So let me get this straight.... The timecode on the camcorders is just the counter of the DV tape or similar tape depending on each camcorder's format, right? Do the camcorders automatically detect? Like if you eject a tape that was say.... 00:15:00 (15 minutes I believe?).... and then input it back in, will it automatically show up on the camcorder as 15 minutes again?

I am unsure really what the timecode is... Hope someone can help me.

Do a search, this topic has been extensively covered. Timecode is an absolute address and does not change and can not be reset. Consumer VCR's count an electronic pulse and apply it as total run time. The run times can be reset etc. and are useless for editing. Please do a search.

Ok. I did a search for timecode on the forums and found some advice, but still have questions remain unanswered. I am confused about the timecode and resets. I know that when you pop a VHS tape into a VCR, the counter starts... so the tape is 1hr30mins long, and you fast foward to say the middle of the tape, it'll show something like 00:00:45:00 (45 minutes or around there). When you take the tape OUT and put back in, the counter resets to 00:00:00:00....

Now timecode on the other hand ... does timecode only refer to DV casettes then and are fixed meaning that the timecode will NEVER change, so the minute you pop in a DV cassette, the time will always be where you left off or where the tape is at? I am confused...

<<<-- Originally posted by David Ho : so the tape is 1hr30mins long, and you fast foward to say the middle of the tape, it'll show something like 00:00:45:00 (45 minutes or around there). When you take the tape OUT and put back in, the counter resets to 00:00:00:00.... -->>>

If you make sure that your are before the end of the timecode, subsequent tapings will begin at the timecode under the head. If you move past the end of the timecode, it cannot see the existing timecode and will reset to 00:00:00:00. When you take the tape out and put it back in, make sure you rewind it far enough to be inside the previous recording.

To be safe, always record an extra 10 seconds before taking the tape out. Then, when you put the tape back in, rewind it until you are in the middle of that 10 second spot.

Most VHS VCR do not use TC. The VCR counts pulses recorded to the tape. Each pulse is identical and the total run time (hours, minutes, seconds) is just the summation of the pulses. That's why you can reset to zero on most VHS VCR's.

Most prosumer and all pro VTR's use a form of timecode. The TC recorded to mini DV is an absolute address and is unique. The TC info contains the full address (hours, minutes, seconds and frames). That is why the TC can not be reset by pushing a button. The VTR uses the TC to maintain accuracy during playback, recording and editing. Once the VTR plays back previously recorded TC the counter will start displaying the absolute address, just like Edward says.

"If you move past the end of the timecode, it cannot see the existing timecode and will reset to 00:00:00:00."

So, what you're saying is that if you say, record 30 minutes, but you somehow foward past that 30 minutes, meaning past the timecode, it will then start back at 00:00:00:00? What happens if you then start recording again? Is this irreversible and bad?

Cause what I planned on doing was, since the tape is about 60 minutes total. I would RECORD 30 minutes of raw footage, edit it to about 10-15 minutes, then EXPORT back the edited footage back onto the tape where I still have space/storage... But to do this, wouldn't I need to go past the "timecode" ?

Normally with DV camcorders, when you eject a tape before recording all the way to the end, an insert it again, the timecode is reset. Most folks don't like this as it will mess up the video capture process during editing. I can understand why you would want to have those time code breaks, as you state for separating your raw video and edited piece on one tape.

Most DV camcorders will have "rec search - / +" buttons somewhere on the body. As I recall, you're using a GL2. They're on there. These buttons will slightly rewind or fast forward a tape frame by frame while you're in record-pause mode. When you insert a tape, use "rec search -" to find the most recent frames of video in order to pick up the previous timecode. Use the "rec search +" button to skip past a short section of unrecorded tape if you want to force a timecode break at that point. Hope this helps,

David, I can appreciate your desire to save resources and tape costs. However, putting finished edits back on the tape with camera original footage is not a good idea. If anything happens to that tape (lost, stolen, damaged, etc.) you have not only lost your finished product, but also the original footage and any chance of rebuilding your project. Spend the $3 or $4 and use a new tape for your finished projects.

