situation. This is a cam for movies, as professional movie stock reels only come at about 10 minutes at a time.

The GH1, on the other hand, allows for 90 minutes of recording at a time - which is good for documentary filming and event/wedding filming, when you don't want to constantly interrupt the event happening in order to kill the scene.

Interesting points Brian. I'm going to disagree.

While I really enjoy the Canon 5Dmk2, for me (and many other professionals) the lack of 24p in the Canon makes it inclusion for narrative or commercial work extremely limiting. Also, a simple search on Google reveals what I expected- the 5Dmk2 is EXTREMELY popular for weddings, google Canon 5D II Wedding, you'll see... endless list of Photographers sites like this Blog Archive Canon EOS 5d mark II Wedding (http://yervantblog.com/?p=1206)

On the other hand, the GH1 has 23.98p and it has already been used for a feature film (http://www.finndependent.com/) and I know of 2x others in production now using the Lumix GH1 camera either in whole (A camera) or part (B camera). The camera also can use real cinema optics, which makes working with the camera a breeze for professional DPs and AC.

The ability to shoot longer than 10-minutes without a reload is a bonus for the GH1 and makes the camera more flexible, it does not define it or relegate the GH1 to event/photography. OTOH the frame rate of the Canon, regardless of recording time is not an issue for Wedding Videographers/photographers. The camera serves as a flexible multi-use tool for their kit. It makes perfect sense. Canon Wedding shooters who have not yet purchased a 5Dmk2, likely will. As they now have the ability to share their Canon auto-lenses already in their kit, it makes the 5Dmk2 a natural upgrade choice.

My prediction is, at this time next year, there will be many, many, more narrative and commercial projects utilizing a Lumix GH1, or other 4/3-sized sensor for production, and there will be countless Weddings shot with the 5Dmk2.

I.

Illya Friedman
Hot Rod Cameras
Hot Rod Cameras (http://www.hotrodcameras.com)

Illya:

What about the GHI blocking and codec issues ?

My prediction is, at this time next year, there will be many, many, more narrative and commercial projects utilizing a Lumix GH1, or other 4/3-sized sensor for production, and there will be countless Weddings shot with the 5Dmk2.

Actually I think this time next year there will be nearly 10 more brand new VDSLR options from Nikon, Canon, Red, etc. out there that both the GH1 and 5D will be quickly passed over for newer better technology at their respective price points. With the mistakes and missed opportunities of this first round of products it would be unbelievable for these companies not to make the right adjustments and produce the product that everyone is asking for. The 5D has enjoyed a pretty long run but I think the GH1 will barely be able to get its feet on the ground before new products sweep in and become the new best thing. It maybe even as early as August 4th and Nikon's rumored D300s announcement.

Illya:

What about the GHI blocking and codec issues ?

What about it (this is one in the same complaint)?

It would be great to have a better codec, but so far this is a non-issue in experienced hands. There's been some amateur shooters, especially early on, posting continuous whip pans and extended tight shots of side scrolling foliage, but this is hardly what is considered the norm for production.

There's some really good/really clean material being posted lately on Vimeo, I recommend taking a look.

I.

Illya Friedman
Hot Rod Cameras
Hot Rod Cameras (http://www.hotrodcameras.com)

Actually I think this time next year there will be nearly 10 more brand new VDSLR options from Nikon, Canon, Red, etc. out there that both the GH1 and 5D will be quickly passed over for newer better technology at their respective price points.

If that were true it would be good for everyone. However, I don't think it will happen that fast (I have no inside information, so I could be wrong).

I think that every DSLR manufacturer is going to be releasing an HDSLR in he next 12-14 months, but I haven't seen any signs that the 1st gen from all the "new" HDSLR manufacturers will be better than the GH1/5Dmk2, and following usual product timelines, I think it's unlikely we'll have true Canon/Panasonic 2nd gens before this time next year. I think it's possible there would be a revisions, but no true 2nd gens. So no big jumps in quality.

Regardless, I'm more and more impressed by the GH1 everyday. There's nothing that can touch the quality of this little camera (it is the smallest/lightest HDSLR) at this price. I just purchased my 2nd GH1.

