Please excuse me but I am a "still photographer" with 20 year of documentary experience, I have recently run across two stories that need to be told on film. So what should I do? My gut feeling is that I should just go all out and buy a DVX100x (I would rather have the best raw footage and worry about the post production later) but from the documentaries that I have seen, the camera, is of not much significance. So maybe I shoudl just get a DCV80 and not tax my disposable income?

The ultimate venue for my projects are Public teliviison and dvd. But I do not want to shut down the types of viewings.

PS these stores that I want to do are immediate, If I sit around much longer the stories may be lost, forever.

It sounds to me like you could really get into everything that the DVX100 offers. Go for it! The DVC is great camera for the money, though; you will do good work with it as well.

DVC80 only does 60i, which is good for tv. $2,199.95

DVX100(a), gets 30p and 24p and shoots 60i as well. $2,999.95/$3,499.95

For what you need, you could get by with a DVC80 @ 60i, and if you wanted to convert it to 30p you could use Magic Bullet to convert it.


$800 or $1300 more for a DVX100(a) or get a DVC80, I guess it depends on your budget and motives

If it's a doc, consider who is going to buy it. Then see if the want it in 4:3 or widescreen. If it's widescreen they want, then you'll need a 16:9 adaptor, ot a cam that captures good 16:9.

I doubt you'll need a cam with 24P or 30P. So a DVC80 or something similar should work.

If you’re use to the look of 16mm for your documentaries, then the DVX100 is the camera to have (or the DVX100A.) I’ve shot 16mm shorts before, and the DVX100 is extremely comparable to the look of 16mm (in 24p mode.)

Yeah my first response is to just cut the crap and buy the 80 but I have been waiting around for the 30, but then I hate to limit all the possiblities that leaves me with the 100a.

I think what I am gong to do is to rent the 100a for a week shoot enough for a demo and see how much in seed money I can find which will determine my ultimate decision.

Only get the DVC80 if 60i is all you shoot. If you are gong to use Magic Bullet on DVC80 footage, remember it's $1000 piece of software plus is brutal in rendering time, so you are much better off getting a DVX.

Good point Stephen. Magic Bullet is 1000 PLUS the cost of After Effects, and the cost of a fast processor. So all together you’re looking at an additional 1,800 dollars for this approach. And turning interlace footage to progressive footage is never a guaranteed hassle free process anyway (not to mention the fact that the footage can never look as good as true progressive footage.)

I speak from the pain of someone huddled over a Pentium III trying to figure out why FilmFX still has the X$#&#$& red X over my rendered AE footage :)

Too be perfectly honest, I don't know what we are going to do with the film. When I first approached this subject, a government agency which runs this program in conjunction with AFL-CIO they thought I did, that it would be better as a film, but based on th people involved there is no telling at this point as to where the thing will ultimately end up. So I'm am thinking what is the most painless and versital format? Each time I look into answering the question the 100a seems as the way to go. Shoot the damned thing in 24p and figure it out later. Maybe thats the blabberings of a a naive, nyophite but that's the direction my head his sending me.

24fps is the most universal format, hands down.

"Buy the best, and you only cry once."

It seems like you know deep down you want the DVX100 -- that's why you're still struggling with the question. If you settle for one of the lesser models, there are going to come times when you curse yourself for "cheaping out". You'll never regret getting the best, which will have everything you want. But if you settle short of that, you'll regret it every time you use it. Save a little longer and get the camera you really want, or consider buying used.

Yes you are all correct, I know deep down that I must bite the bullet and buy the damned thing.

I am thinking that if I rent one, shoot the demo, prove that i can acutally do this I can beg borrow or steal the money from a sponsor to buy it.

I have done a ton of "award" winning still docs, I just hope my arrogant belief that i can just jump into video is well founded. I mean after all what is a film but a series of still photographs.... Yet in the front of my mind I know there is a lot more to it than that, but they say that ignorance is the best motivation.

dont forget this, if you shoot in 60i you can convert to anything else, But if you shoot in 24p you cant convert up to anything else.

