We do all most all our work in early sunrise and golden hour light outdoors, and usually have pretty bright scenes, especially due to our location in northeastern Brazil.

One major prob we've run into with little HD monitors is reflectivity and difficulty even seeing them on crane and dolly. How does the DP1 stand up outdoors in the seriously bright sunshine?



Perfectly. Use the sun shade. I shot out in the bright sunlight all day today and I was never once left wishing for a different setup.

Trevor, I think it's great that you are delighted with your monitor but I have yet to see a 300 nit monitor perform adequately in daylight myself. This is of course a subjective response to some degree, but it does depend on how one is using these monitors. For a situation where one's eye is always essentially fixed in position to the monitor, i.e. using it as a heads-up onboard monitor for a camera or director's monitor, a standard brightness display such as the DP1 can do the trick especially if you can "seal" your eye to the display via a hood.

For crane or Steadicam work, generally the orientation of the operator the monitor is in constant flux and it may be hard to use a wraparound hood, let alone the much more effective diagonal hood (Hoodman style). In these situations, the brightness, contrast, ambient light rejection and anti-reflective coating of the display become extremely important otherwise the operator may find themselves virtually blind.

Earlier this year I organized the "Great Daylight Monitor Shootout" (http://web.me.com/chupap/Films/monitorshootout.html) where we tested some 15 monitors for their daylight viewability. I would be hard pressed to claim even the top of the line units ($8K) as being "perfect" in direct sun (again, sunshades are not always possible for all applications). However, there were a couple of standouts on the budget side--The Nebtek Solar 7 was a big hit, and the Marshall transflective model was a good contender. The latter being the least expensive display on the rotisserie but still $2200, this is obviously a different class of monitor than the highly affordable DP1 but I thought it worth mentioning. Again, what one might consider acceptable for daylight performance may not be shared by another.

. How does the DP1 stand up outdoors in the seriously bright sunshine?

not that well from my eye, I ended up virtually sticking my head 'in the hood' to minimise reflection. It's not any better or worse than other monitors in that regard.

Thanks for the heads up on this. Charles, I figured anyone with much crane, dolly or steadicam experience would pretty much say what you said. The hoods are almost useless on location in the heat of the battle, so anything not specifically engineered for direct sun is going to be "more of the same".

I've been eyeballing the Marshall transflective for a while, but wish I could "trade in one of our Marshall HD's" for it! As a non-profit, we hate to spend more on something we already have...but if what you have doesn't do the job, then I guess there's no other way. Those little Marshall HDs in the sun are killers and if the angle is wrong, like you said, our crane operator has to work almost blind! Even tripod shots are hard with full sunshades and extenders on them (and black shirts on the operators), if the angle is wrong.

We do almost all our work from 6 am - 8:30 am (sun rises here at 5:23am!!) or a few late golden hours, and the combo of near-equator... some of the purest air in the world...and sand, sand, sand... makes for stacks of neutral density filters and lousy DOF...and blind cameramen!

All that to say...I guess we'll have to break for that new Marshall...sigh.

Thanks.

Down here in New Zealand, the hole in the ozone layer sits over us all summer long, and while i cant say if it alters the "brightness" of the sun, it lets in a whole lot more UV, and at least to my eye, makes things a whole lot "squintier" than an old fashioned Texas summer day. (as long as i'm making up words, its also a whole lot "sunburnier" too.)

My macbook is supposedly around 300 nits, and if i'm outside during the day (even in the shade), the backlight on the screen makes no difference on or off. Thats the same with the dvd player a friend bought for a framing monitor, a sony pro lcd I've rented and every field CRT we've ever shot with here. Even with sun hoods, its not uncommon to see a director to also be under an umbrella AND with a sound blanket/towel draped over the monitor and his head like an old timey photographer.

Not being transflective, i didn't expect anything different from smallHD. However, doing tests in the harshest afternoon sunlight, we were pleasantly surprised to find that you could actually see the image on the dp1. Now, i'm not claiming its clear as day or anything, but I've used it several times now on my advantajib in horrible lighting conditions and been able to see enough for framing, which surprised and pleased me.

