DigitalCinemaSociety.com Video (http://www.digitalcinemasociety.org/Popup.php?video=CanonDV_NAB09.mov)

I'm sorry if anyone has already posted this video but it is interesting if you are crossing your fingers for a firmware upgrade. A Canon representative at NAB is interviewed and towards the end of the clip answers a question about 24p and aperture. He says we're working on it and we are trying to see what we can do for THIS camera and for cameras in the future.

Here's the exact quote from the video:

"...we're taking both of those features very seriously and seeing what we can do to this camera and, and, obviously in future product as well."

So, rather than "working" on it, it's more of a "looking" at it.

IMHO, having worked with photographic and electronic manufacturers on many different levels for the past few decades, for every week that has gone by without a firmware update exponentially reduces the percentage chance that Canon will ever issue one. How long has the 5D MKII been out?

It really is looking the 5D MKIII or a video camera or a twice as expensive 1D incarnation will likely be the camera that delivers these features. It's almost May guys. But who knows? We live in strange and unprecedented times.

Dan

I don't doubt there will be firmware update(s) but ones that will unlock the crippled video capability....doubtful. It's not in their best interest to make this cam up to snuff, even if they can. They can simply "unlock" those features in a mkIII iteration and automatically gain a great deal of perceived value for the "new" product.

They do this thing with electronics, computers, even automobiles. I was blown away when I took my stock turbo down-pipe off my STi to see that it was a solid mass with a small hole going through it. That way when the next year's model comes out they can bore it out a few cm and advertise/leverage the "new" power the most current model is making compared to the old.

Here's the exact quote from the video:

"...we're taking both of those features very seriously and seeing what we can do to this camera and, and, obviously in future product as well."What else did anyone expect him to say? It's a perfect example of a bland corporate statement that doesn't promise anything but doesn't rule anything out either.

...It's not in their best interest to make this cam up to snuff, even if they can...Except for two things: many of the people who care are buying Nikon lenses, and it's of little use in PAL countries, except for on the web.

If I were them, I'd at least make the aperture controllable on Canon lenses. The camera already supports manual aperture control, if you think about it, just not with their own products.

They do this thing with electronics, computers, even automobiles. I was blown away when I took my stock turbo down-pipe off my STi to see that it was a solid mass with a small hole going through it. That way when the next year's model comes out they can bore it out a few cm and advertise/leverage the "new" power the most current model is making compared to the old.

Yea, and they will certainly charge for it too. As I said before, as long as the MKII sells like candy, why would Canon fix something that isn't really broken, especially when Nikon hasn't come up with anything that's even remotely as hot as the (crippled) MKII?!

I seriously doubt we'll ever see any firmware fix for the MKII, but instead, down the pipe, will get a new model (a MKIII or something) that will obviously cost more but also do more (i.e., manual controls).

I bet Canon used the added video feature on the MKII as a marketing-probe, and now they know quite well what people want. Hence, I'm waiting for their next model.

-- peer

Nikon have openly addressed the issue, Panasonic knew what they were doing from the off.... and Canon "might" look into it for this model, but likely will mark up a new cam instead.

I can't wait to get away from Canon. The 5DII was might first purchase from them and will be my last....

Nikon have openly addressed the issue, Panasonic knew what they were doing from the off.... and Canon "might" look into it for this model, but likely will mark up a new cam instead.

I can't wait to get away from Canon. The 5DII was might first purchase from them and will be my last....

I've made the jump to Panny from Canon before... and within a year was back to Canon. Panasonic may always be first with the tech and toys, but Canon rarely ever loses in the image quality department.

I bet Canon used the added video feature on the MKII as a marketing-probe, and now they know quite well what people want. Hence, I'm waiting for their next model.


You are going to be waiting 2-3 years at least for a 5DmkIII. At least one more for 1 1DmkIV

Nikon have openly addressed the issue, Panasonic knew what they were doing from the off.... and Canon "might" look into it for this model, but likely will mark up a new cam instead.

I can't wait to get away from Canon. The 5DII was might first purchase from them and will be my last....

Let me know when you want to sell yours!

You are going to be waiting 2-3 years at least for a 5DmkIII. At least one more for 1 1DmkIV

Yeah I thought the same thing. The original 5D was around for years before the mkII hit. I'd venture to guess a bonified video camera with similar attributes as the 5D will appear before a mkIII. However this is only speculation.

If nikon does it with their cams Canon is going to do it with the 5d II. As I mentioned in another thread the whole video function on the 5d II was a reaction to the d90's video.

Let me know when you want to sell yours!

I'll PM you the minute Nikon come up with a Full Frame 24p, manual solution.... wonder if you will still be interested ;-)

I'll PM you the minute Nikon come up with a Full Frame 24p, manual solution.... wonder if you will still be interested ;-)

I guarantee someone else will though. If Nikon delivers, that's probably when I'd sell the 5DMkII and grab the Nikon. I've got a ton of glass for it.

