Make that Macbook (not pro!)

You heard it here first! Replacing the express card slot. Makes sense.
Will be a nice field companion for the JVC cams.
This is the 15" macbook (not PRO) starting from under $1200 with built in battery announced today. Configure up to 3.06GHz Intel Dual Core processor with 6MB Level 2 Cache & up to 8gb RAM.

Oh Yeah! Do I hear edit in the field?

WOW! Sony won't be happy about that (just like Panasonic wasn't happy when the ExpressCard was introduced with Macbook Pro, replacing PCMCIA.)

The thing is, what about the Expresscard I/O adapters (like AJA are making) that now won't be compatible? Will there be some other high-speed interface?

EDIT: I just read that the 17" model will retain the ExpressCard slot. Even the 13" Macbook will have the SDHC slot, which is now apparently also called a Macbook Pro.

In my opinion that is a BAD thing. You can always get a SDHC Card reader for your express card slot... heck you can get one that will read any card. But, now you can't use the express card slot for things like ESATA, extra firewire or usb buses, blackmagic or aja devices, etc. I think it was a step backward.

In my opinion that is a BAD thing. You can always get a SDHC Card reader for your express card slot... heck you can get one that will read any card. But, now you can't use the express card slot for things like ESATA, extra firewire or usb buses, blackmagic or aja devices, etc. I think it was a step backward.

I agree 100%. What are they thinking? USB reader works just fine for .mov files. That leaves EX1 and 3 users without support in the future.

my bad - Tim D - if you can edit the title of my post- it was a typo.

Yes this is the 13" macbook (which is effectively a macbook pro now, with FW800, integrated battery, better graphics/speed etc etc) The unibody.
The nomenclature is still a bit unclear - I guess only the plastic model will be a non "pro" model?

Bottom line, awesome little machines for $1200.

Andrew - the macbook pro 17" retains the expresscard slot. Makes sense.
The macbooks had NO slots before.

Bottom line, awesome little machines for $1200.

Andrew - the macbook pro 17" retains the expresscard slot. Makes sense.
The macbooks had NO slots before.

They were also 300 bucks cheaper. So in essence they are eliminating MacBook line all together forcing people to pay $1200 minimum. I am sure a lot of college kids will be super happy about that.

I agree 100%. What are they thinking? USB reader works just fine for .mov files. That leaves EX1 and 3 users without support in the future.

stuff 'em if they can't take a joke! They can go back to their own forum section. Or, if they're smart. simply use the adapter to shoot on SDHC. I'll get you started if you pay me the difference in card cost...

Seriously, you'll simply get a firewire or usb reader for express cards if you need that - or stiock wioth the 17". But don't expect it to last forever....

It's a much smaller audience than those that use cheap SDHC cards.
SDHC cards are getting faster (new classes are being announced) and error correcting.

They are ubiquitous in digital SLRs and as non-proprietary efficient designs, they deserve to be built-in.

In my opinion that is a BAD thing. You can always get a SDHC Card reader for your express card slot... heck you can get one that will read any card. But, now you can't use the express card slot for things like ESATA, extra firewire or usb buses, blackmagic or aja devices, etc. I think it was a step backward.

I agree Andrew. I can't figure out why they left ExpressCard off the 15". Maybe they know something about powered-bus esata? Maybe they are banking on USB 3.0 for high throughput applications? They must have statistics on the use of ExpressCard to back up that decision, but its going to alienate moblie pros that use the bus for eSATA drives or EVDO. This does make the fact that firewire was left off the MacBook make sense now though. I'm just trying to figure out why they think the ExpressCard is obsolete. They wouldn't trash it for no reason. Its only a 5 year old technology, and if you really want an SDHC card reader in that space buy an ExpressCard version...

Seriously, you'll simply get a firewire or usb reader for express cards if you need that...

No such option exists.

*Edit* - I think I see what you mean. You're saying get a reader for SxS cards. That use for the ExpressCard bus constitutes an extremely small fraction of the total applications for the slot.

Sort of O.T.: I wonder what sort of speed the SDHC slot will offer? USB 2.0 speed? ExpressCard speed?

They were also 300 bucks cheaper. So in essence they are eliminating MacBook line all together forcing people to pay $1200 minimum. I am sure a lot of college kids will be super happy about that.

Actually, not so Robert. The plastic recently updated (2 weeks ago?) macbook is still $999 (less at resellers).
The unibody 13.3" mac laptop has dropped $100 in price with SIGNIFICANT upgrades across the line. SDHC reader and firewire were previously unavailable on a mac at this price. It's a small screen, but also very light and very fully featured.

I'll be getting one of the first, having just cancelled an order for the previous generation. I'm really buzzed about having the built-in card reader for the JVC and Nikon D90, plus firewire for fast external drive or options like the aja i/o, and a much extended battery life -- for $100 less! Plus little performance bumps.