The dp1 sunshade is pretty clever and makes a huge difference if you are up close to the monitor or trying to prevent sun spill onto the screen. However, like all sunshades, if you're on a steadicam or a jib that doesnt keep the monitor positioned, then sunshades are often more nuisance than help.

So, i concur that its totally subjective, but in my experience i found that the dp1 performs better in sunlight than other monitors in the same size/class. I considered the xenarc transflective before i got the dp1, and would be curious how it fares (i've heard conflicting reports).

The dp1 is very reflective and definitely works best outside with your head shoved into the sunshade to block reflections from behind, but for me where numerous monitors both cheap and costly have given me basically *no* image in sunlight, the DP1 gave me "some" image - enough for framing and sometimes focus, which saved my butt at least once. -- and when I have needed critical focus, having the dp1/sunshade on the camera has allowed me to move in and see what i needed.

I dunno if i'm a rabid fanboy or not, but i expected nothing in sunlight and got something I was able to use, so that was a big happy surprise for me.

Not that these tell you much, but here are a couple random shots i took of field test of the dp1 with and without the sunshade in full nz sun. As a funny anecdote, the next time i worked with Kirk, (the dp in the photos helping me review the monitor) I went to pull out my dp1 and he pulled one out too. He was impressed enough with our various tests that he bought his own. heh.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14373&stc=1&d=1254645149
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14372&stc=1&d=1254645149

questions or criticisms of what i said, please holler!

cheers,
-andrew

Andrew, I've got an observation and comment:

That wider shot of your's used a flash, as is easily seen by the brightness inside the hood and the angle of the sun (in front of you and to the left). If you had shot that pic without the flash, you'd see the DP1 image even better. Any field monitor would have had roughly the same image at that angle, I would imagine.

Now turn that monitor around at some slight angle from the sun...add some bright sand or rocks behind/below you and try it...now that's another ballgame!

We did a number of productions in the hills, forests and trees of southern Brazil, and our monitors were not much problem. But here...my NZ mountain/forest friend...it's a whole different show. You have the hole, but we have the sun straight up overhead and reflecting off light granite rocks and/or sand.

The bottom line seems to be: "if it weren't made for sunlight, then it just don't run right..."

Fair enough. In my experience the dp1 shows noticeably more image in day/sunlight than any of the other monitors we use (including the RED monitor), but thats far from a comprehensive list. It sounds like you've had other LCDs that fared about as well.

If you get a monitor that rocks in the equatorial sun, be sure to let us forest/hill dwellers know about it! hehe.

cheers!
-a


The bottom line seems to be: "if it weren't made for sunlight, then it just don't run right..."

My dp1 never stops amazing me on my xlh1 when I am out shooting. However i have a small problem.


I am having trouble running straight dv through my xl2 to it and my gl2 (which doesn't have a svhs port asi tii uses 1/8 to three vga out.

The svhs cable should work, but it is so big and heavy I would rather not use it!

why cant i use the yellow video cable? If I can, what setting does it have to be on as i tried them all.

I am obviously missing something here.

Fair enough. In my experience the dp1 shows noticeably more image in day/sunlight than any of the other monitors we use (including the RED monitor), but thats far from a comprehensive list. It sounds like you've had other LCDs that fared about as well.

If you get a monitor that rocks in the equatorial sun, be sure to let us forest/hill dwellers know about it! hehe.

cheers!
-a

Believe me Andrew, if I find one like the dp1, especially for it's good price...I'll shout it loud and clear!

In the meantime...I'm crying over having to pay transreflective prices, even for the "cheaper" Marshalls. We just can't afford to lay out the beans and run the customs gauntlet to import a monitor into Brazil that really doesn't cut the reflective mustard.

It just "ain't worth it, my friend".

Abraço, Steve

I am having trouble running straight dv through my xl2 to it and my gl2 (which doesn't have a svhs port asi tii uses 1/8 to three vga out.
why cant i use the yellow video cable? If I can, what setting does it have to be on as i tried them all.

