(tangent thread off of the "JTL Everlight" thread)

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh : I haven't used the rifa. i looked at it but decided not to because I got better bang for my buck with the photoflex and Tota.

The Rifa lamps are expensive and not as easy to buy. The Tota lamp range is greater, cheaper and easier to find

You could use the omni with your umbrella but i'll bet that once you get a softbox that umbrella will stay on the shelf.

A lttle side note here. Some lamps provide an umbrella clamp hole either on the lamp or the yoke. the lamp swivel or the yoke locking screws will not do an adequate job of keeping the weight aloft. Spend $20 on a lobo clamp. It's also better to use speed rings to mount lamps uin a softbox rather than mounting the speed ring to the lamp. The locking collarts on the yokes of lights like the ianiro or even the arri are really stressed by the weight of all that crap hanging off them

In fairness we should really start a new thread as this one was intended for the JTL Everlight and the folks asscociated with the topic have put a whole lot of effort into it.

Thanks
Bryan -->>>

So would you recommend buying a 2nd Tota along with a Photoflex softbox setup instead of the Rifa? It sounds like maybe the only advantage of the Rifa is the portability/setup speed...

I also agree that I'd much rather be using a softbox than an umbrella - I've always used Arri Fresnels w/ Chimeras when I've rented, but didn't have the cash for that when it came time to buy. The only reason I've been using the umbrella is due to the backlog Lowel's got on the Rifa...

Read that locked cheap lighting thread. All of the prices and the links are there. be sure to look at the photoflex kit. B&H have two listing and both are $180. The kit will give you a few strip masksa and a circle mask as well as the louvers(free)

First of all, you can never have too many lights. Its just one of the things, when you are on a shoot, and pull out all your gear, and you say, "damn, if I only had a (insert any one of a number of choices) everything would be perfect." So you may be certain there is no one great answer.

I guess I would still suggest the JTL Kit, in your situation Matt, based on this shakey logic: You will end up with more instruments in the end. Certainly the PhotoFlex Medium with a speed ring will work great with the Tota, but it will cost you about two hundred sixty for the upgrade and you will still have three units with $240 to play with. Maybe buy a LTM 400 watt Pepper. You can lamp this down to 200 watts if you want, and you would have a nice fresnel. We have not discussed the open face versus fresnel at all, and that is a big issue.

Open face lights are used in professional situations where they want some punch, usually to pop through diffusion, or, to throw the light some distance. The fresnel is used to provide a more even, focused light. Put the light where you want it, kind of thing. The glass lens helps the light to be even across its beam. Open face lights tend to be spotty, but if you use them to bounce off a ceiling, or punch through a six by six silk, they get the job done. And they are cheaper, watt for watt, since you are not paying for a lens. Favorite open face lights are Mighty Moles, Blondes, Red Heads, Arris, etc.

But what do you do with three soft boxes? Well you can use one light for the ambient room fill light. Either the 500 watt or 750 will work for this in a soft box. Try to place a practical lamp or two in the scene, and then place the soft box to imitate what that light is doing, with more output.

A second soft box can be used for the key light on you main subject. The five hundred watt should work fine for this. Maybe your subject is standing closer to the practical, so we would expect the light would be brighter on her in this position.

The third soft box can by dimmed way down to provide a very soft fill from the off-key side. Or, whatever.

Use the Omni with a lot of diffusion to light a dark plant. Green plants are notorious for sucking up light. Or, let it be a slash of sunlight on a wall. Or, to pick up a dark corner.

I'm fighting to find a use for the Lowel open face lights, which I don't care for, but there is always a use for an extra light. The trick is making what you've got work for you.

Hopefully, in a couple weeks I will have some stills that will better illustrate what I am talking about. BTW, my latest purchase is a Source Four Jr. which should be arriving any day. More about that later. I usually rent, but I wanted one to play with on my own time.

HTH

Thanks Wayne, great post... I probably need to think about what kind of lighting I plan on doing most often and try to make a decision based on that. I do plenty of interviews, etc., but also some shorts and narrative-style work as well.

Thanks for the suggestions...

I just read the Cheap Lighting thread, and other than the first post (which helped link some of the Photoflex options) I have to say it didn't do much for me other than give me a headache with all the bickering!

Obviously, the equipment I've got I plan on keeping (and for the record, I've had no complaints - even compared to the Arri Softbox kits I've rented. I wouldn't try to argue that they're equal in quality, just saying I was a little worried before I bought them that I might be "cheaping out" by not getting Arri's. I've been pleasantly surprised, but maybe because of realistic expectations...?)