Jeff, I'll take your advice. I would ultimately have to use my raw footage on the tape more wisely. I guess I would just have to film more things.

But now, that means if the tape holds a max of 60 minutes or so, that means for every project I do, if its a short film, documentary, or recreational, and if I tend to edit it, I would have to film everything close to 60 minutes to use up all of the footage!

I understand the timecode a little better. Could this explain why sometimes when I fast foward or rewind on different DV/Hi8 tapes a long time ago when I had a Sony TRV22 (where the footage was Hi8), if I fast fowarded past where I had record, the timecode just pauses. The rewind/fastfoward will freeze until a few minutes later, and the timecode comes back again. I am unsure whether this is related to timecode....

So, the best advice is just to maximize the tape and never to fast foward/rewind past the timecode right or else you'll get the breaks/resets? What happens if this does occur? Like what happens during the editing process and is it bad/irreversible?

If you have multiple TC breaks on your camera original footage it makes batch capture impossible and makes more work for the editor. It's always best to do it right the first time. If possible, try to keep your TC continious.

I see.... I'm still a little confused and worried, though.

I just don't get like... so, if you mess up ONCE anytime and cause the timecode to break by either fast fowarding or rewinding too far...then it's too late? Nothing you can do?

David if you are worried about time code breaks you should try a capture program called Scenalyzer (http://www.scenalyzer.com). Scenalyzer uses optical scene detection which bypasses the "timecode" and captures the scenes based on changes in the images. It also allows you to capture 4 channel audio, saving Audio 2 as a seperate .wav file, as well as export still images directly from the tape. For $33 it's a great value tool that any PC based NLE system shouldn't be without.

1. OK, what happens if you want to view your footage via the camcorder VCR mode itself, then you fast foward up PAST the footage, passing the timecode or counter... For example, you record 18 minutes, then you foward through the VCR and foward to about 20 minutes. Then you realize you've made a mistake.... would this result in a "code break" and become undoable or uncorrectable?

OR

2. If I record 18 minutes, then foward to 20:00 (where no footage is present, blank), then record there. Will I result in TWO timecodes or the timecode will completely mess up?

1. Just viewing the tape? Nope, no problems with that.

2. You'll wind up with the timecode starting over at zero at the new point. In other words, a new timecode separate from the previous one.

So, will you then have two timecodes then?

In a sense, yes. The second segment will begin at 00:00:00:00 .

What happens with two timecodes? Does it show it via camcorder VCR or after capturing to computer? I guess then if it shows up as two after capturing, then it will cause conflict through an NLE program (vegas/premiere/pinnacle/etc)... ?

And, there is one last question/mystery that remains unsolved.. I wrote it in my previous notes, but still no successful answer to be found. This incident occurs back when I had my 1997 Sony TRV22 and a camcorder I had borrowed from school which was I believe a Canon ZR20. On certain occasions of error, when I fast foward or rewind on either/both the DV/Hi8 tapes ...If I fast fowarded past where I had record, the timecode just pauses. The rewind/fastfoward will freeze until a few minutes later, and the timecode comes back again. I guess an easy way to put this is when I recorded some footage -- on certain instances, I would try to rewind or fastfoward, but the timecode/counter just froze until a few minutes later, it resumes. It seemed like I had to fastfoward/rewind up to a certain "part" perhaps.... It's weird cause it happened on both a Hi8 and DV tapes.

David,

The timecode used by DV/D8 etc is not an actual timecode as with Beta. With Beta the timecode is recorded on a seperate space and as Jeff said earlier is locked to an absolute address. With miniDV the timecode is not locked and is mearly a time counter that is set down as data is recorded. The timecode freezes when there is no data on that portion of the tape, VHS does the same thing whereas video formats with a locked timecode will keep rolling as the time code is seperate from the video data.