I dont see any reason you cant run the composite out from the camera into the dp1. (thats what it sounds like you are describing. 1/8" to 3 rca plugs- one yellow (composite) and one red and one white (stereo audio).

You'd hook the composite plug to the composite input on the dp1 and change to the "av" input.

The xl2 has bnc or rca outputs, doesnt it? So a simple RCA cable from the output to the composite input on the dp1.

Apologies if this is something you already know, but, you change the input by (when facing the monitor) pressing the button on the back to your far left. Then change the input by pressing the button on the far right, and once you have it set to "av" (or whatever input you want), you press the button second from the right to "accept" the change.

cheers!

Earlier this year I organized the "Great Daylight Monitor Shootout" (http://web.me.com/chupap/Films/monitorshootout.html) where we tested some 15 monitors for their daylight viewability.

Hey Charles,

I still fly a Pro II rig with the 5" Pro II P43 monitor. If you were to get a P43 monitor today, which one (out of the ones that you tested that have a FL generator) would you get?

I toyed around with a Steadicam Flyer / JVC HD110 (stripped to the bone) combo awhile back, and the only monitor I tested that would work 90% of the time in exterior shots was the Marshall V-LCD84SB-AFHD unit. It's pricey but gives a lot of bang for the buck for full on sunlight uses.

Regarding the reflective surface of the DP1--very simple fix, a diagonal sunshade. I checked Hoodman's site and am shocked that they don't offer these for smaller LCD panels, very strange (old-style for CRT monitors here (http://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=H%2D789). You can easily mock one up for your monitors with cardboard (make sure it is matte black on the inside) and see how you like it. The steeper the diagonal angle, the shorter the "tunnel" but the more severe the viewing angle which is not great for LCD's, so it requires some experimenting. For those who haven't used a diagonal shade, the idea is that the front panel is reflecting the black surface of the bottom panel of the shade plus the ambient light is reduced, which delivers a really clean image.

Enzo:

I bought my PRO back in '97 with the PROII monitor; about a year later the XCS TB6 was introduced and I saw for myself that the image, while mathematically not as bright, showed better contrast in daylight and was thus more viewable. I also liked many of the extra functions on that monitor including zoom and squeeze, and that it was a 16:9 display (way ahead of its time!) While the case is roughly the same size (turned sideways), the image size is generally much larger because of the aspect ration and zoom functions. With 2:35 framing, it's close to twice as large.

I actually have a Flyer monitor on my "Nimblecam" lightweight rig (http://gallery.me.com/chupap#100255) that I put together, it's obviously not a high brightness display (and is SD) but the anti-reflective coatings are good enough that I find it delivers enough image to be able to frame by under most conditions. Eventually I hope to replace it with an HD daylight viewable version.

Enzo:

I bought my PRO back in '97 with the PROII monitor; about a year later the XCS TB6 was introduced and I saw for myself that the image, while mathematically not as bright, showed better contrast in daylight and was thus more viewable. I also liked many of the extra functions on that monitor including zoom and squeeze, and that it was a 16:9 display (way ahead of its time!) While the case is roughly the same size (turned sideways), the image size is generally much larger because of the aspect ration and zoom functions. With 2:35 framing, it's close to twice as large.

I actually have a Flyer monitor on my "Nimblecam" lightweight rig (http://gallery.me.com/chupap#100255) that I put together, it's obviously not a high brightness display (and is SD) but the anti-reflective coatings are good enough that I find it delivers enough image to be able to frame by under most conditions. Eventually I hope to replace it with an HD daylight viewable version.

Charles,

LOVE the "Nimblecam".

Although the Pro II rig is what works best for me most of the time (I got it in '03, I used an Ultra before that), I am always looking for a lighter version (overall) for the newer dinky HD cams (I sometimes use a modified SK rig for those cams).

I tried a modified Flyer with the Marshall V-LCD84SB, worked pretty well, but I did not much like the gimble set-up on the Flyer (but the V-LCD84SB monitor was great in bright exterior situations). I have also tried adapting a ton of SK P43 monitors (because they can be had on the cheap) on other small rigs, but it's a pretty dinky unit with not so good contrast for bright situations, but it does get the job done. I tap into the camera's VF feed to pick up the cam generated frame lines (and info set if I need it). So I well understand the "Nimblecam"!