Given the body/screen/specs, the name change makes sense.

Those that need the express card reader do need the 17" instead of the 15" now - or tie up the camera instead of continuing to shoot, which MOST people can do. But for the majority of users, these are extremely positive updates.

You can always grab a reduced price express card 15" macpro at a discount if that's important to you. But IMHO it's going the way of the P2 cards (had a G4 powerbook that read those, but luckily only shot a few weeks with the HVX200 which I disliked.

No such option exists.

*Edit* - I think I see what you mean. You're saying get a reader for SxS cards. That use for the ExpressCard bus constitutes an extremely small fraction of the total applications for the slot.

Sort of O.T.: I wonder what sort of speed the SDHC slot will offer? USB 2.0 speed? ExpressCard speed?

Won't this work with an SxS card? ($20)
SIIG, Inc. : USB to ExpressCard - (JU-EP0012-S1 ) (http://www.siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=JU-EP0012-S1)
IF it works will be slower than the old solution, I expect.

My expectation is that this will be a full speed SDHC slot interface in the new macpro, as opposed to most card readers which lag. I expect it will be hardwired to the board. Even USB 2.0 could be a bottleneck as we move to class 10 SDHC cards.

Next jump is to 50mbps XDCAM HD!?

The keynote speech has been posted at Apple - QuickTime - Apple WWDC Keynote Address (http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/0906paowdnv/event/index.html?internal=ijalrmacu)

Won't this work with an SxS card? ($20)
SIIG, Inc. : USB to ExpressCard - (JU-EP0012-S1 ) (http://www.siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=JU-EP0012-S1)
IF it works will be slower than the old solution, I expect.


Yes, but I have no need for SxS. I've based my storage on eSATA and own two MacBook Pros, each with eSATA ExpressCards that are putting out 70-80 MB/sec from a single drive. I also have ExpressCards for Firewire 800, EVDO and the Matrox MXO mini. Its still hard to believe that Apple would cut the only really multi-use port on anything but the 17". But like I said - they usually make up for drastic changes like this in some way. I just wish they'd be more forthcoming about future options for people that will be left without options and useless hardware.

I agree Andrew. I can't figure out why they left ExpressCard off the 15". Maybe they know something about powered-bus esata? Maybe they are banking on USB 3.0 for high throughput applications? They must have statistics on the use of ExpressCard to back up that decision, but its going to alienate moblie pros that use the bus for eSATA drives or EVDO. This does make the fact that firewire was left off the MacBook make sense now though. I'm just trying to figure out why they think the ExpressCard is obsolete. They wouldn't trash it for no reason. Its only a 5 year old technology, and if you really want an SDHC card reader in that space buy an ExpressCard version...

During the keynote Phil Schiller said that less than 1% of the Macbook Pro customer base actually used the ExpressCard slot, and that sector was restricted to the very "high-end" professional. That's why they left the ExpressCard slot on the 17", which is considered the best model.
Look at how much the prices have dropped for the Macbook Pro. I wonder how much of that has to do with dropping Expresscard?
SDHC is used on such a wide variety of DSLRs and video cameras that the decision actually does make sense to me.

I'm glad I got the 15" when I did, the 17" is too large for my liking. Surely expresscard support isn't too expensive, a lot of cheapo laptops have it and it is far more flexible than an SD port. Even if you don't plan on using it, sometimes you still want the option.

I am glad I don't have to worry about this for a bit. I just purchased 15" MacBook Pro a couple of months ago, so I am not going to upgrade for at least a couple of years. However this is kind of bad for any RAID users and people who are EX1/3 and potential buyers of Matrox Mini.

I like MACS, I have a 20inch IMAC. I like PC's, have a quad core Gateway.

But on the notebook side it is hard for me to justify the cost difference.

I can get an HP 18 inch with a 500 gig hard drive, media card reader, 512mb Nvidia,
an eSATA connector, express card slot, firewire, 4 Gig of ram all on a Quad Core processor for $1750.

vs. more than $2,500 for a less featured Macbook Pro.

I don't understand why Apple insists on cutting out features and charging more for its notebook line.

Hi Tim,

...decision actually does make sense to me.

Apple always seems to be ahead of the curve on hardware adoption - FW400, Gigabit Ethernet and FW800 being just a few examples. But this decision really doesn't make any sense to me. Save for the 17" option, which if history is a guide will follow the path of the 15" eventually, it limits the available options but also restricts innovation for new products that can take advantage of the ExpressCard interface's bandwidth. And how ironic is it that this is announced today?

