I can tell you the best motor by far is one from a cd disc man

Well, that remains to be seen. I've already used one, and it's certainly quiet and stable, but it may not rotate at a high enough rate.

More to the point -- I've seen a lot of Agus's footage, but little of everyone else's. So I'm inclined to use Agus's design as the best point of reference.

I really want to build an Agus35 but before I do I want to get my info right, so please bear with me on this one.

Does the .7x wide angle converter (Century Optics) or the Achromatic Diopters (Century Optics) create depth of field to be used with the Agus35?

I'm not to keen about the physics of light and the lenses you guys are using. What lenses do you guys recommend to a novice like myself who doesn't know much about SLR lenses?

I want to do some close up work, like with the achromatic diopter mentioned above. What lenses would you guys recommend?

Is a eBay a good source to find these things? What about Ritz, or B&H Photo Video, etc.?

The interchangeability of lenses have been adressed before and I wanted to know all lenses were compatible with the F to C mount adapter mentioned in a post earlier. Thanks for your guys' help!! :]

Randy,

I had the same confusion with the wide angle adapters, but they are saying you need to get one that is wide angle and macro so that you can use the macro part, not the wide angle part. Go to ebay and type "wide angle macro ??mm", with the ?? being your thread size needed. That's where I got mine, and it was only $32. As for the SLR lens, get the best one you can. I would try to find a 50mm f1.8. The 50mm is the closest to what the eye sees. Remember, you want the best lens possible! Good Luck...

Clay

if you had a 50mm slr lense then you would want a wide angle macro 50mm?

nvm, i found a wide and macro lense where the front lense detaches and then it becomes a macro lense! perfect for this right? and also, i bought some fresnel lense. would that help the vigenetting and stuff if i put it between of the macro lense(connected to camera lense) ang the ground glass?

Danny,

The macro is for the video camera. You don't need the wide angle part. Here:

Camera - macro - spinning cd - fresnel - SLR lens

That's the order. If you are confused about mm, look at your video camera lens and there will be a number (37 for mine) with a circle and a line through it next to the number. This is the thread size for filters, extensions, wide angle and macro lenses to be added to the video camera. Hope that helps...

Clay

ok i get it now. so the wide angle macro lense with the detachable wide angle lense will work then right?

yea probably. agus used a magnifying glass in his original one i think

I call it the Agus35 Mark III.

http://www.sillydaddy.com/Agus35_MarkIII.html

I Haven't shot any video with it yet, I need to close the sides and build a way to mount it to my video camera and maybe paint it.

I'm thinking a bellows would look really cool and make it look like a professional piece of equipment.

Also a cover over the motor and battery would help make it look nicer.

A few of notes,

I used the bolts so I could adjust the distance from the lens to the GG. The double nuts are tightend agains each other but not tight toward the front. This lets the bolt spin.

I used Blind Nuts/T-Nuts on the back. I cut the barbs off and smoothed them down. I then put them through the back and used some hot glue to hold them.

Once I got the distance right, I put nuts on the part of the bolts that protruded from the back and tightened them to hold it all in place.

The cost so far....

$1.50 for the 1/8" hardboard
$3.00 for the bolts, nuts and washers
$0 for the CD motor and spindle, The player was broken ($12.00 for a new player)
$0 for the GG, It was lying around in an empty CD spindle.
$2.50 for Battery Holder

Have anyone even tried to put the fresnel before the GG ? i havent have any success, so i put it after it using a magnifying lens.

Ok, here are some new pics of the adapter.

http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter01.jpg
http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter02.jpg
http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter03.jpg
http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter04.jpg
http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter05.jpg
http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter06.jpg
http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter07.jpg
http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter08.jpg
http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter09.jpg
http://altoque.tv/35mmAdapter/adapter13.jpg


BTW... tom, let me tell you that you need to close that box, or the outside light will ruin the image, you need to make a camera obscura, and all the GG have to be covered... (no peeking !)

