Hello everyone:

I've been reading posts on these boards for quite a while, so helpful. Thanks for everyone that has taken the time to lend their knowledge!

I've been researching for quite sometime and am close to taking the plunge with an audio kit. I was hoping to get some opinions and recommendations on the kit please?

I initially was going to try and budget for the Schoeps CMC641 but given the possibility to add the Cut-1 (I know some say not necessary) and that destroying the budget (eliminating the budget available to purchase wireless lavs), I decided to go with the Sennheiser MKH50 for indoor dialogue.

Sound Devices 302
Sennheiser MKH60
Sennheiser MKH50
Tascam HD-P2
Petrol Audio Bag (Eargonizer, large)
Rycote Windsheild Kit
Cables (breakaway, XLR, etc)
Gitzo 3650 Carbon Fiber Boompole - up 12'

Lavs - Tram50s (2)
Wireless - waiting for the Sennheiser G3 (September?)

Any thoughts or alternate recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!!

Regards,
Dan

Dan,

I'm sure others will chime in with alternate recommendations. Everybody has their favorites, but I think with the kit you have chosen, you can make some great audio. Congrats on stepping up and choosing gear that will last.

I prefer the K-Tek graphite boom pole, it is light and smoother with a internal coiled cord.

Also buy the Lectrosonics 100 series wireless system, you can use the Trams on the wireless system and with the TR-79 Power Supply you can plug into a xlr cord, now you will have a dual use mic. The Sennheiser is a good system but you will need to buy and wire seperate set of mics for it.

not all K-tek graphite poles have internal cabling. Mine, for example.

Regards,


Ty Ford

Dan,

I'm sure others will chime in with alternate recommendations. Everybody has their favorites, but I think with the kit you have chosen, you can make some great audio. Congrats on stepping up and choosing gear that will last.

Thanks Rob - I'm excited to get going!

I prefer the K-Tek graphite boom pole, it is light and smoother with a internal coiled cord.

Also buy the Lectrosonics 100 series wireless system, you can use the Trams on the wireless system and with the TR-79 Power Supply you can plug into a xlr cord, now you will have a dual use mic. The Sennheiser is a good system but you will need to buy and wire seperate set of mics for it.


Mark - Thanks for the response and feedback. It's looking like I have about $1800 or so to spend on lavs and wireless. I'm afraid Lectrosonics might be out of my price range.

I seemed to skimp most on the boompole (was initially thinking about a K-Tek carbon fiber pole, but that would've run another $400-$500) and the wireless (trying to get decent lavs and wireless but can't go for top of the line).

What kind of shoots are you shooting for? That makes all the difference.

What kind of shoots are you shooting for? That makes all the difference.

Some sit down interviews, doc's, and film/tv.

Thanks in advance for your feedback Karl.

Lectrosonics LMA Kit LEC105 Price: $1,114.00

Lectrosonics LMA Kit (http://www.turneraudio.com/lectrosonicslmakit.aspx)

Subtract the $300 for the wireless lav mic upgrade you will need with the Sennheiser units (unless you plan on using the poor performing one Sennheiser includes) and you are only a couple hundred dollars higher than the Sennheiser unit.

You might want to look at the Edirol R-44 that is sold with modifications by the Oade Brothers. Ordering for Oade Brothers Audio: Edirol R44 Super MOD- Ground Shipping (http://www.oade.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=OBA&Product_Code=EDR44SMGND&Category_Code=EDIR44-Super)

I have the stock R-44 and it performs well. The modified version is supposed to be a lot quieter. Had I known about it I probably would have sprung for the modifications.

A single 16-GB card can record up to 10 hours of 4-channel audio at 48 khz sample rate.

Lectrosonics LMA Kit LEC105 Price: $1,114.00

Lectrosonics LMA Kit (http://www.turneraudio.com/lectrosonicslmakit.aspx)

Subtract the $300 for the wireless lav mic upgrade you will need with the Sennheiser units (unless you plan on using the poor performing one Sennheiser includes) and you are only a couple hundred dollars higher than the Sennheiser unit.