I.

Illya Friedman
Hot Rod Cameras
Hot Rod Cameras (http://www.hotrodcameras.com)

I hear a lot of people griping about the limitations of the GH1 and comparing it unfavorably to the Canon 5DMk2.

I think one of the problems is that the GH1 and the 5DMk2 are built for two entirely different markets.

The 5DMk2, arguably, gives a better, cleaner picture, and does so with more control over DOF. With the Magic Lantern firmware, it also has good, clean audio control. And it records at 1080p (nevermind the 30 vs. 24 argument right now.)

But it costs $4000, and has a 12 minute filming limit.

The GH1, however, gives a picture with twice the DOF. Way better than most consumer and prosumer cams, but when you compare the two - no contest.

But it can film up to 90 minutes - 180 minutes if you go with a 32GB SDHC card.

To me, the choice is obvious.

The 5DMk2 is a better choice for narrative and commercial work, where you have time to set up your shots, where you have full control over the situation. This is a cam for movies, as professional movie stock reels only come at about 10 minutes at a time.

The GH1, on the other hand, allows for 90 minutes of recording at a time - which is good for documentary filming and event/wedding filming, when you don't want to constantly interrupt the event happening in order to kill the scene.

Plus, it's much lower price point of $1500 means you can buy two GH1 cameras for the price of 1 5DMk2.

I think that we should treat the two cameras the way that you would treat 35mm film and 16mm film - 16mm film can create an "acceptable" image, but it's mostly relegated to indie movies and documentaries. 35mm is the format for "Hollywood."

Would I like a 5DMk2? Yes - in a perfect world, I'd get both, but in a perfect world, the 5DMk2 wouldn't have a 12 minute filming limit and would cost $3.99 +tax.

The 5DMKII kit can currently be had for $2579 - includes basic tripod, cheap lenses, ally case, card reader, etc, etc, etc.
CANON EOS 5D MARK II &28-80 3 LENS 4GB HUGE KIT NEW USA - eBay (item 390063479877 end time Jul-31-09 14:24:19 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/CANON-EOS-5D-MARK-II-28-80-3-LENS-4GB-HUGE-KIT-NEW-USA_W0QQitemZ390063479877QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigital_Cameras?hash=item5ad1985c45&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A2123|293%3A1|294%3A50)

A GH1 kit can be had for $2100
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1 12.1 Megapixel lens kit Japan - eBay (item 180384706797 end time Jul-25-09 00:49:35 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GH1-12-1-Megapixel-lens-kit-Japan_W0QQitemZ180384706797QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigital_Cameras?hash=item29ffc430ed&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A2123|293%3A1|294%3A50)

So, the GH1 is a only little cheaper. I would suggest that once you price in the extra lighting you will need for the GH1, then the GH1 will probably work out to be more expensive.

The 5DMKII is also usually compared to the RED one, but I have not yet seen a GH1 vs RedOne comparison.

For some people, price was more important than image quality, and they may be satisfied with sticking with their mobile phones.

[QUOTE=Peter Burke;1173815]The 5DMKII kit can currently be had for $2579 - includes basic tripod, cheap lenses, ally case, card reader, etc, etc, etc.
CANON EOS 5D MARK II &28-80 3 LENS 4GB HUGE KIT NEW USA - eBay (item 390063479877 end time Jul-31-09 14:24:19 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/CANON-EOS-5D-MARK-II-28-80-3-LENS-4GB-HUGE-KIT-NEW-USA_W0QQitemZ390063479877QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigital_Cameras?hash=item5ad1985c45&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A2123|293%3A1|294%3A50)

A GH1 kit can be had for $2100
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1 12.1 Megapixel lens kit Japan - eBay (item 180384706797 end time Jul-25-09 00:49:35 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GH1-12-1-Megapixel-lens-kit-Japan_W0QQitemZ180384706797QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigital_Cameras?hash=item29ffc430ed&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A2123|293%3A1|294%3A50)

Unfortunately, the ebay link above is for an auction from Jersey Photo, a well-known bait and switch operation/grey market operation. Just google Jersey Photo and fumfie.com, or if you prefer, order the 5dMKII kit from them and find out for yourself. These kind of operations prey on people's hopes of finding a killer deal---ends up being a killer headache instead.

