Hello all,

I recently had a gig where I was shooting, and needed to get feed from the board for sound. The sound guy nor the dj had a cable that could run back to my cam. So I had to go out and purchase a cable myself, which cost over $100. I think it's good for me to have this just for these types of situations, but currently it just doesn't feel right for me to come out of pocket. After all, the cost of the cable was almost half of what I got paid for the gig.

Anyhow, my question is this. Should I eat the cost of the cable? Isn't it the Sound Engineers responsibility to have the needed accessories? I don't believe it is my responsibility to have this cable if I was requested for video coverage only, and sound was a different hire. Should the client pay for the cable? That's what I think. What are your thoughts?

The catch: The reason this is a little sticky is because initially I thought the cable would run about $50, but I got the cheapest one they had. Before purchasing, I told the client "I'm have to go get a cable so we can get sound." And they just said "ok." That's where I made my mistake. Anyhow.....

As you accepted and are getting paid, you should have all the right tools necessary to do the job properly.

Don't lay the cable cost on the client, you won't see him again and those things get around.
100 bucks for a cable doesn't sound right either.

Cheers.

....
I recently had a gig where I was shooting, and needed to get feed from the board for sound. (Neither) The sound guy nor the dj had a cable that could run back to my cam. So I had to go out and purchase a cable myself, which cost over $100. .....

When you say "sound guy" are you talking about someone hired to run the PA and venue sound or are you talking about someone hired specifically to handle production sound-for-video working with you on the video program? If they were hired for venue sound and PA, your sound issues for the video aren't their concern and if you're planning to tie in to the board for your tracks, researching in advance and in detail what equipment was needed and bringing all the necessary hardware to the shoot, including cables, would be your responsibility. You're both the cinematography and sound departments rolled into one and would be expected to provide both kits in their entirety. If however the "sound guy" was hired as a member of the video crew to handle production sound, working along with you on sound as you handled camera, insuring he has the gear he needs such as appropriate field mixer, recorders, mics, boom, sufficient wireless units, cables, etc would usually be his responsibility (and he would usually be charging the client for gear rental in addition to his fee, of course).

Can you return the cable and get a 'more affordable' one? I would eat the cost, either way. You'll be making use of this cable (I assume) on future shoots and it should have been in your inventory whenever you consider recording audio from a mixing board. $100 is pretty high for an XLR cable. Was it a "Monster Cable" by any chance?

Hello all,

I recently had a gig where I was shooting, and needed to get feed from the board for sound. The sound guy nor the dj had a cable that could run back to my cam. So I had to go out and purchase a cable myself, which cost over $100. I think it's good for me to have this just for these types of situations, but currently it just doesn't feel right for me to come out of pocket. After all, the cost of the cable was almost half of what I got paid for the gig.

Anyhow, my question is this. Should I eat the cost of the cable? Isn't it the Sound Engineers responsibility to have the needed accessories? I don't believe it is my responsibility to have this cable if I was requested for video coverage only, and sound was a different hire. Should the client pay for the cable? That's what I think. What are your thoughts?

The catch: The reason this is a little sticky is because initially I thought the cable would run about $50, but I got the cheapest one they had. Before purchasing, I told the client "I'm have to go get a cable so we can get sound." And they just said "ok." That's where I made my mistake. Anyhow.....



John,

Hard as it is to hear, this isn't "sticky" at all. And sorry, but you're dead wrong on almost all counts.

The ONLY person ultimately responsible for getting the video and audio onto your tape is YOU. And unless you want to base your entire practice on the "kindness of strangers" you need to secure and maintain ALL the equipment necessary to do your job each and every time you go out.

The house sound guys (and/or gals) have NO obligation to provide you with anything unless you have an agreement with the promotor or person paying for the gig which specifically provides that you're to be provided with a sound drop. And even then, all you can expect is a cable with an XLR connection where you need it. YOU are responsible to take whatever that signal might be - balanced or unbalanced - line level or mic level - and adapt it to your particular audio recording needs.

That's the protocol in the professional video and audio recording world.

Yes, a LOT of house sound folks will be glad to ask what you'd prefer and work with you to help. But they are not REQUIRED to do this. Their job is to make the house sound - sound good to the house. If it also sounds good for you, fine - if it doesn't that's NOT their problem.

I'll even go a step farther, if the house sound guy hits a routing switch and KILLS your feed from the FOH board (yes, it's happened to me - more than once) It's STILL your fault for not having a secondary feed in place.