I guarantee someone else will though. If Nikon delivers, that's probably when I'd sell the 5DMkII and grab the Nikon. I've got a ton of glass for it.

I love my Canon, but I'd jump ship too, for a uncrippled quality camera. I have no 'brand loyalty.' My devotion lies in the ease of workflow and quality of product.

That being said, PLEASE, CANON, Improve my workflow and keep the quality. Reward your customer base for trusting you.

I'm getting quite the stock of Nikon lenses. It won't make sense to stay with Canon if Nikon comes out with a nice video-DSLR.

Uncrippling the 5D as it is now would help push sales of an already existing model even further. What's wrong with that? Heck, they could even charge for the uncrippling, thus generating extra revenue between product cycles. That way they maximize R&D return for the current product cycle and then in a couple of years they can come up with an even better product. I think there's enough room for improvement to sell a better model down the line. Auto focus, less aliasing, less rolling shutter, more sensitivity, less noise, more dynamic range, faster frame rates, movie mode histogram, higher bit rate video, more megapixels, higher res video, etc...

JMHO.

Which nikon lenses do you have? the older ones? have you even checked if you would need an adapter for those too?

You are going to be waiting 2-3 years at least for a 5DmkIII.

I beg to differ -- I doubt it will even take half of that time. Remember, it took Canon just 5 months to upgrade their 1D MKIII to a 1Ds MKIII. How quickly we forget ;^)

-- peer

...it took Canon just 5 months to upgrade their 1D MKIII to a 1Ds MKIII.

Was the "s" a hardware upgrade, or just firmware? In fact, what was the change?

From what I understand, Canon normally upgrades their EOS bodies every two to three years. I could be wrong though. I'm new to the DSLR market. (Note to Canon, without the video feature I wouldn't have spent more than $500 on an SLR body. In fact, I probably would have spent zero. I simply wasn't in the market. That said, I used to have an AE-1, and then a Rebel.)

The 1D and 1Ds are different lines of product. 1D is built for high burst speed and is 1.3 crop factor. 1Ds is the flagship camera with a full frame sensor (It used to be the ONLY full frame DSLR in canon's lineup). Both have coexisted for a long time.

Was the "s" a hardware upgrade, or just firmware? In fact, what was the change?

It got a 35mm full-frame sensor (previously 1.3x FOV crop), lager viewfinder, and they bumped it to 21 Mp (from 16.7 Mp).... and doubled the price, all within 5 months!

From what I understand, Canon normally upgrades their EOS bodies every two to three years. I could be wrong though.

I don't think there's such a thing as "normally" when it comes to Canon ;^)

-- peer

Again, 1Ds is NOT an update to the 1D. The 1Ds MkIII was an update to the 1Ds MkII. The 1D MkIII is the updated 1D MkII. Both are different products for different markets. The 1D line has always had the fastest burst rate of the entire Canon lineup. The tradeoff has always been a smaller sensor to achieve faster burst rates. It is designed for sports photographers.

Again, 1Ds is NOT an update to the 1D.

And this is exactly what we are talking about here (at least that's what I'm talking about) -- from the history I've had with Canon, I think they'll release a new 5D, the same way they did with the 1Ds, rather than giving the old 5D full manual controls.

-- peer

From what I understand, you can't really call the 1Ds an upgrade to the 1D at all. They're different beasts and they coexisted.

It would be more illuminating to look at the longevity of the 1Dx from Mark to Mark, as well as the interval from 5D to 5D Mark II. From what I've read on other sites, that's about 2 to 3 years. Anybody got the release dates at hand?

From what I understand, you can't really call the 1Ds an upgrade to the 1D at all.

And that's my point. I repeat; I think Canon will rather release a new 5D, than simply upgrading it.

-- peer

And that's my point. I repeat; I think Canon will rather release a new 5D, than simply upgrading it.

-- peer

I hope not. If that happens, how many people will brick their 5d2 by trying to load the new model's firmware?

I hope not. If that happens, how many people will brick their 5d2 by trying to load the new model's firmware?

I agree, I certainly hope Canon would give us a MKII firmware fix, and then release whatever new camera (with audio controls, etc.). But looking at Canon's history, I for one think a firmware fix is becoming less likely by the day, while it's more possible we'll soon see a new hi-end camera, like they did with the 1Ds. But what do I know?!

-- peer

And that's my point. I repeat; I think Canon will rather release a new 5D, than simply upgrading it.

I understand. But keep in mind that the 1Ds was far from just a firmware upgrade. Crop vs. full frame is a big deal.

