Although I haven't got serious – yet, about video work, historically I tend to buy something a little better than what I need right now. If its worth doing....etc. So anyway, I'd like to get at least something that will do a smooth pan with the above setup ie, Canon MKII and the 24-70mm lens. Not the lightest combination I know. I'm not much concerned about having to transport it so I'm not looking for the lightest choice. I guess at a pinch I will spend up to $800 if the product is compelling. Having given the above scenario, I will also use the 50mm lens a fair bit. Maybe even 80% of the time but I don't want to caught out if I use the other setup. Don't mind getting secondhand either. Coming from photographic background I have two regular sets of sticks. Thanks.

That particular lens isn't all that demanding. On the wide end, you can get away with a shoulder rig. At 70mm, you'll want reasonable stability. I also run a 200mm lens, and at that point the rig needs to be rock solid.

For that lens, I'd look for a tripod with

* a 75mm leveling ball
* fluid drag for tilt and pan
* the vertical range you need
* two tubes per leg section for less wind up is nice, but might not be needed for such light weight
* An adjustable spring that lets you balance about 4 lbs.

Hi Peter

Never used it myself with a DSLR, but a cameraman we know has used the Vinten Vision 3 with a #1 spring with his Canon DSLR. Take a look and judge for yourself.

Burial Site - Canon 5DmkII Short Film on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/5352858)

All the best.

Peter

I also run a 200mm lens, and at that point the rig needs to be rock solid.
* a 75mm leveling ball
* fluid drag for tilt and pan
* the vertical range you need
* two tubes per leg section for less wind up is nice, but might not be needed for such light weight
* An adjustable spring that lets you balance about 4 lbs.

Thanks Jon. I've been considering the Libec LS38. It came through a reasonably gruelling review process. What do you think?

the Vinten Vision 3 with a #1 spring with his Canon DSLR.

Burial Site - Canon 5DmkII Short Film on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/5352858)

All the best.

Peter

Thanks Peter. I like that unit. Just a little more than I wanted to pay. For sure it would do the job for me. But I will have to continue shopping for software and a few other items. The difference between that and the Libec will go towards other things. Cheers, Peter.

Thanks Jon. I've been considering the Libec LS38. It came through a reasonably gruelling review process. What do you think?

I haven't used it, but I know that Dan Chung recommends it for the 5D Mark II.

Peter, sounds like we have the same exact equipment and situation as far as what we're shooting and where we are with the equipment. Glad to have found your post.

I was considering this for a beginners rig? Too much? Overkill?
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h106/sebmour_2006/_MG_1838.jpg

Its made up of the following...

1. Manfrotto by Bogen Imaging | 503HDV,351MVB2K | 503HDV,351MVB2K (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=workaround.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=496825&is=REG) - $650
2. Red Rock microFollowFocus v2 Indie Bundle (http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl;jsessionid=0a010b441f4395dfa832a26c4f3bbc02802550be5d86.e3iKaNePch4Re34Pa38Ta38Pahr0?c=472981&it=A&id=405) - $675
3. IndiFocus Rods indiRAILSpro 18 (http://www.indifocus.com/products_indirailspro.htm) - $150

Or would I be better off with the Libec LS-38M(2A) for the same price as the Mafrotto stuff? And drop the follow focus stuff for now?
Libec | LS-38M(2A) Professional Tripod System | LS-38M(2A) | B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/458997-REG/Libec_LS_38M_2A__LS_38M_2A_Professional_Tripod_System.html)

Chris, I think (for myself at least) that a Follow Focus unit is pretty much essential. Whether that chews up too much cash for you I don't know. Secondly a good tripod will be important. I wouldn't want the look spoiled by dodgy panning and movements. I'm agonising a bit over the rails setup and can't seem to get the combination I want. You've got more chance of getting all this stuff I guess if you are single and don't have to negotiate with 'another party'.
In the end if you get good stuff and find that its not working out for you it can still be sold though that's not ideal.

I still have a couple of unanswered question re: the shoulder mount setup. Just wish I was onsite to get hands on feel for them instead of looking at photos all the time.

Just make sure your Indirails setup allows for proper viewing when Hoodman or similar is attached. Otherwise, I don't hink that setup is overkill. Good luck. Peter.

