Does anybody know if there's any sound quality difference between the Sennheiser Evoulution 100 and Evolultion 500 UHF wireless systems or is just
more bells and whistles with the more expensive Evo 500? I have the EVO 500
Lavelier setup but want to add a second setup but don't want to shell out another $800 if I don't have too.

I'll have to do a little checking but you get a few more frequency memories in bot the xmitter and receivers. I also think the 500 receiver is diversity receiver unlike the 100 series.

The extra memories would be very nice feature, especially in a busy location. However, the 100 is a very nice solid performer.

If you are going to spend $800 you may want to look at other manufacturers systems that are even more professional.

Nathan,

Any other manufacturer suggestions that are better than Sennheiser in the $800.00 range?

I am not sure. Lecrosonics is one that comes recommended but I think it is closer to $1,000.

Actually, the 100 claims to be diversity as well, even though it has only one antenna rod.

John, are you talking $800 list price or actual street price? The Evo 100 ENG kit lists for 800+ but I got mine for less than 500.

How can they do diversity with only one antenna. That makes no sense, unles they are using two differnt x-mit frequencies at the same time, which is very unlikely.

Don, I agree, it takes two separate antennas--preferably spaced at least 1/4 wavelength apart--to do true diversity. And they are definitely not on any more than one frequency at a time (not that doing that would provide sufficiently discrete paths to accomplish the ends of diversity). So I was a bit puzzled at the claims of having a diversity receiver. (I even started wondering if they might be using the metal case as a second antenna.)

Here's where the confusion comes in--and it took me a visit to the manual to figure it out--there are two different models of receivers in the EVO 100 series. Often a dealer ad or website description will mention diversity receiver in the general notes for the series, without distinguishing by individual model. The EM100 receiver, which is the half-rack model, does have two antenna jacks and whips, thus true diversity. The EK100, which Sennheiser calls the "pocket receiver" and which we think of as the camera-mount model, is the one that is supplied in the ENG kit, and it has but a single front end.

The good news is that so far I have found the radio performance of this kit to be first-rate, knock on wood.

Mike is right, the 100 series are not true diversity. The rack mount systems are.

That said, the non-diversity systems perfomance is first-rate and I have yet to have a drop out except when exceeding the rated range.

Try the AKG wireless .. it got true digital diversity and uses AA batteries for transmiiter and AAA batteries for receiver (2 antennas). Sound is good - if not comparable with Sennheiser's. The lavalier cable of the AKG is a lot much thicker (and less prone to breakage) than Sennheiser's.

Nathan, what is the rated range? I personally tested the EVO in the field (literally) and had my daughter walk up the road wearing the xmitter (and me with the rcvr plugged into my camera and listening on the cans). When she got nearly 1/4 mile away and I could still hear her Steve Maddens clip-clopping on the ground and the water gurgling in the creek, I told her to turn around. Hey, in video production, it's good enough sound if you can still hear them when you can no longer see them! :-)

TingSern Wong, do you have a model number? I recently looked up one AKG model that meets that description, but it doesn't seem very easily available in the U.S. and very little info available on it (one dealer offering the model--as special order only--didn't have a picture, and I haven't seen any magazine reviews of that model, I forget which one)

As for breakage, I do know one thing, the Sennheiser case is solid metal, unlike the A/T, Azden and Samson models I have owned, which can help if you drop it. As for batteries, it uses a 9V, which by my non-scientific way of thinking would tend to allow higher-power circuitry than 3 volts, maybe with shorter battery life as a tradeoff.

The AKG model I have is -

Transmitter = UHF PT40
Receiver = UHF PR40

Disadvantage of AKG versus Sennheiser -
Got only one frequency (fixed). You need matching transmitter and receiver. BUT, again, how many times do we really need to change frequencies?

Advantages?
Receiver has dual antenna (and true digital diversity). It is NOT a digital transmitter/receiver however. Signals still go by analog - UHF frequency, FM. The lavalier cable is much thicker (and I judge, less prone to breakage) than Sennheiser's version.
Uses AA and AAA batteries, versus 9V batteries on Sennheiser. I can even use NiMH 2300mAh and 800mAh on the AKG. Very much lower operating costs. Also, try finding 9V in some parts of your country?

