Hi guys

I've seen amazing SDEs around and am about to start doing some. Can anyone point me to the right directions? like tips and tricks maybe? what to do and what not to do?

i'm using mbp with fcp 6. shooting with tape. haven't got ex or Mii yet... nor firestore :(

still have a lot to buy eh....

thanks a lot.

santo

Hi Susanto,

There are many ways to approach a SDE and a lot of is depends on your circumstances. I have a few questions for you. Do you work alone? Is there a break between the ceremony and reception? Is the ceremony and reception at the same location or is there a very long drive time? Do you like to plan things in advance or do you like to go with the flow?

Hi Mark,

I don't work alone. There will be 3 people on the team for SDEs at the moment because we haven't got the hang of it yet. In the future probably will try to cut it down to two but not sure yet. Well we can say at least we'll have two people.

there should be a break between ceremony and reception otherwise it is virtually not possible right? I do have minimum 2 hour break time between ceremony and reception for SDE clients. Is that good enough? I'd say I'm quiet a fast editor but I never experienced editing SDE so cannot tell whether I'm fast enough or not with all the pressure going on.

I guess people would choose the song before hand yeah? I don't think there will be any time to choose the song on location.

Santo

Hi Sunto,

3 people will be great. It is possible to do a SDE without a break between the ceremony and reception. In our market, the photographer will spend 20-30 minutes taking pictures after the ceremony and then the reception starts, usually without a cocktail hour. Having at least a 2 hour break will really help you.

Here are some step that we use.

I think it is easier to edit a SDE to an instrumental song. That way the edit goes faster when you are not trying to match the words of the song to the edit. It also makes it easier to add in the vows or any other VO from the day.

I think it is also easier to edit fairly close to the way the day happened and not use a lot of time shifting, but if you style is to use a lot of time shifting, then go for it.

After the song is selected we lay it down on the timeline and trim up the beginning and end, that is when there is dead space at either place. If the song is really long, more than 3.5 minutes, I look for a way to edit back the length and make a condensed version. If that is not very possible because of a key change or for whatever reason, I will look for a good place to get out of the song early, if I need to.

Then I study the song and listen for natural places for the prep, brides entrance, kiss, etc...I place markers on the timeline as a target to where I want those key moments to land. It is really cool if you can include a few reception shots and 2-3 first dance shots, but that may be overload for you first SDE. If you end the edit with the kiss and exit from the alter, it will still wow the guests and the B&G will love it.

Once I have the key moments planned out, I go back and plan out the shots in between...2-3 church establishing shots...prep shots, etc. I plan out each time I want the shot to change between the church establishing shots and the Brides entrance. That way I know how many Prep shots I need. I am editing very closely to the feel of the music until the Bride makes her entrance.

If you add in their vows and drop down the music for the ceremony portion, you don't have to edit as closely to the beat and feel of the music.

As far as shooting for the SDE...There are many ways to approach this as well. It makes it much easier if you have three cameras. Then you can have one camera dedicated as a SDE camera for Prep. Not that you can only use footage from that camera, but it makes it easier to capture footage from just one tape than two or more tapes.

If using a dedicated SDE camera is not feasible, have each shooter identifiy potential SDE shots during prep. Do your camera allow you to put color bars on the footage? If so, have the shooter flash the bars for a couple of seconds after a potential SDE shot. That way the editor can fast forward through the tape and when they see the color bars show up, just go back one shot and capture that footage. This is a great technique when shooting with a camera like the Panasonic HMC150 because it makes a little picture icon for each shot, so it really speeds up the shot selection process.

If your cameras do not have color bars, or it is not easily captured to tape, just have them shoot a few seconds with their hand over the lens, or whatever the cue is, just have a system to help the editor know what shots to look for. By using this technique, you don't have to capture all of the prep footage and more importantly, you don't have to go through all of the prep footage, which saves time and on a SDE, wasted time is your second worse enemy. What is the biggest enemy? Equipment failure...Have backups.

If you live close to enough to the ceremony location, and assuming it's a church, you could get a couple of exterior shots days before the wedding. That way you already have them on the timeline. Then you just need an interior shot on the wedding day.

