If you do, what settings do you use when you are reimporting files into PPro that you have converted into 24p using DVFilm Maker?

I ask this becuase DVFilm Maker supposedly only supports converting files 20 minutes at a time, and I want to repiece it together into one big file after I run the clips through DVFilm Maker.

Also what audio settings do I use?

(I have already asked this question at the DVFilm Maker forum at yahoo clubs, but my messages never make it onto the messages page.)

Thanks for you time.

Do you need to take audio into DVFilm Maker? Otherwise I would
just not bother. Export a large uncompressed WAV from Premiere
and lay that underneath the smaller clips. I'm assuming that
DVFilm maker is running up against the 4 GB barrier at 18
minutes? Is that an "issue" with DVFilm maker or are you not
running NTFS?

I think its an issue with DVFilm maker becuase the website for it says that its recommended to split the movie into smaller clips.

I spoke with the creator of DVFilm maker, and one interesting note is that in order to get .avi or DV output, you have to use input that is DVtype2 compression. Anything else will result in a .mov output.

I thought this was relevant because most DV is type1 these days.

Has anyone yet exported 16:9 from Premiere Pro that was captured in true 16:9 from say a PDX10? The reason I am asking is, I imported some footage the other night into Premiere Pro in 16:9. Did a short 1 minute piece to test DVFilm and exported it as a DV AVI, again, in 16:9 (project setting were 16:9).

After processing in DVFilm, with "No Letterboxing" selected, the footage changed to 4:3. I can play it in Premiere from the timeline or any media player but it is now in 4:3. There is no mention of what settings to use when starting out with true 16:9 in DVFilm Maker. I have since tried the other settings but with no luck.

In the DVFilm FAQ, there is mention of how to process 16:9 Anamorphic but not true 16:9 native footage. Am I missing something?

Sean McHenry

<<<-- Originally posted by Sean McHenry :

In the DVFilm FAQ, there is mention of how to process 16:9 Anamorphic but not true 16:9 native footage. Am I missing something?

Sean McHenry -->>>

The only reason you play with those setting in DV
Filmmaker is to letterbox the 16:9 footage to 4:3 or to crop 4:3 footage--either setting results in a letterboxed 4:3 image.

If you are working with 16:9 footage and your final destination is a anamorphic dvd--leave the setting to 'no letterbox'.

Did that, didn't work right for me. Still playing with it. And while we are here, why would anyone letterbox 16x9? Is that the side cropping?

Thanks,

Sean

If you run your clips through DVFilmMaker before editing, you still use 30fps in your time line in Premiere 6.5 or Pro. DVFilmMaker does not change the actual frame rate of the video, it just processes your 60i/30fps footage to look more like 24P. In real life what DVFilmMaker does is deinterlace your footage to the effect of 30P.

Instead of running all your clips through DVFilmMaker first and then editing, just edit and run your final rendered AVI project file through DVFilmMaker. This has worked best from what I've seen.

That is the heart of the issue here. If I edit true 16x9 in Premiere, send the finished footage through DVFilm Maker I still need to play it out to the deck. For that I would have to bring the new DVFilm processed footage back into a clean Premiere timeline and play it out to tape. It is the last step that is not working correctly.

When I reimport the DVFilm processed (True 16x9) footage back into Premiere, it is thinking the footage is 4x3 and playing it back to tape stretched vertically and looking like anamorphic footage. It will not play back out as 16x9 to tape.

So, the question is actually, how does one bring in footage in true 16x9 from a DSR-PDX10, edit, process through DVFilm and still play to tape in 16x9?

Anyone actually doing this? What is the whole process you are using?

Here is my workflow since I'm a Macintosh based DV enthusiast/hobbyist.

I shoot video with a 16:9 anamorphic adapter lens.

I bring the footage into iMovie to edit(yes everything looks skinny while I'm editing.).

When I'm finally done editing--I export a complete full quality Quicktime Movie file to be processed with DV Filmmaker.(No letterbox is selected)

I then export from the resulting Quicktime movie file to a MPEG-2 , 16x9 file for use in DVD Studio Pro to author an anamorphic DVD. (I still have to select 16x9 in the authoring program)

If I were to go back to tape and I wanted my footage to be viewable on 4x3 sets...I can

a) use a plug in from Virtix which letterboxes the 16x9 footage

or

b) peform the same function in DVFilmmaker.

The resulting file is a 4:3 file with the image letterboxed for viewing on 4:3 sets.

PDX10 is new to me, what is the native resolution of the footage? I don't think DVFilmMaker would be compatible with "true" 16:9, only the fake kind which is really 4:3 but squeezed.

