I know the multi function ring is limiting and there are no xlr inputs and it isn't an XH-A1 but $1500 was stretching it and I didn't want to invest in SD or buy something in unknown condition off ebay.

It looks like I'm getting a $500 coupon for sonystyle.com too! =)

Good for you. Enjoy your new toy and here's how. When you get, while charging the batteries browse thru the manual and then after you can power up the camera, go thru the menus and features/functions while reading thru the manual to understand what the F/F and menus do. THEN after spending time doing that shoot some tape of familiar things. Kids pets spouse or significant other then look at it in you NLE to see if you need to make any adjustments in the menus and then do the same with the audio. Record a bunch of stuff making notes of any changes you might make in the audio set up load into your NLE and listen to it-make adjustments as needed shoot some more.
What I'm saying is learn the camera like the back of your hand so you KNOW where everything is and what it does so there's no fumbling around when shooting and THEN you'll enjoy your new toy no matter what the situation.
Have fun and enjoy!

I know you're not supposed to mix tape brands within one camera because of lube issues, but is it okay to mix one type of tape between different manufacturers DV cameras? I've got a pair of Canon ZR minidv cameras and a bunch of tapes I'd like to reuse in my new Sony.

Personally I don't feel 100% about that but I suppose it won't hurt just stay with that mfg and model of tape thru out.

Tapes are so cheap, why would you ever want to re-use one?

Don's advice about the HD1000 is right on; by learning what it can and cannot do, you will not be unpleasantly surprised or disapponted.

I'd rather use cheap tapes once than premium tapes twice. B&H has JVC MiniDV tapes for $2/ea, when you buy the three-pack. That's pretty dang cheap, and probably a better option than using any tape twice.

Tapes are so cheap, why would you ever want to re-use one?

Simply because when used, you've tested it, and (hopefully) found it to be perfect. It's 'so cheap' because there's no end of line inspection (apart from yours), and whoever heard of going on an important shoot with untested (cheap) kit?

We all reuse tape, or we'd never rewind them and play them into our PCs. I've reused premiums many times, and HDV tapes countless times. It's tough stuff, well protected by it's shell. Treat it nice and value the ones you've tested.

tom.

Every time you record or play, the tape is degraded. Eventually it will fail and you will get dropouts. There's no practical way of predicting when that will be. A tape that "tests" okay, simply because the previous recording was captured successfully without issue, does not assure that the next recording will be dropout free. I don't know of anyone that's carefully tested the reliability of premium tapes used twice (or more) vs cheap tapes used once. I'd sooner bet on cheap tape once, rather than any reused tapes.

How do you see it being degraded Robert? Mechanically? Yes, eventually it will fail, but so too will your camcorder's zoom motor, and we don't stop using that 'just in case'. That motor may well test ok but fail on the next shoot.

If you have a dirty tape path that will tend to damage delicate tape, and I'm very anti shuttling (cue and review) because of tape's vulnerability. I'd never use any tape that I hadn't broken open from its celephane wrap. Have you tried to demagnetise a DV tape? It's difficult to do, so robust is the digital signal.

But each to his own. What works for you works for you, I say.

tom.

There is physical wear on a tape, each time it's used (measurable with expensive equipment, but that's not practical). Of course you don't replace the camera (or parts like a zoom motor) each time you shoot. I didn't replace my VCR each time I wanted to record a TV show either (haven't used one in years though), but I usually used fresh tape for recording. If reusing tapes works well for you, that's great. It really is about whatever works good for you.

Personally, I've had far more issues with firewire cables causing dropouts than from any tape failing. Fortunately, just replacing the cable and recapturing usually does the trick and all is good. I've only really had serious problems with one tape in the past couple years, but I think it was probably more the camera recording heads on the way out than a problem with the tape. It was an older consumer camera that I haven't used since.

I really wish somebody would do some careful independent laboratory testing of MiniDV tapes, and publish the results. I would love to know just how reliable different brands and grades of tapes are, in relationship to each other, and also if reusing premium tape is or is not more reliable than using budget tape only once.

Next step..invest in lighting...this camera is a bitch when it comes to low lighted venues...
with lights the video is phenomenal...for the price..