My guess is that either there will be a minor FW upgrade (such as EF aperture control - gotta sell lenses, you know) or nothing. Also, I would be surprised if we see a 5D MkIII in fewer than 18 months. The new camera will need more than just video updates. It will need photo improvements as well. Maybe it will get a better autofocus, articulating screen, lower noise, who knows? If the MkIII has video improvements only, the still community will howl.

I understand. But keep in mind that the 1Ds was far from just a firmware upgrade. Crop vs. full frame is a big deal. [...] Also, I would be surprised if we see a 5D MkIII in fewer than 18 months.

I disagree, and that was my point by referring to the 1D / 1Ds that took less than 5 months. Hence, I doubt it will take 18 months for a similar move of an eventual 5Ds (or whatever they'll call it).

If the MkIII has video improvements only, the still community will howl.

I agree.

-- peer

If Nikon delivers, that's probably when I'd sell the 5DMkII and grab the Nikon. I've got a ton of glass for it.

There must be a few of us in this club

Peer i really don't think you are following the product lines correctly

1d does not equal 1ds

As different as the 50D to the 5DII. The 5d's last camera in the line was the 5d mark I was about 4 years before the 5d II was out.

Currently we have 3 very distinct lines

1ds III Pro Studio Cam / ~24mp / 4.0 fps / Pro AF and Body
1d III Pro Sports Cam / 10 mp / 10 fps / Pro AF and Body
5d II - Upper Prosumer Cam / 24 mp / 3.9 fps / 1080p movie (BTW most people agree this line targeted wedding type photogs)

I have both the 1d3 and the 5dII and use them for totally different situations. Even in the realm of Fashion I use my 1d3 mainly for runway shows and the 5d II for editorial / portraiture

There simply is not a space for another line and no way they would introduce another 5d anytime soon. It would not make sense for them to! Not only would there be major consumer backlash. To open another production line for a cam very similar to the 5d II but with just extra video controls would be a waste of money.

AGAIN for all the people buying old Nikon glass. Why would you jump to Nikon right away without even seeing how good the video is? The next Nikon pro-ish camera will not be released until atleast this fall which is a full year after the Canon. Are you saying Canon cheated you by not releasing it a full year earlier than Nikon? Have you even looked at your glass and noticed you probably need an adapter for the nikon camera too to use them?? It's almost like you are mad at Canon for bring out a camera with features no other have at this point (still camera wise) and has such a seductive depth of field and low light capability that it basically created a new genre of camera.

The next cameras that are coming out for Canon are their top end pro lines... 1d4 and or 1ds4 and if you are buying those for just the video (check the prices of the the top of the line from either company... btw d3x is missing video totally isn't it?) then you need to check your gadget lust and re-evaluate how to spend your money.

For the people who don't follow Camera gear the top of the line when they are released are typically around 6-8k (body only). I think you can get a pretty nice video setup without dealing with still camera form factor for that price

I was at NAB too and there are a couple of things to take note of:

1. Canon had nothing special in the "video" camera department other then what they already have.

2. The to effort and space to promote the 5D MKII

3. According to the 5D rep, he stated to me "its not in your best interest to spend the money on Nikon Glass for manual control as a resolution to the PROBLEM will be fixed soon.

4. Canon partners were promoting the 5D.

Also Canon will not update the 5D, they aren't stupid in that they are going to redesign an already awesome camera when they don't need to. The profit margin if they were to release a new 5D wouldn't be all that great, this camera "sells" mostly to PHOTOGRAPHERS, not video professionals, PHOTOGRAPHERS are FINE with this camera as it is, only a small share of 5D owners focus on the video features. Redoing the firmware would just attract more of the video crowd, its easy to do, it will sell lenses which are bigger money makers and the can ride off of the hype of the popularity of the camera itself already.

I totally agree with Silton... As a photographer I could not be more pleased with the 5d II. The bonus is it has brought me into this realm of video and I've learned a ton since I got it. I've recently purchased a XH-A1 to further me down the path of video! :D

AGAIN for all the people buying old Nikon glass. Why would you jump to Nikon right away without even seeing how good the video is?

I think it can be taken as a given that we would only jump if Nikon get it right (in fact that was stated) - of course we would have to see the footage first.

Are you saying Canon cheated you by not releasing it a full year earlier than Nikon?

I didn't hear anyone say that. The 5D produces gorgeous images now, I'm grateful for it; but equally I'm not going to live with its limitations (lack of 25p/exposure control) if the competition resolves these issues in the short/medium term and I already have their glass.

Have you even looked at your glass and noticed you probably need an adapter for the nikon camera too to use them?

30 year old AI glass works/meters perfectly on the D300, D700, D3 with no adaptor - there's no reason to suggest this wouldn't be the case on replacement models.

30 year old AI glass works/meters perfectly on the D300, D700, D3 with no adaptor - there's no reason to suggest this wouldn't be the case on replacement models.Josh,

If you see Nikon as your likely next path, you might get their AF lenses. I've got three on loan, and they work great on the 5D MkII. (Be aware that a small number of AF lenses lack aperture rings - avoid those.)

