Nothing to do with filming using the 5DMK2, just thought I would tell you what I've been up to with the 5DMK2.

I was playing with a bit of telecine with some super 8mm footage recorded from a screen using the 5DMK2 at 1/50 (UK) thanks to the manual mode, to eliminate the lighting flicker from the 100w bulb. And although it did a fairly good job I though about using a lower 20 watt bulb and projecting the image directly into the 5DMK2 (without lens) straight onto the CMOS chip.

I changed the lens on the projector from the standard version on the Eumig 610D to the better 1,2 lens from my Eumig Mark DL, also allow greater control on frame throw size.

The 5DMK2 has to be positioned square on about 2 inches from the lens (depending on what crop you want), its then just a matter of focusing the projector lens onto the CMOS chip, with the ability of x10 zoom preview on the 5DMK2 you can focus on the front or back of the film.

The 12v 20w bulb was just for testing and plan on using a dimmable luxeon star led for better control. Any shutter speed above 1/50(UK) causes flicker. There will alway be a slight flicker due to the 3 blades in the projector. You could use 4x4 ND filters hung in front of the 5DMK2 to control brightness or a pair of sunglasses as I tried.

The results so far are amazing, the detail resolved from 8 & Super 8mm footage is fantastic. A real option for quick telecine over frame scanning.

You have to do a bit of post work like rotating the 180˚ but thats not a problem.

I will post some final results when the luxeon arrives.

You're running the Eumig at 18fps, James? To remove the flicker with a three-bladed projector shutter you'll need to project at 16.67 fps and speed it up in post. Same goes for 24 fps sound stripe film.

Of course 18 film frames will be spread over 25 video frames, so a lot of them will be combination frames on the final film. You could try stopping down the f/1.2 lens with a waterhouse stop - this should give you better flat-field coverage of the 8 mm film, as well as evening up the exposure corner to corner.

tom.

Hi Tom, Thanks for the info. I'll give the 'Waterhouse stop' a try, would I have to get the drilled aperture within the 2 lenses?.

Not sure how to get the Eumig down to 16.67fps. I know some people have used a 5 blade shutter in the Eumig, also the 5DMk2 only records at 30fps. But it's early day for me on this one. Thanks, James

I'd try something like a matt black cardboard disc pushed carefully up against the f/1.2's front element - you have lots of spare light so that loss isn't important.

Your Eumig is probably electronically speed controlled at 18 and 24 fps, but I'm pretty sure there'll be an 'end of line' pot on the speed control PCB somewhere inside the machine.

Hi Tom, Ok tried the disc aperture, it works well, even a crude pencil hole in a piece of card sharpens up the corners. It's easy to sandwich in from of the first element as the main lens assembly unscrews from the housing, a rebate inside the housing allows the card to sit tight.

The speed control on the eumig is all mechanical so no pentometer adjustments.

Us Canon EOS owners are absolutely whacko, we think this camera can do anything....!!!

I would love to see some converted footage, as I have tons of 8mm stuff to mess with.

There's certainly a lot less enthusiasm for its 30 fps this side of the water.

Here is a quick grab of projected verses direct cmos capture.
10w bulb used instead of the 100w. Trying with dimmable luxeon Star led tomorrow.
Just trying to minimize the edge softness. The projected WB is out but you get the idea.

The 6mm aperture used was made using a copper 2 pence, sprayed matt black (sorry Queen)

Also, I have focused on the front of the film, should have been the emulsion, hence more scratches.

Here is another frame from a different reel. (Full resolution frame exported from quicktime)

What's interesting is that your projected image is sharper into the corners than the direct to 5D frame Also the dof of the latter means you're capturing the scratches on the substrate, and you really need a very shallow dof so that only the emulsion is sharply focused. Maybe make the hole in the washer larger. And use something very thin for this aperture so that you get as little flare as possible from the edges.

Unless the projector's gate is allowing the film to curl (which I doubt) it looks as if the fast projection lens doesn't have a very flat field. The design intent was (in 1973) to put as much light onto the centre of the screen as possible, and pretty much all else was side-stepped to get this result.

I use a Schneider Xenovaron f/1.1 zoom in my Elmo GS1200. It has a wonderfully flat field and is noticeably better than Elmo's f/1.0.

Can uoi use a macro lens on the 5D to photograph the frame directly in the projector's gate and bypass the projection lens? There are some fascinating pages here on building your own machine out of an old Eumig projector:

Construction of a home made Telecine machine (http://www.movie2video.com/)

tom.

Hi Tom, thanks for the link. Sounds like another project, the wife will be pleased. I will investigate direct recording from the gate. Extension tubes here we come!!

But at the end of the day I would be happy to watch the family movies even at this stage. They have a nice organic feel.

3 min test footage, with current setup.
Super 8mm - Test with the 5D MK2 on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/5428255)

Very nice indeed. I am going to have to get the projector out now....maybe add tubes and ND and shoot at the gate.......

Wow, great thinking James!
This is very interesting to me. I have 8mm footage I need to digitize at high rez for a doc project.
One more reason to buy the Mk. II.
Please keep us posted on further development of your technique.

James - though it's beautifully sharp in the middle circle, outside of that the image quality falls off dramatically, so sommat's up. If you look through the 5D's v/finder you should see the same situation, so I suspect the projection lens rather than bowed film in the gate.