When I do public speaking gigs, my standard was a dedicated wireless feed from the performer - a secondary tap into house sound - and a backup to the backup - which was typically a fail-safe dynamic mic on a tall stand up near a ceiling speaker "just in case."

My theory was that if a battery died in the wireless. And the FOH person hit the wrong switch, I'd use the mic-stand to get SOMETHING useable onto my tape.

And in years of practice my mic-stand fail safe SAVED MY BUTT at least twice - keeping me from having to refund all the money to a client.

You're taking someone's money to record video and audio. So it's your responsibility to do precisely that. No excuses.

They just said "OK" to your getting the cable because it was, in fact, YOUR responsibility to do so. Period.

FWIW.

You and you alone are responsible for having the gear you need to do what you were hired to do. If you don't have the gear, you either rent/buy it, or don't take the gig.

Frankly no good deed goes unpunished. Your client should not be able to pay so little that any expense like an xlr cable is going to be half your fee. As for long cables or special cables you have to warn the Sound Guy if he works for you or make arrangements to supply the cable yourself. You would have been lucky if the house sound had the cable but they didn't. Clients often don't realize how much goes into a simple request so you have to decide how important it is to you to keep them happy or not. Certainly you can bring it up in discussion but it is usually a difficult discussion.

You didn't get paid much but that's a different matter.

If you're serious, you should own at least 1 xlr cable. Sounds like you got a high end pro line of XLR which are expensive. I recently got the least expensive name brand "Audio Technica" XLR 10' for $16 + 6 shipping = $25 from B&H.

The sound booth usually will run their xlr out to me, but I always bring my own because in this line of work you can never assume anything. Many times the booth is run by someone who has no audio knowledge who is there just to flip switches. Even if its manned by someone who knows they usually don't want to do it. It doesn't seem like a big request but I'm not an audio engineer so I try not to judge.

Bottom line, if you can avoid a feed from the booth it will make your job easier. The levels almost always line and too hot for your camera or the levels can change between mic and line. You'll end up having to sort through later on. Avoid it if you can.

Out of curiosity, how long was the cable? I was guessing it to be 100 feet. They sell for anywhere from $25 (Nady?) to over a hundred, depending on the name, the type of wire/insulation, and the connectors.

You say you were hired for video, not audio, if I read your first post correctly, so I suppose there was no need for any cable since sound recording was not necessary (except to record as a reference for later synching sound from the audio recordist), so I suppose it wasn't necessary to buy the cable.

However, as life would have it, it seems we are required to pay for our education. If one learns on the job (in this case that it's necessary to have a supply of audio cables in the trunk), it is still necessary to pay sometimes, and in this case, for the price of tuition, you get to keep the cable.

The other option would be to pay a film school several thousand dollars and have them tell you need to have some cables in the trunk. You would still have to buy them, but you could shop around for a good price, and you could be selective, getting the type of wire that will work best for you in the long run.

I'm with the masses on this one. For all the jobs I have I assume I have to bring everything necessary to get video and audio. That means I have all cables necessary if I can get a feed from the board. If not I carry several mics, a mixer, A/D converter, Laptop with audio programs, etc.

BTW, if you had to just go out and get an XLR cable for $100 if the cable was 50 or 100ft that's not bad. Quality cables suitable for use on the road are expensive for a number of reasons. There are budget cables out htere but if you're going to be using them a lot on location pay the extra for quality cables.

Just my take.
Garrett

whew you guys give some tough love!

I'll try to touch all the points here:
Cable: LiveWire 100' XLR

First off, I understand those that say it is my responsibility to have the cable. I should just be more clear in the beginning what will be required for the [good] production. And then make the necessary adjustments in my price (it was a 4hr shoot). The best thing to do would have been to have a meeting with all involved in the production prior to the event. But what if the Sound Engineer didn't have an available output on his mixer, would it still have been my responsibility to capture good sound? Key word is GOOD. Sure I could use a shotgun, or mic a monitor...that's a great fail safe as Bill mentioned, but this shouldn't be the main source for audio. Would I be expected to purchase/rent a mixer to bring to events? I think not. Well, actually...I may eat my words. This is something else that should be discussed prior to the event, and cost adjustments made accordingly. Ok, I see your point guys. But without the issue being discussed prior to the event, I still believe the situation to be considered "sticky." The problem wasn't getting audio to tape, but getting GOOD audio to tape.

