Hi all,

Just bought a GL2, and I'm looking at a under $200 audio mic. I know that Canon offers the DM-50, but I can't find any reviews on it - how does it perform? Any issues about it that I should be aware of? Thanks!

It's a decent mic for under $200. It's very handy. There's a suspension cradle which cuts down on the camera motor noise going to the mic, and the pickup pattern is much narrower and more directional than the on-camera mic. Plus you have a choice of three switchable patterns. Keep in mind that $200 is considered next to nothing in this business. That said, you can't go wrong with the DM50. They hold their value well, so if you don't like it you can always sell it. Hope this helps,

Thank you a lot for the comments. One more question I had - is there any kind of extender that I can get in case I wanted to use that mic away from the camera?

An extender is not available; the mic connects directly to the camera's hot shoe. The form factor of the mic is such that it's useable as a camera-mounted item only. You would not want to use it off of the camera; consider a different mic for that specific purpose. Hope this helps,

The question of the specifications of the Canon DM-50 on-camera microphone has been raised here several times, but the specs have never been proffered.

I was wondering if a DM-50 owner could post whatever information was provided with the mic. If spces were not provided in whatever documentation came with the mic, knowing that would help as well.

A piece of advice I got here in the forum suggested that if I needed to know the specs of this mic, then I probably shouldn't buy it. It's a good point. But I think we can provide a service by getting some solid info about the mic posted or, lacking any, by raising a collective voice to a vendor that has given us some great cameras but fails to explain its less expensive products very well -- specs and manuals for things like the DM-50 are not provided at canondv.com.

Thanks.

We already have a thread on this topic; please refer to http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6238. I suppose I should combine these two discussions since they're both covering the same thing.

Chris:

I read that thread. In fact, I read every thread on the board that so much as mentioned the DM-50 in passing.

The reason I started another thread was to make the subject stand out by targeting owners of the mic, if any.

Naturally, I'll be happy with whatever decision you make regarding the two threads.

Will

Well, hopefully we can find the mic specs.

My observation has been that Canon does not publish much in the way audio performance specifications for their mics.

Try sending Canon an email asking for the specs. Or give Customer Service a call. They are usually pretty friendly, at least when I called a while ago they were. If you do have success, I would love to know the specs also.

Good luck

I called and wrote Canon. No dice.

I suppose the fact that Canon doesn't want to tell us could be a hint.

Yes, the bottom line is, this is a *consumer* mic.

Chris:

You've made this point several times, but I just don't get it. I buy $30 consumer products all the time that come with specs or that are described in detail on a vendor's Web site. Both Sony's ECM-MS908C (list $120) and ECM-Z37C ($150) "consumer" camcorder mics, which are similar to the DM-50 in style and function, are well-documented at the site.

I remain hopeful that a DM-50 owner can provide the information Canon won't.

Will Fastie

As an alternative- check out the Azden SG-X- cost was $129 at B&H and is a better solution than the GL2 stock mic......I'm sure Azden has the specs posted online somewhere....the SG-X will probably perform very similarly to that of the DM-50....but feel free to ask the board- maybe some members here have had or tried both mics.

Type: Back electret stereo condenser shotgun microphone
Directivity: Super-directional/Uni-directional stereo
Sensitivity: -40dB/PA (0 dB= 1V/ 1 Pa, 1 kHz front, along axis)
Frequency: 150-15,000 Hz
Output impedance: 200 ohms (1 kHz)
Operating temperature range: 0-40 C
Dimensions: 32x81x150mm, 120g

I can't compare it to any other microphone, but I like it a lot. It produces a very nice recording of music and voice with a very good stereo image (in the center, stereo shotgun, setting).

SGM-X
Frequency Response: 80-18,000Hz
Sensitivity: SUPER CARDIOID -33dB re 1V/Pa
Impedance: 1.5k Ohms @ 1KHz
Max. SPL Input Level: 103dB
Signal to Noise Ratio: 65dB
Dynamic Range: 78dB
Battery Type: LR-44 - USE ALKALINE BATTERY
Battery Current: 0.5 mA
Battery Life: 150 HOURS w/ALKALINE BATTERY
Weight w/o Battery: 3.75oz (106grams)
Dimensions: 8.34" (212mm) length
Dimensions: 0.83" (21mm) diameter
Output Type: 3.5mm mini-jack
Supplied Accessories: Shoe-Mount Microphone Holder
Supplied Accessories: 1 Windscreen
Supplied Accessories: 1 Output Cable (3.5mm mini-plug - 3.5mm mini-plug)
Supplied Accessories: 1 LR-44 Battery

Tom: Thank you very much.

Steve: I already own the SGM-X. I liked the specs when I read about it and also liked the price. However, a noise problem I've discussed elsewhere on these forums has driven me to understand Canon's alternatives so I can decide if I have a mic problem, a camcorder problem, or if it's just the nut behind the wheel. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Will

Tom:

The ultimate question I'm trying to get answered is whether the DM-50 picks up mechanical noise from the zoom.