In our tape based days we would capture to the laptop during the ceremony if the back camera could shoot from a balcony. You could also do this with the front camera if you had a long enough firewire cable and a second laptop. If you just have one laptop and your third person is not shooting, have the third person capture to the laptop and if they could do this from the front camera, that would be ideal, assuming you have your wireless mics on the front camera.

Another idea for the ceremony, is to have the back camera write down the time code to the key moments as they happen. This really saves time in capturing the back camera footage.

As far as playback, when we were shooting DV, we did not have to render or encode for output back to tape. With our NLE, Edius, when the edit was done, we would hook the camera up to the laptop, with a fresh tape, and output the timeline to tape. It was much faster than encoding for DVD. I'm not sure if FCP will let you do this or not.

Some people prefer to show the SDE from DVD while other prefer tape. On a few occasions we have had to playback from the laptop, but I don't like to do it that way and now that we are on HD, it is not an ideal output choice.

I have only covered the tip of the iceberg, but hopefully this will give you a few ideas.

O MY GOSH..

Thank you for the well explained step by step process you just did..

I'm very grateful for you to take the time to write all those stuff.

They are definitely helpful. I just have to digest them and try to imagine applying them in my style of shooting and editing. The color bar thing is great.. our cameras can switch back and forth between bars so thats not a problem. The only thing with that is that I don't like the feeling that I don't have all the footage ready to edit while I know that its a lot to do with time saving...

20-30 minutes to do SDE is crazy.. I don't think I'm up for it at the moment.. That would take some skills and experience to do that. Lots of pressure I presume.

Laying the edit back to tape is also handy, we can just capture the HD footage downressed to SD and then lay it back to tape. Do you just hook up the camera to the projector via AV cable? does it work with widescreen alright? I'm using XH-A1 and sony fx1.

I guess now one obvious problem is to capture the footage from the ceremony..

I can have my third operator to capture the prep during ceremony but then i'd have to spend time capturing the ceremony footage afterwards.. and to capture the whole 1 hour ceremony is a no go. I think I'd have to just capture the walk-in, some preaching, then straight to ring exchange and kiss eh...? That's when I'm planning to end it anyway.

Any DON'T DOs to share regarding SDE??

Santo

Hi Santo,

You are welcome.

Just to clarify, we do not edit SDEs in 20-30 minutes. We edit during the reception. The goal is to show the SDE after dinner, but not too late in the evening because many of the guests start to leave as the night goes on.

The FX1 has an S Video output and you can run an S Video cable 30-100 feet. I don't remember is the XH-A1 has an HDMI output or not, but that would be a good solution, that is if your projector has HDMI, I'm just not sure how far you can run HDMI.

There are dozens of ways to do a SDE, you just have to figure out what works best for you.

DON'T DO's?
Don't spend too much time trying to make the perfect masterpiece. If you include the vows or other VO, spend time making sure they sound good...not too soft of too loud. People will be more forgiving of some visual things, like the shot not falling exactly on the beat, or WB colors not be absolutely perfect, or a little shakiness at the beginning or end of a shot, but if they cannot hear the vows...they will notice that much more.

I keep bringing up the vows or other VO because there is so much emotion in hearing the human voice. It's one advantage we have over the photographer, so take advatage of it!

If all you can pull of is 1-2 minutes, start there. It doesn't have to be a 3-4 minute masterpiece. Don't sweat the small stuff and more importantly...don't let them see you sweat it. ;-)

Mark,

I feel the need to comment on this thread even though I don't have anything to add about SDEs beside stay calm its easier to edit when you are calmer than if you are freaking out. Stay calm and don't get worked up. I will show in the final product. But what I need to say is that your explanation of how to edit an SDE was incredible. The thought you put into your post is the reason why these forums are so helpful to the new comers to the industry and one of the reasons I feel like I have improves so much since I started. Thanks for contributing so much.

Louis

Wow what a wonderful informational piece. I wonder if this could be a sticky in the wedding/event forum? It is such good info...thanks for sharing!

