My wife and I finally took the plunge with our first wedding video. One of the many things I learned on this one was to mic both the groom AND the bride. I had assumed his mic would pick everything up, but they stood farther apart than we had anticipated--thus the distracting signal-to-noise ratio during her vows. I also need to learn more about color grading. We welcome your comments and suggestions. Here is the link…
Patrick & Silvia Byers's videos on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/user1896170/videos)
Thanks.

Looks Great Patrick!

Whats the text scripting effect you use? looks really good.

Great film quality, love the opening shots.
I'm very curious to know what cameras you used.

i too like the titling, the quality, the audio, and the fact it's your first attempt! well done!

do you mind me giving brutal but constructive criticism?
- watch any film and count how many times the camera zooms in/out. once, maybe twice? ok, it might be a personal thing, but i'd suggest only to zoom before you hit record. only include it if you really had to, sort-of-thing. So i'm sorry to say it, but all your best shots are ones where there's no zooming!
- i totally see what you're saying about micing the bride up, but take into account that alot of brides won't want to be mic'd up. in the 3 years doing this, i've got away with mic'ing the groom up, using a shotgun mic on the camcorder, and more recently having an olympus DS30 audio recorder near the front. that grabs all the clear audio i need, without mic'ing the bride up.

i hope you don't mind those pointers, they aren't even necessarily 'right' but thought u might like to read them either way

look forward to seeing your future work!

I agree with Richard way to many zooms but otherwise nice.

Thanks everyone, for your feedback.
Josh, I created the titles with Apple's LiveType.
Mary, we shot it with a Canon XLH-1 (camera 1) and a Canon HV20 (camera 2)
Richard, your critique is very much appreciated. Anything I can learn from you "old hands" is worthwhile. For me, the fast pushes and pulls of films from the 70's are objectionable, but I thought slower zooms would be OK. I've got a GlideCam but I felt it would be distracting to the ceremony. Perhaps quicker static shots would be less objectionable. Also, thanks for the pointers on audio. I like your approach better than mine of asking the bride to carry a transmitter in her garter.

Great job, I really enjoyed it! (loved the shot of the ducks :) )

I won't repeat what others have said.

I liked the DOF shots you put in there. I would use the glidecam more. It is a powerful tool and can get some fantastic shots.

I would like to hear more ambient audio. Water fountain sounds, wind in the bushes, etc. It makes the documentary approach you chose much more impressive.

And I know others have said it, but the zooms where pretty over used. Just expect that no one here on DVinfo will be too keen to see zooming shots, unless it is a rare reveal type shot.

The production does look very nice though for a first go! I don't even watn to show my first one!

What is the goal of this production? A whole wedding overview? A preview? A sampler? IT seemed a bit long. For that sort of length I woudl want more dialog and plot development.

Love the opening shot ( first 20 seconds), wish I can find a spot like that in Toronto without being runned over by car. In my opinion I would cut back on the intro shorten it a bit). I also like the duck shots. Overall it's great.

Thank you for sharing.

Noel, you'll have to drive a long way north of the city, on highway 11, (Yonge St) or highway 10, (Hurontario), to get anything like that.

If you look, it will be there, but you will also have to watch out for cars!

Thanks again, everyone. Wow! I never realized what an effect zooms can have on the pros. Thank you for the pointer. You all have my word that my next production--if I'm lucky enough to get another--will be zoom-free.
Yes, I'm a fan of the shallow DOF.
I didn't have the ambient of the fountain because I was zoomed in from far away for the DOF. (Now I know I should have come closer after the shot and sampled some audio only to include it.)
As for the goal/length…I'm glad you asked that question, Jason. I don't know what's generally expected. What lengths do you sell the most of? Does a basic package usually include a highlight piece like I see on your websites or is that usually just for marketing yourself? Is the wedding video itself supposed to be the full ceremony in real time without the bells and whistles that can be shot before or after during a separate, more art-directed shoot?
Sorry if I sound clueless, but I pretty much am.
And again, thanks so much to everyone for taking the time to guide me. I am very impressed and humbled.

I know that were you live glidecam, cranes, 35mm adapters, glidetracks and Canon 5d's are almost considered a must have but to be honest, you can make a good wedding video with just one camera a good tripod and by assuring your audio is good. Ofcourse everything you add will increase the value of your production but you need to get the basics right and build from there.