Agreed. Stick with B&H

bait-switch ? Thanks for the heads up.

The 5D2 body is however widely available for $2500. Then use your existing Canon or Nikon (+adapter) lenses. Cheap Cheap.

Illya:

What about the GHI blocking and codec issues ?
What about the Vertical banding and streaks can be found at all ISOs on the GH1?
Read this entire thread:
Low Light Streaks - Is my camera faulty? - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=174654)

So, the GH1 is a only little cheaper. I would suggest that once you price in the extra lighting you will need for the GH1, then the GH1 will probably work out to be more expensive.


You're delusional, Peter. The lenses in that Ebay listing are a joke. Getting the proper glass for the Canon and you're talking 4-5K easily.

It's ok to spin things your way. But give an accurate (and fair) assessment next time and folks might just pay attention.

For many of us, we don't need a Bentley when a Lexus will do just fine.

You're delusional, Peter. The lenses in that Ebay listing are a joke. Getting the proper glass for the Canon and you're talking 4-5K easily.

It's ok to spin things your way. But give an accurate (and fair) assessment next time and folks might just pay attention.

For many of us, we don't need a Bentley when a Lexus will do just fine.
This is not my opinion, but the gist from many GH1 owners on this thread
Low Light Streaks - Is my camera faulty? - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=174654)

It would appear that vertical streaking on all ISOs and other artifacts are causing a lot of angst amongst some GH1 owners and there seems to be a prevailing feeling that they have been deceived. There is even talk on this thread from GH1 owners of class action against Panasonic for knowingly selling a defective product. According to one poster, prior to release, Panasonic pledged to fix these vertical streaks, but didn't.

It is only fair to other potential GH1 users to alert them of this issue.

I cannot think of a clever car analogy right now, but perhaps the GH1 is a Lexus with crook suspension ?

This is not my opinion, but the gist from many GH1 owners on this thread
Low Light Streaks - Is my camera faulty? - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=174654)

It would appear that vertical streaking on all ISOs and other artifacts are causing a lot of angst amongst some GH1 owners and there seems to be a prevailing feeling that they have been deceived. There is even talk on this thread from GH1 owners of class action against Panasonic for knowingly selling a defective product. According to one poster, prior to release, Panasonic pledged to fix these vertical streaks, but didn't.

It is only fair to other potential GH1 users to alert them of this issue.

I cannot think of a clever car analogy right now, but perhaps the GH1 is a Lexus with crook suspension ?

Weirdly, they say that the vertical streaks go away after a few hours of shooting. I don't know why that is...

There's also this quote:

Have new information about the banding issue.

On my two Japanese cameras, one on factory settings, one I'd used on a shoot, they had radically different noise issues. I tested this by leaving ISO on Auto and putting the shutter speed ridiculously high in a day light lit room.

In shadow areas of the room, the GH1 I'd had with me since May had awful red banding and streaks of noise.

The factory settings GH1 was much better, displaying very little visible noise and the noise wasn't bright red.

At first I thought maybe the sensors were different, one being better than the other.

But after comparing the camera settings I found iContrast was enabled 'full' on one, whilst it was off on the other.

Enabling iContrast resulted in the same noisy streaking on the other camera.

It seems to boost the sensor ISO output in dark areas of the image in an attempt to bring out more dynamic range and detail in the shadows, but of course this also results in the noise and banding issues we have seen here.

So... if you are still concerned about banding, turn off Intelligent Contrast, at least in movie mode when shooting at high ISOs.

He may have been talking about "I.Exposure" (Intelligent Exposure) as I.Contrast is not available on the GH1 as an option. I think it's just nomenclature confusion.

That is problematic.

But CMOS is a bitch, no matter what camera you're using.