Jack, I really like your point about "paying for education." This was definitely a learning experience that will carry on to future gigs (and also a cable that will be carried on to future gigs)! To be more clear, I was hired to produce a DVD (included in price). No editing besides intro and outro, but when "creating a DVD" it should be assumed that you need optimum sound quality...so this is why I deemed the cable a necessity.

All your points are valid but I thought I would have at least one person on my side ; ). I am going to eat the cost of the cable. But I will still bring it up in the next meeting just so the fact is known.

JS

Sorry John but I'm with the rest of the pack.
I take a lot of my own kit to every event. More than once I've loaned my own mics to sound guys who've run out. Oh sure it mightn't be my responsibility but then again it's not the responsibility of the FOH manager to move a few patrons seats around so I can get a camera in a better position either. I guess I've effectively been out of pocket on a few of these jobs but the goodwill I've put in the bank is priceless.

You asked what if the desk doesn't have a spare line out. All I can say is if that's a scenario you can envisage consider getting a couple of isolated line splitters to put in the kit bag. You might be amazed at what I lug around just to be sure, to be sure.

whew you guys give some tough love!
All your points are valid but I thought I would have at least one person on my side ; ).

JS

I am somewhat on your side, allthough I think you handled it wrong.
Like you said the cable was almost the half of you pay for the gig.
So may I assume that for an 4 hour shoot and then decoding the entire shoot to dvd with minimal editing and burning the DVD you got 250?
May I also assume that you are shooting on tape?
If so, this sounds like a 10 hour job.
If you are getting paid 25 dollar per hour including equipment the client can't expect good audio imho.

You asked what if the desk doesn't have a spare line out. All I can say is if that's a scenario you can envisage consider getting a couple of isolated line splitters to put in the kit bag. You might be amazed at what I lug around just to be sure, to be sure.

Point well taken. Will this still give me stereo output though?

Boudewijn, I don't want to disclose the actual pay for the job. It wasn't much, which means they can't expect much...but it's what I quoted them. So yes that pretty much puts the blame on me. This is a client I plan on working with on an ongoing basis, so this is more of a "package price." I guess this is where a contract comes in handy.

JS

Hi John,

$100 for a 100ft Live Wire is a little expensive but unfortunately you had to pay a premium because you had to have it right then and couldn't shop around.

To answer your question about if you'd be responsible to purchase/rent a mixer and other needed equipment if the sound engineer didn't have a spare out for you to use. That depends on what your client is expecting. And that's where good upfront communication is key.

That's why I have the minimal audio equipment I have. I've was hired to do a live performance for a local dance school. After meeting with the event coordinators and the venue staff. I discovered that they would not be able to give me a board feed. So I discussed it with the owners of the school and we came to an agreement that I would receive a small additional budget for renting the equipment necessary to capture good sound. I decided to use the budget to start building up my audio gear. The budget didn't cover the total cost but it did help. Now for every job I scope the location, talk to the venue techs or sound man so I can plan out the audio side of the shoot.

As I've gone a long I've continued to build my audio equipment as well as video. Also, having at least a minimal audio kit allows you to have backup sound going which is something I always do. Sound guys seem to always have some minor or major problems occur during every show.

My advice would be to start with a basic kit and slowing build up to a point where you can be confident that you won't get caught short. My basic live show kit would include:

mics (2)
mic stands (don't forget these)
cables (2 x 100' XLR to XLR cables, 2 x 100' XLR to 1/4" cables for board feed to your cam)
gaffers tape

At a minimum that would get you decent sound in a pinch.

What I currently bring with me to shows to acquire audio:

5 mics (in case no board feed is available, but I always set up at least two mics)
5 mic stands,
a total of 700ft of audio cables (Includes XLR to XLR and 1/4" to take a feed from the board)
8 channel mixer
10 channel A/D firewire box
Laptop with sound acquisition software
portable digital recorder (Sony PCM-D50)
100' AC extension cord
Power strip
gaffers tape (always tape down cables for safety and to make all your expensive audio gear doesn't take tumble)
Sand bags (usually 10)
Headphones

Note that my kit for interview and movie shoots is a little different. And yes, I am a redundancy nut. It's always fun to see peoples faces when I wheel in 3 large boxes of extra equipment in addition to cameras, tripods, and lights.

That's why gearheads love video, there's always some other piece of equipment that they "need". :)

The other answer to your question is:

Is it your responsibility to have all the audio taps and mics and cables needed to cover every possible scenario?