You might want to look into another type of deinterlacer, perhaps a plug in for After Effects or Premiere that will work with the native footage.

The 16:9 settings in DVFilmMaker I don't believe are the real kind, but maybe there are FAQ's on their site.

John,
I appreciate the workflow. That's what I am looking for from a Premiere user. What is their workflow.

So John, what if you want to go to tape as a true 16x9 video? That's where I am stuck.

Also need to know from any of the experts about the forums, what way is the least lossy? If I go back and forth from a true 16x9 to anamorphic, don't I loose pixes in the anamorphic version? This is what I am trying to avoid.

It's my understanding that in anamorphic, you have a fixed 720x480 for the DV format itself. The way around it is to tell all the software the pixels are fatter than they should be. That is, change their individual aspect ratio to something higher.

That doesn't raise the count. It is the opposite, if you project an anamrophic image on a big screen, those pixels are going to be pretty wide compared to a true 16x9 image which has more actual pixels. I had heard 16x9 is something on the order of 850x something.

I'll have to look that up again. Dennis may have something though. I saeem to remember Boyd telling me in another thread that since the DV format is set at 720x480, I should treat the footage as if it were anamorphic anyway as it is actually recorded and played out as anamorphic.

I think he also mentioned there is some code in the file header that sets the pixel aspect ratio. In my original issue, I could import footage from the camera, edit, send it out and watch it in 16x9 on the camera and other monitors. When I sent it through DVFilm maker, it came back out as 4x3 footage and I could no longer see it on any monitors as 16x9. It would also not record back to tape in 16x9 after processing so I will try using the anamorphic settings.

If I find the correct pathway, I'll post a potential workflow for the PDX10 and Premiere and Avid too. I use both depending on the output I need.

Sean

Sean

<<<-- Originally posted by Sean McHenry :
It's my understanding that in anamorphic, you have a fixed 720x480 for the DV format itself. The way around it is to tell all the software the pixels are fatter than they should be. That is, change their individual aspect ratio to something higher.

Sean -->>>

I guess I'm out of my league here..

I've heard of DV tape players that letterbox 16x9 footage on the fly during playback(A "flag" that tells the deck that the footage is 16x9 and outputs a version correct for the monitor connected to it)

In my case, I have a widescreen 16x9 set--so when I play back raw footage from the camcorder--it looks great as the tv stretches my skinny anamorphic footage back into its correct shape.(Obviously on regular 4x3 sets it looks skinny)

That's why my final destinaton is a DVD--the player knows what to do depending on the monitor it is hooked up to.

On a 16x9 set--it literally does nothing--just plays out the raw footage. (As the TV does the stretching)

On a 4x3 set with anamorphic footage--the DVD players squezes down the height of footage---effectively letterboxing the footage so it looks correct on a 4x3 set.

So I'm mystified...

Just want to post that my assumption that DVFilmMaker is not compatible with true 16:9 was not exactly correct.

The PDX10 records 16:9 using 720 horizontal pixels, but instead of cheating the vertical resolution like in most other cameras with the 16:9 switch (ie. VX2000, XL1, XL1s) the PDX10 uses a full 480 vertical pixels thus yielding 525 lines of resolution.

Here's the brochure from Sony complete with picture that illustratees this: http://bpgprod.sel.sony.com/Professional/docs/brochures/dsrpdx10final.pdf

The real catch with the PDX10 is that while it can record a true 16:9 signal on the CCD, it records it on the DV tape in a 4:3 format. This is not necessarily a bad thing, because it's still better than the fake way gets the image off the CCD using 360 pixels and then stores them as 480 pixels.

What this all really means is that you should really treat the footage from the PDX10 as 4:3 when editing or processing with 3rd party effect programs like DVFilmMaker... and as John C. Chu mentioned... yes everything looks skinny and will until you get it back to the camera or DVD and play it on a 16:9 screen.

I guess we are all still missing the point here.

If I take 16x9 (which we all understand is anamorphic now) and put it in Premiere, I can edit it like normal - by the way, both Avid and Premiere have 16x9 monitoring on the PC so I can see the footage while editing it correctly - and I output the finished edit back to tape, or play it out, it is still in the correct format. Looks OK on all the monitors and records as 16x9.

When I take that footage into DVFilm and process it, I can no longer play that same (but processed) footage out to the camera or a monitor without it being squashed where as before processing, it played out correctly.

I too have heard about the 16x9 "flag" that gets set and I am wondering if the modes or workflow I am using isn't allowing that flag to be set correctly or if it is some fault in the software.

There may be a setting on the camera I need to set but I will look inot it more.

Sean