Hi all:

Not sure how many of you have ponied up the bucks for the Singh Ray Vari ND filter? Singh-Ray Filters: Vari-ND Variable Neutral Density Filter (http://www.singh-ray.com/varind.html)
I did and used it for the first time today. I must say that this filter is a revelation and I am wondering why I have not heard more about people raving about it with the 5D. I shot in bright late afternoon sun with the 5D MKII and a Nikon 50mm 1.4 AI lens. I used a 52mm to 77mm step up ring to attach the Vari ND to the lens.

I will go so far as to say that having this filter ALMOST negates the need to have manual controls. Put the filter on the 5D MKII, point the camera at whatever you are going to shoot. What's that, it is giving me a crazy 1/1500th of a second shutter speed? No problem, just dial down the Vari ND until I got what I wanted which was 1/60th and ISO 100. Begin to shoot. I am following a subject that goes from nuclear daylight to a patio that drops the light levels way down.

This is the kicker, as I track the subject, the Vari ND is functioning like a manual iris control. It is smooth, it is repeatable and I don't even need to mess with the clicky exposure compensation dial on the back of the camera. Brilliant! Genius! It is right on the lens barrel next to the focus ring, just like on a real broadcast lens. This is even better than my HPX170 as far as tracking and quickly tweaking exposure. The only thing I am missing are zebras but with the Z-Finder, so far judging exposure is right on. WYSIWYG.

I am officially blown away, this works great. I can get the exposure I need in any situation in about 5 seconds. Of course, the Vari ND is not needed for interiors but for exteriors or super bright windows as BGs on interiors, this thing is magic.

Most expensive filter I have ever bought at close to U.S. $400.00 but well worth it. This will make my 5D life so much easier. Looking forward to a firmware update but if it never comes, this still makes the camera VERY usable for my needs. So count me as a fan of this filter. All you people pissing and moaning about a firmware update, buy this, it puts you 90% of the way there.

Dan

Sounds great for outdoor work. I think the price explains why you don't hear more about it.

So how does it differ from two polarizers? Or does it?

Dan,

Welcome to the world of variable ND. I can't believe so few people use them either.

John,

As far as I understand it the vari-ND is 2 high quality circular polarizers placed back to back. In fact this is what I use instead because I was put off by the price of the Singh-ray version. That said I will probably pick up the Singh-ray one next time I travel to the US just for the sake of convenience. There is also a cheaper chinese variable ND filter here in China but I haven't tried it yet.

Dan

I also use two polarizing filter back-to-back. Works great with no distortion. Try it and save.

I agree that the vari-nd is well worth the price..... it's thin enough to use wide lenses.... and it just works as promised.

They work great... I got the Vari-ND Filter which has the polarizer included with the ND's...

It a little harder to work with as you have to work with two rotating rings versus the single
ring on the non polarized version..

both are very good...

as to the price... I took an inventory of all my lenses and noted the filter diameter of each...

then I purchased step rings to fit the lenses that did not have the correct filter size so I could
use the vari-nd on as many lenses as I could...

if you compare any other filter system and add the cost of 8 full stops of ND plus a polarizer
then the Vari--ND is not a bad price afterall.... plus it does work with most of my lenses..

Ray:

My same exact justification for the price. Look at all of the filter diameters of the lenses you will be using and then price out two or three regular NDs for each and you will quickly find that the price of Singh Ray is very reasonable considering it is really eight filters or so in one.

I am a big believer that in our business, if you want to have tools that allow you to freely create and realize your vision, sometimes you have to spend a lot of money. P2 cards for instance. A Letus setup was another. They are expensive but they let me realize my vision, which is great. And considering what I paid for my BVWD600 back in 2000, this stuff is a ridiculously cheap and much more capable.

The 5D MKII is cheap for what it does, but add three or four good lenses, the Vari ND, the Z-Finder, a good shoulder mount bracket, etc. and you are edging into EX1/EX3 territory as far as price. But for what it allows you to do, having the correct tools for the 5D MKII is essential.

Dan

Dan,

I just re-read your report & noticed that you were are using a Nikon lens so presumably already have manual aperture control. Are you using the variable filter to just give a final tweak to the camera settings i.e. setting the aperture manually & then dialling the filter to give the ISO/shutter combination you want?

Another question, what is the range of movement from zero to maximum? With my home-brew two polarising filter set-up there is as expected 90 degrees from the filters being in parallel letting through maximum light to 90 degrees when they are crossed. Is the Singh-Ray the same?

Cheers

Nigel

Yes to all of your questions.

Yes, I used it today to shoot at a music festival. Jam sessions all over an old west town in blasting daylight. Some musicians in full daylight, some in shadow right next to them. The Singh Ray functions essentially like a manual aperture. I dial it on to land the ISO shutter where I want them (usually ISO 100 and shutter 1/60th) then adjust exposure once I have locked exposure. It really works quite well, I was pretty happy with the results from today. It was about as difficult of a lighting/exposure situation as you could hope for, and the 5D MKII with the Singh Ray were pretty usable.