Nope. Not at all. Thats the responsibility of the sound guy that you hired and included his fee in your original budget estimate!

Kinda snarky, but also true. Every video guy should find and make friends with a soundie. Often you can lure them into your back yard with traps baited with pizza and beer. You have to be *really really* quiet though.

Garrett, what is this "10 channel A/D firewire box?" I couldn't find any info on it. I suppose by the time I need one, I will know what it is.

Is it your responsibility to have all the audio taps and mics and cables needed to cover every possible scenario?

Nope. Not at all. Thats the responsibility of the sound guy that you hired...

That's the thing...I didn't do the hiring. Another great reason why a general meeting would have been beneficial. See, I told you it was sticky!

JS

P.S. Garrett could you PM me your souce for cables?

I should also mention that this is the LiveWire Advantage series. But yeah, I had no choice either way.

Garrett, what is this "10 channel A/D firewire box?" I couldn't find any info on it. I suppose by the time I need one, I will know what it is.



That's the thing...I didn't do the hiring. Another great reason why a general meeting would have been beneficial. See, I told you it was sticky!

JS

P.S. Garrett could you PM me your souce for cables?

You didn't say whether the "sound guy" that was hired was brought onboard as a sound person specifically for the video production or was hired to run front-of-house sound for the show. It makes all the difference in the world as to how the responsibilities for what would be divided up.

By the way, a board feed per se does not guarantee good sound. A FOH mix is designed to sound right to the audience but will not necessarily optimum for recording. For example, it's not unusual for a drumkit not even to be mic'ed at all. It carries well to the audience without amplification but in your recording you will be depending on its bleed into the stage mics which may not sound very good at all.

If I could speak for Garrett, a "10 channel firewire" would be an audio interface with 10 inputs, allowing you to record up to 10 separate tracks at once on a laptop (with appropriate recording software, of course).

Trew Audio, B&H PHoto, Full Compass, Location Sound, Coffey Sound, FilmTools, Markertek are all good sources of cables and other gear.

Steve I totally agree with you that a board feed is not necessarily the ideal sound for video mix. If I have the time and the sound guy is willing to do it I try to get sub mixes or sends from each channel, pre-fader, eq, etc. One thing I learned the hard way (makes sense though) is that the sound engineer mixes and eq's for the venue and that does not necessary sound good for your video. Sometimes all I get that's usable from the board is the sound track and the MC's mic and I have to rely on my other equipment for the rest of the sound.

All of the suppliers Steve mentioned are good suppliers. I also like the Guitar Center primarily because they are local for me and I get coupons from them that give me upwards of 40% savings. That's how I usually acquire needed equipment. Wait for a sale and then use a coupon.

As far as looking for cables I'd recommend not go go cheap. It's not that a more expensive cable will necessarily sound better, but since you will be using these on location they will take some abuse. Better cables are made for such use and also have better shielding. Of course Monster Cable is a huge name but also Mogami, and for a good not too expensive cable I like Pro Co.

John,

Everyone here is right in telling you it was your responsibility. You say:

"But without the issue being discussed prior to the event, I still believe the situation to be considered "sticky." The problem wasn't getting audio to tape, but getting GOOD audio to tape."

It seems you are still trying to avoid responsibility by saying there should have been a production meeting prior to the event. Well guess whose responsibility having that meeting was - that's right, yours. When you quoted the job it was your responsibility to know what it would take to produce the DVD you were expected to deliver and to either own or arrange for anything necessary to produce that DVD. As others have pointed out, the house sound guy's job is to provide sound for the house. If he/she can provide sound to you, that's great, but it's not their responsibility unless it has been arranged in advance. Since they were not on your payroll, they really have no responsibility to you. Most sound folks will be happy to provide a feed if they have one available, but it's your responsibility to have the cables, adapters, knowledge, etc. to make it work with your gear.

You also say:

"That's the thing...I didn't do the hiring. Another great reason why a general meeting would have been beneficial. See, I told you it was sticky!"

First of all, he was being facetious about you doing the hiring. So it's not sticky at all. As the producer, it's your job.

Hey, we've all been there in one way or another over the years. Sounds like you have learned a valuable lesson.

Have fun!