Next step..invest in lighting...this camera is a bitch when it comes to low lighted venues...
with lights the video is phenomenal...for the price..

I'll do some searching on lighting tonight. I bought some halogen worklights for another video project a while back. One of them mounts well on an umbrella swivel and the largest set (2x500W) can take one of my shoot through umbrellas. It isn't the nicest setup for sure, but it works okay for me... or is that a case of me just having nothing better to compare it to?

Home Depot worklights ($99) would do just fine...

Check out our footages with the HD 1000u

Dario and Tanja- Part 2 on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/4420987)

Home Depot worklights ($99) would do just fine...

Check out our footages with the HD 1000u

Dario and Tanja- Part 2 on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/4420987)

that's a cool video, a couple questions -

how much of that is you just capturing what they're already doing and how much is you providing them direction to give you the shots you want?

also, do you do anything to dress up your work lights so they don't look like work lights? i bought some high temp black paint but haven't painted mine or added any DIY barndoors yet.

Simply because when used, you've tested it, and (hopefully) found it to be perfect.That's a bit like saying you'd rather marry a hooker than a virgin, because at least you know she's been tested.

That's a bit like saying you'd rather marry a hooker than a virgin, because at least you know she's been tested.

Well, if she gets a lot of repeat customers...

Next step..invest in lighting...this camera is a bitch when it comes to low lighted venues...
with lights the video is phenomenal...for the price..

Kren, I saw the 7th Birthday video in your Vimeo account,was that shot using the HD1000?

@Jacob - thanks, no directions from us ..just catching the moments... we try to be always aware of what's transpiring.. don't really like shooting what the photographer is doing.. as for lights no barn doors , what we got was colored black already , we only use either Bounce Sheets or Parchment paper for diffusers..(it also makes it smell nice :) Oh yeah we also use on camera Sony Lights most couples don't want to drown out the mood of the party with the worklights.

@Noel - that's correct HD1000u certified..

I know the multi function ring is limiting and there are no xlr inputs and it isn't an XH-A1 but $1500 was stretching it and I didn't want to invest in SD or buy something in unknown condition off ebay.

It looks like I'm getting a $500 coupon for sonystyle.com too! =)

Congrats on your purchase. I really like my 1000U but would highly recommend you invest in an on-cam HD monitor 7 inches or greater to really push it. Lighting is a good idea but often customers will balk at large or overly bright set-ups. A monitor you can use every time you shoot... Good luck and happy shooting!

That's a bit like saying you'd rather marry a hooker than a virgin, because at least you know she's been tested.

That's quite a stretch there Adam.

But since the tape would have already have been "tested" by the same person who was re-using the tape, I think that person could make the argument that he knew what he could expect from the tape because he had already "tested" it once... the second time ought to be just as good.

Jeff

Okay, let me get this straight. We should only marry a hooker we've "tested" personally?

One more question, hookers aside, a friend of mine has a cheap car dvd player with a slave screen I could use. It just has audio left/right and the single yellow video in (composite?). I'd really like a Marshal HD monitor with peaking and false color, etc. but I need to pay off the HD1000 first... would a (relatively) low resolution 7" LCD from a DVD player offer any benefit for focusing over the HD1000's stock LCD and eyepiece?

I think that person could make the argument that he knew what he could expect from the tape because he had already "tested" it once... the second time ought to be just as good.Not to belabor this, really, but that is just preposterous, because each and every use degrades the tape further and dramatically increases the chance of a dropout or mechanical problem. The very act of "testing" it makes it *less* reliable.

Jacob,

Here's a different set of lights that isn't rugged professional, but are pretty effective if you don't need to control the light (no barn doors, just flood the area):

AIM Studio Professional Photo Light Kit w/ 8 26W 5500k Daylight Balance Light Bulbs $129.99 Deal - Best Price Cheap Sale Items Review Wholesale Sale Discount (http://www.techbargains.com/news_displayItem.cfm/165852)

I have purchased 3 sets of them. They are lightweight, reliable, and more presentable that work lights. Eventually you'll want to get some nice lights with some type of rolling carrier, but you'll probably be spending north of $2,000 for anything approaching professional. $129 is a bargain.