Agus,

Two questions: How did you attach your GG to the spindle? That's an awfully large hole to close... How did you keep it perfectly parallel to the lenses?

I'm redesigning mine. Pics up shortly.

- jim

I've just dismantled an old cd player and taken out the motor, but my queston is where do i put the wires??? i cant seem to get it to run

Noah,

Cut the positive and negative wires leading to the motor (red and black) and make sure you leave the wires long enough. Then, you need to connect them to a switch or directly to a battery pack (both can be purchased at Radio Shack). The battery pack will also have red and black wires, connect those together. For the switch, connect the two red wires to the switch, then the black ones together (I think). They also have a switch that allows for connecting the negatives to it. Hope that explains it.

Clay

Almost got the full package now. Got some fresnel lenses this morning. Can't wait to give this bad boy a try.

Anyone know if its safe to run a CD motor from a 9v battery?

And is the fresnel lens purpose to increase the image size that is projected onto the cd?

Thanks

the cd motor runs to fast in my opinion with 2 AAA batteries which is like 3 volts... so to answer your question on the 9 volt battery, its a negative. 1 triple A would probably the best case but not the easiest to pull off... 2 AAA is probably worth settling for

what people refuse to understand is that a normal macro adapter DOES NOT work. What most people are using is a cheap wide angle lens made for the smaller cameras. if you rip the lens off it has a special macro magnify lens inside that works. However for people like me and you who own a prosumer camera with a 58mm attachment this sucks because all we can do is put the smaller wide angle adapter on the camera and zooom in so that we don't see the ring from the adapter. This causes some zoom issues, as when you have the adapter working you are zoomed in a bit and when you move the camera it then reacts like a camera that is zoomed in a bit. And if you have ever tried to move a camera while zoomed in you know the remendous shake and control issues. I have been to numerous camera stores and explained that i needed such a lens for a 58mm camera and they say no such lens exists... it would have to be made special order and we're not even going to discuss how much a special order lens would cost to be made.

The problem lies in that the macro lens is not made to be zoomed into and you need to zoom a little to get rid of the black edge areas on the Ground glass projection.

I am thinking the magnifying glass (fresnal) plastic sheet people in this threat have bought from wallgreens will solve the problem and for only 5 bucks... I have bought one but my working 35mm adapter i no longer together... but it appears like it should do the job. If I am wrong please correct me.

Century Optics makes a $210 +7 macro (they call it an "achromatic diopter") fitted for the 58mm threading of the GL1/GL2. There is also a cheaper version -- $70 -- a larger version of the kind of lens Agus is using, on eBay.

I have and can report good experiences with the Century Optics lens.

I'm also of the opinion that a CD motor will not work -- it doesn't spin at a high enough rate.

- jim

Jim -

I was told by more than 2 camera stores that the century would not do what we are looking for it to do...

and what are your experiences with the cd motor which make you think it is not fast enough?

Please share!

Well, I called Century and spoke to a woman who seemed very informed about their lenses. This was before I bought it, mind you, though now having had it for a few days I can assure you that with the achromatic diopter rated +7, you will be able to place your camera within inches of the source of focus and zoom to fill frame. In fact, the higher the rating of the diopter's power, the closer you HAVE TO keep your DV cam to your target image. +2 lets you get about a foot out; +7 forces you to close the ditance to under 4 inches.

I put together a quick-n-dirty Agus35 last week, housed in a Radio Shack project box and it failed for more than one reason. I suspect that its largest failing was in spinning the disc at a high enough rate as to maintain a satisfactory image. What I got at the time was footage that looked to have been heavily gaussian blurred, with foreground details surrounded by a halo of fuzz, and background details falling off into a mess of noise.

Yesterday, I started a new design, based around Agus's latest pics, which give some insight into his success:

1) He uses a motor with high rotation
2) He's got everything about the adapter placed within inches of the DV camera's lens, which I imagine helps to maintain a high degree of the original image.
3) He said that his GG was sanded with 600 grit, originally, but now reveals that he would have preferred 1000 grit or higher.