Rob

As somebody who regularly does both of these jobs, I'm amazed by all this. When mixing live sound, I've never had any video people ask me for audio from the board, and then ask for cable too! The thing that always worries me is that for the guy mixing the sound, he's mixing for the room, and sometimes compromises get made that nobody might notice live, but having it recorded would be not so nice. I'm thinking about when I've pushed an instrument that was weak, and after a minute or two discovered that the mic I'd set out for the acoustic guitar is still where I left it, and the player is trying to use his vocal mic instead - hence why my fader prodding didn't bring up the level much. Add these kind of things together with just the general balancing and its very easy to see why sometimes the vidiots (what us Brits call the video people behind their backs) sometimes get all angry because their level went up or down, or doesn't have the lead guitar in it - because the musician had upped the volume from soundcheck and I had too much of it even with the fader down. I don't have the time (or inclination) to don headphones and check what the video is getting. I can see leds flashing on the output they are using - that's as good as it gets. I'm always amazed they let me, a complete stranger provide a feed. Hopefully it's ok, but I have no way of knowing.

When I'm on a camera job, then if I can get a feed from the house system, great - but I never rely on it. I'll allways take room sound onto the other channel and then balance the two together in post. As for stereo? If the job needs stereo, then I leave a MD recorder at the mix position and get them to record onto that, and sync it up later.

Where a client wants good quality video sound, then I take in a large rack and take a direct feed from each desk channel, record everything and then mix it myself.

When I go to do a job cold, then I have 100m of xlr on a drum, lots of shorter lengths, and enough kit for every eventuality - including an IEM transmitter that can take the mixer output and send it to on camera receivers. I've built up a pile of kit over the years and rarely get flumoxed on a job. The people who walk in with a camera and tripod and nothing else get short shift from me if they then demand (not ask nicely) for me to do extra work for them. Like want to do sound checks just as I finish 8 hours work and want food. Not my fault they arrived with only half an hour before we start! And they do!

Point well taken. Will this still give me stereo output though?

<snip>
JS

I've yet to find a venue that does sound reinforcement in stereo. There's good technical reasons for this. You could split the feed(s) from the desk but don't be surprised if what you get is the same thing on both channels. To get around this I always grab any stereo sources such as CDs that were used during the event and drop them into my edit.

I also like the Guitar Center primarily because they are local for me and I get coupons from them that give me upwards of 40% savings.

That's where I got this bad boy. Lifetime warranty is nice...and I can tell it is a quality cable, another reason why it's not so bad...just timing could have been better. Yes, the sales are nice!!


It seems you are still trying to avoid responsibility by saying there should have been a production meeting prior to the event. Well guess whose responsibility having that meeting was - that's right, yours. When you quoted the job it was your responsibility to know what it would take to produce the DVD

I agree, I'm not trying to avoid responsibility at all. I was simply saying that if we had the meeting (that I should have called for) then I would not be in this...yes I'll say it, sticky situation!


Hey, we've all been there in one way or another over the years. Sounds like you have learned a valuable lesson.

Have fun!

Rob

Learning can be the most fun part about it. You really find out what you are cable of when in a crunch! (ie. spending $100+ without a flinch, or being able to seamlessly lace the HD footage from one tape and the SD footage (that was supposed to be HD) from another tape to make a great music video!)

JS

The thing that always worries me is that for the guy mixing the sound, he's mixing for the room, and sometimes compromises get made that nobody might notice live, but having it recorded would be not so nice...
Oh yes, I have been there. That's why I still monitor the audio and make any live adjustments needed.

...sometimes the vidiots (what us Brits call the video people behind their backs) sometimes get all angry because their level went up or down...

Now Paul be nice! (I think I may use this term for the Videographers at the weddings when I'm hired for stills)..."exit evil thoughts."

I don't have the time (or inclination) to don headphones and check what the video is getting. I can see leds flashing on the output they are using - that's as good as it gets. I'm always amazed they let me, a complete stranger provide a feed. Hopefully it's ok, but I have no way of knowing.

I'm sure if you were instructed, and paid to do it, that you would. And though a stranger, you are expected to be professional right? After all if your getting paid you probably know a little something.

Where a client wants good quality video sound, then I take in a large rack and take a direct feed from each desk channel, record everything and then mix it myself.

I see where this would be useful. Could you please provide an example, like a brand/model# of equipment that would be used for this...Once again, I'm sure when the time comes, I will stumble upon it anyway.

Not my fault they arrived with only half an hour before we start! And they do!

