Why do you want to pay for major upgrades several times a year? Adobe has an 18 month upgrade cycle on major releases.


Hmm, I'm not sure in my prior post I said anything about *wanting* to pay for more frequent updates. My point was simple. Considering it has been MORE than the 'usual' 12 months or so between releases, Sony hasn't appeared to made too many enhancements or changes.

Another way of saying this is.... Since it took longer than usual to come out with a release, why didn't Sony pump out more features and/or enhancements?

Jon

Sony does a pretty good job of adding free updates to its products as the technology changes. Doing that costs money in between new versions. I can imagine some bean counter somewhere saying, "Dudes you need to get a new version out as we are starting to lose money on the old version." I am frankly thankful that they are providing what is to me a very stable product with timely in between updates at, compared to Adobe pricing, a fair price.

Sony does a pretty good job of adding free updates to its products as the technology changes. Doing that costs money in between new versions. I can imagine some bean counter somewhere saying, "Dudes you need to get a new version out as we are starting to lose money on the old version." I am frankly thankful that they are providing what is to me a very stable product with timely in between updates at, compared to Adobe pricing, a fair price.

I completely agree with this post. I'd just like to see a few areas of the product stepped up a bit feature/performance wise to stand up a little bit better side-by-side with FCP, however SCS has a very good reputation, overall, and the product the provide for the price they sell it for is very much a fair value offering and probably the absolute most bang for the buck.

Jon

I work primarily with DV PAL video mastered to either DV PAL itself or to MP4 for web use and use Vegas 7.0e for all my editing and post. Should I be making an upgrade to Vegas 9 at all?

By the way, are Sony seriously promoting the darker color palette as a *new feature* on Vegas Pro 9?

Good point Ali. Changing the screen color is hardly a feature. What's more, it show what lame upgrade this really is. I get the feeling that Sony puts very little money or staff into Vegas. This program seems to be treated as a stepchild.

Too bad, because in many ways it is the best NLE out there. If I were Sony, I'd put more attention into converting Premiere and Final Cut users. I'd also work harder to capture first-time editors. Finally, porting a Mac version would also help change Vegas' place in the industry.

Paul, I would submit that you are incorrect. While there may be new features you don't need, that doesn't mean plenty of time and money wasn't put into this upgrade. Things to consider:

better handling of large (gigapixel) images
Max of 2kx2k upped to 4kx4k
New 32-bit processing mode
Lots of new workflow enhancements
Ability to read Red files natively

etc...

Ed, I certainly respect your opinion and consider you a major asset to the industry, but IMO, a new version needs to offer more than this does. This seems like it would qualify to be Vegas 8.5, but certainly not 9. The fact that Sony is touting "a darker color palette" as a feature lens evidence to the fact that this upgrade is lacking in substance for all but a few.

I completely agree with this post. I'd just like to see a few areas of the product stepped up a bit feature/performance wise to stand up a little bit better side-by-side with FCP, however SCS has a very good reputation, overall, and the product the provide for the price they sell it for is very much a fair value offering and probably the absolute most bang for the buck.

Jon

I'm curious to hear how it trails FCP in terms of performance. I am relatively new to Final Cut but so far my experience has been very disappointing, to say the least. It has been so slow that I find that I cannot use it for any of my revenue generating endeavors. On the same hardware (I've benchmarked it on my 2.33GHz macbook pro and a quad core "Hack" Pro), I find vegas 8.0c to absolutely obliterate Final Cut (Express) in terms of speed. And as far as features go, I guess Final Cut Studio offers Color, which has some advanced color correction tools that Vegas may not be able to match, but for pure editing of audio and video from what I've seen Vegas offers features that greatly speed up the process, plus, you can edit almost everything in realtime on the timeline in vegas - the rendering in Final Cut is a real bummer.