Anyway, I appreciate your suggestion for a couple of alternatives to the Rifa. If anyone else has other suggestions on the best use of about $500 for a soft compliment to my existing package I'd be glad to hear them.

I'd especially love any comments from people who have actually used the Rifa as to it's value!

We bought a couple of the Rifa 88 kits here at The U of M.

I love them! First, they take an FEL lamp up to 1000W. These are cheap
and readily available. The kits come in a nice "only as big as it needs to be"
plastic case with shoulder strap. Stands are light weight, but seem pretty
strong considering their weight.

The light given off is really nice. These boxes use some sort
of vinyl like diffusion on the front which works great.
The box part of the set up is basically a big
umbrella that opens and snaps when in position, then you twirl a set
type screw which locks the umbrella into position. So the set up is
really fast and truly easy. The front diffusion "square" has a grommet
in each corner. The ends of the umbrella spokes fit through the grommets
and then velcro™ strips hold the diffusion to the umbrella.

Bottom line, $750 each at B&H, light, easy and fast setup and great looking
light. If my department didn't have two, I would buy these for myself.

PS The guys at our PBS television station in Flint, WFUM,
drive down and borrow them for every big gig and telethon they do,
so you most likely have their endorsement too.

Has anyone bought the egg-crate for the JTL Everlight? If so, from who and for how much.

And has anyone bought a 250w or bulb for the Everlight? If so, what bulb brand and model is it?

Thanks,

David

What is an "egg crate". I have the JTL kit. Just wondering.

JTL lists an egg crate as a softbox accessory: http://www.jtlcorp.com/lightbanks/4.html. An egg crate divides a 24" x 24" softbox into 144 2" x 2" virtual softboxes. This reduces spill. The louvers are similar, but only in one axis.

The bulb in the kit is a G9.5 EHD. It also comes in a 750w EHG version and in 3200K EHC and EHF versions respectively. The 3200K version are rated at 300 hours vs. 2000 hours for the 3000K versions.

I believe the GY9.5 prefocus version have a close pin/base configuration (both have 2 pins 9.53mm apart on the CL, but the G9.5 both pins are 3.2mm, and on the GY9.5 one is 3.2mm, the other 2.4mm), but a a shorter height. They are the same price at B&H. They only come in 3200K or so versions...no 3000K option.

The GY9.5s are used in the Arri 300w and 650w fresnels. But I haven't found a 120v G9.5 250w bulb. If someone bought it from JTL, we could find what model it is.

http://www.ushio.com/files/entcatalog3.pdf

Cross reference the known bulbs and you'll find evry bulb available. Just be sure to match the base , filament type and position. The bulb codes are generic and will work for GE, Sylvania and general as well as Ushio. It's not hard to march bulbs once you get into it.

You could always try a search, I did look up all of the available bulbs a few months ago.

Ushio doesn't list a 250w G9.5 bulb, but JTL has one in their catalog.

There are no G9.5 bulbs listed that I can see. There is one edison base 250 watter, but that's a whole different ball game and for their web light series. if you read the Ushio catalog there are 400 watt lamps available. Once difused 400-500 watts isn't much light at all.

I have been using the JTL softboxes with 500W lamps... I am wondering if I can plug them in to a regular household dimmer (appropriately rated of course) when I need less light? The guy who sold them to me on EBay said he didn't know...

I am very happy with the lights by the way...

Thanks in advance.

Barry,

You sure can, BUT... It will likely change color temp, especially if you dim the significantly. Be sure to white balance once you have final light levels set. Also, if you have the lights that are cooled by a fan, you may not want to use standard dimmers. Electric motors can play hell with dimmers that are not designed for inductive loads.

I would also recommend a "premium" dimmer such as a lutron. Don't skimp on the capacity, a 600 watt would be cutting it close for a 500 watt load if it was used for long periods of time.

A 1000 watt box mounted dimmer is best

Mount dimmer in a utility box and assemble the box with at least a ( two conductor with ground ) heavy duty 16 guage cord. Wire a 2 foot length of cord with a heavy duty male 120 volt plug cap as input and the same with a heavy duty female connector (recepticle) as output.

Use the appropriate clamp or compression box connector to secure the cable in and out of the box. Find and fit a metal coverplate, plastic will break and is unsafe. Outdoor or watertite boxes have a professional look to them and they're only $3-$4. Don't use a residental new work type electrical box, it looks cheezi and it's dangerous.

Heavier wiring won't really benifit you as #16 will safely handle 10 amps. 1000 watt's is 8.3 amps .