LOL well I certainly can't blame you for that. That goes back to being professional...you must arrive with enough time for anything to happen. I got to the shoot about 2 hours prior...which is why I had the time for my learning experience. Setup took only 10min!! But after buying cable, getting hooked up, getting levels...an hr of time got soaked up. THEN we made lighting adjustments in the venue...was ready to roll 3min before showtime. What a rush!!!

JS

I've yet to find a venue that does sound reinforcement in stereo. There's good technical reasons for this. You could split the feed(s) from the desk but don't be surprised if what you get is the same thing on both channels.
Interesting, just when I thought I knew something, I find out there is a whole other chunk of knowledge over the next hill, waiting to be soaked up. Fascinating!

To get around this I always grab any stereo sources such as CDs...

This is what I do also, but more often then not there are no CDs available.

JS

"10 channel firewire" would be an audio interface with 10 inputs, allowing you to record up to 10 separate tracks at once on a laptop (with appropriate recording software, of course)

oh yeah, thanks for that Steve!

JS

That's the thing...I didn't do the hiring. Another great reason why a general meeting would have been beneficial. See, I told you it was sticky!


I think he's talking about the sound guy that you could have brought in as part of your video crew, not the sound guy running the house system.

I think he's talking about the sound guy that you could have brought in as part of your video crew, not the sound guy running the house system.

I see. Well yeah that makes sense. In any matter this was a great experience, and in the end it works out for everyone. Client was happy, I spent 106 bucks for Class A training, and I got a "free" cable with lifetime warranty ; )

Thanks to all that took the time to respond, I'm sure this thread will keep some others out of trouble.

JS

I've yet to find a venue that does sound reinforcement in stereo.

Just did my very first one EVER this weekend, shooting for a band that are friends of mine (we're doing a contra deal - don't worry, I'm getting paid-in-kind).

Thought I'd get two feeds of the same thing but nope, drum rolls carry from one ear to the other, guitar stage left is more prominent in my left headphone/speaker... And this was from a fairly sketchy bar in a rough neighbourhood. The soundguy owns and operates all his own gear and takes GREAT pride in his work.

ADDENDUM: Further to what PRJ says above, I show up with several cables, adaptors to take rca, 1/4" trs, 1/4" ts, 1/8", gender turnarounds and ground isolators/line unbalancers.

AND I've talked with the sound guy in advance AND had the band put an FOH board feed on the technical rider.

AND bring a medium condenser mic for room sound (in this case I didn't need it - band played quietly on stage so FOH mix had EVERYTHING in it. The advantage of working with guys in their 40's - we're all going deaf from years of playing and we don't NEED to see how loud Marshall's and AMpeg's will go onstage anymore...) so I CAN capture what the audience hears.

whew you guys give some tough love!

I'll try to touch all the points here:
Cable: LiveWire 100' XLR

First off, I understand those that say it is my responsibility to have the cable. I should just be more clear in the beginning what will be required for the [good] production. And then make the necessary adjustments in my price (it was a 4hr shoot). The best thing to do would have been to have a meeting with all involved in the production prior to the event. But what if the Sound Engineer didn't have an available output on his mixer, would it still have been my responsibility to capture good sound? Key word is GOOD. Sure I could use a shotgun, or mic a monitor...that's a great fail safe as Bill mentioned, but this shouldn't be the main source for audio. Would I be expected to purchase/rent a mixer to bring to events? I think not. Well, actually...I may eat my words. This is something else that should be discussed prior to the event, and cost adjustments made accordingly. Ok, I see your point guys. But without the issue being discussed prior to the event, I still believe the situation to be considered "sticky." The problem wasn't getting audio to tape, but getting GOOD audio to tape.

Jack, I really like your point about "paying for education." This was definitely a learning experience that will carry on to future gigs (and also a cable that will be carried on to future gigs)! To be more clear, I was hired to produce a DVD (included in price). No editing besides intro and outro, but when "creating a DVD" it should be assumed that you need optimum sound quality...so this is why I deemed the cable a necessity.

All your points are valid but I thought I would have at least one person on my side ; ). I am going to eat the cost of the cable. But I will still bring it up in the next meeting just so the fact is known.

JS

John, I agree 100% with what's been said here.
If you are indeed a professional production company delivering video and audio, then you are responsible for having the right tools to do the job.

Whenever I go out on a gig, I don't rely on a sound guy or the board for my audio. If a feed is available then I'll take it, but I like to control as much as possible on a shoot. If someone is working a board, I don't have control over that so I don't rely on it as my main audio.