The good news is that whatever we get, we can sell the glass on Craigslist or ebay without taking much, if any, loss. And we can rent the really high end stuff on demand.

Here's an alternative thought... What if Canon added aperture control to the existing camera - as well as some killer live autofocus. In that case, Canon lenses would be delectable. :)

If you see Nikon as your likely next path, you might get their AF lenses. )

I've actually been using a couple of Nikkor AF zooms on my 5D, and yes they work great. Apart from getting aperture control, the nice thing about having a Nikkor zoom attached is the shutter doesn't attempt to correlate with focal length - another annoying trait using Canon glass with the 5D - making it easier to achieve 1/40th.

I'm brand agnostic, and eager to see Canon or Nikon come up with a full-frame DSLR with with full exposure control in video mode (and for me being in Pal-land, most crucially 25p).

Peer i really don't think you are following the product lines correctly

And I really don't think you are following my reasoning in this matter. Many here believe there will be a firmware update -- I, however, believe it will more likely come in a new model -- whether it will be in an 1D, 1Ds, 5D, 5Ds, or a new 1155DDss (or whatever). Sooner or later, we'll see.

-- peer

I can say that most people that are looking for this firmware update will not be buying the "new" model that you speak of.

Like I mentioned before the only new models that are coming out for Canon that would be better than the 5d II are the 1 series and they are twice as much as the 5d II. Would you buy a 1ds IV (since 1d will be cropped sensor which possibly could affect the low light ability of the video) for 8000$ just because it had 24p and manual aperture control? So if this cam comes out 6 months later does it have much relevance to the 5d II ?

But you guys were right! I got mixed up with brands and lens compatibility. Seems like on the low end D40 had some screw drive AF functionality left out! Again there is no adapter needed for old nikon to new! My mistake.

It just seems everyone is generalizing the situation a little too much.

There are factors of time to market (When is Nikon going to bring it?)
Canon's response (If they dont have a similar class camera with these functions will they finally put the firmware out)
Cost (Again the flagship cameras are around the 8k range for body only)
Quality (Is it guaranteed that Nikon who doesn't have the R&D and experience in video that Canon does will have better video? Have you checked into the problems people are having with D90 video? - no manual aperture also, rolling shutter more pronounced etc.)

The kind of generalizing statements coming from people makes others who are not as informed wait and hope for a "Jesus cam" while they could be doing amazing stuff with the equipment out there now!

Please Note while i'm a Canon shooter it's more because of their variety of current lenses vs the Nikon line more than the Cameras themselves. And while I am in the opinion that Canon should definitely add a lot of those functions everyone is speaking about , my bone to pick is with all the jumping ship type post. They just seem to be based on the assumption that Canon would rather Nikon come out with a better camera and they sit on their laurels

I can say that most people that are looking for this firmware update will not be buying the "new" model that you speak of.

What makes you say this without knowing (I assume) what a "new" model would comprise?

Would you buy a 1ds IV (since 1d will be cropped sensor which possibly could affect the low light ability of the video) for 8000$ just because it had 24p and manual aperture control?

Is this what Canon plans to do...? I'm confused.

It just seems everyone is generalizing the situation a little too much.

And the above prospection wasn't?

The kind of generalizing statements coming from people makes others who are not as informed wait and hope for a "Jesus cam" while they could be doing amazing stuff with the equipment out there now!

I'm not sure what "generalizing statements" you are referring to, but I for one think a forum discussion like this can be very helpful to those "who are not as informed" -- at this point, to wait and see what Canon does might be the best solution for some people. We'll see.

They just seem to be based on the assumption that Canon would rather Nikon come out with a better camera and they sit on their laurels.

I don't understand the above sentence.

-- peer

Uncrippling the 5D as it is now would help push sales of an already existing model even further. No need to. The 5D Mk. II already sells very well, just as it is. Canon will indeed sell every single one that they make; in fact they're still having trouble delivering enough to meet the demand. And it would be that way even if the camera didn't have an HD video mode.

Remember, it took Canon just 5 months to upgrade their 1D MKIII to a 1Ds MKIII.It's already been pointed out several times by several members, but it's important for you to understand that the 1Ds is *not* an upgrade to the 1D. You're making an incorrect assumption based on a confusing model numbering system. The 1D and 1Ds are two completely different product lines at two different price tiers.

The 1Ds Mk. III is an upgrade from the 1Ds Mk. II.

Likewise, the 1D Mk. III is an upgrade from the 1D Mk. II.

It's important to understand that these two cameras are completely different product lines, sold at completely different price points, targeting completely different markets. Hope this helps.

Meanwhile this thread has been circling back on itself and not really moving forward. Time to stick a fork in it, 'cause it's done. Thanks all,