With that said, here's the progress of my new Agus35:

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/front.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/rear.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motor.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/assembled.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motordetail.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/sanded.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finished.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedmount.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedrear.jpg

Computerwise, I am a technical luddite and have not the knowing of some probably simple things.

If someone can tell me how and where to upload a .pdf or turbocad .tcw file which can then be found here, I will put up a diagram of an adaptor for PD150/VX2000, which contains two telescope eyepiece lenses I put together to aquire and frame within an 18mm diameter circular intensifier tube display.

This is too small for the Agus35 and will only demonstrate a principle. As a zoom-through device it works fine with the PD150 and requires only a minor camcorder refocus for different zoom settings.

It required low to average hobby level machining skill to build on a small Taiwanese lathe taking about six hours.

Alternative lenses of a lower magnification might be available as trade parts for some other application and might be usable in an altered arrangement of my adaptor.

Hey guys, how is it going... i am seeing plenty of Agus35 adapters being built lately, and that make me really proud :) !!!

OK, for the ones that are using the CD motor, it is awesome it locks up perfectly with zero vibration, also those fakes cds that comes sanded from factory are also 100% perfect.

Currently i am solving the problem that soon you will be into, that is how to put the adapter into the camera, and actually work with it. so i am making a support base, using only electric lamps parts, that cost almost nothing.

Now, i am working really hard now to make a comercial version, which will cost less than 1k, complete with support base, metal rods, and the image will come up perfectly, it wont be necesary to flip it up. Also, this new adapter, will be hermetic, so no dust will ruin the image (problem that we dont have cause there are no mirrors and the GG is spining always. Then let me tell ya, that we are planning to build it for small size cams, like my TRV18 to the GL2, we dont want to make it to the XLS1, cause its lens is too big and we actually dont have one :)...

DVX100 seens like a problem too, cause of the size of the lens, SO, i will need soon any volunteer that can give us the size of the lens diameter (not the lens size, but the whole thing) so we can calculate how to make most cameras to fit to the new adapter.

So, we need only the Size and model of camera, please send an email to agus@altoque.tv, send your name, cause it will be saved then in case you want our adapter and will make a special price !!!

Ok, hope all the adapters that you are building works like mine, cause it is GREAT !!!!! and soon you will have an option to buy a comercial version (make of steel and good plastic) which will flip the image, and make no vigneting and will be all calibrated so there will be no distorsion of the image.

John - can't wait to see some footage...

Agus - what brand cds did you find the "allready frosted cds" in???? A bunch of people have tried asking you this question a couple times... and you have yet to answer... I have gone through

fujifilm - 30 pack (1gg disc) bought at radio shack

philips - 30 pack (1gg disc) bought at Best Buy, was cheap and came in a 50 spindal case.

Unknown Brand 100 pack $20 at best buy included 4 gg discs

But none have been pre frosted... so what brand are you finding these gems in?

I just sanded a cd with 600 grit paper (I used 300 before on a previous cd) and no matter how much I sand the cd with the 600 grit the image projected is not as good as the 300 grit... what am i doing wrong?

Hi Guys

I've just been to a glaziers and asked about having the fake cd made out of glass and was told that it could be made out of 4mm Satin glass. It will cost about £6 to have it made.

I asked if it could be made about 1-2mm and was told that it wasn't possible to cut glass any shallower than 4mm.

Does anyone know if this type of glass would work?

Regards

Terry

I'm thinking that maybe the glass would be too heavy for a cd motor. If you have a more powerful motor however it might work

To: Terry Wright. I don't think your satin glass is going to work. First up you've got a balance problem, then there's the power issue as mentioned in another response. The satin glass that I know also transmits too much light, is not finely opaque enough to adequately work as a projection screen as fine ground glass or etched glass would.

To: Everyone. Here's one slightly out of what you US folks call left field. Some years ago I thought I would do a conscientious thing and clean a rear projection screen on a Teleray motion picture film viewer.What I didn't know was the frosted glas wasn't. Instead it was a fine mist coat of something which cleaned off instantly very nicely.

