I have an EX1 and a 16gb and 8gb cards.

I have a 2.5 hour life performance I have to shoot.

I can probably get another 16gb and 8bg gig SxS cards.

But I was wondering how much time will I save if I record in 720p compared to 1080p.

Thanks

In my humble opinion, I'd never shoot anything less than full raster 1920x1080, downscaling to 720 in camera looks horrible in comparison, more like SD than HD.

rent beg or borrow some cards asap!!

Paul

There have been many discussions regarding how to get the best results if SD DVD is the final product.

Several have argued that shooting 720p will produce a better SD DVD because less down conversion is required. And others argue differently. None of the threads have reached a definitive conclusion yet.

If it means anything I plan to shoot a dance recital in about a week using 720p instead of 1280i to see how it works out. I understand that the interlacing can pose some problems with certain NLE software in terms of mixing up the field order.

John

But I was wondering how much time will I save if I record in 720p compared to 1080p.
Thanks

Nothing. No time savings.
The file sizes of 720P and 1080P are essentially equal.

If you can't get more cards, consider shooting with one of the SP modes because that WILL get you extra time on each card. The difference in quality might be negligible for a live performance.

Hmm.. I have no SP modes on my EX3 - but I use 720P and downconvert in the NLE to SD. I do not think that the camera does a horrible downconwert from the Cmos 1080P to 720P.
The compression will be smaller in 720P than in 1080P - maybe that does a different. I have not been able to do a usable downconvert from any HD - interlaced format. I suggest a progressive format - if you want 720P or 1080P I would suggest a test by yourself, what you like...

Hmm.. I have no SP modes on my EX3 .

Yes you do.

SP 1080 / 60i
SP 1080 / 24P
SP 1080 / 50i

The SP modes record at a constant 25 Mbs/sec. bit rate, and the HQ modes record at a 35 Mbs/sec. variable rate. The result is that you can fit more data on a card with the SP modes.

720 vs. 1080 won't make any difference in how much data can fit on a card, but SP vs. HQ will.

Buy MxR adaptor and 2 Transcend 32GB SDHC Class 6 cards. You will be able to record nearly 4 hours straight through in HQ mode.

I think you want to think about framerates first then resolution.

If you need or want 60 frames a second then you have to shoot 720p to get that and stay progressive.

If you do not want 24 or 30 frames a second, then you will not want to shoot 1080p

For me I shoot everything in 720/50p if it is for SD DVD.
I find the downconversion sharp through FCP/Compressor.
I have tried all other formats with the EX1 and this works.
You wont save anytime with changing formats.

Personally, I would render MPEG2 intended for DVD as interlaced.

That will give it greater compatibility with both progressive DVD players that will combine the fields into a single frame and send them to a progressive HDTV and also a PC with any decent software DVD player.

But as I said, you will have to be careful your NLE doesn't mix up the field order.

John

I dont believe you will gain any time shooting 720p vs 1080p - they are both 35mbps. You can shoot XDCAM standard quality and just about make it. I know that sucks but I think it will be alright. In terms of 720p looking worse out of the camera versus 1080p, I've had great results with both and would argue that I lose the noise and noticeably less artifacting in 720p. I just shot a music video this weekend which had a ton of overcranking so I went 90% of the whole shoot staying put in 720p HQ

... I shoot a similar event on a theater about 2 months ago with my EX3.... 30 fps, 1080p...

Made excelent looking SD-DVDs (mixing with SD close up cameras) and HD-BluRay files (only EX3 scenes) that looks STUNNING on a Bravia LCD through an WD-media player !!

...the 1080p files are the advantage over 720 for BluRay quality....

good luck

The secret advantage to shooting 1080 if you are cutting in SD or even if you are cutting 720 is that you can push into the shot without any loss in quality, so it is like giving yourself another side by side close up camera all the time. This can save your butt.

I thought the 1080p Blu-ray spec was for 24p only. I don't think you can put a 1080p30 framerate on a BD, but I might be wrong.

If I am right, unless you shoot 24p, then 1080 does not help you much with Blu-ray.

I thought the 1080p Blu-ray spec was for 24p only. I don't think you can put a 1080p30 framerate on a BD, but I might be wrong.

If I am right, unless you shoot 24p, then 1080 does not help you much with Blu-ray.

It can also be 1080 60i/50i:
Blu-ray Disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc)

1080p30 can be easily converted to 1080i60...

Several have argued that shooting 720p will produce a better SD DVD because less down conversion is required. And others argue differently. None of the threads have reached a definitive conclusion yet.
I think there has been a conclusion, but there are a few complications.