In your case I was surprised seeing how well you did as this was your first wedding, think you would laugh when seeing what I did my first time. :)
The comments here about zooming I can only agree, only zoom when it has a meaning, otherwise don't and zoom mainly to choose what you want to show and then start recording or cut away zooms in post.

Second thing is your audio, I don't think you need to worry about color grading in the beginning as to me the color looked ok but good audio makes all the difference, I liked it when you used the audio from the grooms mic some time before the ceremony started and you captured some nice moments there. But the priest, bride and grooms voices all had a too different tone. Especially the priest sounded quite hollow. Micing the bride is something that I don't have to try here as they just won't accept. Remember, the bride is the princess of the day and you don't wan't to ruin that with an ugly black clipon mic :) I use a combination of 4 audio recordings. One is a iriver with clipon mic to get the audio from the groom, the second one is a iriver that I attach to a fixed microphone where guests read something, a 3rth is a zoom h4 which i place in front of a church loudspeaker, or if they have people singing live I place it in front of them and last ofcourse the audio from my camera.

here I always can get up very close when they share the rings but my iriver takes all the audio I need. Also bride and groom are never so far apart as in your case when they say their vows. :)

Also watch out with the second camera, the hv30, because I saw some uncontrolled and out of focus shots (at 06:34) which didn't look that nice. Here it would be better leaving that camera's lens wide (no zooming in!) and place it on a good tripod that can move smooth.

I think that when you can get those basics better you already can have high value production, you made a very good start and it can only get better.

Maybe one last tip, your demo was realy long, if you want to use it as highlights in the future for clients 3 to max 5 minutes should do. Most people won't watch much longer.

Thanks, Noa.
What model/configuration of iriver do you use and/or recommend. Just Googling it, I see everything from $70 to $450 USD prices.

I was lucky to get myself an older version which was cheaper and much smaller then the models they make now. I use a iriver T20MX with a Archos stereo microphone and amplifier.
To give you an idea about the quality, paste below link in your browser, the first part you will hear is what my camera recorded and I was about 2 meters from the priest, the second half is what the iriver recorded (the priest had the microphone clipped on.)

http://www.noafilm.be/wp-content/audio/iriver_test.mp3

That came from an English / Norwegian wedding in the center of Brussels which was my only not Dutch speaking wedding till now :)

...the first part you will hear is what my camera recorded and I was about 2 meters from the priest...

Was that the onboard camera mic?

I wouldn't mic the bride.

In my opinion, it's more important to go for more 'consistent' audio from the couple, which means putting the groom's mic in a position that picks them up more evenly. I believe the best position for this is to point the groom's mic downward and move it a little farther down his lapel. It's not the perfect position for micing a single speaker, but that's not what we're going for here. Expect more noise and be prepared to ride the levels (as usual), but rest assured that you can achieve consistent and intercuttable audio from one lav, especially if it's omnidirectional.

Alec Moreno
http://www.1Day1ShotProductions.com

Makes sense, Alec. Thank you. I was just really thrown when I saw them standing so far apart. To complicate matters, she was extremely soft-spoken. As it was, I laid some ambient noise under the minister during the bride's vows so the contrast wouldn't be so distracting.

Was that the onboard camera mic?

yes, the first part came from the onboard mic of a dvx100b

As for the goal/length…I'm glad you asked that question, Jason. I don't know what's generally expected. What lengths do you sell the most of? Does a basic package usually include a highlight piece like I see on your websites or is that usually just for marketing yourself? Is the wedding video itself supposed to be the full ceremony in real time without the bells and whistles that can be shot before or after during a separate, more art-directed shoot?

Welcome to the life long learning & updating process (get a gear budget and stick to it!). All this talk of iRivers, Zooms, and my references to the AT1820 UHF receivers, etc will suck the budget and joy out of your work if you always feel you are treading water financially and never having money left over for profit.

Ok on to the play time comment. Generally for any web demo, I punch up the production value and make it as interesting as possible and as short as possible. Because visitors don't stay long on my site. You have at most a minute before they get bored (or less).

