Hi,

I've read through a lot of posts, including the ones in the 'sticky' at the top of this forum. I'm no further forward to making a clear decision making a choice.

I've a little project that I want to record voices over for it. I've no sound equipment what so ever, I can't hire it because I'll be doing the work as and when I've got time.

so, can anyone point me in the direction of what's the 'best' equipment for voice over recordings for micro budget.

I've been looking at a DAT, SHURE MIXER, and a NT2A RODE?

Am I looking in the right direction? Or is there better options I can go for?

Thank you
Andrew

You might look into recording directly into your computer, be it desktop or laptop, instead of buying a recorder dedicated to that role. A good audio interface is needed for a variety of post-production tasks so if you need one in order to record into the 'puter, it would be a better place to put your money than a dedicated recorder. DAT is yesterday's technology and opens up further issues in your workflow as you ultimately have to bring its recordings into the computer and convert them into audio files for editing and marrying to the video anyway. If you do prefer to use a stand-alone audio recorder, look to a modern file-based unit rather than DAT.

I agree with everything Steve says. I'll just add the rest to be "complete":

-DAT makes sense if you've been asked to SUPPLY on DAT.
-DAT also makes sense if you need an immediate archive and know that you yourself are either too busy, too forgetful or too lazy to back up computer files to removable media.

Thank you both for the advice. I'll rule DAT out.

I'll do a search for a stand alone audio recorder.

Thanks.

Thank you both for the advice. I'll rule DAT out.

I'll do a search for a stand alone audio recorder.

Thanks.

I use a Samson C01U USB Microphone and Sony Sound Forge. The mic sounds great, is sturdily built, is inexpensive, and works like a charm.

Thank you both for the advice. I'll rule DAT out.

I'll do a search for a stand alone audio recorder.

Thanks.

Why not directly to your PC? If you're thinking the quality wouldn't be any good, that's not necessarily true. Most OEM soundcards and on-board sound systems are less than stunning, it's true, and when coupled with a typical cheap "multimedia" computer microphone sound awful. But that's not what I'm recommending. A good pro-grade audio interface, a small desktop mixer, and good quality microphones recording someone who knows how to speak can produce results that are 100% professional sounding. In fact, a home-studio recording directly to computer has become an industry norm for voiceover work these days and a high proportion of the commercials you hear on radio and TV, voiceovers you hear on network broadcast documentaries, movie trailers you hear in the theatre, etc, are recorded in exactly that manner. Not on the kitchen table, mind you, you still need a decent space to record in, but you'll need that whether your recording device is a PC or a dedicated audio recorder. For that matter, dedicated audio recorders these days are really nothing more than purpose-built miniature computers themselves.

There are also several devices that accept a standard XLR connector and can provide phantom puwer to the mic, and have a USB connection on the other end.

I have a Micro Port Pro and really like it. With one of these gadgets you can use regular XLR equipped mics and record to computer or XLR stand-alone recorders. It has a headphone port as well so you can monitor without any delay that might be caused by going via the computer.

Personally, I prefer the flexibility of using standard XLR mics to limiting myself to what's available with USB.

Hey Steve, what would you look for in a good desktop mixer? Currently we are building a sound recording room and our recording system is simply a desktop computer. My friend has a mixer but i'm not sure if its what we need. He records guitar and vocals but has never worked with voice overs.

Hey Steve, what would you look for in a good desktop mixer? Currently we are building a sound recording room and our recording system is simply a desktop computer. My friend has a mixer but i'm not sure if its what we need. He records guitar and vocals but has never worked with voice overs.

Terry,

As someone who'd down a couple of thousand paid VOs I can speak with some authority on this.

Recording the human voice is not particularly challenging. It's in a pretty narrow range of frequencies, unlike for example, a symphony orchestra.

So you don't need anything particularly exotic. Just a few channel strips or rotary pots - with at least one containing a reasonably quiet mic preamp.

Probably the most popular are the Mackie small mixers. There are cheaper, off-shore knockoffs, some OK, some crap. But the Mackie stuff is solid. They'll let you not only record your primary VO but patch in a source for mixing the voice against background music - and provide a simple way to feed multiple sources into a primary feed to your sound card or recording device.