One more question, hookers aside, a friend of mine has a cheap car dvd player with a slave screen I could use. It just has audio left/right and the single yellow video in (composite?). I'd really like a Marshal HD monitor with peaking and false color, etc. but I need to pay off the HD1000 first... would a (relatively) low resolution 7" LCD from a DVD player offer any benefit for focusing over the HD1000's stock LCD and eyepiece?

The resolution of the HD1000 LCD is only 123k pixels, so compare that to the pixel count on the LCD from the DVD player. It's probably pretty close, but a larger screen does help too.

One thing I'd like to know, is how Sony figures the HD1000 is "professional camcorder", yet the FX1000 is merely an "advanced amateur camcorder" (their exact terms used on the Sony Style site). Where's the logic in that one?

One thing I'd like to know, is how Sony figures the HD1000 is "professional camcorder", yet the FX1000 is merely an "advanced amateur camcorder" (their exact terms used on the Sony Style site). Where's the logic in that one?

Keep in mind that the FX1000 has a "professional" counterpart, the Z5. While the HD1000 is all by itself, yes it's built on one of their consumer cameras, but the body alone defines it as a professional camera.

If they position the FX1000 as a "professional" camera it be competing with the Z5 and the V1U.

each and every use degrades the tape further and dramatically increases the chance of a dropout or mechanical problem. The very act of "testing" it makes it *less* reliable.

This is correct Adam (though I'd question your adjective 'dramatically'), but applies to all the mechanical things you own - your toaster, your car's gearbox, your front door lock. Testing them starts to wear them out, but you'd not trust any of them until you'd tested them that first time, would you?

The original design intent for Mini DV back in the mid 90s (pre NLE systems) was to record in the 12 bit mode, rewind countless times, audio dub, rewind, record tape to tape using cue and review, pause record, stop, start and so on.

This is tough on the little tape, but as I say, that was the design intent. Nowadays we treat tape gently. One rewind, one play into the computer. And I am living proof that such use doesn't, 'dramatically increases the chance of a dropout'.

Onwards, good people.

tom.

...a friend of mine has a cheap car dvd player with a slave screen I could use. It just has audio left/right and the single yellow video in (composite?). I'd really like a Marshal HD monitor with peaking and false color, etc. but I need to pay off the HD1000 first... would a (relatively) low resolution 7" LCD from a DVD player offer any benefit for focusing over the HD1000's stock LCD and eyepiece?

I would guesstimate there would be some improvement but not much. The benefit in this scenario would be seeing it separate from all the feedback icons and slightly larger. I have an Ikan V8000HD and I can tell you that when i hook up with s-video, it is better but to get the real advantage I need to be hooked up via component to get the true HDV signal. Now Ikan has the v8000 with HDMI. Also you might check the thread on here about the "smallHD" monitor. The price point is incredible for the feature set.

Marshall is great but the pricepoint is often difficult for me to swallow...

...but the body alone defines it as a professional camera.

You can put lipstick on a pig...

I'm not trying to knock the HD1000, yet I don't really consider it a "professional" quality camcorder either. I do find it amusing how we can be so influenced by superficial appearances. If I were to hire someone to shoot video for me (like in the extremely unlikely event I were to get married ...even to a hooker!), I don't care if the cameras look like toys and say "Mattel" on them, so long as they indeed shoot premium quality video.

Robert, I have indeed gotten professional quality results out of my HD1000U. It does not have the flexibility of some of the more expensive cams out there but under the right conditions and in the right hands it does get great results. I would say it is squarely prosumer and could be considered a low-end professional model, but is a far cry from consumer. And while the body is a nice touch for event work, we all know it is the results that matter.

I don't care if the cameras look like toys and say "Mattel" on them, so long as they indeed shoot premium quality video.

Robert,
What quality do you consider the HD1000 video to be?. I have one HD1000. I consider it to be very capable of shooting very high quality video. It can't be fairly compared to a 2/3" chip studio camera but it does a great job despite 50% of its volume being made up of air.

Would I buy another? Probably not. But would I recommend it to someone that wants the professional looking form-factor at an affordable price? Yes. I've noticed here and at other sites, the HD1000 gets snubbed. That doesn't faze me though. Virtually every job I do with it enables me to buy another new one if I wanted to. My clients are happy with the results. And despite being 50% air, it impresses the client.