Looking at my Google Analytics, I see that the average visitor to my site (last 30days) spent 3 minutes on the site and viewed 3 pages. That is probably enough to hit the main page, hit the packages page and hit play on one or two videos. My main page has my company promo (compiled from clips from all my previous weddings even the first wedding I ever shot).

I am fortunate to have a pretty darn good website in that it is sticky. When people visit, they look through a few pages. only 35% of the people that hit my page "bounce" or just leave and don't look at another page. That means they are serious shoppers, or at least seriously interested in what I have to view.

By the way if you don't have google analytics on your site, GET IT!


.... so you are wondering what that stats stuff has to do with play time? Well you only have may be 1 to 2 minutes to "wow" someone and you better not be trying that with a slow (if accurate) presentation of a wedding day. When I talk to the clients (two prospective client phone calls today! wow!) I mention that the clips on the web site are representative of portions of the wedding day, but that I do include the FULL wedding ceremony (multi-cam cut of course) in real time.

My finished videos tend to be 45 minutes give or take a bit. 5 minute intro to the venue (aka glidecam of ceremony location, establishing shots of bride / groom getting ready, etc), then 5 minutes formal portraits, goofing off shots, then the ceremony is 20-30, then the reception is the rest.

If the bride gets the packages that includes my "wedding day highlight" then I also deliver the on DVD. On my sample videos page, there is a link to a "video introduction" this is a frame for frame copy of exactly what I deliver to the B&G for the first few minutes of their wedding video.

There is only so much that we can do to the wedding ceremony before we are significantly altering the order of events and screwing with "their wedding." So I tend not to touch the ceremony, other than multi-caming and adding good B-roll / wide shots.

So in answer to your question, how _i_ do it is to produce highly edited /stylized productions for all portions of the day except the ceremony. But putting clips of people's ceremony doesn't grab attention or make bookings so I create high impact demos, trailers, & Weddign Day Highlights to sell the whole service.

As always, Jason, really good stuff. Thanks for taking the time--and having the patience--to answer what must seem like some pretty basic newbie questions. Very helpful.

First, well done. Miles better than our first work.

For a bit more info on the zoom thing. The reason no one uses it is because zooms arnt natural. The human eye cant zoom so when you see it the body feels uncomfortable about it. What most of us do is zoom really quickly and cut it out in the edit. Cutaways are a major part of editing so use them well.

What your trying to achieve with the zoom is a reveal. The way which the movies do it and you do it with your eyes is to move in closer. This also alters the perspective. The best and cheapest way to re-create this is with a Glidetrack.

We dont mic up the bride, as long as your grooms mic is Omni directional your fine. If its cardioid then your in trouble.

I'm going to be a heretic. There were indeed a lot of zooms in the footage, but all those scenery zooms at the beginning of the film were to artistic effect (a subjective matter of taste), not just the crazy zippy, mindless zooming so typical of an inexperienced shooter. If all those shots at the beginning of the film had all been static, I don't know that it would have been a better film. It appeared that at least some of the slow zoom scenery shots were done handheld though. Putting the camera on sticks would have made the shots look better.

The compression of the original file uploaded to Vimeo was crushing. Encoding 720p at 1.2mbps, even with a high quality H.264 encoder, is awfully tough on image quality. Going to at least 2mpbs would have improved image quality dramatically, and the file would still have been well under Vimeo's 500GB limit.

Thank you for your heresy, Robert.
Actually, my first compression scheme was a 600 MB file at 4,010 kbits/sec (I assume that's equivalent to 4 mpbs?). I've got lousy ISP out here in the boondocks, so I opted for a smaller file that would upload faster, but maybe I'll let it upload over the weekend and use the larger less-crushed version. Would that cause it to load and play slower for the Vimeo viewer as well or would the notice much performance difference?

Vimeo will crush the file themselves. They re-compress every video, no matter what you send them. It won't load or play any faster or slower, but Vimeo's re-compressed version will look better, given better source. Btw, ignore their suggestion of a low (like 30 frame) keyframe interval. I have no idea why they suggest that. It won't do anything for making their re-compressed version more seekable (or better in any way). Use something like a 300 frame keyframe interval and get more efficient compression (from an image quality standpoint).

