The definition of an engineer is supposed to be "A person that can do for one dollar, what any fool can do for two. One might also add a member of DVINFO.NET to that definition.

Wind protection runs the gamut, from $1.98 bargains to zepplins costing several hundred.

I was looking for pop and wind protection for my new Oktava 012's and my soon to be gnu T.H.E. hypercardoid pair. Both are almost the size. the oktava's are 22mm and the T.H.E. mics 21.5mm.

I plan on ordering 6 WindTech Series 12 Windscreens for basic use. They're only $3.50 a piece and come in any of 21 vibrant colours of "sonic foam".

http://www.olsenaudio.com/general.html

For that extra dose of protection there are several options, the first being a WindTech Ultra Series Windscreen, mpodel US-2 , available at B&H by special order for $34.50. (The sound Room wants $50 and markertech wants $45) See link and pasted description.

http://www.olsenaudio.com/special.html

(From the sound room)Designed and manufactured by Craig Olsen of WindTech, these windscreens offer the ultimate in protection. Recommended for boom work, location film/tv sound, any outdoor application and even in the studio instead of a POP filter. Has an outer shell of 80 P.P.I. "SonicFoam"(tm) with an inner dead air space, then another layer of 30 P.P.I. "SonicFoam"(tm) surrounds the .75" mic sleeve.


http://www.rycote.com/MiniWindjammer.htm

The Mini Windjammer is approx $50 and is a furry cover that fit's over the standard windscreen that i first mentioned. For my purposes a "Special 60" will fit.

So for $53.50 you have 2 levels of protection

There is always something like this but I'm afraid it would excite the cat far too much.

http://www.locationsound.ca/miac.html

The PGWS Fur Ball. I understand it's made in Canada from virgins hair. At $95 ($75 US) Canadian each it oughta be.

The PGWS for the ME66 is $145 C$ which is a real bargain. The page shows a few other interesting "Fur Balls" as well as several different mounting systems.

I was planning on ordering the Rycote Baby Ball Gag, and the appropriate WindJammer. The combo runs around $175 USD. It seems like it should be pretty solid protection, but it is expensive. I guess it's all relative, much cheaper than a blimp system for a shotgun.

http://www.lentinicommunications.com/items/item346.htm

http://www.katamount.com/baby_ball_gag.htm

Hot damn! i've been looking for something like that. Silly me i actually looked on the Rycote site. Rycote ought to get a knob of the year award for the most useless web site.

The best part is Katamount is about a 45 min drive and I'm in that area quite a bit.

I went to the site http://www.alanbarker.com/contentpages/screenmod.html and it shows clear instructions for modifying a Sure A81WS foam windscreen so that you get a sort of bald Softie... This windscreen and procedure gives you the dead air space that good systems use, but it still may be inferior to the Windtech solution which gives you two layers of protection AND a dead air space.

If you want to try this method rather then the Windtech then you can order the Sure A81WS at http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=68646&is=REG and it's only $29.95

Beas turned me on to the Alan Barker page in another mic discussion... I'm not sure which screen would be the best of the choices we have so far.

I almost went with the BBG and Jammer myself, but two bills is definitely pushing it... One thing you can be sure of is that probably is the BEST system...

So what's the second best? I don't mind paying $75 for a Cat Ball.

BEAS, Please take one of the Oktava's with you when you check out the BBG and Jammer... I'd have had one coming except the guy called me back and said it wouldn't work on an Oktava... Kata implies that it will on their site. Please fill us in when you find out.

Also I think that would be appropriate support for a THE mic, but man doesn't that seem high for an Oktava?

One last thing... what the heck did you think I was talking about in my email? The BBG shouldn't be a surprise.

Matt
I couldn't find reference to a baby ball gag anywhere. That's why i was so unimpressed with rycotes site. Now I find out they're Brit, Oy vey, The Pain !!!!

The problem with the Oktava may be because of the "belled" capsule end. The other mics are straight cylinders.