I'm looking forward to the new features in 9.0, but lord help us, don't use Adobe as the yardstick. Adobe sells a lot of software, of course, most of it to one-trick-pony Apple users who have little other choice, from where it then bleeds into the Windows market. Nice product leverage if you can get it. Certainly, Microsoft notices - check out their lame attempt at a CS4 product with Microsoft Studio Expression.

Basically, Adobe is famous for pushing powerful programs with lousy user interfaces on a captive market segment - the better to get them acclimated to a non-intuitive system that once learned becomes a ball-and-chain.

This stick-in-the-mud-phenomenon is well known - you have people who still think emacs is the greatest text editor since sliced bread even though an equally exeprienced person using a integrated development environment will out produce them.

Microsoft on the other hand is famous for pushing marginal programs with glitzy interfaces - you can figure them out intuitively as you realize their limitedness.

Two different business models.

But we're talking SCS here. You're getting an extremely powerful product, and with the benefit of a well thought-out intuitive user interface too. That's not an easy task - and if more than anything the raison de etre of Vegas. If SCS wants to allow you to optionally display in a flat gray to appeal to some FCP folks, fine, but it's a freebie feature of no significance. Don't make Vegas into an Adobe. Sell Vegas into the Apple platform if you will, but don't change its nature to make it work like Adobe - otherwise you might as well just give up the business and hand it over to them.

I think Vegas's issues are related to the fact that were a little behind in coming to market, coming from a small private company. I think Sony saw the innovation going on in Madison and decided they'd go with something that had a vision of both power and elegance for the casual to semipro and light professional markets. I think they're doing a great job.

Good afternoon,

I came from Ppr and adobe suite (1.5) and I find Vegas a much more useful program for me, solvong problems i could not in adobe.

I hope Vegas stays unique and on the same path.

I orderred my update and look forward to the additions. the price is hardly more,if at all, than an evening out on the town!!

IMO, a new version needs to offer more than this does. This seems like it would qualify to be Vegas 8.5, but certainly not 9. The fact that Sony is touting "a darker color palette" as a feature lens evidence to the fact that this upgrade is lacking in substance for all but a few.

A darker color UI is something that has been requested by far more than just a "few" on the Sony Vegas forum. I can't fault Sony for mentioning in their marketing materials that this request has been fulfilled. In addition to this relatively small change, Vegas v9 has some significant new features and it deserves a full number upgrade.

Apparently, you feel that since Sony is taking pre-orders for this version, you are somehow entitled to "pre-complain." Why don't we all just wait until May 11th when it's on our desktops and see if there really is anything to complain about.

By the way, are Sony seriously promoting the darker color palette as a *new feature* on Vegas Pro 9?

Yes.
This is a feature that MANY have been asking for for quite a long while. A darker UI tends to be easier on the eyes. There is a whole section on VASST.COM on how to fake the color change for previous versions by changing the colors in XP/Vista.

Well... you no longer have to jerk around with XP/Vista color schemes because you can now control it directly in Vegas.

People wanted it. Sony gave it, and they have the right to tell us it's now there.

(EDIT: I see John beat me to the answer!)

I've upgraded to a new release every time since Vegas 4. And as a hobbyist who is not a heavy user of Vegas, every time I thing long and hard about the upgrade. Fortunately, Sony makes it's fairly inexpensive to upgrade.

After using an upgrade, I've always been very happy I made the decision to upgrade. There's only been a few releases that I thought I must have. But for Vegas 9, I'm really having a tough time justifying this one. About the only thing that I'm interested in is the potential benefit of handling larger size pictures on the timeline. But shouldn't have Sony fixed this a long time ago in a free upgrade or a previous major release? I've had the problem with many large pictures on a timeline, and Sony's tech support did nothing to resolve my issues.

There's no doubt Vegas 9 will look and feel cooler than 8, and I'll think it was a worthwhile investment. The little workflow enhancements are always a pleasure. But this time, I don't know. I just have to wonder what's going on at Sony that they are compelled to provide such a limited feature upgrade and call it a major release. And I also wonder how many of the original Sonic Foundry engineers are still at Sony and working on Vegas.