Let's say that you bought the JTL Everlight kit so you could learn and practice with lighting and possibly work on a no-budget project or two.

When it's time to move on to better and more expensive lighting (such as an Arri kit), would you still have a need for the JTLs? Or, would rarely, if ever, use them once you've upgraded?

Thanks

Sure, why not? If you liked and found use for the JTL soft boxes, then you can use them as much as you'd like, whenever you'd like, and with whatever other lights you like.

Doesn't really matter if you're talking about this light kit or some other light kit. It can never hurt to have more lighting in your bag of tricks.

All,

I have two JTL Everlight softboxes and I have a few bulb questions...

1. Where can you order replacement bulbs? Time is of the essence :).

2. Mine shipped with 500W bulbs, and on the back they list part numbers for a variety of wattage bulbs... but the 1000W is crossed out (I assumed by the distributor)... can these units handle 1000W? I'd love it if they could.

3. How do you guys transport your bulbs? Are there cases for that? I want to get a pelican case or something, but worry about melting the foam if the bulbs are still warm... right now I am just putting them in their boxes and into my bag... not working so well (see #1).

Thanks in advace.

Hi Barry. I am going to give you a very good post from Will Fastie about the bulbs, but first; the one thousand watt bulbs are not doable. They are too hot for the softbox and will trip the breaker. You can use a 750 watt bulb, if you peel back the top of the soft box a bit extra to allow the heat to escape. No biggie, but this is definitely one of the limitations of this kit, allow it has not been a problem for me, or any of the posters I have read. I would also appreciate hearing from you here, or e-mail me direct with your reaction to the kit. Now, here is Will's post:

In previous posts in this thread, we have discussed the color temperature of the bulbs supplied with the JTL Everlight kit. I want to provide an update and recommendation.

The kit as purchased came with EHD 500W bulbs at 3000K. As previously stated, this was close enough to 3200K that the white balance feature of the camcorder produced an appropriate image. Had I planned to use the lights solely for video work, I would have put the issue to bed.

However, I also do some still work. Here I found the white balance problem more severe. No matter what I did, and I tried several digital cameras, the photos always looked better after some adjustment with Photoshop. Because of this, I decided to buy some 3200K bulbs and see what kind of difference they made.

I bought two FLK 575W bulbs from Production Advantage, a source often mentioned here, for $15 each, about $1 more than the EHD.

The difference between the EHD and FLK was immediately apparent in my first application, a recent shoot indoors with sunlight coming in through a window. I first tried to light with the EHD bulbs, one key and one fill, but discovered that the sunlight was casting blue light on one cheek of my subject while the key light was casting red light on the other cheek. Obviously, there was no way to balance this with the cam, so I needed an alternate solution. After some experimentation, I obtained the best shot with an FLK-equipped light as the key.

Certainly the difference between 3000K and 3200K contributed somewhat to the better lighting. However, the FLK lamp put out quite a bit more light, much more than I would have expected for just a 75W difference in power consumption. This helped to balance the sunlight and create a more natural appearance for the subject.

Upon further examination, I discovered that the EHD lamps are rated for 10600 lumens while the FLK lamps emit 16500 lumens. That's over 50% more light for just 15% more power. There is a downside, of course; the EHD bulbs have a life of 2000 hours, the FLK just 300.

I have some further experiments to do with the still camera, but I'm convinced. I plan to use the FLK bulbs regularly, using the EHDs only for situations in which less or softer light is desirable.

We have also discussed whether the Everlight softboxes are up to higher-wattage lamps. I used the FLK for hours at a time. The lights operated constantly. They were certainly hotter than the EHD, but not so hot to cause a problem.

My recommendation is to specify lamps other than the EHD when purchasing the Everlight kit, even if it raises the price a few bucks.

Wayne,

Thanks for the post... I am ordering those bulbs....

In general I have been very happy with the boxes.. the are quick to set up, light to carry, provide good covereage...etc... I got the pack with 2 softboxes and an umbrella, and I have never used the umbrella... though I have used that 1000W light to back light a scrim... I am thinking of getting more softboxes...

One interesting note... the very first time I used them on location I was just going around the corner so I left them asembled and took them in the car... well, it seems something came a bit loose... we had been powered up for a bit and my DP adjusted a light... one of the poles (?) came loose and the box collapsed on to the hot bulb and instantly caught fire... ouch... that it happened two feet below the ceiling and three feet above a ten thousand dollar wooden marimba didn't make the scene any less stressful... a bit of calm quick action doused it and I am left with a fifth vent hole on one of my boxes...

