I'm considering getting the PDX10 for video work to include weddings. The lux rating bothers me a little...7 as opposed to 2 on the VX-2000 or even 1 on the VX-2100. How does the PDX10 perform in low light (without external lights)? Is it capable of good video at a reception in low light (standard church hall or hotel lighting) or is additional light needed? I've seen a sample of the VX-2000 and it was very good. Appreciate your input.
Aloha,
Randy

Don't consider the PDX10 for weddings. The VX2000 is a much better choice---because of its lower light requirement. The bigger CCDs will also give you a cleaner image. If you need a good mic, just get a Beachtek, since the VX doesn't have XLRs.

Thanks Frank. I've just spent the last 30 minutes reading a thread which discusses this same topic and I've come to the same conclusion (you were a contributor to that thread also). Appreciate your input and I'll do the seach first next time. Have a happy holiday.
Randy

Most wedding guys I know use a VX2000/PD150 or XL1. They are both good cams with lower light. The next best cam would be a JVC DV500 or it's new replacement. But for the money, the VX2000 is quite the steal.

Thanks for the holiday wishes---if only I believed in Santa. :-((

I've just tested the PDX10 for Computer Video magazine. As the VX2000 is just a smidgen more exoensive than the PDV10 it was an excellent A / B test to set up. They are interesting cameras to have side-by-side, and the 16:9 performance of the PDX is noticeably superior to the VC2k's - but only in good light.

The low light performance of the PDX10 is poor, and alongside the much bigger VX2000 it lags by three whole stops, and three and a half stops at full telephoto. To put this into perspective you’d have the PDX10 at maximum aperture and +18dB of gain up in the same light that that the VX2000 would simply be at maximum aperture. This huge difference hides the fact that in practise the PDX10 has very low noise chips, and even using +12 dB of gain it difficult to see the grain. The loss of colour information is very noticeable however.

Stick to the VX for weddings Randy. People don't like you adding light, and the PDX will often insist you do.

tom.

3 whole stops---that's a lot. In photography, even 1 stop lower can ruin the shot.

I tried to shoot with PDX-10 without external lighting and was very disapointed with the result. Most of the event I need to tape was being inside.

Iam looking in to buying the diginova

http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/infos02c.htm

Yes, even one stop is a lot Frank. Say the PDX10 was only one stop less efficient than the VX2k. Then assume that a single light bulb gave good exposure with the VX - you'd have to have two lights on to make the PDX expose correctly.

But three stops means that where the VX shoots with one bulb, the PDX needs 8 bulbs lit to give the same exposure. It's a high price to pay for smaller chips in my view.

tom.

What about follow On camera lights:
http://www.frezzi.com/micro-lights1.htm
http://www.cool-lux.com/docs/new_products.html
http://www.hahnel-usa.com/lights.html
http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/infos02c.htm

Is there out a DV light that is uniform, not blend the people, dont produce a hot spot and flat the image??

Hahnel lights with optical lens say they can doit but is there anyone that have test some lights with he thing they are great?

Lambis

Tom, are you appreciative of the PDX10's ability to suppress noise, as I am?
I just remember seeing the 900/950 comparison stills at the John Beale website and preferring the darker but less noisy image of the 950, though the 900 was/is coveted as being "better in low light". I'm wondering if this pertains at all to the 2000 as well.

Tom,
Thanks for the advice and I agree totally. I've been doing quite a bit of research and am coming up with the same camera in the end. The DCR-VX2100 is the one for me. Have found it for $2038 new at BuyDigitalDirect following this link:
http://www2.buydigitaldirect.com/shop/product.aspx?ref=pricegrabber&sku=DCRVX2100. Tried to go with B&H but they e-mailed me a price that is $360 dollars more. Still wrangling as I'd like to go with them since I bought my current camera there and trust them. Maybe I'll wait a while and see if they come down. Thanks again for yours and everyone's input.
Randy

Randy, I've never heard of BuyDigitalDirect but they have a better than average rating at www.resellerratings.com. The only problem I see is that your Sony warranty may not be honored since its not from a Sony Factory Autohrized Internet Seller (there are very few).

http://www.sel.sony.com/cgi-bin/SEL/consumer/ss5/cgi/aid_list.pl

I'll echo what most have said about the PDX10 vs. VX2000/VX2100 in low light. I've owned both a VX2000 and a PDX10 and there is no competition in less than acceptable lighting. I still use a VX2000 at work and I brought it home for the Holidays. The family videos from this Christmas turned out really great even with dismal indoor lighting.