Thank you Mark! The Lectrosonics kit includes the receiver and transmitter, wouldn't it still need a lav? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

You might want to look at the Edirol R-44 that is sold with modifications by the Oade Brothers. Ordering for Oade Brothers Audio: Edirol R44 Super MOD- Ground Shipping (http://www.oade.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=OBA&Product_Code=EDR44SMGND&Category_Code=EDIR44-Super)

I have the stock R-44 and it performs well. The modified version is supposed to be a lot quieter. Had I known about it I probably would have sprung for the modifications.

A single 16-GB card can record up to 10 hours of 4-channel audio at 48 khz sample rate.

Thanks for the heads-up Dean!

I have been struggling on the digital recorder. The Tascam's inability to house more than 8GB at a time makes me a bit hestiant. Do you have any experience in the sound quality between the R-44 and HD-P2?

I would most likely be going from the SD 302, sending line level to those recorders. Would the higher quality SD preamps eliminate the need to get a mod version from Oade?

You would use the Trams as a lav into the Lectrosonics then when you need to plug them into the XLR cord you use the adapter. I use the same set up, I carry 3 Trams and use them for my Lectrosonics and also when I use xlr mic cords as well. I bought all of my audio gear as new or used from various reputable ebay sellers and saved a ton of $$.

I have two block 25 Lectrosonics wireless sets, one butt plug, 3 Tram mics set up for the Lectrosonics and 2 XLR adapter transformers for using a mic cord instead of the wireless setup.

Here is a link for the transformer: http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=384&cat=45&page=1http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=1171459

8gb or 16gb don't make a difference. when in your life would you need to record 16 gb in one piece. Didn't happen to me yet. Your selections are generally solid though I would try to get second hand whatever possible and definitely step up to a lectro system, a 200 or a 400 series.
I'm sure you'd be able to save money replacing the MKH60 with a 416 (save even more with a 415T) - these are workhorses that work!

You say: Some sit down interviews, doc's, and film/tv.

Now that covers a lot and me thinks you're overstretching a bit especially with film/tv...for that you need substantially more equipment. Why not concentrate first on 'interviews' and 'doc's'.

For this you do not need (or even want) the full rycote basket. Save here and go for one of those furry's. The MKH50 is a great microphone - no question. But it's a bit on the expensive side when you're starting out. I'd say 2 wireless systems is minimum nowadays, that means 2 Lectros. Please forget the Sennheiser evolutions thingies if you want to work professionally. Again, especially when starting to build a package go 'second hand' - that's a no-brainer.
Replace the mkh50 with a (used) AKG 460/480 with a ck63 capsule. You'd get easily two of those for a mkh50. Buy your mkh50 after you'r having your basics covered. You're not there yet ;-)
More often than not production wants you to send audio wirelessly......that does mean in the very near future you're going to need 4 systems.....sad but true. Not thinking now about film work (that really is a different thing altogether) think of your recorder strictly as back-up recorder. Think of a) something small that you can schlepp around and b)just something so you can say 'yes' to a producer asking for one. That covers you. Again, good wireless systems are more important for you.

Thinking film you're going to need more than 2 tracks - if it makes sense or not, producers are going to ask for 4 or more. Plus you need to be able to deal with all timecode issues. Your Tascam HD-P2 is a fine machine alright but with some shortcomings. You'd need an additional TC generator for once + 2track limitation. For film work you'd need a smart slate plus something called experience which isn't there yet. Get that first, then move on/up. Then you get a Sound Devices machine and more microphones and more wireless systems and a bigger mixer and Comteks (lots) and video monitors (HD) and playback equipment and sound carts, a wireless boom w/ a wireless private line to your boom operator and boxes and boxes and a bigger car and a second garage to store all your stuff + you gotta find ways to get into the union too.

You would use the Trams as a lav into the Lectrosonics then when you need to plug them into the XLR cord you use the adapter. I use the same set up, I carry 3 Trams and use them for my Lectrosonics and also when I use xlr mic cords as well. I bought all of my audio gear as new or used from various reputable ebay sellers and saved a ton of $$.

I have two block 25 Lectrosonics wireless sets, one butt plug, 3 Tram mics set up for the Lectrosonics and 2 XLR adapter transformers for using a mic cord instead of the wireless setup.

Here is a link for the transformer: Tram TR-79 Power Supply - Lavalieres : TRAM - Microphones - Trew Audio (http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=384&cat=45&page=1http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=1171459)

Thanks for that Mark, much appreciated. The used route would definitely save money. Will do some more digging.