Electronista | PCMCIA introduces ExpressCard Standard 2.0 (http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/06/09/expresscard.standard.2/)

Hi Tim,



Apple always seems to be ahead of the curve on hardware adoption - FW400, Gigabit Ethernet and FW800 being just a few examples. But this decision really doesn't make any sense to me. Save for the 17" option, which if history is a guide will follow the path of the 15" eventually, it limits the available options but also restricts innovation for new products that can take advantage of the ExpressCard interface's bandwidth. And how ironic is it that this is announced today?

Electronista | PCMCIA introduces ExpressCard Standard 2.0 (http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/06/09/expresscard.standard.2/)

Well what about ESATA or HDMI or quad core or Bluray? Sure Apple was ahead of the game when firewire first came out but they haven't really changed since then. Other then making a nice looking unibody case they haven't changed their form factor in many years. The Imac is still more or less the same. The Mac Pro uses the same case since the G5. The Mac book pros are for the most part unchanged except for the aluminum case and slightly faster cpus. If Apple was so innovative where are the quad core laptops? Where is ESATA? Where are the mid range quad core desktops? I'm sure at least the Imac could have a quad core option.

Apples products either use laptop based motherboards and cpus/gpus or server class motherboards and cpus/gpus. Where is the desktop class products which are much cheaper and perform right in the middle? Yes they have a quad core Mac Pro but that is server based which is pointless for something that could be done exactly the same with desktop parts. If somebody says its because desktop parts are of lower quality then what about the Mac Mini and Imac? Those are desktops that use laptop parts. There any many rock solid desktop class parts that would blow away quality control on any laptop parts.

Apple's new innovation is reserved just for looks and battery power which I will say is very impressive.

Well what about ESATA or HDMI or quad core or Bluray?


I'd love all those features, but eliminating the ExpressCard slot is not a step in that direction.

They are ubiquitous in digital SLRs and as non-proprietary efficient designs, they deserve to be built-in.

BTW it won't do much for your DSLR as both Nikon and Canon use CF not SD cards.

BTW it won't do much for your DSLR as both Nikon and Canon use CF not SD cards.

It depends on the model. Nikon & Canon have switched to SDHC cards for their low-end DSLR line (Nikon D5000, D90, D80, D60, D40 & Canon Digital Rebel XSi, T1i, XS with the SDHC option on 1D MkIII) but retains CF in the D300/700 and 5D MkII range. Professional photogs want the sturdiest media possible and that is still considered to be CF.

I think it is fair to say that as of 2009 SD/SDHC is dominating as the most popular flash format among consumer digital still and video cameras. It isn't as rugged as CF, Expresscard, PCMCIA, etc., but it sure is small, cheap, and available almost anywhere!

Tim, you are right. I was referring to to the upper end models only. However most professional photographers will not be shooting with Nikon D40 or or even 90. Apple historically always targeted pro-photographers and pro-videographers and pro-sound, rather then general public. I think recently there was a shift. As the result we can see some of the pro-support slowly going away or at least decreasing (like lack of BD).

On Apple's website they list the specs for the SD slot and it runs up to 240 mbits/s. That seems kind of slow for an integrated SD slot. Wouldn't a USB2 connected device actually run faster? They do not however mention if that bandwidth is shared with the USB2 ports.

Apple historically always targeted pro-photographers and pro-videographers and pro-sound, rather then general public. I think recently there was a shift. As the result we can see some of the pro-support slowly going away or at least decreasing (like lack of BD).
They obviously want to grab a larger percentage of the consumer market. I don't think they'll ever totally forget the professionals... we're the ones that kept Apple alive during the dark times.
BD support? I too am anxiously awaiting the reveal or release of FCS3 (could be NAB2010 for all we know) but in the meantime have conceded that Adobe Encore CS4 is a reasonable alternative to DVDSP. I just wish it had scripting.

Tim I did not only DVDSP and the lack of ability to author BD. I also mean by this statement I can't watch BD movies on my laptop. Within the same price range a lot of laptops have an option of at least BD playback ability.
I think Apple puts out a good product, but it seems to me that by catering to a broader range of customers they stop paying as much attention to their die hard supporters.

Thats what bootcamp is for. I have read a lot of people using Windows through bootcamp to watch Blu-ray movies with an extrernal blu-ray drive. They even used a display port to HDMI adapter to feed the signal with HDCP to a HDTV.

In a way Apple's simple solution to not being able to do something with software is to use Bootcamp. I would love 3D Studio Max support under Apple but I know I will never see it but bootcamping it works great.