I'm also still editing a wedding (freebie) with footage from both my past PDX10 and my work VX2000. The ony viable footage from the PDX10 were interviews with a 20w deer-in-headlights accessory shoe light.

Thanks for the advice Gary. I found this seller via CamcorderInfoNet and PriceGrabber. Checked out their customer reviews. Over 900 that say they are worthy. They also offer a 4 year repair/replace warranty for $499 that's pretty good. However, I'm in no hurry and will wait until things settle down a little after the Christmas season. My first wedding isn't until May so I have some time. I've been doing a lot of research and have bought a couple of books to include The Business of Wedding and Special Event Videography by John Goolsby. Hopefully, I'll be able to procure the equipment I need, to include a new camera, wireless mikes, and a digital recorder, and learn to use them correctly before then. This is a freebie for a friend but I want to do the best I can. Eventually, after I retire from my day job, I'll be able to hit this hobby turned obession full time. Thanks again for your help.
Randy

They also offer a 4 year repair/replace warranty for $499 that's pretty good.

The same 4 year warranty is only $150 at B&H so that puts them at roughly the same price. Might be something to consider next year on your purchase.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Guys, just a friendly reminder from your moderator to try and keep posts on the topic of the PDX-10 and not morph this discussion into "where to buy a VX-2100" :-)

Season's best to all!

Thanks Boyd and Tommy (discovered that last night also, good deal). Let's close this one out for now. Happy holidays.
Randy

Gee, guys....

I feel really bad about my PDX10 after all the discussion about its poor performance under low light conditions. That is until I finished a recent editing task.

Having recently filmed a social gathering (with indoor and outdoor persuits [fishing, bike riding, eating drinking etc] , with some poor lighting situations) all in 16:9 and edited in FCX and DVDSP2 burning the DVD, I was able to use many of the colour correction facilities available in FCX to create some very usable footage of the poorly lit indoor scenes.

The final product when viewed on a decent widescreen TV suggested to me that the PDX 16:9 was worth some of the perceived shortcomings. As long as the lighting is not pitch dark and you have some colour correction tools like in FCX, you should be ok.

Regards P

Tom

where did you get the 3 stops from?

when I had a vx2k (since sold it) it came out just under 400asa wheras the pdx comes out about 100asa - maybe you meant the vx2100?

also the pdx has longer telephoto than vx in 4:3 so pull back and compare?

maybe theres a spec lying around stating sensitivity f(xx) at 2000 lux somewhere for each cam?


IMO when you consider noise the vx is unuseable above +6db gain, whereas +12db with the pdx is just useable

the three stop difference is determined experimentally John. I had both the PDX10 and VX2000 set up perpendicular to a large white, evenly lit, projection screen. Both cameras were set to give the same picture, the PDX10 at max wide and the VX zoomed in a bit to match the area exactly. I fed both cameras output to a TV using different inputs so that I could easily A/.B switch between them using the TV's remote.

I varied the light on the screen such that on replay the PDX10 showed that maximum aperture was being used, but no gain-up had taken place. In the same conditions the VX2000 was working at f4.8. If I used telephoto the PDX loses another half stop over the VX's f2.4 max aperture.

Interestingly the chips give slightly different colours on screen, the VX had a blueness and the PD had a brown-ness to the grey as it appeared on TV.

tom.

>the three stop difference is determined experimentally John. I had both the PDX10 >and VX2000 set up perpendicular to a large white, evenly lit, projection screen.
>tom.
Now I wonder about the projection screen Tom…compared to an evenly lit white surface such as a painted wall, or white fabric…it seems the projection screen may have been slightly if not highly reflective and not the kind of scientific control one may think…while in actual shooting environments there may be numerous reflective material in your frame, seldom would one be shooting a solid reflective surface. Useful information perhaps…but not sure how accurate the results would be

Don’t matter though…still love you guys !!!

David, you do my experimental technique a diss-service. Of course I used a dead matt white low efficiency screen. What I would say is this though. The PDX10 I had on test needed the exposure preset knocked back two clicks to the left to stop highlights blowing out, so in effect this 'claws back' some low light sensitivity.

tom.

Tom i highly respect your work and your conclusions...didnt mean to offend...nor do i completely understand projection screens as you may well see by now
Please forgive my ignorance