Which mic is better for the MX3/MX5?

[list=1] Apex 191
Pana's stereo zoom mic
Sony's MS908 stereo
or, ???[/list=1]

I don't know which one is better, but if you're looking at the MS908, also check-out the MS907. I was playing with both at B&H Photo - the MS908 has a very short wire, couldn't use it for an interview.

The MS907 has a longer cable that can be useful if you decide to hand hold it for an interview.

Is the MS907 also a stereo mic? Or is it the same mic with a longer cable?

It's basically the same stereo mic with a longer cable. Here are the features that are different, otherwise it's the same mic ... I have no clue how to read these specs though to know how significant the differences are:

MS907 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=getItemDetail&Q=&sku=150434&is=REG&si=spec#goto_itemInfo)
Dynamic Range (Typical) 81dB
Signal to Noise Ratio 65 dB
Max Input Sound Level (SPL) 110 dB, (@ 1 kHz, 1% THD)
Attached Cable: 5' (1.5m)

MS908C (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=getItemDetail&Q=&sku=174982&is=REG&si=spec#goto_itemInfo)
Dynamic Range (Typical) 86 dB
Signal to Noise Ratio 87 dB
Max Input Sound Level (SPL) 111 dB, (@ 1 kHz, 1% THD)
Attached Cable: 5" (127mm)

All a longer cable in an unbalanced mic will do is give you more chance for interference.

It is really doubtfull that you will get a decent stereo mic for around $100

So far as the specs detailed, they really don't say much except it's a very inexpensive mic. At this price youi listen to the mic.

Mics have different characteristics for different types of use. Some mics are very brite but accurate, voice mics are tuned with a little lift to make us sound better. there is no one mic that will do everything so either buy multiple mics or decide the traits that are most important.

For the money the Apex is the best all around mic for the price.

What is your on camera mic good for in your opinion?

Here is some reading to help you decide and understand more about what you are upo against.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1995_articles/jun95/microphones.html

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html#link%20two

http://www.equipmentemporium.com/

This is pretty good in explaining the different types of microphone.
http://www.schoeps.de/E/overview-mic-types.html#shotgun

Thanks, Bryan. I go read those links.What is your on camera mic good for in your opinion?Say I'm shooting a picnic. The sounds seem very rich and natural, from the "clinging" of spoons being placed on the table, plates, the wind rustling the tree leaves and the leaves of the bushes, the fire crackling, the nearby waves from the ocean rolling onto the sandy shore and subtle dialog in-between.

So..., in your opinion, Bryan, you feel that the Apex 191 is a much better mic than the Azden 990, considering they cost about the same at B&H?

Regarding the Apex 191 (that's the one you mean, right?), is it a cardioid mic? Or hyper/super, meaning slightly more directional?

Apex 191 info (can't find B&H link)

Azden 990 info:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=3646&is=REG
http://www.azden.com/shotgun.html#ecz-990


-------------------------------------------
The GS100, Pana's unprotrusive pokercam - tomorrow's technology today.

The mic you want for your picnic ambience is an omni. To zoom into the picnic and record localized audio would be a hypercardoid. They even have several different types of omni. One has a bright mid and high freq range to be used at a distance from the source, One has a fairly flat response , which is normallyused close. There is a mic called a reference mic which has a tiny diaphram but is super accurate for ambience. I've never used one of those , but only read about them.

http://www.sdaaudio.ca/tt-3m.html
http://www.sdaaudio.ca/kp-6m.html

The hypercard will not colour the off axis as a shotgun might. you'll still get some ambience.

Now maybe you'll understand why I keep spending more money on mics. (Apart from a compulsive digital video disorder).

I'll keep looking, somewhere out there is a mic with the name Granovski written all over it.

Thanks. But I've decided on a good stereo zoom mike, if there even is such a thing (maybe), or a cardioid which is halfway toward a hyper/super.

What type of mic is the Apex 191 again?


-------------------------------------------
The GS100 - the black one, please.

Here's a B&H list of Stereo mics:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home;jsessionid=ABAmgB9jWy!-431430077?O=NavBar&A=search&Q=&ci=1458

Here's a B&H list of "shootgun" mics:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home;jsessionid=ABAmgB9jWy!-431430077?O=NavBar&A=search&Q=&ci=1456

There is a trade off. What you're willing to spend vs what you want the mic to do. No one mic can do everything. For anyone to go through that list from B&H would require a small book.

Read Jay's article on patterns, it may shed more light.

http://www.dv.com/columns/columns_item.jhtml?category=Audio+Solutions&subGenre=&LookupId=/xml/feature/2003/rose0203

Bryan, that TT-3M Reference Microphone price costs $1460.00 Canadian. That's over a US "G-note."

The TT-3M reference mic is expensive, the other one is more reasonable but my point wasn't to say that you shoulkd buy one. You spoke of ambient sounds, I was simply giving an example of another type of mic and also to show that mics don't have to have a huge diaphram to work and sound well. The $1400 mic doesn't sound 4 times better than the $350 reference mic. Although it costs that much more it may only be 10% better.

How do you think i found that little apex? I was testing mics of all price ranges and the salesguy passed that one to me. I listened and said, the voice is nice but it doesn't have the top end anything like the others. It was a $99 mic being compared to $300 to$800 mics and it didn't come out that badly. It actually did a better job on voice than some of the bib ones.