What I do is try to mic as many sources as possible, and use them in different ways.
For example, here's a list of my audio gear that I have available.

Edirol R44 (4 track recorder): I have two of these and feed either direct mic/line feeds or wireless feeds into the recorder. Each of these recorders send a wireless signal to my cameras via the "Line Out" ports.

Zoom H4n: Use the onboard mics along with two balanced XLR inputs to generate 4 channles of audio. One can use onboard mics and XLR feeds at the same time. SO you can double mic a PA stack (woofer and tweeter seperately) and use the oboard mics for ambient audio recording. or place the recorder in the middle of musicians and sue onboard mics to record as well as board or mic feeds for musicians as well.

Zoom H2: use onboard mics to record 2 or 4 channels of audio. I have had very good results placing this in the middle of musicians and record in 4 channels of audio. teh inut is very small and be placed practically anywhere.

Marantz PMD620: Same usage as H2 but I like using this for line feeds, as it produces better results.

Mics: Matched pair of Rode NT5 condenser mics, set of rode M3 mics, pair of Rode NT3 hyper cards, pair of Rode NTG2 shotgun mics (shotgun mics are really only used for outdoor usage or for ambient on camera audio, not critical audio).

Wireless: Sennheiser G2 wireless (6 sets) including plug on transmitters

Also, cables, adapters, mic stands, boom arms, attenuators and more.

All of these pieces of gear are used for different purposes. As for cooperate and stage gigs I use wireless and Edirol R44's. For small event gigs such as weddings, I prefer using wireless, Zoom H4n, H2, and PMD620 and Rode NTG2/M3 mics.

But how I use them is what's most important.
First off whatever sound sources are important is miced closely (when possible, which is more often than you might think). This could be wired or wireless mics, or even small audio recorders.

Then if possible, I might take a board feed. Yes board feeds are clean, but are a little too sterile for my taste, but you can mix in ambient audio in post if desired. But my main reason for not relying on the board feed, is unless i know the board tech, I can't trust that he will be able to supply me with what I might need, as he might switch off my feed by accident, boost the signal and overload my input (even when attenuated) and more.

my point is that as a professional it is my responsibility to capture the best audio and video possible.

And BTW, I am pretty much a one man band, but have developed a workflow that I am able to pull off solo, or with an assistant (which is usually for second camera only). I got my start as an audio engineer working sound board so I know my way around a studio and live venue. And over the last few years have been able to find way that I can get the audio quality that I want for my productions. I am able to capture my audio, as well as monitor it during the shoot (be sending some wireless to my cameras for monitor, backup, sync audio). Then after the event is recorded I take my captured audio and mix it in post. For me the key is to use off camera audio as my main audio and leave my camera audio for sync and backup usage.

You don't need as much gear as someone like myself has, but you should have some basics down for good audio capture. Whether hat be small recorders, wireless is up to you. But you should at least have cables, adapters, an attenuator and such in your bag whenever you go out on a shoot.

Strange.
I thought that the whole point of working is to earn money to buy more gear.
;-)
I took my first feed off a mixer desk at a gig two months ago and had to buy adaptors for the leads in order to get the sound out. I'd certainly expect to pay for those.
And I had bought long xlr cables a year or so ago, _in case_ I needed them.
Yes, you should have the right kit if you call yourself a professional. And you should get paid accordingly.
BTW the sound came out mixed with the balance in favour of the instruments and it's been difficult to fix. But it was a tryout, non-critical and it's good enough.
More importantly it will help me to get it right if I'm doing a gig in anger in the future. An investment in time and money to build experience and skills. Just as important as buying new kit.
When recording music in the past I have had at least one back-up in place and it has saved my bacon once or twice.

Strange.
I thought that the whole point of working is to earn money to buy more gear.
;-)


Oh it is...
Over the years I have worked jobs and then went out and purchased more toys in which to play with. =)

The funny thing is that I have replaced my camera more over the years , than my audio gear. Plus my audio gear holds it's value much, much better than video gear.

Good audio gear lasts much longer than good video gear. Especially lately with technology changing so fast in video.

Take a look on eBay and see the prices of some classic tube mics.
They aren't cheap. =)

Point well taken. Will this still give me stereo output though?

JS

John,

Unbalanced stereo, yes, but you really don't want to run unbalanced audio 100 feet.

Ty Ford