BTW I got the impression that some Manfrotto gear is not quite up to it. You might search for a few relevant posts on this board relating to the model you're after. I'm not that familiar with the variations.

Chris, I think (for myself at least) that a Follow Focus unit is pretty much essential. Whether that chews up too much cash for you I don't know. Secondly a good tripod will be important. I wouldn't want the look spoiled by dodgy panning and movements. I'm agonising a bit over the rails setup and can't seem to get the combination I want. You've got more chance of getting all this stuff I guess if you are single and don't have to negotiate with 'another party'.
In the end if you get good stuff and find that its not working out for you it can still be sold though that's not ideal.

I still have a couple of unanswered question re: the shoulder mount setup. Just wish I was onsite to get hands on feel for them instead of looking at photos all the time.

Just make sure your Indirails setup allows for proper viewing when Hoodman or similar is attached. Otherwise, I don't hink that setup is overkill. Good luck. Peter.

BTW I got the impression that some Manfrotto gear is not quite up to it. You might search for a few relevant posts on this board relating to the model you're after. I'm not that familiar with the variations.

Yeah I get that feeling from this board about the Manfrotto stuff too, but I take into factor that this is a "video" site and these folks are PICKY with their video equipment, me being new might not see as much of the details and discrepencies as they would see in the video using manfrotto vs. some $$ brand, I've found some people talking about some higher up brands that are in the same price range as what I have here, so I will investigate further.

The thing one needs to remember is that a tripod and fluid head are chosen based on the level of quality you want to achieve. It almost doesn't matter what camera you attach. The steadiness of the lock down shot, smoothness of pan, lack of movement from wind and handling of camera controls, and the dampening of vibration are all directly attributable to the tripod and fluid head. None of these qualities are those of the camera yet they are all qualities of the image in the end.

So stop thinking about cost of tripod vs cost of camera because it is not applicable. It is all about the level of quality you want to achieve in the final product and deciding if shake and jerky pans are what you want in your video. If not, you have to spend the same amount of money no matter what the camera, except for consideration of weight of the camera. Even then, there is a lower limit on the price of a tripod system that will work well even with a 3/4 lb. camcorder. The tripod is part of the image, not a minimal player in just holding the camera above the ground.

In the past a Manfrotto 503 head was OK for SD footage. HD footage shows errant movement much more, so what was adequate in the past isn't quite so anymore.

So forget ever trying to find a cheaper tripod system cheaper than $1400 USD or so to do HD properly, DSLR, palmcorder, or whatever else. It isn't going to happen.

This advice can probably save you money in the long run. First you will buy the $400 system and not be quite happy at all. So you go out and get the next best thinking all it needs is a bit better. Another $700 down the tube as you keep having to fight with jerky pans and wobbly legs. So you go out and spend another $700 on a better head, but the legs still let you down and the head is hard to balance because of only one or two counterbalance settings. So you have spent $1800 and you still don't have what you want. It would have been better to just spend the $1400 + to get the right system that everyone who has been through this keep trying to tell you.

That's what these forums are for. Getting advice from people who know and are willing to share the information. If your budget doesn't allow for the right equipment then you should expect poorer results than you want. Ignoring the advice given will always cost you more in the long run.

Oh yes, my advice is free, so it is worth every penny you have spent on it. But if everyine is saying the same thing, there must be a good reason!

BTW, I am aiming this at everyone who asks the same question about what tripod for THIS camera, not just the OP.

Yes agreed Les. It deserves sticky post status. That's why I was willing to go secondhand and not buy new stuff for even less. Anyway, point noted. We can all get back to work now and start saving!

I agree with you Les, I'm all about buying quality once vs. starting lower quality and rebuying and wasting all that time and money on the way to eventual quality. 100% agree with you.

But, for me, I'm also so new to DSLRs and Video that I don't even know what I'm doing yet, so a top of the line rig, while beneficial, might not be the best first step for me. This is for my case only I'm talking about. I think a $650 -$800 set of legs and fluid head should be good to start with don't you?

I think a $650 -$800 set of legs and fluid head should be good to start with don't you?

I agree only if you are willing to learn the lessons mentioned or you are willing to compromise the quality of your video. I dare say that the 5D MKII needs as good a tripod as any "real" video camera. Based on the quality of image that it is capable of delivering I would even go as far as to say that systems in the bottom range of $1400 are not going to be good enough as it will need a real tripod system just like a real HD video camera.