I'll request more literature on the Fur Ball

Beas,

On the Katamount site they say that the BBG fits 19/20mm mics. That would get it to mount around the Oktava... but another retailer down here in the states actually called me back to cancel my order! Saying that he didn't think it would work. I was glad he called me back considering my second thoughts about a $200 (shipped) windscreen for this mic.

Before I have a $500 Oktava rig I'd probably just keep the At4073a as it wasn't too far off and my initial complaint wasn't that the 4073 sounded BAD, just that it lost many SOUND QUALITY tests in relation to the Oktava. Since those tests weren't lost by much, just barely in fact... my entire bitch was that I got a sub $100 mic that was comparing favorably to a $500 mic... The At4073a needs nothing more then a Softie to be an "adverse-conditions" mic... Sooooo, if I would actually NEED a BBG/Jammer then I'd just keep the AT for that purpose.

That set of THE mics is a whole 'nother story... You should get the best for the best.

But as far as it being possible to USE the BBG on the Oktava's. I don't see what the problem would be EXCEPT that you may need to Jerry-Rig the mic where the BBG "grabs" it. THAT'S what I want you to determine when you see it up close!

I had a Rycote Zepp system for my me66 before I sold it and I can tell you that where you see the plastic "ring" that devides the two cages... see it? That part UNSCREWS and you have two halves... so you slip the Oktava xlr end first through the appropriate half THEN you screw the BBG back together THEN you zip/velcro on the Jammer. Simple? No?

Hey if I'm wrong about it working like that then I'll eat a pound of dog crap.

Hey, this is a great discussion!

Does anyone have a SGM-2X? I am looking for wind protection for it, but it doesn't look like anyone has one of those.

Murph

A cheap alternative for an SGM-2X is the mike muff. It's not great because it doesn't do the zeppelin thing with air space around the mic - it fits over your foam windscreen that the mic comes with - but it's not bad for the price. Around $40.

http://www.mikemuff.com/

Again, nothing fancy, but it's results are way better than nothing.

Murph
Follow the links I left. There are products for the Azden shotgun, all you have to do is look them up. Go to the Olson (WindTech) site and look at shotguns . All you have to do is measure your mic, get the right part number then go to a supplier like B&H and do a search for a price.

Lightwave and Rycote have the pull on fake fur covers that pull on over the foam.

So far as Rycote in Canada goes, well they won't be seeing my business. There's more reasonable stuff available.

"For that extra dose of protection there are several options, the first being a WindTech Ultra Series Windscreen, mpodel US-2 , available at B&H by special order for $34.50. (The sound Room wants $50 and markertech wants $45) See link and pasted description."

+++

This is a bit of a coincidence, I just ordered two of these (US-2) from Crouse-Kimzey (www.proaudio.com) for $17.50 each. Interestly, the US series is what is used on the President of the United States' lectern. Over SM81's when at the White House and over SM57's when on the road. They use the SM57's on the road when they need bullet-proof reliability.

Anyway, I'm told the US series has remarkably good wind noise resistance, even when exposed out-of-doors. I'll let you know when I get a chance to test them.

Cheers...

I didn't call Crouse-Kimzey but Full compass want $39 so even the lowest price that i got is double yours. Could you double check.

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy :
Does anyone have a SGM-2X? I am looking for wind protection for it, but it doesn't look like anyone has one of those. -->>>

Rycote and Lightwave do offer something. The Windtech BG-2 (Big Gun) Series is a good inexpensive alternative.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=SearchBar&A=search&Q=*&shs=sgm-2x

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=298967&is=REG

I talked to the sales guy, he said the list was $35, with discount it would be $17.50 each. He also fax'd a quote to me.

Thanks to everyone who posted regarding the Azden question!

Murph

Good luck getting an ANSWER OR RETURN PHONE CALL from www.proaudio.com

I called twice last week and twice today. I left one message last week and one today. No answer, no return calls.