Right now...if you MUST buy in February 2004...you only have one choice...the DVX100A.

There are features through out--12-bit ADC, lens quality, etc.-- that no other camera in its class has.

That said...would you be better off renting a 1/2"CCD (DVC200, DSR390) or 2/3" CCD (HL7, DSR590, SDX900) for this project? If you only have a 2-3 day shoot, why not even rent the DVX100A?

John why would I be concerned about going up to 60i at some later date?

David Feburary is al most over so it will be in March, why is the month so critical? And I thought I mentioned renting for a week to do a demo for the proposal, The actual program thaat I want to document is 21 weeks long. I will be shooting off and all for the entirety of the program.

If is were a shorter period of time I would have just tapped someone else to shoot it.

<<<-- Originally posted by John Gaspain : dont forget this, if you shoot in 60i you can convert to anything else, But if you shoot in 24p you cant convert up to anything else. -->>>

Incorrect. If you shoot in 24P, you can easily convert to PAL, to film, to 60i, to DVD, to high-def... you can convert to anything.

If you shoot in 30P, that's when you're pigeonholed. 30P only converts to 60i, it can't go to PAL or film. 24P is the most universal format there is.

<<<-- Originally posted by John Gaspain : dont forget this, if you shoot in 60i you can convert to anything else, But if you shoot in 24p you cant convert up to anything else. -->>>

Incorrect. If you shoot in 24P, you can easily convert to PAL, to film, to 60i, to DVD, to high-def... you can convert to anything.

If you shoot in 30P, that's when you're pigeonholed. 30P only converts to 60i, it can't go to PAL or film. 24P is the most universal format there is.

NAB is in April. There are widely rumored announcements from Canon. Panasonic appears to have discontinued the DVC200, so I expect a replacement. Rumors also surround Sony.

I don't KNOW what will be announced. But I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see 24p in some models, 12-bit ADC universally (14-bit in Sony's), some 16x9, and possibly some HDV 3-CCD cameras.

So where the DVX100A is the only came in town NOW, in a few months there may be some alternatives. For a long-term real gig, a 1/2"CCD 24p DVX200 could be a good camera to use.

Keep in mind, the lens in a 1/2" CCD camera costs more than the best 1/3" CCD camera complete!

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : <<<-- Originally posted by John Gaspain : dont forget this, if you shoot in 60i you can convert to anything else, But if you shoot in 24p you cant convert up to anything else. -->>>

Incorrect. If you shoot in 24P, you can easily convert to PAL, to film, to 60i, to DVD, to high-def... you can convert to anything.

If you shoot in 30P, that's when you're pigeonholed. 30P only converts to 60i, it can't go to PAL or film. 24P is the most universal format there is. -->>>

my point being, that converting 24p to 30p you are adding frames to the mix, You can do it, but I dont recommend it

<<<-- Originally posted by John Gaspain :

If you shoot in 30P, that's when you're pigeonholed. 30P only converts to 60i, it can't go to PAL or film. 24P is the most universal format there is. -->>>

my point being, that converting 24p to 30p you are adding frames to the mix, You can do it, but I dont recommend it -->>>

Every movie is converted from 24p to 30p/60i for DVD. It actually adds a half frame after every 2 frames.

David, April hey. That works out fine, I can rent a 100a shoot the demo, start fund raising and will be ready to shoot in June. Very cool.

As for the 24p thing, I was really scared for a minute when I saw the post about conversion problems which was the opposite of very thing I understood to be. But it did raise another question why would need to convert 24p to 30i?

There is no 30i. But there is a 30p.

For some reason Avid users seem to cling to the "30i" terminology, wheras the camera manufacturers have standardized on calling it "60i".

So, when someone says "30i" they are most likely referring to "60i".

sorry for not minding my p's and i's.

Hee!