My point is that you can spend $1500- $2000 on a mic and not find one that will do everything.

Bottom line (my opinion) the stereo zooms are crap. Buy a mono in a pattern that will fufill your greatest need.

Re: the list of mics at B&H
That's all of the mics that B&H have in those catagories. Firstly many are out of yours and my budget.

Mics that require phantom and preamplification will add to the overall cost of an audio setup. There are compromises all the way up the ladder.

Byran, the Apex 191 is $110 Canadian. The mic is a cardioid, halfway between cardioid and hyper-cardioid. I guess I'll need to buy a hotshoe clamp for it. I also noticed they sell quite a few Apex models---I think maybe you where on to something with finding this line at that music shop.Bottom line (my opinion) the stereo zooms are crapBut I want zoom-stereo! D_mn it! :-))

Frank if you can find the mic that i talked about in my other thread i think you will like it. The sounds it produces is very true and realistic. You will mainly only get the sounds that are in front of you as it is directional. It doesn't seem as loud as the stereo mic when you have ur headphones plugged into your camera because it is only mono and works only one channel in the camera. Playback however comes through both channels when plugged into the tv. It definately has better sound then the standard mic and the only camera noise it might pic up is the sound of the camera putting the tapes on the head for start and stop of play or recording. It also comes with a shoe mount. I will put a pic of my set up sometime.
It will be at http://www.geocities.com/sniper_y2k/camera.html
don't check it for the next little while though
wont be up there

Justin

sorry stuffed that one up
heres the real one
the pic is up
http://www.geocities.com/sniper_y2k2000/camera.html

good luck
justin

That's the JVC MZ-320 "super directional" mic?

yes as you can see it looks very nice on cam and even if i thought it sounded worse i would probably just leave it on there and disconnect it just because it makes the camera look more professional. I am happy with it though. it has good crisp sounds. perhaps the only problem is it is limited on the lower frequencys perhaps not as strong as the higher frequencies. for general applications you don't get much of the lower frequency's it is generally only with music you might see the problem but if you want to record any music well then you need to spend decent money on a mic. As has already been said, even if you get an expensive mic, the gains are only small and often you still wont be happy.

justin

Hmm... I like the side profile photo of the cam with the mic. I'll take a side picture of my MX350 with the Fuji 0.8x Wide angle and my Azden 990 (read: cheap but functional) mic on a tripod. Good for publicity, too.

Hot shoe clamp is bad. hot shoe shock mount = good. if you aren't in a hurry I'll try it on my TRV20. The mic is $99, they'll swing the $10.


The closest to a for real zoom mic is one with a variable polar pattern (big bucks) or a mic with interchangeable capsules.

A shotgun will colour off axis, a hypercardoid won't colour the off axis to the same degree. the near or slightly off axis will still be useable.

A cardoid will be directional but not as much. In a way a cardoid is better in that it doesn't have that rear sensitivety. The sides are attenuated but theres a boost at the rear of the mic.

Bryan, which hot shoe shock mount should I get, and where can I buy it?

Bryan is working at finding a good hot-shoe shock mount for the Apex 191 mic. He's working on the case and since wrote:I didn't forget about it Frank. I was trying to find the most cost effective that would fit on a camera.

They're both $40 at B&H but I was wondering if they'd be too long

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=108256&is=REG

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=194397&is=REG

the AT 8415 would be better but it's bigger, $50 and it needs a $10 adapter to fit a camera shoe.

The Sabra Som is only $40 canadian at Long & McQuade and it would do the best job. It's a tad large and it would need the AT adapter $14 can $10 US.

http://www.sabrasom.com.br/ing/SSM1.htm

...just to keep us MX mic seekers updated. :-))

Here I’m posting some links in English and Japanese for AT shock mounts and stereo mics.

AT shock mounts: http://www.audio-technica.com/guide/other/misc/mounts/index.html
AT822 specs: http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/profiles/AT822.html
Stereo camera mic from AT:
HP in English: http://www.audio-technica.com/guide/line/atr/ATR25.html
HP in Japanese: http://www.audio-technica.co.jp/products/mic/at9450.html (seems same mic with different name)
This is 2-pattern (cardioid/supercardioid): http://www.audio-technica.co.jp/products/mic/at9350.html (page in Japanese but numbers speak for themselves)
List of AT stereo and gun mics at a glance (Japanese) - CHECK BOXES No 3 and 4 from up and press the widest button down: http://www.audio-technica.co.jp/search/b.html

And this is the mic I have: http://www.audio-technica.co.jp/products/mic/at9440.html - very nice small but rigid. Very clear crisp sound, but it seems it peaks up quite a bit from the background ambience. I guess it’s stereo field is at 120 degrees (you can see the polar pattern of the AT822 – should be very similar).
Don’t know about availability in USA/Canada though.

You'll probably not need a shock mount for a camera mounted mic - the way I look at it is that the sound from a camera mounted mic is not expected to be studio clean.

The ATR25 mic that Bogdan mentioned would certainly worth a look. The mount that's included would be worse than useless. I'd trust Audio technica to come up with something low cost and decent before any camera manufacturer.

The 8415 shock mount is a nice mount but pretty big. it's $50 and you'd need a shoe mount that cost $10. That mount can be used on camera and boom poles as well.]

Yes, you would definetly need a shockmount on camera. Every finger tap and movement would come through as well as the camera zoom.