Hi all,
I am using outdated equipment trying to make current. I am captureing thru a Dazzle Hollywood DV Bridge using an older Hi8 Hitachi. This works fine as I can capture using WMM, Nero and WinDV to a 500GB Hard Drive. I am new to the editing world and will be updating equipment by years end but for now I need to know what format to burn my captures in. I have read that it is better to edit in avi then transcode to mpeg2 and to burn that for final but do I burn the originals to DVD in a movie format or in a data format. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

Just a couple thoughts:

I would cut it to an avi, Make a master copy of original footage and save it on two different drives. then you can always return to original footage.

I would edit and then render to mpeg2 and burn the dvd.

Oh yea, save the folder with your project on two different drives if you want to archive it.

I'm likely going to be working on a very similar project very soon. Some 8mm as well as VHS home videos that would go onto DVD.

I was wondering if there would be a noticable loss in quality if they were captured in MPEG2 rather than DV in order to save hard drive space. Is this a case where the quality isn't there to begin with, so working with full quality DV captures would be pointless, or would using MPEG compression add digital artifacts and such to further reduce already poor quality footage?

Thanks,
Greg

If your goal is simply to save the old footage onto DVD, then skip the DV/AVI part.

But if you intend to edit/correct, then go the AVI way.

For right now I want to get my master files digitized. When creating a burn project on Nero, it gives me the option to make a movie on DVD or make a Data disc. That was probably the more accurate question to ask. When I go to burn the original AVI, should it be burned as a movie or data? I understand there will be compression and that the DATA disc will not be playable in a DVD player, only a computer

When you make a data dvd it should only be copying your oringinal avi so there should be no compression involved. This is what you want if you plan on editing the footage later. The big question is are your avi files small enough to fit on a dvd, ie did you capture short clips or the whole tape in one clip?

Gordon

A 120 minute tape is almost 25Gb, so how do you save that to disc?

As Gordon asked, do you only copy short clips, or the whole tape?

I am doing this as I write this, on another computer, only 59 more 8mm tapes to go. Then there are the VHS and Beta tapes to do!

I am doing as Dale mentioned, and have been for some time, with no issues.

I capture with Premiere, edit, render to mpeg2, use encore to create my menus and final render, then use Nero to burn the final DVD.

I have been doing it this way for years, and never had any issues.

If you have a set top DVD recorder, that has Firewire input, plug the Dazzle into that, and go straight to DVD, no editing. Just remember to finalize the disc, or you wont be able to play it anywhere, but on the unit that recorded it.

Blank single layer 25GB Blu-Ray disks (BD-R) can be purchased for as little as $3/ea now (in spindles of 25). That's the perfect size for 2 hours of DV footage.

If you want to store footage for future editing, but get each tape onto a single layer DVD disk (dirt cheap), you could use h264 to compress the footage. 2 hours of footage at 4mbps will fit on a single layer DVD. Using a codec like x264 (freeware, and an excellent implementation of h264), you can achieve dang close to visually lossless compression with SD footage, at 4mbps. To edit later, you could convert to an intermediate codec (like Cineform or Canopus HQ) for speed, but with CPUs getting ever more powerful, in a few years a new computer could likely handle the SD h264 footage like butter anyway.

If anyone wants to use x264 to archive SD footage for future editing, I'd be happy to offer some suggestions/more info on compression settings (x264 is very robust with compression options).

If you want to store footage for future editing, but get each tape onto a single layer DVD disk (dirt cheap), you could use h264 to compress the footage. 2 hours of footage at 4mbps will fit on a single layer DVD. Using a codec like x264 (freeware, and an excellent implementation of h264), you can achieve dang close to visually lossless compression with SD footage, at 4mbps. To edit later, you could convert to an intermediate codec (like Cineform or Canopus HQ) for speed, but with CPUs getting ever more powerful, in a few years a new computer could likely handle the SD h264 footage like butter anyway.

If anyone wants to use x264 to archive SD footage for future editing, I'd be happy to offer some suggestions/more info on compression settings (x264 is very robust with compression options).

DVD (Taiyo Yuden) is very cheap. I would use a stand alone DVD recorder to capture video in highest quality (60 min per disc). So later I can edit the mpeg2 file or convert to avi file.