A Manfrotto 503 is NOT good enough, period. I know, I have one from my SD camera. Like I said, the price of the camera is not an appropriate criteria in deciding on a tripod system rather the quality of the image is.

Now if you don't want to spend what is needed to get the quality of output you want, then at least go in knowing that and live with the problems an inadequate tripod system will cause.

You know Les, the more of your posts I read, the more I get a spooky sensation that by some nefarious means I've been cloned, else have a long lost twin brother still living in Ontario (where I was born!).

You really have just about made my posts utterly irrelevant, as all they'd be is carbon copies of yours!

In case I've left any doubt, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said, and then some.

Keep it coming.


CS


PS: Considerably longer discourse on the subject when I have more time.

Ok, I understand what you are saying and have noted that the quality of some of this stuff is not up to par for you and your video trained eyes. Noted. Understood.

But the Manfrotto 503HDV/501HDV/701HDV were designed for someone in mind weren't they? Who are these folks?
I'm not trying to produce Hollywood quality type videos. Right now I'm trying to learn the camera, I'm not a video school up and coming, I'm not trying to make indi film festival type feature films. Right now at least. I'm just a guy who wants to make some creative type videos of my family, friends, and other things I find fun to shoot. Nothing serious. The HD quality video the 5DMKII can do is great, but I'm not sure I can find the same "issues" you or someone like you with trained eyes can see...I want to do creative stuff, and maybe one day get to something a bit more serious looking but right now I'm just not there at all, so with that in mind, what is the rig you would suggest someone like me look at...legs, fluid head, follow focus etc...?

Know where you're coming from and can understand your predicament.

Just wish I had a clue about the ergonomics of the camera in question and it's suitability for "video" as a main weapon.

OK, let's keep it simple.

As the learning curve with this camera is going to be waaay steep based on your start point, may I suggest you buy, second hand, a cheap Manfrotto rig, nothing spectacular, but at least rated (by Manfrotto) for video.

There's enough of this stuff hitting the SH market now that it should cost pretty close to peanuts.

Trawl the "for sale" forum here and of course, e - bay.

See how you go with it.

In very short order you will find it either "ok", in which case stick with it till you are comfortable with upgrading (if felt necessary), OR a complete waste of space/ time, at which point, hopefully, you will have a better idea just how far you want to persue this camera and HD down the line.

Personally, the more I hear about this camera, the more I believe it's best use is as a "flyer", tho' that opens yet another huge can of worms and another learning curve you may not want to try climbing.

Hey, you have to start somewhere. Start cheap, learn the lessons and the limits of your equipment, patience and dedication, THEN decide if you want to throw some serious money at it.

Don't think I can say fairer than that.

Make any sense?


CS

Yep, all of it but this part...


Personally, the more I hear about this camera, the more I believe it's best use is as a "flyer", tho' that opens yet another huge can of worms and another learning curve you may not want to try climbing.
CS

What does best use is as a "flyer" mean?

And not throwing serious money at it, is what I was asking about earlier in the thread; the rig I posted was pretty inexpensive.

"Flyer" = Steadycam etc.

Serious money = real serious money ($1k plus) because you want to throw serious money at it.

I was coming back to update that last post to add this:

Without a benchmark of what performance is or is not acceptable, you have no way of knowing to what level you want to aspire or stop at.

Throwing a few hundred bucks on a S/H rig isn't serious by any definition, but it will, at least, tell you where you might want to go.

At the end of the day, Christopher, you won't know, till you know.

Everybody here has an opinion.

The only opinion that is important to your situation, is yours.

Start cheap and see what happens.

Then, if what you have doesn't do what you want, bear in mind what's been said here, rattle that piggy bank and work out how much you want to spend, and try again.

There is not a soul on DVinfo who can say, definately, you will be happy with product X, Y or Z, unless you spend megabucks, it's as simple as that.

Everything else is a compromise - till you've been there, done that, well, you don't know what compromise you're prepared to make.


CS

I agree with you CS, totally. Thanks for your inputs as well as the rest who have given advice and opinions, I appreciate it all.

