What is the best site for uploading HD video?

I just used Vimeo for the first time today to upload some airshow footage I shot last Saturday, and I'm not too happy with the way it plays. The picture quality is acceptable, for what I need to use this for, but the frame rate seems stuttery. Any sugestions for a better online service or other tips for better results? I think I followed all the instructions Vimeo provides.

2009 Rhode Island Air Show Highlights on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/5425091)

Frame rate seems fine to me. I don't see any stuttering. Am on a 4meg ADSL connection. In my opinion the HD video in the paid-for VimeoPlus service gives slightly better quality. This is a quantitative rather than qualitative judgement!

Looks fine to me, Try YouTube as well, their new HD version is pretty good.

BTW Nicely done on the filming, looks great

I was impressed with youtube's hd video, if I go full screen on my 24" monitor it looks really good. I don't think youtube is alone in delivering good quality video - just haven't used the others yet. But since they're free try 'em out...

Here a quick little video I shot the other day on my ex3:

YouTube - LA PALOMA, Tango by Cumberland Winds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1o7XSZvGtk&fmt=22)

don't forget to play it back full screen

Looks good here too on Verizon Fios hookup - a couple minor stutters but nothing you would complain about - HD quality on the internet didn't exist not too long ago.
Nice shots - I see a lot of my tax dollars flying around and burning out the exhaust pipe though. Fuzzier vision might be better.

I just captured some of your video using WebVideoCap.exe , and when I played back the video I had captured it said "video frame rate 30fps", "playing at 30fps" but still saw slight hesitations as if the re-encode was dropping frames a bit like changing from PAL to NTSC, I've noticed some of the older videos I've put on Vimeo are the same and have a hesitancy but the latest have been better, I've just started using Youtube and am very impressed with the HD quality.
Bryan

Thanks for the advice and comments. I have Verizon FIOS, too, but the video still hesitates more than it should even when I'm watching it after it is had fully downloaded on my MacBook Pro. Kevin's Cumberland Winds plays jerky, too, in places. Further testing this afternoon shows that things look a lot better on my MacPro tower, so maybe it is my MacBook. Gonna have to give it a checkup.

I assumed anything with the YouTube brand name on it would be inferior quality, so thanks for the advice on that. I'll take another look. Creating video for the web is not something I know a lot about, and it is time I got up to speed.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5h9-zjRHG8
www.vimeo.com/3904297
These are two I tried from the same bit of filming I think the Youtube is just as good as the Vimeo and what I like about Youtube it gives you a choice of the photo it will display and you get far more hits although the Youtube videos I have downloaded are shorter so it could be people only like less than 1 min videos and soon get board.
Bryan

Hi Doug,

You should check out Exposure Room-video plays back much smoother and transcodes from quicktime much nicer than Vimeo (I think Vimeo also converts everything to 24fps, your favorite framerate). Vimeo seems to receive more traffic than Exposure Room, though.

You can also reorder your videos on your Exposure Room page which you can't do on Vimeo. Youtube is nice quality but seems to lag in HD mode-but one nice feature is that video will play back on iPhones as well.

Cheers,
Gerry

digitalkilnstudios.com

Vimeo now uses 30fps H.264 for NTSC video (25fps for PAL, 24fps if you shoot at that rate).
They changed from 24fps VP6 about a month or so ago.

Doug, I think Windows Media Player HD might be a good way to go when uploading HD footage, even on Vimeo.

H.264 is the most efficient highest quality codec around these days. It's better than Windows Media. Hunt around for many of Jan Ozer's codec tests on StreamingMedia. Even MICROSOFT Silverlight 3 (in beta) supports H.264 now.

YouTube, Vimeo, ExposureRoom all now use H.264 up to 30fps for Flash at 720p size. They don't all use the same encoding method or data rate though. In addition they seem to be prone to different server side issues. You might try uploading the exact same file to each and view.

I tend to encode at 720p29.97 at 5000kbps. They seem to re-encode to about 1500-2500kbps. YouTube video shows peaks up to 4000kbps but that might cause stutters and freezes from some depending on their internet connection and the computer's cache and decode ability.

I was impressed with youtube's hd video, if I go full screen on my 24" monitor it looks really good. I don't think youtube is alone in delivering good quality video - just haven't used the others yet. But since they're free try 'em out...

Here a quick little video I shot the other day on my ex3:

YouTube - LA PALOMA, Tango by Cumberland Winds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1o7XSZvGtk&fmt=22)

don't forget to play it back full screen

Kevin, this looks great, very sharp, and the compression is hardly evident at all.

What format/codec did you compress to for posting this? H.264 per Craig's info?

I find Doug's Vimeo and Kevin's Youtube, both excellent. Pray tell gents, the codecs etc you used to upload. A nice simple upload workflow for dummies would be a gift.

I went right from the EX video in FCP to Compressor's default H.264 setting. Everything's at 1080p - 24fps. Then up to YouTube.

Best Qualtiy all sizes - Exposure Room - professional networking... low views
Best Public Viewing - Youtube.com - great hd, crummy standard.