If you want a smallish file to upload faster, you could upload an SD version. A 480p version, at 1.2mbps, using H.264, would look better than 720p at that low a bitrate.

What's that sound I heard?..... oh, that was the sound of about 150 veteran wedding videographers zipping up their cameras in the cases and throwing them in the closet out of frustration!
Well, that may be a stretch, but I know I heard at least 30 say "crap, I am gonna have to work harder now!"
well, OK maybe that was only me saying that. Anyway, I have to assume that when you say this is your "first wedding", you have experience in other areas of video. There is no way someone could order a camera, play with it for a few months, and go out and do what you did.
By the opening sequence, it looks like you had a lot of time to hang out looking for awesome shots. You may find that a lot of weddings are 6-7 hours of sheer terror (terror in a fun kind of way) and that time for those incredible shots may not be there. On the other hand, if you are able to consistantly capture footage like that under intense pressure, then you have a guaranteed career in wedding video.

Wow. Thanks, Mark. That's very flattering and encouraging to hear.
Yes, I began as a writer/producer/director on some corporate and real estate videos. It was a terrific opportunity to learn from some great videographers. Eventually I decided to invest in a decent camera and started shooting my own stuff a couple of years ago. When our friends invited us to their wedding we offered to shoot it for them and really enjoyed the creative freedom. I know we were lucky to have such an unusual venue. It was an 800-mile round trip so we left a day early, which gave us ample opportunities for B roll. I can imagine these can become real pressure cookers when time and space are more limited. But it still seems like a fun way to make a living doing something we love.
Thanks again to everyone for your helpful tips and constructive criticism. What a remarkable support system we have through dvinfo.net. I can't wait till I learn enough to be as helpful as you guys have been.

That's a really nice piece of work. The script effect was nice. The background music and flow are well put together (I was a bit annoy after 5 minutes at the beginner it is still panning and zooming from scenes to scenes.).

Some of the scenes during the ceremony has too much movement.. panning and zooming. Looks like you need a better fluid head tripod .. hehe.. then in the reception, you certainly need to add some light.

Trisha and Buck looks well and is an adorable couple. I went to ACU in Abilene TX for school. Went to Big Bend a few times too =)

As for the goal/length…I'm glad you asked that question, Jason. I don't know what's generally expected. What lengths do you sell the most of? Does a basic package usually include a highlight piece like I see on your websites or is that usually just for marketing yourself? Is the wedding video itself supposed to be the full ceremony in real time without the bells and whistles that can be shot before or after during a separate, more art-directed shoot?


Hi Patrick,

I've got way more experience than you - I've shot 3 weddings! :-)

I've been wondering whats expected or usual but here's what I've been doing. I capture all the footage and divide it into preparation, ceremony & reception. Then I throw out the crap bits and edit it together with some music (Sony Cinescore usually as each section can be 20 minutes long), thats the basic footage. then I look at songs they chose for the day and pick 4 to create highlights of each section and one for the day as a whole. I put my effort onto editing and CC on all the highlights as that's what most people will look at.

I am aiming to capture the sights and sounds of the whole day (it's a selling point) and I think the couple should be able to watch the entire day if they wish. The highlights are really for a wider audience - bridal party, friends, family etc. That means they get a 2 DVD set, one highlights and the other basic footage.

that's my opinion and while I'm short of experience, I try to make sure I have opinions on everything!

I did a little bit more than that. I have main movie which includeds the ceremony, receiption and so. Then a bonus features in the DVD including additional footage like dedications (interview), photo session, slideshow, preparation, bloopers.. yeah.. bloopers the most watched chapter always. Clients love the blooper chapter..

Thanks Paul & Taky. Very helpful.

Thanks, Noa.
What model/configuration of iriver do you use and/or recommend. Just Googling it, I see everything from $70 to $450 USD prices.

Patrick, try Craiglist or Kijiji first, I bought one for $ 30 last year and another one this month for $ 10.

Appreciate it, Noel. I frequently overlook the CraigsList option. Haven't heard of Kijiji but I'll check it out.
Thanks.

I would also like to say good job.

You also may want to check out this thread for more audio recorder options, there are several mentioned:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/wedding-event-videography-techniques/96034-2-thumbs-up-olympus-ds-30-a.html