I capture using WinDv, a Dazzle unit and my Hitachi analog video cam. The WinDv is set to capture 40,000 frames which is 4.73gb and 22 minutes and 14 seconds. Just so I could look at these. I was able to burn two of these 4.73gb files on one DVD in mpeg2. The disc says it took up 2.91gb.
1) I want to archive properly and the best way possible to be able to revisit the masters
in the future if need be
2) I have a lot of old Hi8, 8mm and VHS tapes I want to digitize

I have a minor working knowledge of how this all works together but I think I am missing the fundamentals. I do thank you for the direction you have pointed me to take but if there is a "BEGIN HERE" post, I would surely use it. Thanks again

If it was me I would just back up your avi files as they are if you plan on editing it later. Everytime you recompress your files I think you will take a hit in quality which sure won't help you with 8mm and vhs footage.

Gordon

I will start there Gordan. Thanks a ton Mike

To anyone considering digitizing Hi8 or VHS, who hasn't already purchased a video capture device:

The best way I know of to digitize old tape footage, is with an old Digi8 camcorder (easy to find used, and cheap). For Hi8, simply attach the camcorder to your computer (via firewire) and play the tape in the camcorder while capturing with your favorite DV capture utility (WinDV is a good one - and free). For VHS, simply connect a VCR deck to the camcorder, via composite or s-video, and capture out the firewire port the same way.

....with the caveat that not all Dig8 cams will play Hi8. Make sure yours does. I made this mistake a while ago.

....with the caveat that not all Dig8 cams will play Hi8. Make sure yours does. I made this mistake a while ago.

Yep, that's true. There were a lot of different models made over the years, but only a percentage of them were "backwards compatible" in that they had the ability to play back the analogue cassettes. I believe the last backwards compatible model that Sony made was the TRV-480, and I think that has probably been out of production for at least 4 years. They also made the lower numbered 380 and 280 I think around that time, but I don't think either of those models were backwards compatible.

-Jon

Exactly. I bought the 280 to do this without carefully reading the specs, and only later found out that it and the 380 wouldn't play Hi8, only the 480 and above.

If you want to store footage for future editing, but get each tape onto a single layer DVD disk (dirt cheap), you could use h264 to compress the footage. 2 hours of footage at 4mbps will fit on a single layer DVD. Using a codec like x264 (freeware, and an excellent implementation of h264), you can achieve dang close to visually lossless compression with SD footage, at 4mbps. To edit later, you could convert to an intermediate codec (like Cineform or Canopus HQ) for speed, but with CPUs getting ever more powerful, in a few years a new computer could likely handle the SD h264 footage like butter anyway.

If anyone wants to use x264 to archive SD footage for future editing, I'd be happy to offer some suggestions/more info on compression settings (x264 is very robust with compression options).

Robert, I'm glad I saw your post. This is what I've been thinking about. In fact, it seems like the only practical approach to consumer video archival - I don't know why there are not most postings or similar advise online or even from the video product company web sites. People need a good solution. I have Hi8 footage that I'm planning on loading onto my PC using a Sony GV-D200 player via a DV connection. I was planning on saving as DV Type 2 Native and then burning a conventional DVD and a h.264 DVD. (Saving the 27GB DV files to a 1TB+ disk drive seems unreliable for long term storage, and saving to Blu Ray would cost me over $700). Does all this make sense? Exactly what h.264 format would be best? Can you think of any better approach for reliably archiving home videos with maximum quality for future possible editing and reasonable cost?

--scott

If it was me I would just back up your avi files as they are if you plan on editing it later. Everytime you recompress your files I think you will take a hit in quality which sure won't help you with 8mm and vhs footage.

Gordon

Gordon, I'm doing the same thing, but I don't know a practical way to do as you suggest. One could backup 20 or 30 tapes at ~25GB per video to a 1TB or larger disk drive, but, these drives don't have a very long life, and I've seen lots of posts about failures with these drives. One could use BluRay, but to buy a drive and enough disks for a 30 videos and 30 backups, that is easily over $550. As a consequence, I'm leaning toward Robert's proposal of using h.264 to fit what I can for each video onto one DVD each for archival. Any other ideas?

--scott