Best encoding - DVkitchen to minimize file size / maximize quality

Vimeo - nice networking with hobbiest. Crappy 'nature' sound... ok hd video.
Revver - no HD... snuck in horrible 30 sec "weeds" video ads without telling us... before they had ad words from google after video... stay away!!

I find Doug's Vimeo and Kevin's Youtube, both excellent. Pray tell gents, the codecs etc you used to upload. A nice simple upload workflow for dummies would be a gift.

There's nothing really special to tell, but here's more detail that you might want.

For reasons I won't go into here, I shot the air show with a combination of 1080/30P, 720/30P, and 720/24P settings. Most slo-mo clips were done at 720/24P 60fps.

I used the Picture Profile settings that I describe in my DVD and books, an O'connor 1030B head, and my Fujinon HSs 18x5.5 lens -- but no lens filters. Normally when I shoot outside I use a polarizer and a 1/2 grad .6 ND, but in this type of fast-paced shooting, and where I am shooting at all angles to the sun, there is not time to mess around with adjusting filters. Althougth, it would have been nice to darken the sky and really make the clouds pop with the polarizer.

I shot about 2 hours of footage over the course of the day from just one location. I was there with my family, and technically wasn't supposed to be "working" so I never moved around. 2 hours seems like a lot of footage, but the slo-mo clips were recording at 2.5x. As always, I deleted any bad shots on the fly, so I never had to deal with them in post. I've neve been more happy NOT to be shooting on tape.

Created an archive copy of all my BPAV folers with Clip Browser, then created MOV versions with XDCAM Transfer -- while using the subclips function to trim off a lot of the heads and tails and other stuff I knew I'd never need for editing. This step also gave me a chance to review the clips and jot down some notes about them.

I then imported the MOV files into an FCP bin and edited with 720/30P sequence settings. I boosted the saturation a little bit with the 3-way color corrector filter but that was the only filtering applied.

Exported as a full-rez QT movie clip, and then down-converted a copy to H.264 using the settings that Vimeo recommends.

Best Qualtiy all sizes - Exposure Room - professional networking... low views
Best Public Viewing - Youtube.com - great hd, crummy standard.

Best encoding - DVkitchen to minimize file size / maximize quality

Vimeo - nice networking with hobbiest. Crappy 'nature' sound... ok hd video.
Revver - no HD... snuck in horrible 30 sec "weeds" video ads without telling us... before they had ad words from google after video... stay away!!

Greg,
Good information to have. I'll check out Exposure Room when I get home from my trip.

Doug, how important do you classify your 18x lens? The one that comes with the EX-3 is not bad, but I am guessing that your Fujinon cost as much as the EX-3 package that included the lens.

Many experts I have heard say that the glass is extremely important in HD video photography, and is overlooked by many.

For what it's worth, video hosting is in the works for DV Info Net. We're setting up what we think are some very attractive features and of course it will be free for DV Info Net members. It'll be a pretty big announcement when it's ready to launch.

Doug, thanks for that airshow shoot info. Like to take this opportunity to also thank you for your dvd. Having shot for over 25 years I was new to non tape and the ex3 and had a shoot three days after it arrived. Used my "vortex media" pp and your advice together with a dm shoulder brace and a tiffen steadystick. Five hours and no fatigue. I couldn't believe how at home I felt with the camera. The viewfinder is the greatest gift to these tired old eyes. Only quirk is the peaking knob which goes from nothing to a flood of blue. Cheers for the support!

This looks interesting. Unfortunately not much in the way of details but it seems to be based on Amazon S3 "cloud" encoding and serving, pay as you go service. Apparently the cost is file size based and without bandwidth or other data rate, frame size, view limits.

FLV Mate -- put ad-free streaming videos on your web-site, powered by Amazon S3 (http://www.flvmate.com/)

For what it's worth, video hosting is in the works for DV Info Net. We're setting up what we think are some very attractive features and of course it will be free for DV Info Net members. It'll be a pretty big announcement when it's ready to launch.

This will be a wonderful addition to this forum.

It will make it so much easier to share information.

I guess I will have to wait for intro to get your codec specs.

I would love it if there you would publish some .flv or .mov presets that could be used without re-encoding by you.

Thanks!

What is the best site for uploading HD video?

I just used Vimeo for the first time today to upload some airshow footage I shot last Saturday, and I'm not too happy with the way it plays. The picture quality is acceptable, for what I need to use this for, but the frame rate seems stuttery. Any sugestions for a better online service or other tips for better results? I think I followed all the instructions Vimeo provides.

2009 Rhode Island Air Show Highlights on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/5425091)

Very nice video Doug.
The planes against the clouds are very nice.
Would love to see the whole F22 rolloer.
Bob

Thanks, Kevin. The look is pristine.

Best by far, sort out an Amazon S3 account and do your own encoding. Low res previews for your S3 based video can be YouTube etc.

I would love it if there you would publish some .flv or .mov presets that could be used without re-encoding by you.We'll seek some input about this, but we'll definitely have an option to do a direct upload without any re-encoding.