From my last experience, I can vouch for bringing almost every cable you own, as well as power supply for the feeder unit (in my case, the HV30). My editor didn't have a mini-firewire with him, mine was in a car parked blocks away...but Radio Shack nearby had a cable for $40 (!!!) I had to have my editor run there, which cost valuable time. Make sure the DJ/projectionist (if its not you) has the right gear for potentially hooking up to your laptop/edit system (if you don't have time to make a DVD, this is your best bet).
Pre-planning and coordination with the shooters will save you loads of time in post. I'm going to try the bars trick on my next one (thanks for that!).

Hi Louis and Bryan,

Thanks for the kind words.

Very well said mark! We do SDE in every wedding we documented.

Pls visit A.G. Garza ? Wedding Videographer (http://www.aggarzavideos.com) for some of our works.

Cheers!

Hi Mark, well said! this should sticky! I think the idea of having an SDE camera helps a lot. In Singapore, we have normally get 4hrs to edit an SDE and we only have a one man operation budget.

Having 2 cameras to handle for an SDE will be pretty challenging. Got to think of how to get the footage digitized on a concurrent basis as far as possible. Workflow and pre planning is really very critical.

I am thinking about making the 5D a SDE edit. Quick capture, high quality, easy to edit with, etc. Plus the main purpose of a SDE is to impress everybody at the reception and get the client excited to see the full video. The quality of the 5D will do that and more.

Hi Mark!

There isn't much I can add to that, except to stress the pre-planning. I'm shooting to tape, so one thing I do is capture the entire prep/processional portion during the remaining part of the ceremony. That will have a big portion of what will end up in the final edit. My goal is to have everything in the computer by the time I arrive at the reception site to start cutting. I've jotted down some notes where the money-shots are when I'm shooting so I can scan through the footage to get those, but its nice having everything available if you need filler or end up having more time to than you thought and can make it more complex (as if that ever happens).


... On a few occasions we have had to playback from the laptop, but I don't like to do it that way and now that we are on HD, it is not an ideal output choice.

After trying every option for presentation last year with HDV footage I found that with my current set-up running the program off the laptop to the projector was the only way I was able to show an HD version within a very restricted amount of time. As a bonus you gain that extra time normally needed to dump to tape. I am not satisfied with the quality of the in-camera downscaling so my goal was to edit HDV natively and show the program directly off the timeline without having to go through the lengthy conform process that is necessary in FCP when outputting to tape (or DVD for that matter). I avoid conforming by playing the program full-screen to the projector, which acts as a second monitor for FCP's Cinema Desktop Preview feature. I have DVI cables that run from the laptop to the projector up to 50 foot lengths so I can have the laptop near the audio amplification source.

Hi Louis,

I am thinking about making the 5D a SDE edit. Quick capture, high quality, easy to edit with, etc. Plus the main purpose of a SDE is to impress everybody at the reception and get the client excited to see the full video. The quality of the 5D will do that and more.

I agree about the effect an SDE can have, but I don't necessarily think that the picture quality is the main reason they're a valuable marketing tool. Its more about what you do with the camera and in the edit than what you're shooting with.

Oh I know, I mean using the lighter camera, with the shallow DoF would give us the ability to be more creative faster. Therefore improving the quality of the SDE.

And I right to say some of you are showing the end result directly of the timeline via a long vga/dvi cable? So does it mean that you are showing it as a preview screen? Otherwise ppl were traditionally printing to tape?

Oops, double post. Anyway, how many time is usually available for a reception? 4hrs?

Hi Sean,

And I right to say some of you are showing the end result directly of the timeline via a long vga/dvi cable? So does it mean that you are showing it as a preview screen? Otherwise ppl were traditionally printing to tape?

Yes - its is DVI to the projector with the projector being a full-screen version of the timeline.

Have you guys had problems with connecting mac to projectors?

I'm about to connect my macbook pro next sunday and I'm freaking out.

Will contact the projector company to ask on monday.

Have you guys had problems with connecting mac to projectors?

I'm about to connect my macbook pro next sunday and I'm freaking out.

Will contact the projector company to ask on monday.

I believe u need an adaptor from mac to connect to most projectors with standard inputs.

And you need to take care of the audio too.. A 3.5mm audio cable from your mac to the PA system's amplifier. Should be of those mic jacks or XLR type ?