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh :
(From the sound room)Designed and manufactured by Craig Olsen of WindTech, these windscreens offer the ultimate in protection. Recommended for boom work, location film/tv sound, any outdoor application and even in the studio instead of a POP filter. Has an outer shell of 80 P.P.I. "SonicFoam"(tm) with an inner dead air space, then another layer of 30 P.P.I. "SonicFoam"(tm) surrounds the .75" mic sleeve. -->>>

Bryan,

Where did you get that information that there's an inner dead air space between the two foams? The Ultra Series windscreen seems to be just two different density foams, one inside the other. Using different density foams should work fine indeed.

In fact what should be used is as little foam or fabric as possible between your sound source and the microphone. This is one area where the less the better.

The secret for having an effective but also working windscreen, quality wise, is to have some clearing distance between the fabric/foam barrier and the mic membrane. The function of this barrier is to slow down the speed of the air, not changing the quality of the air rarefections that audio is made of.

The round "cages" used by Rycote, Schoeps and others are the best in achieving that. The best I have seen was probably a DIY job, even if being used for location audio on a 007 film. It was made of balsa wood sticks forming a large cage, with silk on the outside as windshield, and a 416 floating inside.

Carlos

Carlos
My source was clearly posted. That was from the sound room and apparently taken off of Olson WindTech literature. The WindTech site is pretty sparse information wise but they have been at the game a long time.

I'm aware that the zeplin type enclosures with dead air space are the most effective. The worst high freq attenuation seems to be on the fake fur on foam products. The best results seem to be from the full or partial framed enclosure like the superscreen, windshield, baby ball and extended baby ball gag and mini screen. The minute you put the fur on the attenuation starts.

I'm waiting on some info on the baby ball and extended ball gag from my Canadian Dealer

Today I tried to call Crouse-Kimzey again. I tried my closest location which is the "Mid-America" choice from the www.proaudio.com site... Once again, no answer... just a machine. So I can't vouch for that location's pricing, but I did then call the Colorado branch and I spoke with Lee...

Lee was very kind and I asked him about the Windtech Ultra US-2 windscreens and explained to him that I was told they were $17.50 from Crouse-Kimzey... as told to me.

I think that was a special price that Dan was able to get. Don't expect that price.

Lee more or less laughed at me a bit... I laughed with him and said, "Well I was HOPING that was the price I'd get", and then I ordered two of those screens for $32 each.

He said that was definitely the best price he could do on those since that was already the lowest price in the country. Also I asked him about the "dead-air-space" and he said, "Yes, those are the ones..."... so hopefully this will all be cleared up by Friday.

Dan, did you get your screens in yet? Are they the ones with the airspace? If so then I think you may have found a close-out deal, but either way I tried to get a hold of the Mid-West branch for four days so I'll take 'em at $32 and be happy to have them.

Matt: They are on-order and have not arrived yet. C-M had to order from Windtech, drop shipped to me. With shipping, the total was $45.31 for two US-2 screens, these are the dual-density foam units with the air space.

You could call C-M at 800-433-2105 (in Grand Prairie TX).

Damn! Shoulda' tried the main office! Oh well, I guess it's only an extra $20 to Lee for answering his phone!

As far as the phone comment I need to add that I never tried the TX number! I wish I had...

Either way thanks for the tip!

I'm awaiting a baby ball gag (who thought of that name) from Lentini in NY. They told me the manufacturer hasn't approved the unit for the MC012. It's a 20mm opening, so I said send it anyway. I'll let you know how it works out.

Martin
How much was the baby ball gag. So far as the name, Rycote is in the UK, they can be a strange lot (I'm an expatriated limey so i can say that).

I paid $120 for the unit and $55 for the Windjammer.

Well, the US-2's arrived today. They have an inner foam that is rather open and airy, and an outer foan that is very fine celled. There is an air space at the business end, between the foam. And, they are HUGE!!! I will mount one of my Oktavas in an AT8415 shock mount and put one of these US-2's on it tonight. I'm thinking the Oktava will be lost in there (snicker-snicker). It's kind of windy today, so I should be able to test the set-up's real world performance.