It may be lipstick on a pig to some (although the HC7 isn't really a pig), but the client is willing to pay me extra because I put the lipstick on the pig. And that works for me. It ain't about reality. It's all about perception.

Jeff

Its the person and not the camera...i've seen some better videos shot on a $300 (walmart) video camera compared to someone with Fx1000 or XL2

I find that when one goes to extremes in any direction, that reality is closer to center. Yes the person behind the camera is the biggest piece in the puzzle but the equipment does make a difference. If it didn't matter, why would you upgrade at all?

I have gotten great results out of my HD1000U. Recently, I got a job that the former vendor used a JVC GY-DV5100 (http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/press_res.jsp?model_id=MDL101526&feature_id=02) . One might argue that this is because I am comparing an HDV camera to an SD camera but the delivery was DVD so the final output was the same resolution. Was the only difference me? I don't think so. It was a combination of my style, commitment to quality workmanship, and my equipment. So we have a $1600 HDV camera going toe to toe with a JVC $6000 camera ( JVC | GY-DV5100L17 at B&H online (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/401787-REG/JVC_GYDV5100L17_GY_DV5100L17_Professional_DV_Camcorder.html#specifications) ). Does the client care about the price of my equipment or the quality of my work?

Back to my (incredibly) hypothetical wedding (to a woman without virtue or otherwise)...

I wouldn't hire somebody to shoot my wedding (unless it was outdoors perhaps) and (especially) the reception with an HD1000. The low-light performance just isn't there. Skill can't change the laws of physics. (I'd also want progressive video.)


It may be lipstick on a pig to some (although the HC7 isn't really a pig)...


An HC7 isn't a bad consumer camera at all, but I wouldn't hire someone to shoot my wedding and reception with it either.

Back to my (incredibly) hypothetical wedding (to a woman without virtue or otherwise)...

I wouldn't hire somebody to shoot my wedding (unless it was outdoors perhaps) and (especially) the reception with an HD1000. The low-light performance just isn't there. Skill can't change the laws of physics. (I'd also want progressive video.)



An HC7 isn't a bad consumer camera at all, but I wouldn't hire someone to shoot my wedding and reception with it either.

yeah but do couples REALLY ask you about your equipment? In the last 15 years I've had very few and in the last 8 years I've had 1 ask about my gear. It's been my experience that they don't seem to care - they've seen my work and expect their wedding to be of the same quality as the other work of mine they've seen.
Corporate clients on the other hand DO ask, far more often than not and they really aren't asking. They're telling me they want SD or HD, 16:9 or 4:3 tape or not, most are pretty specific but brides and grooms, no.

I watched a horrible wedding dvd with a friend the other day. It opened with a photo montage with the worst powerpoint type transitions you can imagine, twice per photo: photo1, transition A to photo1, transition B to photo2, transition C to photo2 again and so on with a different transition every time.

The ceremony was shot with one camera on a tripod with constant, uncoordinated zooms and pans, hunting for shots like a drunken sailor. No editing, no cuts, just one long dizzying take.

The entire time though, my friend was excitedly pointing out who each person was, telling me stories about the family and events from the wedding day that weren't caught on tape. She didn't care about the terrible videography, video noise, long boring shots of obviously bored people waiting in the church, etc. She was just happy to have her family on DVD.

It seems to me like there are plenty of couples with truly limited budgets who would be thrilled to have an attentive amateur videographer with an HD1000 deliver the best service they can within the limits of the hardware they have.

Recently I hired a 2nd op to shot a (professionally lit mind you) musical with me. He is very good and shoots with a SONY EX1. Here are 2 comparison images. One is from my HD1000U and the other is from the EX1. These are raw captures from my timeline which I have not altered. Do you see the difference here? Does it justify the price point difference? Which is which?

Wow, very nice shots, and they make your point nicely. My *guess* is it's the EX1 on the right simply because it looks a little less noisy, but frankly I'd be proud to have either shot in one of my videos. I doubt you'd notice any difference unless you were watching it on BD on a huge screen.

my guess is hd1000 on the right because there are some halos around the whites when you magnify it and the colors look a little more neutral on the left.

so which one is which?