In order to connect sterio signal into the PA you need to have in mind that an XLR connector can only accept mono signal and it depends on mixing console if there is a sterio jack or TRS (looks identical) you need to use two XLR or TRS.

When a TRS is used to make a balanced connection, the two active conductors are both used for a monaural signal. The ring, used for the right channel in stereo systems, is used instead for the inverting input. This is a common use in small audio mixing desks, where space is a premium and they offer a more compact alternative to XLR connectors. Another advantage offered by TRS connectors used for balanced microphone inputs is that a standard unbalanced signal lead using a mono jack plug can simply be plugged into such an input. The ring (right channel) contact then makes contact with the plug body, correctly grounding the inverting input.

The disadvantage of using TRS jacks for balanced audio connections is that the ground mates last and the socket grounds the plug tip and ring when inserting or pulling out the plug. This causes bursts of hum, cracks and pops and may stress some outputs as they will be short circuited briefly, or longer if the plug is left half in. Professional audio equipment uses XLR connectors which mate the ground signal on pin 1 first.

this is a long thread but one suggestion I will make that will make SDE really easier in terms of detail shots of the church. get there on rehersal day and get all the church shots out of the way.

sometimes, wedding decors are there too and if they are, get them.

hope this helps

Have you guys had problems with connecting mac to projectors?

I'm about to connect my macbook pro next sunday and I'm freaking out.

Will contact the projector company to ask on monday.

It totally depends on what inputs your projector has and what outputs your MacBook Pro has. If its a new MacBook Pro they use a miniature DVI port. Older models use DVI. The projector may have one or a combination of VGA, DVI or HDMI inputs. There are adapters for DVI for VGA and HDMI. For audio I ask the dj or band what connector they prefer, RCA (phono), 1/4" or XLR and attach what they need. In case of technical difficulty or if the placement of the dj or band isn't right for the projection I have a 15" powered speaker on stand-by. That has XLR and 1/4" inputs to choose from.

hi guys,

thank you for all the tips and tricks provided. I have finished the (half) same day edit last sunday with a success (i finished it so i think its quiet a successful one for me)

You can have a look at it on the other thread that i have posted.

Thanks again all! all the help is very very much appreciated.

What I can say is, SDE is NOT easy................. lots of heart pumping....

Santo

hi guys,

thank you for all the tips and tricks provided. I have finished the (half) same day edit last sunday with a success (i finished it so i think its quiet a successful one for me)

You can have a look at it on the other thread that i have posted.

Thanks again all! all the help is very very much appreciated.

What I can say is, SDE is NOT easy................. lots of heart pumping....

Santo

Put up a link so we can see your work :)

Put up a link so we can see your work :)

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/wedding-event-videography-techniques/235335-imagine-prewedding-film-concept.html

there you go :)

Could I just post what my workflow here to share with everyone since I think a lot of people would find this to be useful. Also because the reason that i started this thread was to help me doing my first SDE few weeks ago.

It was a 3 people team that day, its our first one so we want to be safe and go for 3 people. Plus the client wants everything captured with 2 cameras all the time. I think we could do with 2 people next time if we want to.

So basically 2 people capturing the prep, one person assisting

while travelling to church, one person capturing with mbp.

while filming ceremony, 2 people shoot with fresh tape one person still capturing

ceremony finished, ceremony tapes are captured
* here i was planning to capture the whole 2 tapes, but decided to just capture walking the aisle, vows and wedding kiss because of time. ( I think I made the right move)

start edit at 4.30pm while the other 2 crew shoot the location shoot, finished the edit at 7pm ready to render.

I was rendering to photo-jpeg and found that it needs 1 hour to render. I straight away canceled that and went for reference movie with current setting which is 1080i.

I was kinda worried whether my laptop would cope with playing it or not but I just went with it.

it took 25 mins to render and it played beautifully and with HD quality as opposed to the photo-jpeg SD that I was planning to export.

we showed the movie at 8pm and everybody loved it. The MC actually asked me to go to the front and talk about the concept of the whole imagining your day like. That was unexpected.. but kinda fun hahaha...

next time I would try to incorporate the location shoot footage to the SDE.. hopefully can make that work.