For me, the other thing that's going on is the whole Microsoft Vista nonsense. Vegas is the only app that's keeping me in the PC world. If it weren't for Vegas, I probably would switch to a Mac laptop for my next PC, which is not far off. If I dump the PC, I lose my investment in Vegas, plugins, and educational material. Yes I know I can run Vegas on a Mac, but I think I'm just looking for trouble with that solution.

So, that's my dilemma with upgrading to Vegas 9.

You expressed it well for me David. To me this is a middling upgrade.

Wow, Red support. I know lots of Red users (not). Wow, a new transition. That's right, ONE transition. That in and of itself is almost insulting.

So lots of people have been asking for the darker interface? I have been posting in this forum for a couple of years, never once heard it mentioned John. I'm sure what you said is true, but come on, lots of people? I'm not trying to start a debate, but please, lets get real.

I have heard people BEGGING for hardware support for better preview, or anything to improve preview performance.

Jeff, for the type of work that I do, this is a significant upgrade, for you, not so much. You are entitled to your opinion. A negative opinion, but an opinion nevertheless.

I for one can't see any reason to have an NLE edit 4K video. What's the point other than being able to slap the rediculous "Support RED" logo on the promo material. Like every other NLE on the market it's probably going to suck at working with 4K files. There is no point what so ever going over 2K on a timeline (and even that is rediculous for 99,99% of Vegas users). Editing .r3d is just such a sad waste of good CPU power. I suspect RED's RAW wavelet is a big part of the global warming problem by now.

But I'm really excited about the new support for referencing using DVI. If they do that right it's a dream come true. AAF in and out is also a very good thing.

You expressed it well for me David. To me this is a middling upgrade.

Wow, Red support. I know lots of Red users (not). Wow, a new transition. That's right, ONE transition. That in and of itself is almost insulting.

So lots of people have been asking for the darker interface? I have been posting in this forum for a couple of years, never once heard it mentioned John. I'm sure what you said is true, but come on, lots of people? I'm not trying to start a debate, but please, lets get real.

I have heard people BEGGING for hardware support for better preview, or anything to improve preview performance.

Yes, I echo Jeff's post here 100%...

I'm not so much putting down the things they've added, just what they've left off.. Same as Jeff, I've been here a few years and have *NEVER* heard a person complain about the color scheme and have seen, literally, countless complaints on video preview performance/quality issues... If SCS is so good about listening to their customers, where were they on this one?

Not to mention that this update (from 8 to 9) has taken longer than from 6 to 7 and from 7 to 8.. I was just personally under the impression the fact this update was taking a bit longer to come out would really knock my socks off...

Instead I get RedOne Support, Gigapixel Image support (never really heard of this one lacking either, I always just frame up my stuff in photoshop prior), and a grey interface?

I'm going to likely order it because I'm a sucker for an upgrade and I happen to really like Sony... I'm just left very underwhelmed by this release.. I'll be a convert if when it comes out it turns out it shows a signficiant performance increease along with increased stability...

Jon

I for one can't see any reason to have an NLE edit 4K video. .

Do you want to see what the mention Red and 4K are doing for Vegas? Here's a quote from the Avid Liquid forums:

Interesting, with support for Red, Vegas Pro just got a lot more pro.

http://forums.pinnaclesys.com/forums/thread/302316.aspx


You may not do Red, and I sure as heck don't either but in spite of that, this is NOT a bad thing at all. Vegas is a great program and really needs to gain a solid foot hold at a higher and more professional level. Moves like this are going to do just that.

To top it all off, if this was a 300 or 400 dollar upgrade then I might just gripe a little too. But after the $50 off it only amounts to an additional $184. I don't know about you but for me that amounts to mere pennies per day which will pay for itself in no time at all. I really don't see any validity to the complaints here at all.