The EX1 looks to be on the left. They're reasonably close in the good lighting (and focus appears slightly soft to me, which tends to equalize image quality). Drop the lighting down to what you'd have available in a typical older church or at a wedding reception though, and the difference in image quality would be unmistakable.

I'm really not trying to knock the HD1000. I'm sure you can get great images, just like my HV20 can shoot stunning images ...under the right conditions. I wouldn't consider an HV20, transplanted into a shoulder mount casing, a professional grade camera either though. I have some low cost wrenches from Walmart in my toolbox, that I indeed fix my car with, but I'd only be using Snap-on wrenches if I worked as a professional mechanic 40 hours a week.

I have survived for 2 years shooting with a Panasonic DVC 7, single CCD camera before moving to a 3 chip camera. Not 1 complaint from the Bride & Groom, a Groom once asked me if I shoot with a 3CCD, I said yes but he never saw difference. My point is I have to 2nd Brad, with the right person an HD1000U could do wonders.

Okay I am justifying the HD1000U vs. FX7 purchase I am planning for next year. With almost $900 PRICE difference I am leaning towards the HD1000U, with $ 900 extra I can buy MicroPanel Light & a Glide Cam.

yeah but do couples REALLY ask you about your equipment? In the last 15 years I've had very few and in the last 8 years I've had 1 ask about my gear. It's been my experience that they don't seem to care - they've seen my work and expect their wedding to be of the same quality as the other work of mine they've seen.
Corporate clients on the other hand DO ask, far more often than not and they really aren't asking. They're telling me they want SD or HD, 16:9 or 4:3 tape or not, most are pretty specific but brides and grooms, no.

That's a point well taken, and really a sad commentary. I was once considering doing weddings, but it appears that there just isn't much demand for quality wedding video, nor much willingness to pay for it. It amazes me that many couples put a high value on stills, but don't seem to care hardly at all about the video.

I have survived for 2 years shooting with a Panasonic DVC 7, single CCD camera before moving to a 3 chip camera. Not 1 complaint from the Bride & Groom, a Groom once asked me if I shoot with a 3CCD, I said yes but he never saw difference. My point is I have to 2nd Brad, with the right person an HD1000U could do wonders.

Okay I am justifying the HD1000U vs. FX7 purchase I am planning for next year. With almost $900 PRICE difference I am leaning towards the HD1000U, with $ 900 extra I can buy MicroPanel Light & a Glide Cam.

Can you get an HD1000 for $1100 nowadays? (FX7s list for $2000 now.) You might consider a used FX1. They're getting dang cheap on the used market nowadays.