Lesssons learned: I always assemble the boxes on site, and I always bring a fire extinguisher.

(reactions anticipated: "and this from the man who wants to put in 1000W bulbs? " hehe)

Whoa, Barry! I guess that's one story I won't be repeating, although it is a good warning. Glad it worked out alright.

Hey there,

I did a few searches through archives and saw plenty of discussion about whether to go with this kit or not, but not much discussion about egg crate options for those who did in fact buy one.

I've used my kit in an interview situation and am satisfied, but am wondering what my egg crate and louver options are. The kit comes with 24"x24" softboxes, but I wonder if I can use any egg crates with it or only the ones made by JTL.

For example, could I use the Kino options listed here?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=search&Q=&shs=louver&ci=1&sb=ps&sq=asc&pn=2

Thanks.

I don't think the Kino Flo egg crates will give you the desired effect, Chris, but you might try it, since the price is so low. Please let us know how it works out if you do try the Kino crates. I would guess you would get the 2 ft version. And B&H is so good about returns, I'm sure you could get your money back if it doesn't work out.

Here is a link to a company that is selling the JTL line, including the fabric egg crate, which runs a considerably more expensive $87.00 versus under twenty for the Kino, but actually less expensive than those egg crates made for Chimera and Photo Flex. I have not used the JTL egg crates, but they should be fine for their purpose. http://www.photography-lighting.com/softboxes.html
Go to the bottom of the page for the egg crates and louvres.

I have a set of the JTL louvres, and while they do the job, they are clumsy to work with, and I can't say I am enthusiastic about them. Especially for the $42.00 price.

Wayne Orr, SOC (which is celebrating its 25th anniversary this year)

Or.......If you are not deathly afraid of a sewing machine, you can make 'em.

I picked up a roll (huge) of 21/2 inch webbing tape at a discount fabric supply (that's what they use) for about 6 bucks. Use a hot knife (soldering iron with a filed down tip) to cut it all up, and start sewing. It all took about 4 hours.

If you are interested I can post some details and pics. It works great on my JTL's.

Cheers

Mike

Why is the price of the jtl kit 1500 so different from one dealer to the other.

The price should be around $500.00. Anything dramatically less should set off a red flag. Anything much more, and you are spending your money unnecessarily.

Here is a dealer that has posted here and elsewhere: http://www.photography-lighting.com/JTL-Everlights-Lighting.html

Wayne Orr, SOC

Hey Wayne

JTLcorp.com told me it would cost 650 dollars for a version that works on 240 v for here in holland. Does that sound right and would i be better of buying a transformer that could do the job.

thanks in advance,
Jeffrey Levenstone

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeffrey Levenstone : Hey Wayne

JTLcorp.com told me it would cost 650 dollars for a version that works on 240 v for here in holland. Does that sound right and would i be better of buying a transformer that could do the job.

thanks in advance,
Jeffrey Levenstone -->>>

Although the xformer would get the voltage right, the line freqency would be 50hz and the lamps wouldn't achieve their rated output. When I visited Holland, my razor was plugged into the travel adaptor and it ran slower because of the 50hz line frequency even though the voltage was stepped down properly to 120v. This would affect any cooling fan motors that might be incorporated into the light housing. All those components have to be switched out.

Good luck,

=gb=

<<<-- Originally posted by Greg Boston :
Although the xformer would get the voltage right, the line freqency would be 50hz and the lamps wouldn't achieve their rated output. When I visited Holland, my razor was plugged into the travel adaptor and it ran slower because of the 50hz line frequency even though the voltage was stepped down properly to 120v. This would affect any cooling fan motors that might be incorporated into the light housing. All those components have to be switched out.-->>>


Sorry to correct you Greg, but there wouldn't be any problem in using incandescent lights in a 50Hz country. As long as the voltage is right.

You are right in saying you had a problem with your razor, which is probably AC frequency dependent.

The fan motors would probably run at less speed, but they should still cool down, probably doing less noise too.

The best way to do it is using 240 lamps though, as transformers are quite inefficient and can get noisy as well as hot.


Carlos

Does the price that jtlcorp want to sell me at is this correct.

Jeffrey, that price is too high. Even if they swapped the bulbs for you. I would contact the people at the link I posted earlier in this thread and see what they can do for you. You may have to purchase additional 240v bulbs, as Carlos mentioned, if the retailer cannot supply them. That should be no problem. And you will need adapter plugs, which are pretty cheap.

BTW, do not purchase any lights with built-in fans. They are too noisy to use with sound recording.

Let me contact someone I know who has used the JTL kit in foreign countries and see what he says. Give me a day or two.