So what's the verdict on those US-2 windscreens Dan?

It's been hectic around here, so I haven't done an outside windy condition test. I did compare the bare mic versus the RadioSack foam versus the US-2 for breath pop. The bare Oktave is ulta-sensitive to breath. With the RadioShack foam screen there is a big improvement, but breath rumble can be caused from 3-6" distance if you blow on the screen. With the US-2, the mic is virtually immune to breath. I was even talking with my lips on the screen, and there was no breath rumble. I could make it rumble if I blow firmly at the screen from an inch away, or so. I'll try to get ouside with it today and try it in windy conditions.

BTW, my Panny DV-852 with an AT8415 mount, Oktava, and US-2 mounded on the hot shoe, and with the Beachtec DXA-6 underneath looks pretty cool to me. There is almost no handling noise with this set-up.

I'm thinking that the US-2 will solve my outdoors shooting situations. If it's too windy for that, I'll just shoot on a calmer day.

The BBG came in today. It fits the oktava like a glove. I had to twist the mic back n' forth a little as I slid it through the rubber socket, but neither the mic or the BBG seemed to mind.

Much bigger than I thought. I guess that's the whole idea, creating a space of air around the capsule. With the capsule end right at the center of the basket there isn't much room left on the short mic to clip. The clip that ships works fine, the studio clip I had been using, not so much.

I haven't gotten it outside yet, but I would like to note that booming it inside much of what I thought was handling noise, was the mic moving in the air. I realize this because its gone.

I ran a test. I recorded a sweep (via my monitors) with the BBG off, on and with the windjammer on. I understand the inherent limitations in using my mediocre monitors as a source for a sweep, but I figured for a relative comparison it would work. The BBG on and off makes no noticeable difference to response. The windjammer does. But I don't think it would be noticeable on dialogue. The difference was only about 3db and only began to show over about 7000HZ.

When I have a chance to do some recording outside, I'll follow up.

Martin

Thanks Martin... there are a couple of us who followed suit in ordering Baby Ball Gags and I have been very curious as I anticipate their arrival... I'd love to know if I can in fact use an Oktava as a short shotgun outdoors. I'm hoping the BBG and Jammer will turn a Hyper Oktava into a little miracle.

You'll know before I will... so fill us in as the details come! So far so good.

As an aside, ftp://ftp.hmmh.com/FTPOut/NPM/NoiseInParks/AppA.pdf
has an excellent study of an attempt to build a windscreen for various uses in intense situations.
I read a lot of "Pop bottle" type windscreen tutorials and while I've never heard a recording done this way, I have indeed heard recordings with fake fur not trimmed correctly, and the audio was pretty dull. Anyway, for those of the scientific mind, if you've not read this, you should read it.

There was an article in "American Cinematographer", many years ago, on an Everest climbing.

The sound man used a foam on the MKH 416, which was inside a Rycote, which was covered by the windjammer. Apparently it worked fine on the high winds up there.


Carlos

Dan, you got a price on the Windtech's that they aren't going to give anybody else...

Since my US-2's still haven't arrived... and it's over a week later... and I called the CO office and got an answering machine that says "I'll be gone till the 23rd"... I figured I'd just order the pair from your TX office and return the other ones when they finally showed up.

Well I called the TX office, and spoke with "Dianne" and she said, "Sure, you want two of those. Ok that's $32 each... How do you want to pay for that?"

So how you got 'em for $17.50 is a mystery... but I don't think anybody else should expect to get that price.

The Windtech US-2 windscreens showed up today. They actually look pretty good for the money. I was a little surprised at how "finished" they look.

I think they'll be a satisfactory solution for 90% of your indoor situations with the Oktava's... Outdoors may be another story.

Also of note is that they don't really lock onto the mic very tightly.

When you put on a Softie you know it's not going anywhere. On the Oktava this windscreen feels as though it could be sucked off and away in the right circumstances. Basically it takes ZERO effort to slip it on... and that's not really a good thing... but as I said, indoors it works perfectly.