Main one is what sort of motion is needed - "film-look" (24-25fps), or "fluid motion" (50-60fps).

If the former, it's easy - shoot 1080p/25, there should be no argument. For the second, the choices are 720p/50 or 1080i/25, and I think the concensus is that if the SD DVD is the primary product, 720p/50 is better, because each progressive frame produces a unique SD field. Start off with 1080i/25 and it first has to be de-interlaced before downconversion - never a good idea - you cannot simply derive each SD field from the corresponding HD field.

If the HD version is the primary product, and fluid motion is desired, there may be a strong argument for 1080i/25, but then it's likely the SD version will be somewhat compromised compared to if the starting point had been 720p/50.

The future lies with 1080p/50, and all arguments should then go away...... :-)

arghh... Sorry read and wrote it as SD and not SP - What I meant was that I have no SD modes on my ex-3...
I have tried with 720-50p also and I guess different NLE's does different downconvert to 50i - Premiere CS3 does not make a proper downconvert to 50i from 50p format - my experience is that 25p to 50 i makes a better downconvert in premiere but maybe it has to do with the settings.....

For SD you want either 50i or 25P. There is no standard 50P SD format which might be why Premiere is struggling.

As David says roll on 1080/50P... but sadly it's still going to be a couple of years at leat before it becomes common place.

Premiere CS3 does not make a proper downconvert to 50i from 50p format -
My comments were meant generally, not for specific NLEs. But HD 50p *SHOULD* downconvert well to SD i25. There's a 1:1 releationship between the input HD frames and the output SD fields.
..........my experience is that 25p to 50 i makes a better downconvert in premiere but maybe it has to do with the settings.....
But 25p has film look motion (or "jerky", depending on point of view). A 50i (i25 in the new standard - the EBU decrees the numbers should always refer to frames) system indicates fluid motion, which a 25p starting point can never give.

IMHO you should always shoot 1080p and downconvert later. Shoot 720p for slow motion and for scenes where you want to capture high speed motion. Otherwise shoot 1080p. To achieve 60p in 720 the camera is shooting at exactly half vertical resolution, so it isn't downconverting from 1080p to get 720p it is converting to 1280x720 from 1920x540.

I think that a final SD product will always look better when starting from the high resolution possible.

IMHO you should always shoot 1080p and downconvert later. Shoot 720p for slow motion and for scenes where you want to capture high speed motion. Otherwise shoot 1080p. To achieve 60p in 720 the camera is shooting at exactly half vertical resolution, so it isn't downconverting from 1080p to get 720p it is converting to 1280x720 from 1920x540.

I think that a final SD product will always look better when starting from the high resolution possible.

Great answer Andy. Particularly on how the imager shoots the 720 60p. I never realized that. I wish they made it a little quicker to jump between formats and speeds in the menus when you are seriously under the gun though.

[QUOTE=Andy Shipsides;1155414]IMHO you should always shoot 1080p and downconvert later. /QUOTE]

While we can all agree more resolution is great, but the word always is a bit strong in this context.

What if the project looks best with the smooth motion of 60p?

1080i and 1080p are not the same thing. I prefer to shoot 720p60 over 1080i for the progressive frame handling if the slower framerates do not match the project style.

To achieve 60p in 720 the camera is shooting at exactly half vertical resolution, so it isn't downconverting from 1080p to get 720p it is converting to 1280x720 from 1920x540.
I think you may be confusing cameras, Andy, if you're referring to the EX?

The best tests I've seen on the EX are from the BBC R&D department - see http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP034_ADD30-rev1-Sony-PMW-EX1-and-EX3.pdf .

Most relevant to this discussion are the zone plates and discussion on page 16, and it becomes clear that the 720p must be derived from 1920x1080, not 1920x540, as the vertical resolution is well over 540 AFTER downconversion.
Vertically, things are a little better, there is a smooth progression into extinction at 680 and virtually no aliasing. Therefore, the downconversion appears to be a little asymmetric, but in an acceptable way.
It's also worth noting what the BBC say about deriving SD from the EX:
There is no standard definition recording mode in the EX1. However, it records at 1280x720p in HQ mode (35Mb/s), and this mode is interesting because it represents the best way to get a standard definition picture from the camera. If recordings are made at 1080 interlaced, then the down-converter (external) will have to de-interlace in order to produce the output fields, while recording at 1080 progressive may not give the look the user wants (jerky motion). .............

and.........

Clearly, a subsequent down-conversion to standard definition from this format should be the best route to take. It is highly unusual to see such good downconversion in a camcorder.