A darker color UI is something that has been requested by far more than just a "few" on the Sony Vegas forum. I can't fault Sony for mentioning in their marketing materials that this request has been fulfilled. In addition to this relatively small change, Vegas v9 has some significant new features and it deserves a full number upgrade.

Apparently, you feel that since Sony is taking pre-orders for this version, you are somehow entitled to "pre-complain." Why don't we all just wait until May 11th when it's on our desktops and see if there really is anything to complain about.

LMAO. Sources, please. I somehow have missed the clamoring for a gray background.

Why wait? Will there be new features on May 1th that haven't been revealed? If so, I will address them in my post-release complaint. For this pre-complaint I'm only dealing with the pre-release list of features.

I somehow have missed the clamoring for a gray background.



Obviously you did.

In fact if you buy Spot's book on Vegas pro 8 it comes with a sample dvd and in it (among other things) you will find a work up of different xp color schemes specifically for the use of changing Vegas's ui color. Sony has fixed it so we don't have to do this anymore.

EDIT: In fact... here's a quote from the vegas board: A few years ago, if I remember rightly, Spot put out some GUI color combinations that we could use ourselves to transform our GUI into a darker palette. I'm still using mine, but I forgot how to do it. (yes, age!) Does anyone remember that or what the drill was?

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=649463&Replies=16

LMAO. Sources, please. I somehow have missed the clamoring for a gray background.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/what-happens-vegas/106479-darken-vegass-user-interface.html

This is one post here but it HAS been mentioned MANY times across the various forums. The solution was to change the Windows Theme which led to these:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/what-happens-vegas/98165-scroll-bar-went-missing.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/what-happens-vegas/95798-missing-scroll-bars.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/what-happens-vegas/77982-missing-scrollbars.html

LMAO. Sources, please. I somehow have missed the clamoring for a gray background.

Why wait? Will there be new features on May 1th that haven't been revealed? If so, I will address them in my post-release complaint. For this pre-complaint I'm only dealing with the pre-release list of features.

The darker colors aren't really much more than a perceived 'coolness'. Too much or too little contrast is what bothers my eyes. I have to turn up the brightness in photoshop as the menu text against a charcoal background is extremely irritating. A neutral gray works much better for me.

To anyone complaining about the price and/or time between releases, here's my order history (and I usually get it the day it's released).

May 10, 2004
Upgrade to Vegas 5 +DVD 2 @ $199.00

May 13, 2005
Upgrade to Vegas 6 +DVD 3 @ $199.95

September 13, 2006
Vegas 7 + DVD 4 @ $134.95

September 10, 2007
Upgrade to Vegas Pro 8 + DVD 5 @ $134.95

Anyone know if Vegas Pro 9 will now allow velocity ramp up/down greater than 300%?

Also seeing the upgrade to Vegas 9 from Movie Studio is $499, wouldn't it make sense to purchase Movie Studio for $53 http://www.videoguys.com/Item/Sony+Vegas+Movie+Studio+9/0303039335D46535.aspx Then pay $499? You'd save about $50... Are there any restrictions on when movie studios would have to have been registered by?

Good evening,

It was stated, and rightly so, that adding the 4000k and suc it will bring other users to Vegas.

This is true and what is important about that, the more users you bring the more pressures will come to bear to make Vegas even more sophisticated. I will never use that but if it helps in the long haul to add more useful features then that is awesome.

I could really care less if there were 50 transitions, 99.9% all look cheesey anyway, and if I really wanted to I would make my own transitions to suit my project.

the most important of them all is the stabilized use of 64 bit, that is worth the expense in itself. Now, if I am going to have troubles with it like 8A then i will be ripped and join the complaining list!!!

I wait patiently.

I want them to buy out Twixtor and add it to 9.1!! that would make Vegas really special and draw a huge following!