May I ask how diy job in 007 film compare to rycote in normal wind situation?

What is the advantage using silk instead of fake fur?

TIA

Regards
Leigh

The round "cages" used by Rycote, Schoeps and others are the best in achieving that. The best I have seen was probably a DIY job, even if being used for location audio on a 007 film. It was made of balsa wood sticks forming a large cage, with silk on the outside as windshield, and a 416 floating inside.

Carlos

I use a Mikemuff over my AT 835-ST. It fits over the stock foam and works in gusts above 20mph on a Shure 15A mast. The only mod I had to do was a rubberband on the velcro to get a tight seal as that was my only source of wind noise until I figured it out.

Is there any disadvantage to use foam? I thought foam can at least protect the microphone. Will the foam degrade sound quality compare to no foam?

TIA

Regards
Leigh
I use a Mikemuff over my AT 835-ST. It fits over the stock foam and works in gusts above 20mph on a Shure 15A mast. The only mod I had to do was a rubberband on the velcro to get a tight seal as that was my only source of wind noise until I figured it out.

Generally, foam does little in windy or fast moving air. Depending on the density and quality of the foam, it may or may not cut the higher frequencies, or muffle the sound a bit. Sometimes you'll need to add high end back in to the mix in post. Dead cats, zepplins, foam covers all vary in quality, you might want to experiment a bit with various tools to see what works best for you.

Hi Douglas,

May I ask how to experiment?

What I am planning to do is to use a white noise generator to generator test sound, and use microphone to receive the sound and record to minidv tape and import to computer. Then use spectrum analyzer to analyzer the frequency to see the difference between with/without foam or whatever I put on the microphone effect. Will that work? I think that will be scientific way to test.

Another way is play some music file instead of white noise generator, and use my ear to hear the difference recorded by the microphone, but that is very subjective, and depends on each different person.

Regards
Leigh

Generally, foam does little in windy or fast moving air. Depending on the density and quality of the foam, it may or may not cut the higher frequencies, or muffle the sound a bit. Sometimes you'll need to add high end back in to the mix in post. Dead cats, zepplins, foam covers all vary in quality, you might want to experiment a bit with various tools to see what works best for you.

I'd recommend getting out in some wind, and recording. If you want to go the science route, that's fine too, but somewhat useless for what you're wanting to know. Scientifically, HDV isn't a viable video format (nor is DV) but our eyes all know better. What do your ears tell you? Science can confirm or dispel numbers, but at the end of the day, we listen with our ears, not our brains.

http://www.vasst.com/files/product/MiniFuzzy.wmv has a bit of a high wind shot, mic is about 20 inches from source. While not an experiment, it might inspire something.

Hi Douglas,

Thanks for the advice. ;-)

Regards
Leigh

Hello everyone,

Here is my diy silk wind screen. It cost me zero money.
I am very happy that I can get same configuration as 007 movie windscreen setup. I guess that silk won't cut high frequency sound which thick fake fur will do cut high frequency sound. I also found that the trick to further the benefit of using silk is to use some slightly heavy material hanging on the silk to stop silk free moving. I think if I allow silk to free move, the defence against the wind might greatly reduced. The time I spent on this tiny project is around 8 minutes. That is a free bargain. ;-)

Here is what I did.
I attached two wooden stick to Rode-SM3 On-Camera Shockmount for Shotgun Mics and sew silk cloth from my 10 years old T-shirt to hang on the microphone. The microphone has the default foam on. The shockmount was attached to my diy microphone stand which is pretty stable. The microphone point around 45 degree downward which is the best configuration I have known of.

Here is my diy silk windscreen test.

Here is the test configuration
jvc gy-dv5000 minidv camera
Audio-Technica AT4073 kit
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=400803&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

I can't find big wind as the day was not so windy. Pretty sad ;-)

The jvc gy-dv5000 with AT4073 seems very sensitive to the level. I have to lower the level setting way down to get good sound.