8gb or 16gb don't make a difference. when in your life would you need to record 16 gb in one piece. Didn't happen to me yet. Your selections are generally solid though I would try to get second hand whatever possible and definitely step up to a lectro system, a 200 or a 400 series.
I'm sure you'd be able to save money replacing the MKH60 with a 416 (save even more with a 415T) - these are workhorses that work!

You say: Some sit down interviews, doc's, and film/tv.

Now that covers a lot and me thinks you're overstretching a bit especially with film/tv...for that you need substantially more equipment. Why not concentrate first on 'interviews' and 'doc's'.

For this you do not need (or even want) the full rycote basket. Save here and go for one of those furry's. The MKH50 is a great microphone - no question. But it's a bit on the expensive side when you're starting out. I'd say 2 wireless systems is minimum nowadays, that means 2 Lectros. Please forget the Sennheiser evolutions thingies if you want to work professionally. Again, especially when starting to build a package go 'second hand' - that's a no-brainer.
Replace the mkh50 with a (used) AKG 460/480 with a ck63 capsule. You'd get easily two of those for a mkh50. Buy your mkh50 after you'r having your basics covered. You're not there yet ;-)
More often than not production wants you to send audio wirelessly......that does mean in the very near future you're going to need 4 systems.....sad but true. Not thinking now about film work (that really is a different thing altogether) think of your recorder strictly as back-up recorder. Think of a) something small that you can schlepp around and b)just something so you can say 'yes' to a producer asking for one. That covers you. Again, good wireless systems are more important for you.

Thinking film you're going to need more than 2 tracks - if it makes sense or not, producers are going to ask for 4 or more. Plus you need to be able to deal with all timecode issues. Your Tascam HD-P2 is a fine machine alright but with some shortcomings. You'd need an additional TC generator for once + 2track limitation. For film work you'd need a smart slate plus something called experience which isn't there yet. Get that first, then move on/up. Then you get a Sound Devices machine and more microphones and more wireless systems and a bigger mixer and Comteks (lots) and video monitors (HD) and playback equipment and sound carts, a wireless boom w/ a wireless private line to your boom operator and boxes and boxes and a bigger car and a second garage to store all your stuff + you gotta find ways to get into the union too.


Karl - thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience. A lot to ponder indeed, definitely the reason I wanted to post on the board. My original thinking with the mics was to purchase quality but your are right on with your point with the wireless. They are a must have and buying more expensive mics without having the budget to get quality wireless doesn't do me much good.

Mark mentioned the Lectro 100 series, you recommended the 200 or 400 series. Any specific reasoning on that? Admittedly, I've got to do my homework on the Lectros and wireless in general.

The kind of film/tv projects are definitely smaller than that may sound, although I wouldn't be opposed to the larger projects, that's a long way off. Trying to do my best to put together a solid package of gear (that I wouldn't feel the urge to upgrade too quickly) and learn as much as possible. Most of what I put together on the list is gear that I would have liked to have had on previous work. No need for a second garage (at least not for sound equip) but would be fun to think about filling it up.

Back to tinkering with the list... Thanks again!

Karl - thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience. A lot to ponder indeed, definitely the reason I wanted to post on the board. My original thinking with the mics was to purchase quality but your are right on with your point with the wireless. They are a must have and buying more expensive mics without having the budget to get quality wireless doesn't do me much good.

Mark mentioned the Lectro 100 series, you recommended the 200 or 400 series. Any specific reasoning on that? Admittedly, I've got to do my homework on the Lectros and wireless in general.

The kind of film/tv projects are definitely smaller than that may sound, although I wouldn't be opposed to the larger projects, that's a long way off. Trying to do my best to put together a solid package of gear (that I wouldn't feel the urge to upgrade too quickly) and learn as much as possible. Most of what I put together on the list is gear that I would have liked to have had on previous work. No need for a second garage (at least not for sound equip) but would be fun to think about filling it up.

Back to tinkering with the list... Thanks again!


Ok - did some digging on the Lectrosonics 100 and 200 series, seeing that 200 offers diversity. Everything I've read points to Lectrosonics as very reliable and solid, although saw that the 100 is more comparable to the Senn systems (at a much higher price).