Adrian, what you're referring to are the differences between SMPTE timecode and DV timecode. VHS may have SMPTE timecode recorded to a spare linear audio track or VITC timecode. DV timecode is an absolute address, just not recorded to a sperate track. DV timecode is multiplexed with the video signal. VHS machines count control pulses that are recorded to a separate track. The control pulses are identical are counted sequentially to create hours, minutes and seconds.

The VHS counter can be reset to zero at any time and the counter starts over. DV timecode is not user re-setable on most cameras. DV timecode will reset if the tape is ejected, stopped and FF etc. as previously stated.

Ok, but what will happens with the dual or two timecodes being present? Does it show it through the camcorder (on VCR/playback mode) or after capturing to computer? I mean, would it show up as two "times" after capturing. What conflicts will arise from this when viewed through a video editing program such as Vegas, PP, Avid, etc?

What two timecodes? I don't follow what you're saying.

Ken stated that it would "begin at 00:00:00:00" again.... wouldn't there be two timecodes?

Your confusion is purely semantic. It's probably easier for you to think of timecode as a "counter". The "counter" will reset to zero if there's an intervening blank space between recorded clips.

Ken has statement is much better than thinking of it as "two timecodes." It's the same timecode, re-set to the zero point.

So, the timecode will just reset again if this occurs. What will happen if you have this happen and try to import to the computer and edit from there? Timecode conflicts?

David,
This is really such a simple matter that at this point the best learning medium for you will be 10 mins of experimentation. Record two clips to a new unrecorded tape and then try to capture them with your editor. All of your current and prospective questions will be answered.

Well the reason I am asking the questions that I do is try to learn from really other's experiences. I also want to be safe and ensure that I am doing it properly. I am afraid if I try what you said, I'll ruin tape (which I don't have much of right now, I need to get some more), and then I might mess up everything else. I just want to make sure I know all the before-hand dangers or correct methods before I do anything crazy...

You ask a lot of questions. As a newbie myself, I've had some experience here with your problems and I'll try to help.

1. Let's say you tape 8 minutes of footage and the time code gets to 8:00:00. If you record again (past the existing time code), the counter will go back to 0:00:00.

2. The tape isn't "ruined" by doing so. It makes it slightly harder to capture video to your computer (e.g., Pinnacle Studio has difficulty capturing short segments)., but Scenalyzer will capture it with no problem.

3. For example, when shooting "family movies," you often shoot something, then show someone else, then go back to shooting. I have tapes that start at 0:00:00. Go to 24 minutes. Then start at 0:00:00 again to start over. Then starts over again.

4. The advantage of continuous timecode is that you can refer to scenes merely by timecode. If you filmed your daughter's birthday party at 0:00:00 and your son's birthday party at 30:00:00, it is easy to find which ever party you wanted to capture merely by telling your editor that you wanted to capture starting at 30:00:00. OTOH, if there is a break in timecode, you have to capture using a program that can handle breaks in timecode.

5. Storage is cheap. Buy a bigger hard drive and capture entire tapes at once, and you won't have to worry about time code. Similarly, buy multiple tapes so that your daughter's birthday party and son's birthday party are on separate tapes.

Trying this out is really painless. Tape something. Pause. Change scenary. Tape again. Then stop the tape, fast forward for a few seconds. Tape again. The timecode display in your camcorder will be continuous through the first scene transition. But will go back to 0:00:00 at the second transition.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : David, I can appreciate your desire to save resources and tape costs. However, putting finished edits back on the tape with camera original footage is not a good idea. If anything happens to that tape (lost, stolen, damaged, etc.) you have not only lost your finished product, but also the original footage and any chance of rebuilding your project. Spend the $3 or $4 and use a new tape for your finished projects. -->>>

I got one for you. I worked on a production once where the director, the demented director may I add, decided that once the edit was done, NOBODY would ever be able to change any of her decisions. So unbeknownst to anyone else involved in the production, she made the broadcast copies by copying over the camera masters.

Haw. Perhaps an over-confident and over-resolute lady, eh? That's analogous to Cortez burning his ships after reaching the "New World".