I have actually used the TB6, it's a nice unit with a great control layout. My Pro II monitor was modified (before I got it) by NY so it's 16:9 / 4:3 switchable (I can then generate 2:35:1 frames off of that). But on your recommendation, I will take another look at the TB6, so thanks for the heads up!

'97, I imagine that was not the first flyer you had, but I still have a few years on you :)
The Steadicam - Enzo Giobbe (http://enzogiobbe.com/steadicam.html) (I was actually two years old in that photo, I just looked mature for my age, honest).

Haha Enzo, you did indeed have a few years on me--I flew for the first time in '83, took the workshop in '85, and bought a battered Model 1 in '89 (for the princely sum of $6K! it was with the non-adjustable 16mm arm though--my old school pix [url=http://web.mac.com/chupap/Archive/Home.html]here]/url]). Flew plenty of BL's in the 90's. Sadly the "heavycam" days are back with us in the form of Genesis/F35's with onboard decks--ridiculous combo.

As I mentioned earlier, the Nebtek Solar 7-SC monitor is going to be the hot one to keep an eye on; otherwise Transvideo is making a beautiful Steadicam-appropriate unit (quite a bit more money though).

Haha Enzo, you did indeed have a few years on me--I flew for the first time in '83, took the workshop in '85, and bought a battered Model 1 in '89 (for the princely sum of $6K! it was with the non-adjustable 16mm arm though--my old school pix [url=http://web.mac.com/chupap/Archive/Home.html]here]/url]). Flew plenty of BL's in the 90's. Sadly the "heavycam" days are back with us in the form of Genesis/F35's with onboard decks--ridiculous combo.

As I mentioned earlier, the Nebtek Solar 7-SC monitor is going to be the hot one to keep an eye on; otherwise Transvideo is making a beautiful Steadicam-appropriate unit (quite a bit more money though).

Wow, a Model 1 at 1/10 the original price:) Damn, that's a hard way to get into flying a rig. I would have assumed that by '89 all the Model 1's had been long gone. Working with that 16 arm must have been a real pain. Setting up the Model 1 correctly was not easy, and not having an adjustable arm must have made it treacherous.

There were no workshops in '77. Everything to do with the Steadicam was strictly OJT. I went down to CP when they had the first few built and asked Ed if I could borrow one for a day. He had made up a special long VF extension for me to use with my Elclair NPR and Cine 60 gear head, then asked if he could use the design for his 16CP 16mm units, so we had a bit of history at that point.

His comment to me was that Garrett was 6'3" - 6'4" and a lefty, I was 6'1" and right handed, and Garrett had pretty much designed the rig for himself.

But he let me have it anyway (actually for a few more times after that). From my experience in racing Group II autos I knew that it's best not to fight the equipment, and once I learned how the rig wanted to be handled, it was pretty much a done deal.

A few weeks later Harvey (from Cinemobile) called me and said they had a show that wanted to use a Steadicam, and if they purchased one, would I operate? Right place, right time, kind of thing. BTW, Cinemobile purchased a Model 2 as well (when it became available). It's major claim to fame (other than a few hardware tweaks) was a rotatable monitor!

Yes, boo on heavycams! the Pro II handles the Genesis and F35 pretty well, and the focus puller has the pleasure of strapping on the outboard and all those Dionic 90's, but we have now gone full circle and are tethered to each other again.

In case there are any focus AC's on this board that I might work with in the future, I LOVE focus pullers, they are the greatest people on earth! (side note: we "flyers" live or die on the skill of our "puller" ;)

Charles, I will take a look at the Nebtek Solar 7-SC as well. Again, thanks for sharing your considerable experiences and knowledge.

Andrew,


I did everything right except set the new setting with the second button, DAh!!



thanks.