Question I have...has there been any feedback on the upcoming Sennheiser G3 wireless system? I've read good and bad regarding the G2, some saying that's probably the first rung of the pro ladder, others relying on it. Maybe the G3 will be another step up and worth for the release date in September before going for a more expensive product?

I'm leaning toward the Tram50 or Countryman B6 lavs either way. Starting to lean a bit more toward the B6 for the ability to hide them. Would there be additional costs involved to allow for compatibility to the Senn G2/G3 systems?

Before upgrading to the Lectrosonics I used Sennheiser G2 units. The mics supplied with them were just ok, and I ended up buying better mics for the Sennheisers. Also the Lectrosonic 100 series is 50mw vs the Sennheisers 35mw power.


I also have a Countryman B6 in my kit, excellent sound and water proof. It works well for hiding but I find it gets lost under clothing. The Trams come with a complete mounting setup kit and I prefer it for mounting to the talents shirt or coat.

The higher end Lectrosonics are deep pocket cash units, you will see them on any big budget movie set.

The B6 is good to have but almost a specialty mic. Start with Trams, they're quick and easy to mount. They're not really great, but they became a standard somehow and do their job.

Generally: you want to work professionally you use professional tools, voila.

Before upgrading to the Lectrosonics I used Sennheiser G2 units. The mics supplied with them were just ok, and I ended up buying better mics for the Sennheisers. Also the Lectrosonic 100 series is 50mw vs the Sennheisers 35mw power.


I also have a Countryman B6 in my kit, excellent sound and water proof. It works well for hiding but I find it gets lost under clothing. The Trams come with a complete mounting setup kit and I prefer it for mounting to the talents shirt or coat.

The higher end Lectrosonics are deep pocket cash units, you will see them on any big budget movie set.

I'd definitely like to go with the Lectrosonics at some point and will try and do some testing locally if possible. Have you heard anything on the G3's compared to the G2? Doesn't look like any has their hands on it yet (saw that Sweetwater is saying they'll have them by 8/2).

Regarding the specific lav, do you have a personal recommendation for a lav mic that sounds well when hidden? Sanken COS-11x's? I'd like to have a pair that could go either way (never the perfect solution I know) and still maintain quality sound.

The B6 is good to have but almost a specialty mic. Start with Trams, they're quick and easy to mount. They're not really great, but they became a standard somehow and do their job.

Generally: you want to work professionally you use professional tools, voila.

Thanks Karl. What do you think the next step up sound quality wise would be from the Trams? Any particular feedback on hiding them?

The AT 899 is a nice sounding mic, comes with a variety of mounts and a few bucks less than a Tram, though not as popular. IMO, it seems to hold up better than Trams'... cable gets pulled out of head and beyond repair.
I have not seen the new smaller AT-__ Lav, designed to compete with B6 I guess.

The AT 899 is a nice sounding mic, comes with a variety of mounts and a few bucks less than a Tram, though not as popular. IMO, it seems to hold up better than Trams'... cable gets pulled out of head and beyond repair.
I have not seen the new smaller AT-__ Lav, designed to compete with B6 I guess.

Thanks Rick! I hadn't considered the AT's.

I think I'm heading back to Dan Brockett's fine lav article this evening to do some more reading and listening. Seems like a daily mental back and forth with me.

All lavs have deficiencies as far as I know. The TRAM is a standard because as I said it's quick and easy to mount - that's actually important - and it's a know quantity (quality) used pretty much everywhere. So you'll fit in. I have a few B6 and they really come in handy when there's no place to hide (Malibu beach movies i.e. not kidding) but they're a bit fragile and they don't like wind at all. As I said, specialty items if nothing else works. Sankens are fine and DPA's are fine - there's the AKG ck77 I think is awsome and so on. But really you shouldn't worry, go with the trams - other stuff comes later.

All lavs have deficiencies as far as I know. The TRAM is a standard because as I said it's quick and easy to mount - that's actually important - and it's a know quantity (quality) used pretty much everywhere. So you'll fit in. I have a few B6 and they really come in handy when there's no place to hide (Malibu beach movies i.e. not kidding) but they're a bit fragile and they don't like wind at all. As I said, specialty items if nothing else works. Sankens are fine and DPA's are fine - there's the AKG ck77 I think is awsome and so on. But really you shouldn't worry, got with the trams - other stuff comes later.

Thanks Karl, points taken. Much appreciated!