Vegas is the only app that's keeping me in the PC world. If it weren't for Vegas, I probably would switch to a Mac laptop for my next PC, which is not far off...So, that's my dilemma with upgrading to Vegas 9.Same here, the only reason I still have a PC around is Vegas and Acid. But Sony is notorious for only making software for PCs, so I doubt we'll ever see a Mac version. In the end, that's what is making me seriously balk at the upgrade to Vegas 9. But the Vegas Pro Production Assistant is keeping me in the game. The listed features are very cool for the stuff I do.

It's not a simple matter to just port something over to the MAC, particularly something as involved as an NLE. Vegas is and always will be a PC application, it relies heavily on the underlying Windows APIs. Porting it over to the MAC would require a complete rewrite and that just isn't going to happen.

I have Vegas 6. How do I upgrade to 9? Do I have to buy 7 and 8?

I have Vegas 6. How do I upgrade to 9? Do I have to buy 7 and 8?

No, you can go straight from v6 to v9.

Anyone know if Vegas Pro 9 will now allow velocity ramp up/down greater than 300%?

It works the same as previous versions. You can go up to 300% using a velocity envelope. You can go up to 400% using the playback rate (either right-click the clip and choose Properties or hold down the CTRL key while resizing the event). Plus you can combine the two to get up to 12x at once.

I think most people here are misunderstanding those of us who are 'complaining' about the features in this release..

From what I can tell, nobody is really complaining that the features added are useless.. I'm perfectly happy to see RED support, support for larger images (Gigapixel images? How many is that anyway compared to my 10 "mega"pixel cameras resolution?), and a new grey interface that can be easily manipulated... Nobody here has a problem with those additions..

The problem is that when SCS has a major product release and this is ALL that you see in the update, features that mostly don't apply to the majority of users, many of us are scratching our heads...

Jon

...support for larger images (Gigapixel images? How many is that anyway compared to my 10 "mega"pixel cameras resolution?)...

One guy on the Sony Vegas forum read that it's 40K x 25K.
Here's a link (http://gigapan.org/viewGigapanFullscreen.php?auth=033ef14483ee899496648c2b4b06233c) to one to give you an idea of the size and zoom capability :-)
Here's the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigapixel_image) definition of a gigapixel image.

One guy on the Sony Vegas forum read that it's 40K x 25K.


That's correct, 40,000 times 25,000 = 1 billion

Gigapixel images (or just really large panoramas) are easy to create using "AutoPano Pro" or the CS4 version of Phtotoshop. Although, I much prefer AutoPano Pro. You just take a bunch of overlapping images, throw them at the program and it will automatically and seamlessly stitch them together into one large image.

AutoPano Pro - Panorama stitching software - Panoramic photo software - image stitching (http://www.autopano.net)

One guy on the Sony Vegas forum read that it's 40K x 25K.
Here's a link (http://gigapan.org/viewGigapanFullscreen.php?auth=033ef14483ee899496648c2b4b06233c) to one to give you an idea of the size and zoom capability :-)
Here's the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigapixel_image) definition of a gigapixel image.

hehe, jeeez... I'm really glad they added support for this. :-) 150 TIMES!! the resolution of a 6 megapixel camera... What that probably tells me is that Vegas is likely to handle all still images better than before which is good... It's just not what I have been waiting 15 months for...

Jon

Have you zoomed in and checked out the wall of media and also the cameras on the tower. It looks really cold where ever this was shot.

It looks really cold where ever this was shot.

Wild stab in the dark, but how about January 20th 2009 on the West Steps of the US Capitol, Washington DC?!

I've seen requests for preview improvements mentioned a number of times in this thread. And I certainly agree that's needed.

Well, that was a big thing actually mentioned at NAB. I even talked with one of the SCS engineers for more details about it. They are still using Video for Windows, but they now have optimized multi-core/multi-CPU rendering for the preview display. He said it would improve preview a lot on new quad core machines, and he even felt it would make a noticable difference on my ancient dual-Xeon hyperthreaded machine.