As I mentioned in the previous post, I bought the Azden SGM-X mic. Immediately I noticed that it was picking up noise from the zoom. Tests demonstrated that this was ambient noise rather than noise being picked up through the mount.

However, the GL2's on-board mic does not pick up this noise. Given your happiness with the DM-50, it must not either. I asked elsewhere whether the GL2 was cancelling its own noise; the opinion offered here is that it does not. I had thought that if the GL2 cancelled, it might cancel from a mic directly connected via the accessory shoe and that therefore the DM-50 might be a better choice than the SGM-X.

Many thanks again for posting the specs.

Will

The published specs for the DM50 compare with the Senheiser MKE300. What is missing is the S/N ratio and the max SPL for 1% distortion.

The impedance of the SGM-X strikes me as a bit high for best performance with the GL1/2 or XL1/1s. The SPL for 1% distortion is a relatively low sound level as decent mics go.

Also, the DM-50 does a decent job of killing camera motor noise. The mic is shock-mounted in a suspension cradle which dampens just about everything coming up through the body. Plus it's directional to the point where it does not pick up from the immediate camera area (but from in front of the camera instead). Hope this helps,

I can see that I don't know enough about microphones in general. I would appreciate links to sites with white papers or other collateral material that might help to educate me.

Thanks.

http://www.shure.com/booklets/techpubs.html

Excellent. Thank you.

Will,

No, I don't notice any zoom noise. It does a decent job of rejecting creaking chairs, etc. in my immediate vicinity.

One advantage of the mic for me is that it interfaces to my Optura Pi thru the intelligent hotshoe. On the Optura all audio recording levels are automatic, and I don't have any control, so its a good thing that the levels are happy. I've stopped monitoring audio while taping since it seems to be all good (and what could I do anyway?).

Is the Azden SGM-X mic stereo? I am thinking that if the on camera mic is your sole source of sound, you would want it to be stereo.

Tom:

This is going to sound incredibly stupid, but I don't know. The specs at Azden's Web site don't say and the small document that came with the mic doesn't mention stereo, either.

The mini-plug cable that comes with the mike is stereo; on the monoaural mics I own, the cable is mono. Using the audio level displays on the GL2, I appear to get different levels on each channel depending upon the location of the sound. So based on experience, I'd have to say the SGM-X is stereo. I'll ask Azden.

For my application, stereo isn't essential.

I've bought couple of weeks ago a Sony ECM-S959C.
The MRSP is about 200$ and here below the specification:

Frequency response: 50-18000Hz
Aperture: Stereo Back electrect Supercardioide (selectable 90° - 120°)
Impedance: 550ohms
Sensitivity: -51.4 +/-3dBm (0dbm=1 mW/Pa)
Max SPL: 114db
Dinamic range: 89db
S/N ratio: 69dB

My impressions are that it probabily need a little bit of equalization on the bass frequency, because the roll off filter you should gain up the frequncy below 150hz and on the middle frequency gain down between 1500-6000Hz.

Giampy:

Can you point me to a Web site regarding the ECM-S959C?

Thanks.
Will

Will,

unfortunately there are no so much web site about the ECMs959C.
I remember, some time ago, i've just issued a tread for the ECM, in witch i was asking some impressions about an audio sample.
The audio sample is included in this link:

www.nomasi.com/rmbl/sndtrck001.html

Enjoy the listening and write me back your impressions.
If you need more details, ask me

Bye

Is this really the Sony ECM-MS957? Some details at:
http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/ss5/office/accessories/microphonesfordigital/ecm-ms957_specs.shtml

Sony also offes a ECM-MS908C which is a lesser mic for camcorder mounting and a ECM-MS907 that is similar without camcorder mount.

There also was a higher end stereo mic in the professional line, the Sony ECM999.

Neither the 957 nor the 999 match the specs Giampy listed, although the 957 is pretty close.

The 907 and 908 are exactly the same mic electrically and physically except for two things. The 907 (which I own) has a long (~6 feet) cord and a mount that can be used on a mic stand or folded to allow use on a flat surface. The 908, the camcorder version (which my brother owns), has a short (~1 foot) cord and an accessory shoe mount.

I think the ecm-ms957 is the updated version of ecm-s959c with some little difference.
In the 959 type, there isn't the mid side feature and the cannon plug in but for the other i think it's pretty the same.

Anyone know if there is one?

I don't think so.

Ask the folks at www.mikemuff.com if they can make you one. They seem to be coming on fast and strong; although the item is not in their list, they might be interested.

Better yet, maybe one of their existing models will fit well enough to be useful. They have three models so far, with five more coming. The current models are a mere $40.