Yes, the exposure range is about 90 degrees although to get what I want as far as exposure, I was rotating the Vari ND with my pinky while focusing with my thumb and index at the same time just like I would do on a broadcast camera. That's what I am really digging about this, the muscle memory from shooting so many years with broadcast lenses is still there.

Dan

Sounds like a winner Dan. Any chance of seeing a few stills or even some vid showing the results of your exploits at the festival?

Cheers

Avey

Hi Wayne:

Yes, I am actually compressing the clips right now for editing. I have been using DVC ProHD rather than Pro Res as the files are only slightly larger than the originals versus six times the space for Pro Res.

I will try to put together a little montage of clips tonight. If I want to post to Vimeo though, it is going to look stuttery right? (30p chopped to 24p by Vimeo?). So should I put it on YouTube HD or ?

Dan

Nah, stick it on Vimeo Dan and I'll download it. Great stuff looking forward to it.

I've been coding my files as XDCAM HD which makes similar size files to the Raw files and the picture looks almost identical. I tried ProRes and my MacBookPro couldn't cope with it, kept telling me my graphics card wasn't up to the job so I ditched that idea in the end,

Avey

has anyone tried this filter...

Singh-Ray Vari-N-Duo Polarizing Variable Neutral Density Filter (http://www.singh-ray.com/varinduo.html)

the Singh Vari-N-Duo adds the LB Warming polarizer to...

Singh-Ray Filters: Vari-ND Variable Neutral Density Filter (http://www.singh-ray.com/varind.html)

...the Vari-Nd....

and costs $50 more...

dont forget the Fader ND.. almost the same quality (its been said!) at a much lower price

Light Craft Workshop - Fader ND adjustable ND filter (ND2~400) (http://www.lightcraftworkshop.com/site/page1000.aspx)

We just got a pair of Fader NDs for the 58mm lenses and already had the Singh Ray for the L glass.

The Fader ND is nicely made and works wonderfully as does the SR.

I've been building a whole second system lately for this springs projects, everything from an all LED lighting kit to new shoulder mount system, VF, the Fader NDs and smaller EF lenses...all kinds of stuff that is intentionally light and small for travel and remote work.

Hopefully I can do a little review of it all but for now the Fader ND gets a big thumbs up.

A wonderful advantage of the variable ND concept that I think gets lost with it's shallow DOF use, is it's equal importance in action work.

It's very cool to dial in the f/stop you need for deeper field and moving subjects, and then just grab the ND and rotate it till you get the exposure you want.

Variable NDs have literally changed the way we shoot.

I was reading a story on FreshDV and saw an ad for Genus. Something caught my eye and here is what I found.

Genus ND Fader Filter 77mm (http://www.genusproducts.com/servlet/the-86/filter-fader-nd-genus/Detail)

Less than half the price of a SR. I haven't heard any reviews or feedback but it sure looks similar.

That Genus filter looks Exactly like my Fader ND from lightcraft. Which works like a dream BTW.

Some have reported, and I have noticed, that when using the Fader ND at longer focal lengths the image becomes quite soft.

This can be verified by zooming in to 10x magnification.

I wonder if the Singh Ray is any different in this regard?

We haven't shot enough with the Fader ND that I could confirm or deny that. I think you're going to get some cross hatching as you push the filter on either or any variable ND.

What I am comfortable saying based on our experience with the SR and Fader NDS Is that I'm not seeing any loss in IQ. That jibes with what I read from Phillip Bloom, who's opinion I value, that (paraphrasing) he didn't see any degradation in footage he shot with them.

I guess the other point would be, how long are the longer focal lengths you'r referencing?
We don't shoot anything longer than 300mm with the 5DII and really shoot mostly between 24mm and 135mm, but I'll make a point of shooting some stuff with the 300mm to see.

Jim
I'd be glad of your findings (or anyone else's) in respect of image softening on the Vari-NDs . I have noticed distinct softening on a cheaper vari ND and am looking to upgrade either to the Lightcraft or the Singh-Ray, Before I drop a few hundred dollars on it, I'd like to know about softness and maybe colour cast?


Many thanks

I bought the 77mm and a bunch of step rings and I can now fit it on any lens I have. There is no softening, and no significant color casting from it. Buy and cry once, rather than cry every time you have to use a hacked solution.

I'm with Steev on this. My world has been torn between music production and a lot of commercial work that hasn't required the Fader NDs that much lately, but it's an invaluable tool in the field and well worth it from a cost/quality standpoint.