Andrew,


I did everything right except set the new setting with the second button, DAh!!



thanks.

glad you got it figured out :)

Hey all, just ordered the DP1 today and I'm curious what sort of mounting options I have with the JVC HD110u? I'd love to be able to mount it on top of the camera of course, but I'd also like to know if there's some sort of arm that could attach to the tripod and give me an additional mounting option.

there's been a few threads discussing this, but here's what works for me:

I have a manfrotto quick release that i mount to my tripod head. Manfrotto by Bogen Imaging | 357 Pro Quick Release Adapter | 357 (http://tinyurl.com/n4nu25)

On the side of the QR base are some threaded holes for storing extra camera screws. Instead of a camera screw, i screw in a noga arm: Noga | DG14CA-SA Cinematic Arm with Hot Shoe | DG14CA-SA | B&H (http://tinyurl.com/yz2l5x5)

Then, on top of the noga i have mounted a giottos mini ball head: Giottos | MH1004 Mini Ball Head | MH1004-320 | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/221096-REG/Giottos_MH1004_320_MH1004_Mini_Ball_Head.html)

You'll pay a couple hundred for this setup, but its simply magic. The arm is long enough to mount the monitor wherever you'd want it around the camera, but its compact and out of the way. You dont put any stress on the camera (especially not the dicey hot shoe).

The ball head is a little redundant to the function of the arm, but i've found that often i want to make a minor adjustment to the angle of the screen without wanting the entire assembly to go floppy. Plus, with the ball head, i find it easier/safer to mount the screen to an already mounted arm.

Adding a lock washer between the noga and the QR protects you from accidently unscrewing the arm from the QR plate. (just a FYI).

One DP i film with really wanted the monitor on the cam when he did some jungly handheld stuff. I messed around with the hot shoe adapter from noga (i hate their shoe adapter) and was never happy with a setup. Finally i just removed the QR base from the tripod and let it travel with the camera- noga attached. Worked an absolute treat. A minor addition of weight, but at the bottom of the camera and without any of the "floppiness" you can often get from a jiggly shoe mount.

Thems my opinions anyways. Gotta be cheaper solutions out there, but i found this one to be my fave. No stress on the camera, and while on the tripod the monitor moves with the camera like you'd expect. Also, you can quickly and easily detach the cam from the tripod either leaving the monitor behind (release the QR plate) or take the monitor with you (release the tripod plate).

Here's a pic of the noga and smallhd to see what i'm talking about. (this rig happened to already have a manfrotto QR on it, so i just used it.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14872&stc=1&d=1257458068

found a few more pix i had previously uploaded:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachments/sdtv-hdtv-video-monitors/13530d1250057927-mounting-8-inch-monitor-15mm-rails-monitor1.jpg

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachments/sdtv-hdtv-video-monitors/13531d1250057927-mounting-8-inch-monitor-15mm-rails-monitor2.jpg

Got the DP1 package and I'm really excited about it! I can't believe what a great deal it is, 2 batteries, sun shade and the cables for less than $1000. Here are a few pics of my setup with the DP1.

Flickr: Evan Agee's stuff tagged with dp1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/evanagee/tags/dp1/)

One major prob we've run into with little HD monitors is reflectivity and difficulty even seeing them on crane and dolly. How does the DP1 stand up outdoors in the seriously bright sunshine?

You got-a love that Brazilian sunshine and congrats on the Olympics. A lot of folks here were pulling for you.

As for the sun vs an LCD, it is no contest. This is a real problem for any monitor. As Andrew mentioned, the Sun Hood helps a lot, but it does not completely solve the problem. We have had several clients speak favorably about our matte screen protectors when shooting outdoors. This approach does reduce glare at the expense of crispness. Of course, ANY non-reflective screen surface will have the same issue. At least with the DP1 you are starting with a rather crisp image, at least that is our opinion.

9" Small LCD Monitor, On Camera Field Monitor - the DP1 by SmallHD (http://www.smallhd.com/dp1/display.php)

BTW: If you click on any of the photos on our site you will see the original untouched photo.

We are keeping our eye on OLED technology, but it is very expensive at the moment. Maybe Apple's rumored OLED hand-held will help drive down the prices. We can only hope.

-reed