On the dual-Quad machine I played with there, it was playing 4K RED footage in a 2K project perfectly smooth for me at Best (full).

Yeah Ian, as soon as I posted I thought about it.

Cheers

I've seen requests for preview improvements mentioned a number of times in this thread. And I certainly agree that's needed.

Well, that was a big thing actually mentioned at NAB. I even talked with one of the SCS engineers for more details about it. They are still using Video for Windows, but they now have optimized multi-core/multi-CPU rendering for the preview display. He said it would improve preview a lot on new quad core machines, and he even felt it would make a noticable difference on my ancient dual-Xeon hyperthreaded machine.

On the dual-Quad machine I played with there, it was playing 4K RED footage in a 2K project perfectly smooth for me at Best (full).

that's great to hear - I'm hoping this makes editing native 5d footage on the timeline that much easier. I purchased neo scene and it helps a lot, but if i could skip that step it would speed things in my workflow immensely.

>>>optimized multi-core/multi-CPU rendering for the preview display. He said it would improve preview a lot on new quad core machines<<<

At last an improvement that I REALLY want and would upgrade for - when I've seen other users' confirmation that it makes a noticeable difference, of course!

Simon - sorry mate - couldn't resist!

I agree that improved preview performance would be nice. If Vegas could match the preview performance of Edius I would be pretty darn happy.

I agree that improved preview performance would be nice. If Vegas could match the preview performance of Edius I would be pretty darn happy.

My work flow is Edius for Video, Vegas for audio and DVDA for authoring. This release has nothing in it for me but I usually skip a year for upgrades anyway since my main use is audio from the days of Vegas audio. Only difference is single track AVCHD which is Vegas.

Ron Evans

The cost of upgrades has always been quite reasonable, so I upgrade regardless. There is always some new feature, no matter how seemingly insignificant, that allows me to be more productive.

The cost of upgrades has always been quite reasonable, so I upgrade regardless. There is always some new feature, no matter how seemingly insignificant, that allows me to be more productive.

As I said, my main use of Vegas is as a multitrack audio editor and in this respect it hasn't changed for years. I upgraded to Vegas 8 to get AVCHD and DVDA and the next release will be one I will get so that I am not too far out of sequence.

Ron Evans

I have bought the upgrade, because I also always find something new and worth the price and update automatically. My question now is, what is the proper way to upgrade so that I won't loose my preference settings -- or is that still not possible?

My question now is, what is the proper way to upgrade so that I won't loose my preference settings -- or is that still not possible?

Remember that 9 will be a totally separate installation from any other versions of Vegas you have installed. Therefore you'll need to set your preferences as you desire after installing the new version.

That new, eh? :)
Will it help if I make screen prints of my current settings or will the new version have preferences laid out in so many different ways to not make the screen prints worth the trouble?

Paul, there's only a few places in Prefs where the settings are important and I make those changes a part of the initial set-up when I install a new version.
You definitely don't want your Temp or Pre-render directories to point to C:\ My Documents.

You definitely don't want your Temp or Pre-render directories to point to C:\ My Documents.
I'm experienced enough to know that one, but some other settings are items that I discovered in these forums as settings that helped improve my playback performance etc. and since I just emulated something I have little understanding of but proved to be a true improvement, I wouldn't remember what I had ever done.

It won't hurt me to make those screen prints.

On the issue of the darker GUI, I must say I am looking forward to it. If someone has the impression that it is an issue hardly ever mentioned here, I'd like to say that it became hardly worth bringing up anymore since nothing was being done about it; it would be like beating a dead horse. I work with three large, wide angle monitors and I work at least 12 hrs a day, often more, and the glare coming from those monitors does ware me out. My other application is just the opposite; all blacks and I spend equal time on both. Getting back to the black one always comes as a huge relief, even a mood changer.

...but some other settings are items that I discovered in these forums as settings that helped improve my playback performance etc....

Paul, now you have me curious.
What specific settings are you referring to?