Sorry about the not so professional appearing in my film. I am not used to stand in front of the camera.
In the last 20 months, I was always behind the camera.

Here is the video. The file size is around 47mb and is encoded as wmv file.
Click here (http://www.smootharm.com/art/www.smootharm.com.2006_3_11.wmv)

Enjoy ;-)

Regards
Leigh

Here is what I did.
I attached two wooden stick to Rode-SM3 On-Camera Shockmount for Shotgun Mics and sew silk cloth from my 10 years old T-shirt to hang on the microphone. The microphone has the default foam on. The shockmount was attached to my diy microphone stand which is pretty stable. The microphone point around 45 degree downward which is the best configuration I have known of.


I think the original "007 wind-screen" might have been misunderstood. The guy didn't use a foam inside the windscreen. The silk was supposed to take care of of everything.

The original Sennheiser "zeppelin" also used silk on the inside, behind the plastic mesh. But it was rather heavy. By being the "007's" silk farther from the mic (diameter was around 8" wide), the slowed wind affected the MKH416 very little. And by being made of balsa wood it was very light.

The silk shouldn't flap or mode, but being too tight isn't too good either.

Though the main thing is that the silk be "sound transparent". You should try the type you are using by talking to the mic through it and without it, to see what changes. And you should blow through the silk to see how much the silk stops.


Carlos

Hi Carlos,

Thanks for clarification.

I will try to remove the foam which is very easy.;-)

Regards
Leigh

The jvc gy-dv5000 with AT4073 seems very sensitive to the level. I have to lower the level setting way down to get good sound.


Be careful with that. Doesn't the 5000 have some sort of attenuator?

A mic pot should be around the middle as a routine. If levels are higher or lower you should use some help, from an attenuator cable or a preamp.

With digital audio, sometimes higher levels can be worst sounding that low levels increased during post.


Carlos

Hi Carlos,

Thanks for the advice.

One cameraman Case told me to buy AT8202 Attenuators several days ago. I was just thinking to save some money and omit that one if I can. Now I think that I have to get one.

Regards
Leigh

Hi Carlos,

May I ask if a cheaper second hand low end multi channel simple mixer will help the situation? i.e. this one Click here (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Music-instruments/Instruments/Pro-audio-recording/Studio-mixers-effects/auction-50330356.htm)

TIA

Regards
Leigh

Be careful with that. Doesn't the 5000 have some sort of attenuator?

A mic pot should be around the middle as a routine. If levels are higher or lower you should use some help, from an attenuator cable or a preamp.

With digital audio, sometimes higher levels can be worst sounding that low levels increased during post.


Carlos

In case someone want to see some detail photos.

Here are some diy wind screen photos I took today.

Click here (http://www.smootharm.com/art/IMGA6026_s.jpg)
Click here (http://www.smootharm.com/art/IMGA6028_s.jpg)
Click here (http://www.smootharm.com/art/IMGA6029_s.jpg)
Click here (http://www.smootharm.com/art/IMGA6030_s.jpg)
Click here (http://www.smootharm.com/art/IMGA6031_s.jpg)
Click here (http://www.smootharm.com/art/IMGA6032_s.jpg)
Click here (http://www.smootharm.com/art/IMGA6033_s.jpg)
Click here (http://www.smootharm.com/art/IMGA6034_s.jpg)
Click here (http://www.smootharm.com/art/IMGA6035_s.jpg)
Click here (http://www.smootharm.com/art/IMGA6036_s.jpg)

Regards
Leigh

I made a test video to compare the performance of silk windscreen against no windscreen, foam, foam with silk windscreen combination using a desk fan.

The test configuration is still the same as listed in my previous post.

The video file is around 60mb encoded with wmv format.

Click here (http://www.smootharm.com/art/www.smootharm.com.2006_3_12.wmv)

If you can't access through www.smootharm.com website, you might try the following url link.

Click here (http://www.salenz.com/video/www.smootharm.com.2006_3_12.wmv)

Tell me what do you think.

Regards
Leigh