Feed this with a reasonable large diaphragm dynamic mic or more sensitive condenser. (A sensitive mic may or may NOT be good depending on the training and voice of the talent - a very sensitive mic on a reader with a sibilance or breath control problem is NOT a good thing.)

And remember, the recipe for a good VO is always going to be 10% mic and hardware - 90% performance and voice.

Good luck.

Hey Bill, thanks for the reply.

I'll have to get the specs for the mixer he already owns and post them here. I am just questioning its ability to achieve what we are trying to do. He mainly records music but most of his equipment is sort of old. He says he has a decent mixer but I think he just has a mixer and not an interface for recording to the computer itself. I've never really done any of this before so I really don't know what all is required to set up a home recording studio. I watched a tutorial last night about setting up a home recording studio and they said you need a recording interface (USB or Firewire). That (I guess) plugs into the computer and to the mixer? the guitar, vocals, drums etc can then plug into the mixer?


Terry.

There is nothing wrong with old quality equipment used by somebody who knows what they are doing. a Friend of mine - ex-BBC old school with one of those radio voices, removes as much equipment as he can carry when old studios get upgraded. He simply uses what give the best results. He has a huge library of old material on reel to reel tape, and his programmes contain a mix of modern recorded media, recorded digitally, and old archive material, and since the late seventies, the material is very hard to spot. Recorded well, with decent kit (analogue or digital) = good sound.

Your friend may well have decent kit far above the standard you can record on your desktop PC. As a rule of thumb, the kind of audio interface fitted to modern computers is designed to replay audio tracks with commonly acceptable quality - but few are what we'd call high quality. A music grade internal soundcard, or one of the external ones easily available can record and replay in high quality, and have microphone and line level inputs, useful headphone outputs and usually digital in and out too.

If you are building a room for voice, then the difficult areas are sound treatment in terms of what it sounds like. Voice needs a deader acoustic than for instruments, but you also need to consider how good it is at keeping outside sounds out!

Get the room right, then spend £75-200 on a decent A/D. One thing real mixers can do is routing - so monitoring and talkback can be easily done. This is more tricky with a computer based system, unless you have multiple ins and outs, and is sometimes so much simpler on a real desk. Just push a button and speak!

Hey Bill, thanks for the reply.

I'll have to get the specs for the mixer he already owns and post them here. I am just questioning its ability to achieve what we are trying to do. He mainly records music but most of his equipment is sort of old. He says he has a decent mixer but I think he just has a mixer and not an interface for recording to the computer itself. I've never really done any of this before so I really don't know what all is required to set up a home recording studio. I watched a tutorial last night about setting up a home recording studio and they said you need a recording interface (USB or Firewire). That (I guess) plugs into the computer and to the mixer? the guitar, vocals, drums etc can then plug into the mixer?


Terry.


Terry,

Yes, the mixer is essentially the traffic cop. It's outputs need to feed the computer if that's where you're recording your audio master. There are USB audio interfaces from less than $100 that do a fine job of taking audio inputs (typically RCA unbalanced lines) and translating those into a USB port that can feed your laptop directly. Edirol makes the UA-EX1 (i think that's the number) that does fine for about 80 bucks.

Again, mono, stereo, or even multitrack audio is NOT a particularly difficult signal for a computer to ingest and handle.

Good luck.

Recording from your computer is the easiest because in this line of work you need lots of takes to get it right. The biggest issue will be screening out all the background noise. Everything from traffic, birds chirping, refrigerator, computer fan etc... Then because hard walls yield bad sound you'll need to build a mini sound booth, to isolate and enhance your voice.

The equipment you need isn't that expensive and is as follows:
1) mini sound booth
2) large diaphragm mic
3) pop filter
4) mic pre amp (Art Tube)

You could also use your car as a recording studio and get a portable digital recorder such as a Zoom H4N. Biggest advantage of a portable recorder is you can go anywhere you need to get away from the noise.

I will add my suggestions, having had to learn this from the beginning and having watched several other people learn to do their own projects.

I second the idea of using a Centrance MicPort Pro:
CEntrance Inc. | MicPort Pro USB Microphone Preamp | CE1801 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/519287-REG/CEntrance_Inc__CE1801_MicPort_Pro_USB_Microphone.html)
(read the review at the B&H link, and read the review at the link below)
REVIEW: CENTRANCE'S MICPORT PRO | Articles | Post Magazine (http://www.postmagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=&tier=4&id=93CF5F01663946D692A3B9D49EB5C0CA)

The MicPort will allow high quality recording into any computer or laptop using virtually any professional XLR microphone.

