Im going to be editing a 2 hour project. My friend is argueing with me that Vegas can't handle it and that we should use premiere pro. I think this is rediculous. Can I get some confermation?

If you've ever experienced the horrors of long projects on the previous version of Premiere (6.5), and then later found Vegas which provided a hugely more stable alternative for those long projects, you would find it very laughable to suggest that this latest version of Premiere somehow can handle some large project that Vegas can not.

In other words, Vegas 4 brought possibilities that Premiere 6.5 struggled with. Premiere Pro has now come out and is supposedly much more stable (though I have only used it in passing so I cannot confirm). So to suggest Vegas can't handle a big project doesn't make sense since Vegas was the reason Adobe had to hurry up and spit out Premiere Pro before it was originally scheduled for release.

However, Premiere is a much more established name, so that may be the difficulty your friend is having.

What kind of project is this? A multicamera shoot?

we edited a project that at times was 3 - 4 hrs (vegas TL). the computer had 500gigs of video h.drives plus 80 gig C ...
it was a little sluggish moving around the TL when we hit above 3 hrs. that could have been the computer and not vegas ? as it had 384 mgs ram ..
the other factor might have been all our material was captured as 13 gig file ( each tape) so vegas was accessing/had open 400+ gig of files all the time ... we found that cutting the project in 1/2 solved the sluggish ....

since then on long projects ( 1 hr or more ) we edit it in 15-30 min segments ... then render these off and put them together in 1 vegas to view whole project - then go back to each segment to make changes ...

The only issues I have had with Vegas doing long form (and thats all I do) is the bin issues already discussed here and elsewhere---other then that, its rock solid.

Michael, as David just mentioned there is a bin issue with Vegas. Vegas is crap at media management through the media pool. If you'll be using alot of clips, then use the explorer in vegas, and turn on show regions after you've made regions of your clips. Do everything through explorer. Edward Troxel put me onto this after I had major problem with Vegas screwing up my media pool.

Here is the thread (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18996)

Aaron


edit: Corrected your name Edward ;)

I'm currently working on a 3 hour 3 camera shoot. Vegas is handling it with ease. After cutting it down, the final print to tape will be 2 hours (1 vhs max)

Most of our doc work comes in just under 2 hours, with at least 3 cams on everything. If you know the limitations of the Bin structure, it's not a problem. In fact, we've never relied on anyone's bin structure, because 8 years ago, there wasn't such a thing, so we've gotten into the habit of creating folders for each tape, and cross referencing via the Media Pool in Vegas, plus using Regions. This is the best way to accomplish this. Build regions in the Trimmer or in the timeline and save.
Premiere Pro is much better than it used to be at media management, but it's no different than Vegas at the end of the day. IMO, only AVID really has this down tight.

I dont understand this whole region thing. I never ever use the trimmer... its not as simple as throwing a clip on the time line and hitting "s" to slice it up. The trimmer doesn't seem to be as extensive as it should.... the only options it has is that you can start a clip from cursor position or end it there. maybe Im missing some options. I dont know, but I dont understand the region thing.

Michael. Load a clip into the trimmer, and mark a region. Then click the 'save regions' icon. Once that's done you can go to the Explorer, and select the file that has the region marked on it. Right click in the explorer window->view->region view and then you'll see the regions you marked in the selected file.

Aaron

Lotsa folks don't use the Trimmer. If you don't need to have tight media control, if you shoot for editing with lots of stop/starts on the cam to mark takes, then the Trimmer might not be for you. Fewer and fewer people use the Trimmer/Source window in various NLE's anyway these days. Timeline based editing is more the norm from what I see in the forums and in daily conversations with editors.
Regions allow you to mark out sections of longer clips. Suppose you captured a one hour clip, and you wanted to mark out sections before putting them on the timeline. If you work with an analog cam, this would almost always be the case. Maybe your DV cam had a dead battery. Whatever the case, the Trimmer allows you to mark and identify the pieces you wish to keep. The marked sections are usually marked via the R key for Region. If you only use the M key for Marker, you only have marked points, but by using the R key/Regions, you can identify In/Out points. (I/O) Then, you can throw those sections on the timeline, do a Save As With Copy of Media, and get rid of the rest of the one-=hour capture you didn't want to have there taking up disk space.
This is just one example of how Trimmer can be used, but again, many people don't use Source or Trimmer editing functions any more.

Two Hour project. . . no sweat for Vegas.

Douglas, are you saying more people just chuck the whole clip on the timeline and trim from that? I generally use the trimmer but then often I have loooong clips.

Aaron

I don't know about 'more' people, but this is a common way that newer-comers to video editing seem to be doing it. If they don't have a background in working with source tapes and linear editing systems, the workflow isn't quite as natural to them. I see guys all the time that throw a one-hour event on the timeline, use the "S" key to split sections out, toss what they don't want from the TL, and them do a "Save As" and delete the original one-hour event/clip.
Since I rarely have long clips like this, I generally use the trimmer for long, and use the timeline for shorter stuff. Beauty of it is, Vegas will allow for either (and more) workflows.

I'll admit to being one of the "timeline" people. I only use the trimmer when there is a specific reason to do so.

Ditto for me as well. I capture each tape as a single contiguous file. Much more organized, for me at least. Plus it saves on the capture device heads...all that stopping and starting. I've found if I capture with sceen detection enabled I get wayyyy to many files. I always overshoot and tend to be very picky with what I actually keep and use.

Btw, first time seeing you post on here Doug! Great to have you!

I've never used the trimmer, since I couldn't see any reason to do so (but I guess everyone has a different editing style, and it's nice Vegas gives us so many ways of doing the same thing). Ditto for the Bins; I just use plain ole' Windows to keep track of my stuff.

Speaking of stuff, last month I completed my latest project. It is a 2 1/2 hour documentary (split over two DVDs) of a very good Oregon-based high school choir on Tour through Germany, Czech Republic, and Austria for two weeks last summer.

I came back with 62 hours of raw video and loaded all of it on the PC (800GB). Vegas performed beautifully, even though some veg files covered 12+ hours of video. The finished project has motion menus, a commentary audio track, and an additional hour of "Bonus video."

One conclusion I reached is that it takes me about one month for each hour of finished DVD. I don't think it's because I'm that good; I'm probably just slow.

I'm not using it either. I let the capture applications create
multiple files for each "take". My windows file structure takes
the form of:

<scene number> - <scene description> \ <take number> <take description>.avi

Personally I would probably devide such a long project up into
multiple Vegas projects (one or multiple scenes for example)
just for my own ease of mind and being able to work with small
blocks before assembling it all together. This might be due to
the fact that this is basically what you do in programming a lot,
which is my profession. Who knows!

One really good workflow (we use anyway) is to have multiple copies of Vegas open with different Veg files in them. Then we edit each section to near perfection, lock each 'scene' as a group. and drop into a master veg. This accomplishes a number of tasks, but management is the biggest one. This prevents having to render each scene or section, and allows for several people to work on the project at once. Vegas manages a network pretty well too.

That's a good one too Doug, thanks for that!

One of the nice things of editing in trimmer is cuts only effect that clip....I have noticed trimming on the timeline if I'm not carefull and hit "s"...I end spitting the audio track instead of the video track...something easily fixed but still....

I too have been a "timeline" editor...but I believe I may start using trimmer more often.....

Just as a piece of information, you can avoid cutting multiple
events by only selecting the event you want. Then move the
edit line around with the cursors and hit 'S'.