So thanks again everyone for the help you put in this thread, especially to mr Von! :)

Santo

Glad to hear that everything went as planned without a hitch. SDEs are definitely fun and exciting to to put together (as long as they go as planned).

So do we get to see the SDE you've put together?

Here is one I did a few weeks back. Lot of the tips and advices from this thread were implemented in the workflow of this SDE. Thanks to Von and rest of the gang for sharing their knowledge and experience.

Cathy & Andy :: The SDE! on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/4688504)

Glad to hear that everything went as planned without a hitch. SDEs are definitely fun and exciting to to put together (as long as they go as planned).

So do we get to see the SDE you've put together?


http://www.vimeo.com/4610170

There you go :)

Santo

Hey Susanto Congra on your SDE accomplisment just wondering if you can post the spec of your NLE. i know you use a laptop but don't know what you are running like NLE Software, Any breakout box to assist with the Render or GPU. CPU Speed, ram memory. Mac or Pc, Plugin affect. Color correct, you know anything about your Edit system. I'm trying to pull a supprise SDE to see if i'm capable of doing so and i dont want to wast my time on it if my system is not ready or capable of doing so. Please your information are much appreciated.

I currently have MacBook Pro 2.5 cor 2 dual intel, 2gb of ram, 512Vram 250gb of HDD, CS3 Master installed Final cut Studio 2 can be install if needed. I'm running tapeless so no need to capture there. I have an MCR1 with 2x32gb CF and a firestore Hd100 250gb, 2 XhA1, planing on getting another MCR1 for my other A1.

When you finish Render did you show the finish SDE out from the timeline or on you laptop or you export to a video file and playback. Thank you for you time.

I used a MBP 17inch older model

I didn't use plugin. just 3 color wheels

Captured from tape to 1080i50

Edit in 1080i50

render to reference fcp movie current settings.

play it through quicktime

Good luck!!!

thank you Susanto. What is your Macbook pro spec if you don't mind.

2.33 ghz intel core 2 duo

2 gb ram

thats what i found in the about this mac.

Santo

Hi guys, just wanting to show off my first full SDE hahahha sorry, I had to use the word show off just because I'm very proud of this one :D

It may not be the best SDE in the world, but it is the best first SDE for me.

Thank you to everyone who has helped on this thread about sde tips and tricks. Seriously, I learned a lot and digested a lot from this thread before went on and do this SDE.

So, thank you!!! especially to Mark!

Gordon & Lina SDE (Same Day Edit) (http://weddingvideosydney.net/?p=187)

Santo

Hi Susanto,

A few observations.

I thought the beginning title with the date could have been spaced better.

The first minute was ok, not sure about the b+w or sound effects.

Not the most attractive washing line for the shoe shots! but probably all you had.

Too much headroom at 1.37...

Nice shot of the guests winking with good camera movement.

Did not really get the bread sequence!

I thought things improved after 3min or so.

Overall quite nice.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.
John De Rienzo

Thanks John for the observations, will certainly look to it for next SDE.

just a quick responds, the headroom was intentional, it might not flatter everyone i know..

the bread sequence was a game that they had when the groom party had to eat the bread and form them to be "I love Lina" I think it would probably be clearer in a bigger screen. but I agree that its not that easy to understand on a quick cut like that. or my editing was just not good enough!

all in all, great observations, accepted with gladness!

Santo

Gorgeous Santo - for your first full SDE it's outstanding and you should deservedly be very, very proud. I bet it got an amazing reaction. Loved the games & quizzing before the groom being allowed in.

I'd be interested to know if you're charging for these yet or just offering them complimentary until you feel confident enough that you can pull it off regularly - or maybe you're at that stage already ;)

Ceremony looked like it was at Mrs Macquarie's Chair - correct? I've shot there previously when I was based in Sydney.

I don't want to detract at all from the great job you've done for your first full SDE so I'm not going to go through and critique it... :)

Cheers,

Matt.

Matt!

Thanks for the kind words..

I offered the client SDE to swap with another thing that they don't need from the package.

So its like a win-win situation.

ceremony place is correct. Royal botanical garden to be exact.

Please do critique my work as I truly respect what people say about my work as long as it makes sense.

Thanks for your post on my blog too!

Santo