Wayne Orr, SOC

OK, Jeffrey, here is the info regarding the 240V bulbs. My source recommends " any store that sells the Ushio lamps for that kit will also
sell 240v stuff._ What I use is the Ushio Halogen Lamp JCV240V-500WBM.
I got this rare lamp through Light Bulb Supply Company at 2010 Delgany
St. Denver Colorado (303)295-1800._"
Ushio bulbs are used in the JTL kit, but you are welcome to use other brands of similar style. The standard bulbs from Ushio are EHD 500 with the G9.5 base.

One reader of this forum recommends using using FLK 575 bulbs, which are rated at 3200K instead of the EHD bulbs which are 3000K. The 3000K bulbs will give a slightly warmer appearance if you use the pre-set white balance setting. You can do a manual white balance to correct for the lower Kelvin temperature, if you wish. At any rate, the member found these 3200K bulbs at Production Advantage. (http://www.productionadvantageonline.com/) The downside is, the 3200K bulbs have a much shorter life than the 3000K bulbs.

Another reputable source for the JTL Everlight kit is Adorama. They are a large store and may be willing to work with you on the 240V bulbs. Not sure.

Hopefully you will let us know if everything works out well for you, because there has been some interest in this kit from others across the pond.

HTH

Wayne Orr, SOC

<<<-- Originally posted by Wayne Orr :
BTW, do not purchase any lights with built-in fans. They are too noisy to use with sound recording.


Wayne Orr, SOC -->>>

Wayne,

I agree about the fans and video use. However, one of the JTL kits offered on the above referenced site has two of the large 500w softboxes and a 3rd smaller 500w hairlight that does use a cooling fan. Just wanted to point out that the motor would not run quite as fast at 50hz. Would be interesting to see exactly what they change out in the kit for overseas use that justifies the price difference.

BTW Wayne, thanks for that link. Looks like a good price for that kit.

regards,

=gb=

Thank you all for your replies. I am now talking to adoramma via email about the combination wayne is suggesting.

I will let you know how it turns out.

Jeffrey

I might be willing to buy a JTL light. Not a kit, just one head with tripod.

Which model should I look for, where in NY and how much would be it?

Is there a JTL speed-ring I can use on a Desisti/Ianiro open faced Cosmobeam type?


Carlos

I took a look at JTL's website, which has been updated to include some new items, including a kit with a boom and hairlight that replaces one of the standard softboxes and stand. This would be a dynamite kit for one hundred bucks more than the standard kit, except it lists a light with a fan for the hairlight. Could be that the narrow hairlight softbox gets too hot and needs the fan to disperse the heat. Too bad, since the fan units are killers for sound recording. Anyway, here is a link to see what's going on with the kits:

http://www.jtlcorp.com/red/everlightkit.html

If you are looking to get an idea of prices, here is a link to a retail outlet:

http://www.photography-lighting.com/JTL-Everlights-Lighting.html

BTW, JTL makes a lot of gear for the still photog also, and there are some reviews of their gear at their site. And, yes, you can buy the boom as a separate item and mount a regular JTL softbox on it. As a matter of fact, you could mount most any medium sized lamp on the boom, like the LTM Pepper 420.

Wayne Orr, SOC

One minor annoyance with the JTL Everlight Kit has been the lack of bulbs available below the standard 500 watts that ship with the kits. 500 watts is a bit more output than necessary with today's light sensitive cameras, and a lower wattage bulb would come in handy for portrait lighting.

I did a rather extensive search and found a 300w bulb that will fit in the JTL Everlight lamp housing. It has a GY9.5 base, which is slightly thicker than the standard G9.5 base used in the Everlights, however, the prongs are the same distance apart and slip easily into the Everlight base. I tested the bulb in the lamp for over an hour with no problems, and don't know why they shouldn't work just fine. The bulbs are standard FKW halogen lamps, rated at 3200K, and are used in many motion picture industry lamps, such as Mole-Richardson Betweenies. and they are priced very reasonably at Bulb Connection for $14.00 plus shipping. Here is a link:

http://www.bulbconnection.com/ViewItem/bcrw/itmid/389/oc/FKW/item.html

As an intersting side note, these bulbs are shorter than the EHD lamps that ship with the Everlight Kits, and will allow you to mount those plastic lamp casings over them, unlike the EGD bulbs, which are too long.

However, it should be noted that I am not an qualified electrician, and my comments regarding use of this bulb should not be considered a recommendation. This is merely for informational purposes, and I welcome any comments from qualified parties.

Wayne Orr, SOC