I think I'm going to start off with my already invested Gitzo set of lets (GT3541LS) and add a fluid head to it, not sure which one yet...might add a leveling base to my legs as well, to help with this fluid head. I'll see if I can get the "quality" video I am looking for out of that setup. So I might just add a nice Fluid Video Head like a Libec H38?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/459140-REG/Libec_H38_H38_Professional_Fluid_Head.html

I will also be shopping some kind of affordable "flyer" or steadycam, since I really like the shots those rigs can get. If I progress in my art to a point where I need and want to spend more on the better head and legs, I'll cross that bridge when I get there...

So to ask for some advice on fluid video heads; I've already considered Manfrotto 501/501/701 HDV series, and gotten feedback, what other brands/models should I look at that I could get the head for say under or around $700?

This to me is "doable"...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/601879-REG/Sachtler_0372_0372_FSB_4_Aluminum_Tripod.html

And I'd be willing to save a bit more for this one...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/601884-REG/Sachtler_0375_0375_FSB_4_Carbon_Fiber.html

Would these be a step in the right direction? But for someone who's never even owned a camcorder before, would these be a bit much?

I'd also like to add this Libec setup to the discussion, its reasonably priced...
Libec | LS-22 Aluminum Tripod System | LS-22 | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/328516-REG/Libec_LS_22_LS_22_Aluminum_Tripod_System.html)

Anyone care to comment on these 3 for someone who is basically a "home video" camera man?

Ok I guess no one wants to comment on the 3 listed tripod rigs as an alternative to my original Manfrotto/Bogen rig?

The two Sachtlers are both very good - and are more adjustable than the Libecs both in terms of drag and counterbalance.

LS38 - no adjustable drag, no adustable counterbalance
LS22 - no adjustable drag, limited adjustable counterbalance

The difference between the two Sachtlers you list is the legs. My personal opinion is to go for the cheaper alloy one, unless you need ultra-fast set-up (a few seconds longer on the normal tripod compared to the Speedlock) and slight extra stability (maybe better for long lens wildlife).

The carbon fiber one isn't any lighter in my experience. Buy the $50-ish Sachtler shoulder strap for the tripod too, it makes it easier to carry around.

I'm a "home video cameraman" too - and in your position I would be disappointed by the Libecs (I've owned LS22 and the predecessor to the LS-38), I'd hate the Bogen/Manfrotto (I owned a badged Vinten version of the 503HDV) and very happy with the $800 Sachtler. I'd only go for the $1200 Sachtler if I was really, really looking to spoil myself.


Edit: just noticed you are looking for the head only - my comments still stand regarding the models mentioned. I'm not sure how easy it is to get the Sachtler heads separately though, and you need to be sure that any of the 75mm bowl heads are actually compatible with the Gitzo legs you have.

Thanks Mike, I'm considering the "head only" as well as legs and head. So your advice and information/feedback is helpful, I'm hearing lots of good things on the Sachtler stuff.

I might spoil myself one day! ;-)

Based on my readings in the Support section of this Forum and experience I've had with the Manfrotto/bogen system. I'm probably just going to byte the bullet and go with a Sachtler System (see below)

Sachtler | 0375 FSB-4 Carbon Fiber Tripod System | 0375 | B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/601884-REG/Sachtler_0375_0375_FSB_4_Carbon_Fiber.html)

It's not cheap but I think it will work for most cases with my Canon 5DMkII and my 5lb. Pro HD camcorder as well. So you have two situations taken care of for the price of one.

Sachtler, without question. The only possible issue is if you want, say, an FSB-4 head, but would prefer it on Gitzo CF legs (with a bowl) for a simpler set-up that will go lower to the ground.

Les Nagy, Chris Soucy and others saved me from creeping my way up the tripod/head ladder. A belated thanks.

Photo tripods/heads are one thing, SD video tripods/heads another. HD video tripods/heads require a quantum leap in requirements.

One of the main considerations for my type of shooting is the ability to shoot high and low angle shots on varying terrain. I don't have a studio, or have even shot in a studio.

I needed a flexible, sturdy tripod with no spreader and no wind-up. The Gitzo GT3541XLS with a bowl adapter worked for me. I do not see a future need for another tripod.

At this point my funds were running a little too far into the negative, To get by I am using a Gitzo G2380 and a Gitzo G2180 on my tripod and one on my Glidetrack.
They are smooth, but lacking proper counterbalance.

My next purchase will be either a Sachtler FSB-6, FSB-8 or the Vinten Vision 3AS.