I'm not sure why you need a mixer. You can record your voice, then mix it with anything else you want inside the computer. A low-cost mixer will only degrade the quality of the recording. I don't see the need for recording two live sources at once from your description.

Another option is a portable recorder, then copy the files to the computer. They can be used anywhere and most have at least two channels. I use two MicroTracks, though there are others.

But if you are recording narration to video, it makes sense to record directly into the computer as you watch the video.

Noise is a big problem when recording into a desktop. Condenser mics usually are problematic in makeshift situations.

However, a good quality cardioid dynamic mic works well in computer recording situations. A favorite of mine are the Heil microphones. They have the PR20 UT that is only $99. (Same mic, with all the packaging, that sells for twice that and is used in many radio stations.):
Microphones, Booms, Bases, Mounts and Hardware | Heil Sound (http://www.heilsound.com/pro/products/)

Heil also makes the PR40, which is more expensive, but is popular with some top radio people.

Another standard mic that would work is the Shure SM-58.

I have a couple of Audio-Technica dynamic works that work great for recording voice-over in uncontrolled situations. I don't have this particular one, but some people like the Audio-Technica ATM41HE:
Audio Technica ATM41HE Artist Series Dynamic Microphone, just $ 1.10354e+09 (http://www.musiciansnews.com/recording/90/audio_technica_atm41he_artist_series_dynamic_.shtml)

I'm not recommending any particular mic (except maybe the Heil) except to say if recording into a computer and you don't have a perfectly controlled environment, the directional dynamic mics are worth considering.

An excellent free program for audio recording and multitrack mixing is Audacity:
Audacity: Free Audio Editor and Recorder (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/)

***********************************************
So bottom line, for the needs you specify, and the level of skill you have, and so you won't be wasting money on equipment that is unsuitable or you will quickly outgrow, I suggest the following:

MicPort Pro ($150)
Heil PR20 UT dynamic microphone ($99)
Audacity Multitrack audio program (free)

Both the MicPort and the Heil will continue to be of use, no matter what other equipment you may end up with in the future.
************************************************
One final note, there are some excellent audio interfaces for computers, and I use several. However, they are not needed for what you describe, are complicated to use at first, and are difficult to select until you get some experience and know what your needs are.

Saw this in the latest catalogue and at £23 its as cheap as chips for a quick way to plug your mic into a PC or Mac:THE T.BONE MICPLUG USB - U.K. International Cyberstore (http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_micplug_usb.htm)

I stopped by my friends house yesterday to see what he had and he told me that he plugs his mixer directly to his computer via the on board microphone jack. Then plugs his guitar, microphone etc. into the mixer and records to a program called Pro Tools. Rigged I know..

Sence he has a mixer and is able to record using simply his mixer and Pro Tools, how can we transform what he currently has for as cheep as possible? First off I suppose a sound card correct? He does have a decent Shure microphone however I don't know its dynamic range.

I like everyone's suggestions thus far however i'm not sure he will spend the money unless I have a good explaination. He sort of goes by the rule that "well it works now doesn't it?"

We do plan on building a mini sound booth no bigger than a closet. Infact, it is a closet.

Interesting - this thing looks precisely down to the last visible detail the same as the Mic Port Pro I suggested in an earlier post.

It probably is the same thing - and i like mine a lot.

Interesting - this thing looks precisely down to the last visible detail the same as the Mic Port Pro I suggested in an earlier post.

It probably is the same thing - and i like mine a lot.

It looks startingly the same, and it's about half the cost. Perhaps the AD converter is different?

In any case, I know several people using the MicPort Pro, and they are very happy with it for voice recording in a variety of situtions.

I think the one I posted only does 16 bit at 44.1/48k but that is fine for video work.

I use a Samson C01U USB Microphone and Sony Sound Forge. The mic sounds great, is sturdily built, is inexpensive, and works like a charm.