I should also mention www.lightwavesystems.com. They have nothing specifically designed for the DM-50 but there are some products that might fit, like the Miniscreen. Light Wave products are extremely expensive. The Canon GL2 EQ-GL is $150 compared to MikeMuff's $40.

Anybody ever go to Walmart get the faux fur and make their own mic cover?

Looking for some information on the Canon dm-50 shotgun mic. Anyone out there with any thoughts? I shoot outdoor videos, fishing, hunting, hiking etc. The price seems pretty reasonable but what about the quality? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

One other question: can the dm-50 be used without the powered shoe mount ( If I already am using the MA300 which has a shotgun mic holder)?

I've used it. I think it's pretty good, for the the money.

<<<-- Originally posted by Rick Forge : One other question: can the dm-50 be used without the powered shoe mount ( If I already am using the MA300 which has a shotgun mic holder)? -->>>

I don't think the dm-50 will work without the smart shoe on the GL2 or ZR-50, ZR-70, etc. Talking with Brian at Zotz Digital, he recommends the Schriber 568 over the DM-50. With a shock mount, you are $5 more than the DM-50. This should give you much better sound than the DM-50. This can also be used on any camera with a 3.5mm mic input and a hotshot physical mount. My only question is to get this or spend a little more for a better mic.

I shoot opera's using the DM-50 and my clients like the sound.

But I haven't used other microphones so I can't make a direct comparison.

The advantages of the DM-50 as I see it:

- It's STEREO. At Digital Verite' they have played my stuff over a projector system with a really good amp and speakers. The stereo picture is amazing. You can hear the shape of the room. That person that coughed? You know exactly where he was sitting.

- It's convenient and safe. Stick it in the hotshoe and forget it. I don't monitor sound, and I have never failed to get good results. It uses the camera's automatic level controls so you can't screw up and set the wrong levelsl, or turn it off by mistake. It won't come unplugged. (In fact in the GL2 it takes a real strong pull to get the thing out of the hot shoe.)

- It does a good job on acoustic instruments and voice (operas, remember). If the sound is good from where you are shooting from, it will sound good on the tape. It is reasonably directional, so it doesn't magnify my shuffling about, coughs and handling noise.

I doubt if it is perfect, but it is some of the best money I have spent.

-Tom-

Thanks Tom! For the money I might give it a try. One other question- If I use the dm50 in the hot shoe can I still use an xlr adaptor (beachtek) for my lavaliers? Can I still use 2 wireless lavaliers in addition to the shotgun? Or do I have to disconnect the shotgun from the hot shoe?

Thanks

The *only* way the DM-50 works, is through the electrical contacts in the advanced accessory shoe.

The GL2 is limited to two channels of live audio recording, so you'll have to choose either the DM-50 via hot shoe, or your Beachtek XLR adapter via the red 1/8" stereo mini plug on the side of the GL2.

A question for you who use Canon microphone DM-50.

Do you like it?

How much better is it compared to the camcordermic.?

PLease tell me your experience with DM-50, because I wonder if I shall buy it.

I Just got one. Not bad, but hey, its cheap, and its better than whats onboard if your on a budget. Nice though...

Please tell me more when you have tested it thoroughly.

Is it much better than the camcorder mic?

For instance, when it is windy, how do DM-50 handle it?

It's pretty decent. It handles the wind better than the onboard mic, but it will stick pick it up. Plus you have 3 modes to choose from -- the shotgun, stereo 1 and stereo 2. Like the previous post mentioned, it's a good value. It uses the hot shoe so there are no wires to deal with. Otherwise, youd have to find a mic that uses the mic jack, or use an XLR adapter which i think costs more than the DM-50 itself.

I just got my new GL2, and I did a test the other night recording a band in a club. Although the audio was good, I was hoping it would be a little better. Would the DM-50 give me better audio than the onboard mic on the GL2, and also is it powered by the camera battery?? And can you still adjust the audio input manually using the controls on the side of the camera??

The sound guy the band has is an absolute god, he makes the band sound perfect and I just want to be able to capture that sound, it sounds kind of "tinny" through the onboard mic, there is not the rich bass and midtones I am looking for. Also I don't really want to record right from the soundboard becasue I like to have the crowd noise in there, and I tried recording from the board once and it sounded really bad.

Jason,
We already have many postings (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=169913&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending) on the DM-50. I'm sure you'll find some guidance among them.

Well, I just ordered one, hopefully it will work since I won't have another chance to "test" it out in the conditions I will be shooting in untill I am actually there shooting it!

There's a post on this thread about using the GL1/GL2 at music shows. I think the advice was to get a recording through the mixing board, but leave your camera recording so you can insert some synched up stuff later to "Dirty it up" a little bit.

I got the new mic and it does sound a lot better than the one on the camera, I think at least for the first show I am going to bring along my crappy old camera, the video isn't great, but it records great audio. Then I can either use that audio completley, or make a nice mix of the 2.