Exported as a full-rez QT movie clip, and then down-converted a copy to H.264 using the settings that Vimeo recommends.

I just upgraded to the Vimeo Plus account. You get to load up to 5 gigs a week of HD, and they do it immediately. The quality looks better than standard, too.

I just put this on there last night 2009 Salida Fireworks Show on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/5466079)

I shot it on the EX3 as a test. After having some issues with rolling shutter from flash photographers, I thought the fireworks would come out butt ugly, but as you can see they came out very nice... no trace of rolling shutter. BTW: I used the PP you recommend in your Vortex training DVD, 1/60th, no ND, -3db gain, with the UV filter that's always on.

The battle of the fireworks shows.

I don't have Plus (yet) so I had to compress this down to 2100kbps (rather than my preferred 5000kbps) and it still looks great on Vimeo in HD

2009 Macy's NYC Fireworks on the Hudson
NYC 4th of July Macy's Fireworks on the Hudson River on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/5463996)

ExposureRoom has not such limit so I did encode to 5000kbps and upload and I seem to see more encoding artifacts in the "tough" areas such sky and water and smoke even though my source was over twice the data rate of my upload to Vimeo
NYC July 4 2009 Fireworks on the Hudson River By Craig Seeman On ExposureRoom (http://exposureroom.com/nycfireworks)

I truly expected ExposureRoom to be better. As some people expressed that Exposure looked better I'm curious to hear your thoughts.


I just upgraded to the Vimeo Plus account. You get to load up to 5 gigs a week of HD, and they do it immediately. The quality looks better than standard, too.

I just put this on there last night 2009 Salida Fireworks Show on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/5466079)

I shot it on the EX3 as a test. After having some issues with rolling shutter from flash photographers, I thought the fireworks would come out butt ugly, but as you can see they came out very nice... no trace of rolling shutter. BTW: I used the PP you recommend in your Vortex training DVD, 1/60th, no ND, -3db gain, with the UV filter that's always on.

The battle of the fireworks shows. .

No battle here. The display I posted was a test of the EX3, which with yours should give reassurance to those who worry about rolling shutter and fireworks. I didn't see any in either sample.

Our little display is put on by a volunteer fire department in a Rocky Mountain town (elevation 8,000') of 5,000 people.

The one you shot in NYC is very impressive... probably cost more than our entire county's annual budget.

Yours is much less cluttered. I kept having to reframe because of major height differential between lowest and highest explosions. I know some fireworks aficionados would prefer clean (no buildings in background).

I posted my settings on Vimeo, You should too. It'll help folks looking to shoot fireworks.
Yours look very good on Vimeo. I wonder if you could also post on ExposureRoom. That might give us a double comparison for upload sites.

It is possible to "shot for compression" and while Cinegamma 4 with -3db gain looks great for fireworks I'm wondering if the stretched blacks of CG4 opens the door to the artifacts that are more apparent on ExposureRoom. Who know if either Vimeo or ExposureRoom are doing preprocessing on encodes. That can have an impact on picking the "best site."

That's why I'd like to know your settings and see an ExposureRoom comparison.

No battle here. The display I posted was a test of the EX3, which with yours should give reassurance to those who worry about rolling shutter and fireworks. I didn't see any in either sample.

Our little display is put on by a volunteer fire department in a Rocky Mountain town (elevation 8,000') of 5,000 people.

The one you shot in NYC is very impressive... probably cost more than our entire county's annual budget.

My settings are whatever the ones are in Doug Jensen's recommended Picture Profile... with 1/60th shutter, -3db gain, no ND, 1080p 30fps, 56k WB, iris at 1.9. I rendered to mpg4 in Sony Vegas and to h264 in Compressor, via FCS. I forget which I posted, but they were both identical. I do recall I had to render to 29.97 fps, rather than leaving it at 30fps, because I got some pixelation when I didn't (I know... you'd think it would be the other way around).

So my camera settings are similar to yours. I encoded to H.264 at 2100kbps for Vimeo and 5000kbps for ExposureRoom.

If you can upload yours to Exposure that would be a good comparison since we shot with similar camera settings but it does seem that Vimeo's HD encode is better than ExposureRoom's IMHO.

Yea your guys stuff always looks so clean and sharp on vimeo and youtube and so forth. Mine will have more artifacts and be twice the filesize..LOL

Amazes and disgusts me all at once, we have the same friggen camera!. :)

This is from a sony hc-5 with the camera mic, edited with final cut, no deinterlace.
Theres a frame drop in the middle of the clip, don't drop when camera is connect to tv,
but drop when logging in computer
my file(quicktime h264 was 1.95 gig) the upload took 8 hours(on wifi)
I never use compressor but export using quicktime conversion at 1280x720

Since a few weeks youtube let you upload 2 gig files but not more than 10 minutes.

P.s: when you upload big files on youtube, disable the progress bar.

YouTube - jp soars:gangster of love with cigar box guitar! festival jazz montreal. blues en HD fijm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMyhGp2lDeM&hd=1)