I ended up using a piece of plastic shop bag stretched tightly over the glass sheet. It had a few wrinckles but did the job.

A piece of shop bag, Mitre 10 Hardware and Officeworks shop bags as used in Australia seem best, more opacity, less variation in thickness.

Pressed between two clear CD disks it seems to display an image without too much flare but still not as good as a ground glass. I arrived at this through ransacking my imagination on how to achieve a uniform coat of wax on the surface of a clear disk then thought of pressing it between two and giving it a few seconds or more in a microwave to melt the wax. Getting rid of the bubbles is a real cow.

Another good opaque material is the motor vehicle registrations stickers were have here, unfortunately in too small a piece. I have not got round to finding the source as I diverged from the project onto something else.

(The original project was to devise an oscillating groundglass for the film plane of any 35mm SLR camera, motor to fit in the space where the film canister goes but then I realised there would have had to have been too much electronic trickery to keep the glass moving in phase with the scanning frame rate of the camcorder and vibration would have been an issue, so I did not go there.)

I dont know which packs of cds will bring the already sanded disk, i just found it while i was looking something else in my room, but i call for a friend that buys tons and tons of cds in spindle and also had a few...

i only bought Imation, Samsung, and some other brand, so tried up those brands.

about the anamorphic adapter, well nope it wont work, you need some adapter that either replace the SLR lens, or put it in front.

I will try to put some pics of the new footage as soon as possible

This is an email that I received from the P&S people.

"Our Mini35Digital image converter works with anamorphic lenses. You can simply attach the lenses onto the converter and then you will be shooting in anamorphic. Good anamorphic lenses that we can recommend are the Elite lenses available from Slow Motion, USA"

I think there is a possibility that it might work. Theoretically if the anamorphic was the outer lens projecting into your main lens then the adapter would be projecting a squished image, which can be un-squished in post. The image size would be the same as if we didn't use the anamorphic. This is just my theory. Any additional input would be greatly appreciated.

Geez, I hope this doesn't turn into a "Why are quality Anamorphic Lenses so expensive???" thread!

You would have to adapt the lens in front of the adaptor and relay lens with the anamorphic adaptor or use a full-on anamorphic len$. To clarify, everything needs to be done before the spinning glass image plane, unless you are using a cam with true 16:9 chips - but then you wouldn't have the need for an anamoprhic adaptor, unless you wanted "pseudo 2:35:1"

- don

Ok,

here are some news, for all the interested, i have decided to release a commercial version of the adapter, made with good hard material (alluminiun and plastic)

It will also include the support base with 15mm rods, using standards measures for compatibilty with other cine accesories, a matte box, and of course the adapter.

Now, i need some help here...

we are still working on flipping the image, seens like it is hard to find a solution, that will not raise the costs to high, cause listen to this... we want to sell the whole system for under 1k !!

Also we want to give compability for all kind of lenses, so you wont need to buy adaptors for each type of lenses, we will provide the pieces.

Ok,

so we need some creative ideas for flipping the image, and please we need some pictures of your cameras, Taylor sent us his pics of the DVX with complete measure of the lens. We need this info to give as most compability to all type of cameras as possible so you wont need to buy aditional items to make it work.

For XL users, let me tell ya it is a tricky camera, and we dont have one to try it up. but we will try also to give compability to it as well.

So,

please any ideas, post them here, and all images and size measures of your cameras please send them to agus@altoque.tv

Thanks for all your support, and we will be working our ass as hard as possible so we can bring the first version in January if possible at a very very low introducing price.

the whole system will be really cheap and the we guarantee 100% perfect picture with no vigneting at all.