Second this, if you want to go simple and cheap, works great. We have a C01U on one of our Final Cut stations for doing VO matched to the video track, and it works very nicely. As someone else pointed out, the speaking voice is really not hard to record. There are other USB mikes now, from MXL, Rode and Blue. The really easy way to go is just plug one into your computer, fire up your audio program (Sound Forge works nicely, as Gene points out) and let 'er rip.....Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

Well like I said we already have a mixer by which we can hook our micrphones to however I'm not sure I can hook the mixer to the computer via USB or Firewire. I'll have to figure that out tomorrow. What we are trying to shoot for is making it work with what we have currently. He is able to record music as is. However I want to make sure we are doing everything right without having to buy new microhones and mixer.

what I am confused about is where the interface comes into play. Like the tutorial I was watching said, you need a good interface. But how does that differ from the mixer if you can go straight from the mixer to the computer? What my friend does is plug a cable from his mixer to the audio jacks. I understand that approach isn't exactly the best and a cheap sound card can make this alot easier.

A mixer is only needed when mixing multiple sound sources that need their volume separately adjusted. A VO is one source, your voice.

Sound Mixers - Overview (http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/mixer/intro.html)

It looks startingly the same, and it's about half the cost. Perhaps the AD converter is different?

In any case, I know several people using the MicPort Pro, and they are very happy with it for voice recording in a variety of situtions.

And just to prove that the original Centrance has done so well - no less an audio warhorse than SHURE now has their own version. Check the Markertek splash page.

I have to admit that the control layout with rotary thumb pots in a line looks a bit easier to operate than the tiny ones on my Centrance unit. I hope the phantom power button isn't as crowded either - but it certainly proves that as a proof of form factor concept, Centrance got it right the first time.

what I am confused about is where the interface comes into play. Like the tutorial I was watching said, you need a good interface. But how does that differ from the mixer if you can go straight from the mixer to the computer? What my friend does is plug a cable from his mixer to the audio jacks. I understand that approach isn't exactly the best and a cheap sound card can make this alot easier.
The "interface" is what takes the analog sound and converts it to a digital signal/file.

The sound card your friend uses is the interface. The analog mixer is plugged directly into the analog input on the sound card. Just the same as plugging a little microphone into the sound card.

So if you want to used what you have, just talk into the mic that is recording the music. If the quality of the sound is what you need, your done.

Pro Tools is a high end audio program. So you can use this to edit the sound, then put it into your video editor.

As I mentioned before, Audacity is a free multitrack sound editing program that would also work.

In your case it sounds like you need the mixer to accept the microphone. The mixer then outputs a signal that can go directly into the sound card.

The better audio "interfaces" for computers allow input of the sound into the computer in different ways. They all have analog/digital (A/D) converters (of varying quality) that output the signal in different ways: some through firewire, some through USB, some through a proprietary cable that connects to a sound card that plugs into the computer. Many of the interfaces also work as mixers, allowing multiple inputs of different kinds and levels. Many have an ADAT interface, and most have SPDIF, etc.

But in your case, the sound card in the computer is the interface and the A/D conversion takes place at the sound card. If you can already record music, you already have everything you need. Just talk into the mic instead of playing into the mic.

And just to prove that the original Centrance has done so well - no less an audio warhorse than SHURE now has their own version.

Here is the Shure version at B&H -- a dvinfo.net sponsor!
SHURE X2U | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=0&shs=SHURE+X2U&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=jsp%2FRootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=submit)
In the first case, matched with a Shure SM58 mic.

However, just like the English version, the Shure version is 16 bit.

The Centrance Micport Pro is 24 bit:
CEntrance Inc. | MicPort Pro USB Microphone Preamp | CE1801 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/519287-REG/CEntrance_Inc__CE1801_MicPort_Pro_USB_Microphone.html)

Just to add that 24 bit is great for best quality but as most video is 16 bit 48k you may be spending money you dont need to.

By the way, Vegas in spite of being a video editor is also a pretty capable multi channel audio package Of course if you already have Pro Tools you're set.

in a pinch I've used a Griffin iMic usb interface, only about $35 and sounded pretty durn good. (obviously need mixer with phantom power to use condenser mike, but with a simple xlr-mini adapter you could go direct from a dynamic mike. though that is probably not the best way. )

The better audio "interfaces" for computers allow input of the sound into the computer in different ways. They all have analog/digital (A/D) converters (of varying quality) that output the signal in different ways: some through firewire, some through USB, some through a proprietary cable that connects to a sound card that plugs into the computer. Many of the interfaces also work as mixers, allowing multiple inputs of different kinds and levels. Many have an ADAT interface, and most have SPDIF, etc.