What was the real difference? Experience and an external monitor. My colleague was brought in to shoot one act of one show on short notice. He mentioned to me that he had not used that cam in over 3 months while we were chatting (he has an EX3 he shoots with more frequently.) I, on the other hand, had shot 2 days of dress rehearsal and 3 days of live production. I knew the lighting cues and what to watch for. I was monitoring on an IKAN v8000HD and could see what my image looked like without having to guess through the forest of feedback icons on the camera LCD. My image (the one on the right) is more accurate to what was really happening both in color and tone. The "haloing" mentioned above, I see it on some of the girls hairpieces but those are actually gold and silver sequins reflecting stage light. If you want to see more close-up shots, I have several on my website from this event. You can find them at Stage Screenshot Gallery 01:: The Video Professional (http://www.thevideoprofessional.com/stage/stage_screensht_gal01.html)
...I doubt you'd notice any difference unless you were watching it on BD on a huge screen.
Unfortunately this is far from true. I edited in HD and tested on a 42"1080p TV and there was a huge difference between the EX1 shots and HD1000U shots. Again though, I attribute this to the monitor and my familiarity with the show at that point. My shots were much more consistent.
...Drop the lighting down to what you'd have available in a typical older church or at a wedding reception though, and the difference in image quality would be unmistakable.
I have not tested this, though I do have several shot comparisons with a PD170 and HD1000U in that type of environment and again, until you get down to extreme low lighting, shot for shot the HD1000U gets better images in my opinion. This camera is not equal to the 170 in extreme low light, no question but neither are most cameras on the market for the last 10 yrs. But in general, with moderate light to full sun, I will take the images out of this camera to the bank.
I'm really not trying to knock the HD1000....
It really sounds like you are. Perhaps we are misunderstanding your points.
...I'm sure you can get great images, just like my HV20 can shoot stunning images ...under the right conditions. I wouldn't consider an HV20, transplanted into a shoulder mount casing, a professional grade camera either though...
True, and neither would I. (...edit...) The HV20 doesn't have nearly the same amount of manual control as the HD10000U. If they took the HV20 and put it in a shoulder mount and added more manual control then I would consider it but it would depend on what kind of results I could get out of it. Again, it is my opinion that the HD1000U is a prosumer camera but the lack of a manual gain control and separate iris control make it a stretch to be a serious contender as a mainstream professional camera. It is not a consumer camera.
...I have some low cost wrenches from Walmart in my toolbox, that I indeed fix my car with, but I'd only be using Snap-on wrenches if I worked as a professional mechanic 40 hours a week.
And why is that? Do you get better results with a snap-on wrench? No. Both of them can tighten a nut just as well. The difference is if you used the cheapo wal-mart wrenches they will break more frequently and need replacing. The quality of the product is not made for pro-usage and over the course of time it will be more expensive to replace cheap-o walmart wrenches then it would be to buy snap-on wrenches.
...I was once considering doing weddings, but it appears that there just isn't much demand for quality wedding video, nor much willingness to pay for it. It amazes me that many couples put a high value on stills, but don't seem to care hardly at all about the video.
There are two big issues here. First, your statement implies that you don't even shoot these events while most of the people responding to you do. If you won't consider the point of the person doing the job then why bother. yet you are still taking potshots at the users of these cameras implying that we don't get "quality video" or "professional results" because we choose to thread the needle of the narrow margin that is wedding video in a suppressed economy. The second part of your statement is the bane of every wedding videographer on the planet. So if you don't do weddings than what is your basis for your statements? I am trying to understand why you are so hard on this camera being used in a market you don't work in.
Can you get an HD1000 for $1100 nowadays? (FX7s list for $2000 now.) You might consider a used FX1. They're getting dang cheap on the used market nowadays.
FWIW the HD1000U is running around $1600 these days from most vendors.

The HV20 is a single chip CCD camera...

The HV20 has a single 1/2.7" CMOS sensor.

Jeff

My image (the one on the right) is more accurate ... So if I'm understanding you correctly, my guess was both right and wrong. I did think the one on the right was "better" but I wrongly assumed that the better image would necessarily be from the EX1. Interesting.

Actually, I worked as a mechanic at a VW dealership, for a short time, years and years ago. Yes, the durability of the tools is a big deal, but the precision craftsmanship of the tools is also quite important. Try using a cheapy and then a Snap-on ratchet wrench. There's a considerable difference. You'll get more work done in a day, with less hassle, with the Snap-on. Obviously, there's a difference between cameras and wrenches. The point is, that there is a difference between pro caliber tools and tools you can make do with. The professional mechanic at your local garage could fix your car with wrenches from Walmart, but he doesn't (and would refuse to do so). You won't see HD1000s being used by your local news station either.

I'm aware that the low margins on weddings make it awfully tough to justify the costs of pro caliber production equipment, while squeaking out a reasonable living. That's why I decided not to do it. Essentially, the demand (or lack there of) for wedding video is astonishingly weak, apparently because couples just really don't give a rip about getting a quality video of their wedding, and the market only really supports what is analogous to back yard mechanics.

I'm not trying to knock the HD1000, and I don't knock anyone for shooting weddings with it (especially on the ridiculous margins the market will bear), but that doesn't make it a professional quality camera in my mind, anymore than guys doing mechanic work in their back yards with Walmart tools, to earn a few bucks (on slim margins also), makes those tools professional quality (and I don't knock backyard mechanics for using cheap tools either - heck, I've paid good back yard mechanics to fix my car, using tools that aren't professional caliber).

As Jeff mentioned, the HV20 uses a CMOS chip. I think most folks here would much prefer to use CCD to shoot weddings though, because of rolling shutter issues with still camera flashes.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, my guess was both right and wrong. I did think the one on the right was "better" but I wrongly assumed that the better image would necessarily be from the EX1. Interesting.

Blow those image up, like you would see it on a typical 50" or larger living room HDTV.