BTW we shoot some new footage with a improved version which could be considered the BETA version (sorry no pics for now and video still rendering with film effects)

The Bolex H16 groundglass viewfinder path might be worth studying. Objective lens>>>90degree prism>>>groundglass(on one face of prism)>>>lens>>>90degree prism or mirror>>>eyepiece diopter>>>

It is however, a long path and on a 35mm scale might be unwieldy. With this method, the rotating groundglass disk would have to be mounted horizontally.

agus, thanks for the info.

about flipping the picture. i thought about turning the lcd display about 150 degrees just before the camera starts flipping the picture again. then put a mirror in front of the lcd and the picture should then only have the horizontal flip but is not upside down anymore and can be viewed when standing behind or beside the camera. the final flipping horizontal and vertical can then be made in post.

about camera measures: could you please post the camera models you allready have the measures of, so people dont send the same modelmeasurments again and again.

does anyone have a website where all the pictures and infos are collected?

does anyone know how many diopters the conversion lens must have to use the pd-150/vx-2000 with the agus35 i only own a +4 lens but that was not enough.

Thomas

I have been working on an Agus 35 and I have a little different design.
I used an old Nikon film camera and took some parts out of it. I noticed that the view finder had a small piece of rectangular frosted glass in it. I used this instead of a sanded spinning cd and found it to be easy to focus on and lets plenty of light in. I have a drawing of what I did if any one is interested. I am experimenting with the picture quality now.
I do not know what this rectangular piece of glass is but it makes a good picture for the video camera to zoom in on and focus.

Video Cam>>UVFilter>>short PVC pipe>>Nikon view finder Rectangular Lenses>>threaded PVC adapter>>short spacer>>Lenses Mounting Plate off old Nikon camera>>Sigma 35mm Lenses

All PVC pipe was 1 ½ in. The Nikon Rectangular Lenses fits into the pvc pipe allowing the Sigma 35mm lenses to focus on it.

well there is an optical way to flip the image.

Just use a concave lens, any half decent optometrist can make you one, the only thing is to know the correct size, anyone here know anything about physics and the best place to put the concave glass within the piece?

Zac

I'm currentlyworking on my third version of this adapter... I haven't installed the motor yet, but here is some pics

http://www.orfilms.com/adapter1.jpg

http://www.orfilms.com/adapter2.jpg

A furthur idea on alternative groundglass material between disks, - I tried a small piece of translucent window material which had my new PIN number on it.

This stuff seems to work better than shop bag and might be sourced from a stationer or the manufacturers of the PIN number forms might be able to advise the source.

It may be a commonly available modern plastic based tracing paper. Placing between two clear disks to keep it in alignment might be an option.

I have also asked Chris to post a .jpg of a a relay adaptor for the PD150 I mentioned furthur back in these posts.

It is at http://www.dvinfo.net/media/bhe11.jpg

I have a .tcw design drawing showing lens positions however in making the prototypes, I strayed from the design for practical reasons.

This has to be incorporated and the drawing re-dimensioned. The adaptor relays a smaller 18mm image target and demonstrates a general principle only. It also does not re-erect the inverted image.

I think if the image can be flipped without any loss of resolution or image detail then it is good (may be we should try to see how the original was flipped). If there is a loss, then I agree with the post on using mirrors on the lcd and flipping it in post. BTW the P&S version had a 1 to 2 f-stop loss. How many stops are we losing with this version.

Chris - The cat just likes to sniff the camera and make faces at me like. I'm more important than this stupid machine... pay attention to me!

It's actually funny because he jumped into the picture, I wasn't even planning on having him in the picture.


J Clayton - The support structure is:

a 3420 Telephoto Lens Support from Manfrotto/bogen (this thing almost seems like it is built for this rig... and its only like 50 bucks I think)

and a camera shoulder mount which I picked up years ago (i don't remember how much, but under 100)

Peter,

...and both the mount and the telephoto support just fit together or is there some rigging involved?

Do you know the model of the shoulder mount?