The GH1, on the other hand, allows for 90 minutes of recording at a time - which is good for documentary filming and event/wedding filming, when you don't want to constantly interrupt the event happening in order to kill the scene.

The only advantage the GH1 enjoys in this respect would be in situations where you need continuous recording without monitoring the camera. If you double-tap the record button on the 5D it will stop and re-start with less than a second break in recording. I think it would be a pretty rare subject you'd shoot where there wasn't at least one second you could lose every 10-12 minutes. For long runs you just need big cards, 32Gb will give you over 90 minutes of footage.

So for long recording jobs, you have to tap the thing before the 10 minute limitation expires, and do so repeatedly over and over?

That's adorable.

What about the Vertical banding and streaks can be found at all ISOs on the GH1?
Read this entire thread:
Low Light Streaks - Is my camera faulty? - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=174654)


Um....no....not everyone is experiencing this. Some people yeah....but not all.

Um....no....not everyone is experiencing this. Some people yeah....but not all.

As a brand new GH1 owner (as of 4pm yesterday) I can vouch for the scary streaking (even plaid! vert and hor in some cases). I'm currently letting it run a 'burn in period' (fresh battery and card and let r go for as long as it will go). To see if that does the trick like others have stated.

I'll report back when I'm through.... I'm praying that it goes away because I was testing the camera last night with a switar 26/1.1 and the low light results were really impressive (banding ignored). IF the banding 'burns off' I'll be one very happy camper. If not.... It will severely limit how I can use this camera!

I'm currently letting it run a 'burn in period' (fresh battery and card and let r go for as long as it will go). To see if that does the trick like others have stated.


Let us know the status.

Let us know the status.

It does seem to have improved after about 3 hours of solid use. It's not totally gone but harder to pick up on unless your watching for it under iso640. Still can be observed @ higher iso in scenes that lack detail. So it seems that giving it run time holds some water.

Banding mostly shows up in slight underexposed swaths in a scene (like dim lit walls). It seems to have a tough time handling this. If there is lots of detail in the scene it diminished greatly at higher iso (or possibly masks it well).

I'm feeling better... just need to stay conscious of it. 'workable' at this point.

Thanks for the scoop. If I get one, I'll probably let the thing run overnight.

=]

So for long recording jobs, you have to tap the thing before the 10 minute limitation expires, and do so repeatedly over and over?

That's adorable.

I tend to avoid projects that require long uninterrupted shots (they're as boring to shoot as they are to watch) so it really has little impact for me when shooting. For interviews I'm actually getting in the habit of tapping the button after every answer because it's nice to have each question in it's own clip and makes for a better workflow than when I used to let an interview run continuously on tape. Like I said, it's maybe a hassle for event videographers, but this clearly isn't the camera for that type of thing anyway so I don't see it as a big issue.

I tend to avoid projects that require long uninterrupted shots (they're as boring to shoot as they are to watch) so it really has little impact for me when shooting. For interviews I'm actually getting in the habit of tapping the button after every answer because it's nice to have each question in it's own clip and makes for a better workflow than when I used to let an interview run continuously on tape. Like I said, it's maybe a hassle for event videographers, but this clearly isn't the camera for that type of thing anyway so I don't see it as a big issue.

When I do interviews, sometimes the answer goes longer than 12 minutes, especially if it's a back-and-forth.

Also, it interrupts flow, something interesting could happen in that split second between question and answer, and I'd rather deal with one file per interviewee than multiple files per interviewee.

It does seem to have improved after about 3 hours of solid use. It's not totally gone but harder to pick up.

Any further update? Did it come back or go away some more?

Any further update? Did it come back or go away some more?

well I'm not totally sure if it's actually diminishing of if I'm just starting to understand how to best use the cam... ;-) The good news is that banding can be avoided...

I'm basically finding that underexposed areas can be trouble as you approach the iso640 range. So it's actually better to go to a higher iso and minimize the underexposed areas by slightly overexposing and beat the image back in post if needed. In general this will diminish the banding. It's a tricky cam in low light but the results when handled right are quite amazing.

Thanks Jay.