Tim, you are right. I was referring to to the upper end models only. However most professional photographers will not be shooting with Nikon D40 or or even 90. Apple historically always targeted pro-photographers and pro-videographers and pro-sound, rather then general public. I think recently there was a shift. As the result we can see some of the pro-support slowly going away or at least decreasing (like lack of BD).
It's a D90 I have (did mention that)- uses SDHC cards. Does 720p video in low light you know.... 12mp and I've got some decent glass ( 10.5mm - 500mm!), I also use it for intervalometer programmed shooting. In the end having a card reader isn't a big deal, but I'm all over this, since I was looking at the previous 13.3" model without any card reader or firewire. Maybe some people will feel burnt at the 15" level, but I'm sure this is the right thing for most of the market. If you are dealing with esata raid and hardware video, the 17" is probably your first choice anyway. I'm very happy to see continued support for firewire. Isn't there a new spec coming that's right up there with SATA? FW800 is a great interface for all kinds of advanced devices. I like the idea that I could ramp to a Aja i/o HD on my little 13" macbook if needed. These are great value starting at under $1200.

Generally, I think mac laptops represent some of their better hardware value. You can't just compare the bolt on components which are cheap in themselves. It's the build quality, and tight integration through intensive functional design (not just a pretty face!).
I know people who've bought them mostly to run windows (not that I would suggest it).

Meanwhile, the macpro is a pricy affair. I bought a prior generation when I had to upgrade, since the equivalent current version would have been nearly double. I am thinking of trying a BD drive now that they are only $150, but encore and toast seem like the only games in town. I was kind of hoping to hear about playback support in Snow LEOPARD, since the the whole DCP thing has to be supported at the OS level. I think current mac video cards are all ready.

D90 is not accepted by most of stock agencies. A lot of other commercial clients will not pay for pictures shot on anything below D200 (D300 now). Stripping meta data in photoshop will not work as well, as they will simply refuse to even look at it. If you shoot weddings you might be fine, but good luck trying to sell the stills to even a mid range client.
I agree, Apple makes a really good product. However IMO recently they started "dumbing it down" as far as the support. I am also happy they keep firewire port. I think they have a really good software as well.
These are just my opinions, I am sure a lot of other users have different needs. I know Apple reads boards like this and this is my voice and my concerns as far as the range of support and features.

D90 is not accepted by most of stock agencies. A lot of other commercial clients will not pay for pictures shot on anything below D200 (D300 now). Stripping meta data in photoshop will not work as well, as they will simply refuse to even look at it. If you shoot weddings you might be fine, but good luck trying to sell the stills to even a mid range client.
I agree, Apple makes a really good product. However IMO recently they started "dumbing it down" as far as the support. I am also happy they keep firewire port. I think they have a really good software as well.
These are just my opinions, I am sure a lot of other users have different needs. I know Apple reads boards like this and this is my voice and my concerns as far as the range of support and features.

Respectfully Robert, you are out of line here. The d90 images will have no problem passing requirements at most stock agencies. It's far superior to the top of the line cameras from just a few years back. They are 12mp and definitely superior to the d200. It's the same chip as the d300. Getty's requirements are image size and quality based, However, in the end, like most of this industry it's the content that counts. I've published full page images in coffee table sized books, and several magazines taken with the far inferior d70, and have still images on Corbis and sold to Reuters, even though still photography is a small part of my income these days. Compact flash may even be retired over time (actually that's what my old d70 shot!). I'd be quite happy to have more universal standards here and elsewhere, and sdhc is looking very strong..

But perhaps more importantly, I already specified that VIDEO on the d90 was a factor - it has some flaws, but also some special abilities that complement the HM700 (low light, special lenses, intervalometer etc). Also I use stills in motion graphics or otherwise integrated into multimedia work. Video is my main business, and also what this forum is about. I can share SDHC cards with the HM700 and d90, read them quickly and conveniently with a compact full featured laptop. For HM700 users (that's where this post is), this is a good thing.

Also, I noted that it's the 13" that is the new model. This model drops $100, adds FW800 and the SDHC port and a long life battery. There is nothing not to like about this change (unless you don't trust the new battery technology).

For the 15" model, there may be some inconvenienced by this one form factor not being available with the express card, but it's hardly a big deal, and the improvements elsewhere are worth of consideration. May this be the worst thing that that happens to you this year.

My only concern about the battery is that I usually use my laptops plugged in at work or at home. I do use them on the go sometimes but most of the time it is my computer on my desk at work. I talked to an "expert" at the Apple store and asked about how to deal with the lifespan of a battery if I can't remove it during the week when it is plugged in 100% of the time. He quickly pointed me to the Apple battery care website and walked away. I asked another person and they said to always use just the battery and when it gets low plug it in and charge it. Once it is charged unplug it and run off the battery until it gets low again. Rinse and repeat. While this may work it seems as though I would quickly use up my 1000 charges for the life of the battery. Now with a conventional battery I may only use it on the weekends which means it could end up lasting longer.

Has anybody used their built in battery in this manner and how did you deal with it for desktop work?