Thanks.
Clay

both of the items have the standard tripod screw... so the shoulder mount is screwed into the telephoto lens mount which is screwed into the video camera.

unfourtunately I do not know the brand for the shoulder mount, but I'm sure someone in another area of this forum could point you to a good cheap one like it... i know varizoom makes some stuff like it...

http://www.varizoom.com/pages/supportindex.php

EDIT: I think I found a model that looks to be the newest model of what I have at:

http://www.studio1productions.com/dvbrace.htm

its 149.99

you may be able to find something cheaper....

Alright...questions for those of you in the know about optics and/or those of you with a GL1 or similar cam that has an Agus35 working:

1) I cannot pull focus with my 35mm lens. I'm talking both alone and with the adapter attached.

Upon investigating -- and here my ignorance of optics will show -- I found that I need to place the lens about 6 inches from the surface of the projection (in this case, my eye) in order for anything to come into focus. Which begs the questions: 1a) how do you shrink the distance between the 35mm lens and the GG, or 1b) am I stuck keeping the lens to a distance of 6in. or greater from the GG? (i.e. making my adapter larger?)

2) Anyone having success with a CD motor/clasp setup at a proper speed? By proper, I mean that I assume these motors have a max speed they're rated for -- with the typical portable CD player runningg off of 2 "AA" batteries (3 volts), I assume hooking one up to a 9 volt battery to be a mistake.

However, running through tests today, I noticed a palpable shimmer in my (as yet focused) imagery that was directly related to the slow RPM of the motor. Hooking it up to a 9v battery cured the problem, but I have doubts as to how long the motor will run in this mode.

- jim

Agus,

I think if you are going to make a commercial product and sell it that way, you need to flip the image. I personally would not want to spend around $1000 for an Agus35 and not have my image correct. Maybe you can offer a cheaper version that doens't flip the image? Give the people a choice!

Clay

P.S. I don't know any good way to do this, but I think it needs to be done. You might just study exactly how SLR cameras flip the image and then find some way to use that???

To Jim Lafferty:

Could you tell us what 35mm camera lens you're using. If you have to place it so far from the groundglass there's something not right there - unless you are using a projector lens. Some sit off about 6 inches from the film plane.

Just for curiosity sake, take the groundglass out and see if you are getting the same result direct into the camcorder. I have observed in my tests, the camera aquires the aerial image.

To All:

I dismantled the VCR16B lens set and tried that last night. It underscans the 35mm image frame into the VX2000/PD150, by about 15% so it's not a viable option. It is about 7x power, 3x was too small so 5x may be about right.

Here's a page I put together rather quickly about these adapters and the principals involved. Let me know what you think.

Paul

www.thecountrybulletin.com/dv_dof.htm

nice page. but i think if you have fresnel lense, then you don't need the magnifier cause they just do the same thing. correct me if im wrong

Danny <if you have fresnel lense, then you don't need the magnifier cause they just do the same thing. correct me if im wrong>

Things are just getting started on all of this. So I guess you could say that the jury is still out. See the links to the graphics showing the effect on the ground glass by the fresnel. It brightens the edges. The magnification is to allow your camcorder's screen to be filled with the image (24 x 36mm). I'm not trying to build that kind of adapter so I'm not sure. That's just my take on it.

Paul

"To Jim Lafferty:

Could you tell us what 35mm camera lens you're using. If you have to place it so far from the groundglass there's something not right there - unless you are using a projector lens. Some sit off about 6 inches from the film plane."

This is a standard Nikon Nikkor 50mm lens with an aperture of f/1.4. The same effect can be seen from my Pentax 50mm lens with f/1.7. They're both standard lenses fitted for 35mm cameras. Neither of them can get a focused image on my GG which sits about a 1/2 inch from the rear of the lens, and three inches or so from my GL1's macro (which, incidently, can pick up the grain on the GG fine).

- jim

Jim,

I could be wrong, if so forgive me! But, I thought the GG must be closest to the video camera lens, and further from the Camera lens. It may be a whole different can of worms with the GL series. But from what I have seen, the GG needs to be really close (1/4"?) to the video camera. You might try reversing what you have already tried, or have you? Just a thought...

Clay