But in your case, the sound card in the computer is the interface and the A/D conversion takes place at the sound card. If you can already record music, you already have everything you need. Just talk into the mic instead of playing into the mic.

Hey Jack Thanks for the reply. Thats the kind of explination I was fishing for :)

Well he is currently running his mixer to the onboard sound card. I'd like to get away from that because I think it is hurting the quality of recorded sound. Get a better sound card or get an interface that connects via USB? Soundcard would be the cheapest rout. I know thats not always the best rout to achieve quality but we have to make this happen on less money. However I am curious as to what an audio interface, such as a Presonus Firebox (PreSonus | FireBox Interface | FIREBOX | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=356702&is=REG&A=details&Q=)) can give us as an advantage given that we already have a mixer. The reason I ask is because I guess the interface can also act as a mixer?


Final question on this subject and we'll be underway with the recording studio.. Diffusing. We have a 12 foot square room and obviously need to put up some diffusing material but we don't just want to slap it up on the wall randomly with no idea of what we're doing. How can we get a better understanding of how to diffuse a room?

Thanks :)

Hey Jack However I am curious as to what an audio interface, such as a Presonus Firebox (PreSonus | FireBox Interface | FIREBOX | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=356702&is=REG&A=details&Q=)) can give us as an advantage given that we already have a mixer. The reason I ask is because I guess the interface can also act as a mixer?
Using the Presonus you link, you don't use a mixer. You record all the tracks into the computer. The software mixes for you.

How many microphones or other inputs are you going to record at once?

If you are doing narration it is easiest to record the voice alone, then mix whatever music or sound effects you want inside the computer.

The MicPort Pro and the similar products linked in this thread allow one microphone input, but also allow monitoring and they have phantom power for powered mics.

The Presonums has two mic inputs and 4 additional inputs, all which can be recorded as separate tracks at one time inside the computer using the supplied Cubase LE software.

The Cubase software allows you to add effects (compressor for example), mix, etc. all the tracks you want to put together.

If you are doing voice over, one of the barrel interfaces (such as the MicPort or the cheaper 16 bit Shure) is ideal. You can use it anywhere, on any computer, with any microphone. Once recorded, you can mix, add effects, etc. using any software you want, including your NLE if it has the capabilities you need, and all NLEs have basic audio capabilities and some (like Vegas) have extensive audio capabilities.

As far as sound treatment, that is a science and an art in itself. However, if you are recording voiceover, you just want to block reflections. Blankets, bookshelves, odd angled surfaces, insulation, etc. all can work in a make-shift situation. You can also build a box and but the mic in side as shown here:
portable recording studio - Google Videos (http://video.google.com/videosearch?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS330&q=portable+recording+studio&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=peNDSs7YC4fIsAPs5JWJBg&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#)

I would say there are three surprises most people discover then recording into their computers:
1. Computers are really noisy
2. Condenser mics pick up stuff you can't even hear.
3. Low sounds outside are picked up too will (which is why many condenser mics have a low-frequency roll-off switch which should usually be engaged)

One of the best "sound booths" for voice-overs when there is no money and no sound booth is the back seat of a luxury car.

The two best low-cost options for making the recording are:
1. A portable recorder that has a quality mic or you can plug one into (such as the MicroTrack recorder)
2. A laptop computer with a MicPort Pro or similar and an appropriate microphone for the recording surrounding (e.g. a good quality dynamic mic when you want the surrounding sounds blocked out because the sound recording location isn't ideal)

We will also be recording music in the same room, so multiple inputs. For voice recording there is a closet in the same room which we will line with diffusing material, run an XLR cable in there with a mic stand and a stand for a laptop so we can watch the shots and match the voice over.

I'd love to get a micport pro for the voice overs. Then we could just record straight to the laptop. But I think just running a line from the mixer into the closet/sound booth will also do the trick. If this set up doesn't work out i'll definately get a micport pro or one of those T-bone ones someone posted.

Thanks alot everyone for your help.

Cheers,
Terry.