I'm increasingly impressed with how well some small niche entrepreneurs have developed their products and QC and customer relations. People like Richard Andrewski at Cool Lights comes to mind and countless others from Red Rock etc. I guess my point is that some of these small bizes rise above the all too frequent low grade stuff coming on the market from China -point being that there's some really good stuff coming from there if it's developed and manufactured properly.

I've been doing a lot of buying and testing of LED lights in the process of building full studio and location packages. A whole other story that hopefully I can do a review of when I get a break, but there are small companies (many existing because of direct marketing through forums like this) that have top notch gear as good or better than the majors and at amazingly better prices. Fader ND is IMO one of them.

I did some testing on the fader ND after reading about the softness issue and it is very obvious that on a long lens ( anything over 40 or so but very pronounced at 100mm ) there is severe softening with the cheaper fader ND. You can see this just looking at x5 & x10 mag. However, testing through 2 decent quality polas looked fine so that's prob why the Singh-Ray is expensive. Advantage of the 1 piece unit is size and being able to work on a wide angle without vignetting. I've taken apart my fader ND and replaced the outside 82mm with a tiffen glass but haven't figured out yet how to get the first filter off so I can replace that. (I figured I already had $100 into the fader ND so it was cheaper to fix than buy a new Singh-Ray.
By the way its a linear pola on top of a circular, not 2 circulars. The latter will have much more blue bleed in the blacks. The other blue- gold filter is 2 circulars - kind of a cool idea also.

I agree its a great tool especially for shooting b roll where you need to adapt quickly.

Lenny Levy

Oops, I don't know if there's confusion now. I didn't specify which product I was referring to. I bought the Singh Ray. I have no experience with the others.

Singh-Ray Filters: Vari-ND Variable Neutral Density Filter (http://www.singh-ray.com/varind.html)

Vari-ND Filter 77mm - 77mm Standard Ring Mount

I did some testing on the fader ND after reading about the softness issue and it is very obvious that on a long lens ( anything over 40 or so but very pronounced at 100mm ) there is severe softening with the cheaper fader ND.

The Fader ND is being fazed out by the new Fader ND Mark 2.. according to the info:

"The mark II version offers a solution on the loss of sharpness when using it with tele lens (70mm or above)."

Costs a little more but not much, no idea if it does what it says on the tin or not!

Thanks for all your helps guys.

I did some testing over the weekend re no filter, static 4ND and the cheaper fader ND I got from Hong Kong. Deifnitely serious softening of the image and some slight colour casting (coolish) Not good.

I read a while ago on here somewhere that the Lightcraft was pretty much as good as the Singh Ray so I was considering that one and now the MkII is available, I read they have been addressing slight softness in the MkI so I've ordered a MkII will let you all know how it does.

I certainly couldn't be worse than the Hong Kong one which makes shot pretty much unusable,

Just done a little testing my 5D2 and 70-200 2.8 L with the new MkII Light Craft Fader ND and think it's still a little softer than when not using a filter at all. Perhaps that's obvious to everyone, I don't know. I was hoping it would be as pin sharp as the lens usually is with out an ND.

I would say it is better by quite a bit than the cheaper one I got from a dealer in Hong Kong, but whether it's as sharp as the Singh Ray, I haven't been able to test.

Apart from that, I would say that these fader NDs are lovely things to work with in an outdoor situation, very versatile, fast to use and give one a sense of real control when working fast.

Just ordered my Light Craft Workshop 77mm FaderND Filter - Mk II from Premiere Ink & Photographic in the UK, but they are out of stock at the moment. The MK II is allegedly supposed to be much improved.

There are a lot of imitations around, so try to buy from a reputable dealer.

a numer of people have tested the Mark II and not been impressed still soft on long lenses. I am curious about the Genus because they say they use glass filters and it might be possible to do a decent one for their price. Not for $100 though

FWIW I had the MK II on a 24-105 from recent filming and got a last minute call to do a magazine ad shoot. It was outdoor, golden hour, three subjects and changing light. So I decided to leave it on and got a series of really nice images for the campaign.

I had two crew with bounces and shot pretty much the whole focal range a lot of it toward or at 105mm. Stills for critical use is a pretty good way to judge IQ and it was outstanding at 3744 x 5616. The only stuff not really sharp were my missing focus while moving.

One important thing with it is the subtle, unique quality that it imparts to images. I've used it a lot on indoor TV spots with controlled lighting for that quality. It reminds me of the look we used to love using the Mini 35 on big HD cameras.

Anyway, the client thought the selects had a 60's Life Magazine look.

HEy all, thanks for the info.
I bought the Genus Variable ND and found that it is unusable at the longer focal lengths. I suspect the Singh Ray may also have trouble at 270 mm-but perhaps less. The Genus creates a totally distorted image.
IF you find a review with comparison of the filters side by side, I'd love to see it before I buy the SR.

That said, I will plan on using the Genus on the wide to mid ranges, as I did not perceive significant distortion. It would be good to know if the SR is worth the significantly higher price.