The wonderful Kodachrome isn't great seeing the grains. Yes the sharpness does drift off, I'll have do do some calculations on a lens and find a more suitable alternative.

I do still like the idea of projecting onto the sensor so will find something that works.

Been playing with projector with the LED light. If I get the led to pulse at: 1/ matched frame to the speed of the film 18fps or 2/ 30fps to match the camera I could take away the projectors shutters. I'd have to put in a brushless motor and an optical sensor for a trigger. With 555 chips it should be possible.

This is great info. I have several Super 8 cameras as well as 16mm cameras that I plan on dusting off soon.

Quick question, you're projecting the film right onto the sensor right? So the camera has no lens? Do you put the camera in mirror lock up mode?

If it's not in mirror lockup mode, all the light goes into the pentaprism.

Years ago I used my Canon EF (lensless, but not in mirror lockup mode of course) to copy frames of Super-8 onto Ektachrome 64 film. The Super 8 was held in a mask in my enlarger's gate, and my Canon was upside down. The tiny Super-8 frame was projected into the EF's mirror box, and the resulting 35 mm slides were far easier to print.

My very high quality 50 mm Nikon enlarging lens had a beautifully flat field and very even coverage, unlike most Super-8 projection lenses.

tom.

Good thinking James. I have just got the GH1 and was going to give it a try on some telecine when I've got used to the camera and settings.
The best diy telecines I've seen have been done with a macro lens, like a few others have pointed out earlier. The thing that would concern me most about your first method of going straight to the sensor, is muck getting inside the camera. Projecting old film, no matter how clean you are, usually kicks up some dirt and debris, so having the naked camera that close to it all might cause some damage?
I would have expected the rolling shutter skew to be worse than it was in your transfer, apart from the soft edges it looked very nice indeed.

Just come across this thread. From my old days of cine I remember the trick of getting 16 and two thirds speed on all the Mark M/DL etc and 7 and 8 series Eumig projectors. Take the back off the machine and set metal flag at 60hz. This will allow the speed slider to move across the drive disc a little more, so by lowering the speed control you will get the speed. Run without film but with lamp on and get rid of flicker. When film is loaded you may need to nudge up slightly to allow for film drive lag.

I'm very excited about the possibilities of this working out well!!!!

I didn't realize how wide super 8 is...

That's almost 16x9!

The Super-8 frame is 5.47 x 4.1 mm, so exactly 4:3. Of course you could mask the gate or shoot through an anamorphic, but it was still essentially 4:3.

News update (March 2011): In case anyone stumbles across this thread.

This is my method for transferring 8mm footage using the Canon 5Dmk2 in real time. The results are very good for such a fast method if you cannot afford the money or time for frame scanning.

The Projector - 8mm Direct to 5Dmk2

The Projector - 8mm Direct to 5Dmk2 on Vimeo

Description (as Vimeo)

00:42 - It very important to use a flat type LED's not the dome shaped ones. The dome shape LED's will give you lots of blooming and the focus will drift at the edges making you suspect the lens.

00:58 - I drilled 3 holes in the body of the projector for the LED flexible light strip, behind where the original bulb used to sit. I mask out light I don't want projected with putty. The position of the lights helps mask out some of the scratches. I need to add another couple of (horizontal) lights either side of the centre light.

01:29 - I modified the original projector lens to try and achieve a flat field image. Made from the rear element from a Carl Zeiss Flektogon 35mm and attached to the original lens tube with a bit a tape no less. You could use standard lens and there are some very nice ones out there.

03:08 - Utilising the body from the old 35mm lens, it proved a good way in shielding the projector from light pollution, I also added a 12mm extension tube. A lens cloth draped over the front further seals the light from entering, of course you could just film in very low light.

00:12 - I put 2 drive belts on the motor, this slowed the motor down just enough to reduce the shutter flicker. The Canon 5Dmk2 was set to 24p and 1/50 for our electrical phase.

ISO ranged from base up to 1000, depending on exposure of original film. The footage is fine at ISO 1000 but this could be reduced by using a more powerful flat lens LED.

03:30 - Focus and frame size changed by moving the projector or camera and adjusting the screw type lens. Try and focus on the film grain and not the scratches.

00:37 - I removed the internal mask for 8mm & S8mm aspects at the gate to project an unrestricted image into the camera. You gain areas that are hidden but they have the perfs though them and you see the top and bottom of the next and previous frame, but you can re-mask in post. If it's personal footage you want to see everything on the frame, some times it makes the difference.

You can use the crop sensor DSLR's but the lens would need changing or modifying unless you wanted a cropped image. On this lens and projector I can not bring the camera near enough without fouling on the body of the camera or projector body to get a full image captured.

I have tried to make this project as accessible as possible and apart from the camera, all the items are fairly cheap to pick up.

Projector used: Eumig Mark 501, I also use the Eumig 610D & the Eumig Mark DL
Camera: Canon 5Dmk2

Ref LED: maplin.co.uk/​dc-12-v-flexible-led-light-strip-400mm-47376

Here are links to a couple of films transferred using this exact setup:
vimeo.com/​20900718
vimeo.com/​20871186

Thanks, James