TS

I think the rated range is about 250 feet and it will work just fine at that range and more. I do not know how many hours the Sennheiser will work on 9 volt battery. I know its more than 2 or 3 hours. Though I only use fresh batts for important shoots, even the stale ones seem to work just fine.

Its the fact that the Sennheiser is such a well made machine that earns it high marks. You get a lot bang for your buck.

BTW, I don't berate other peoples gear. If your EVO is working great, that's what this board is for; to let other people know what works.

Nathan, I don't berate O.P.'s gear either, although I do allow myself the latitude of pointing out the weaknesses of some of the gear I already own (less rugged case on some of the models I bought before the Senn.)

TingSern, thanks for the model number. Here are some interesting comments:

http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_akg_adds_wms/


http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM03/Content/AKG/PR/PR-40.html

http://www.americanmusical.com/st/aspx/i-AKG+PR40GB/en/item.htm#AKG%20PR40GB%20UHF%20Diversity%20Guitarbug%20Wireless%20System

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--AKGWMS40407

One dealer is quoting 35 hour+ battery life for the PT 40 xmitter! That's phenomenal. I can't imagine I'd ever get anywhere near that on the 9 volt, although I just don't know, I have never kept them in until they're dead, choosing instead to do like Nathan and put in new ones before each important shoot. As for finding 9 volt batteries in my country? Just about anywhere batteries are sold, from drugstores to gas stations, Home Depot, WalMart, etc. Yes 9V are more expensive than AA, especially if they don't last as long.

As for the usefulness of frequency agility, well, I have had single-frequency and two-frequency systems, and most of the time it's not a problem...but if just ONCE, you are on a critical shoot and someone is already using that freq., or if there is a lot of noise or interference, the ability to change freq. becomes worth its weight in gold. Just another one of the many trade-offs we make when choosing a/v gear.

One thing I am convinvced of, that whether or not it comes with true diversity or switchable frequency, a UHF system is well worth the difference over VHF.

Actually, I can't see why the AKG should be less tough than the Sennheiser's. My friend has the Sennheiser. Both AKG and Sennheiser are metal casing. (I checked - sorry, Sennheiser is metal, but AKG is fibreglass). But, I don't think fibreglass is that easy to break either.

That 35 hours runtime applies to the transmitter (AA) using normal alkaline batteries. If you feed it with 2300mAh NiMH Sanyo batteries, it goes up to 56 hours - that's as far as I can test :-).

The receiver gets much lower - because it uses only AAA batteries. 9 hours if alkaline and 13-15 hours if using 800mAh NiMH batteries.

YES - I agree there are risks involved in wireless gear using one fixed frequency. However, the UHF band is a lot much less crowded than VHF ... so, there is less chance of interference.

My ideal will be a mix combining the best of Sennheiser and AKG :-). Heh, are the Germans & Austrians listening? Namely, a Sennheiser model that uses only AA batteries.

TS

TS,
Having owned several boats and two Corvettes, I totally endorse the toughness of fiberglass (although being an insulator and not a conductor it has no shielding properties, nor would it be a good choice for a hand mic body to be used with a plug-on transmitter which uses the mic body as an antenna). Fiberglass is a much stronger material than the typical polystyrene used in the cabinets of those earlier wireless systems I owned.

What really gets me intrigued about the PT40 is its extreme battery life; you could leave the thing on all day long! Their competitors have some catching up to do in that department. Maybe the Germans and Austrians are listening. These are both high-quality companies, I have a couple of AKG conventional mics, and have owned both Sennheiser and AKG headphones.

One thing peculiar about the Senny, and I don't know how the PR40 addresses this because I am not personally familiar with it, the EVO receiver has an XLR cable which plugs right into the MA100, which would suggest that it is balanced, but it truly is not. Very little consequence with the 18 inch long cable, but it would be nice if it were actually a balanced output.

The AKG (and the Sennheiser too) comes with their own receiver port to XLR connector. However, on the AKG, it is part of the kit, but the Sennheiser is OPTIONAL - meaing, you have to pay to get the cable.

For me, I never connect any audio source directly into a digital recorder without using a FPM (field production mixer). The reason is - a digital recorder has NO headroom above 0dB. In live environments, you can NEVER predict how loud a sound will be, and it be extremely hard to find an acceptable audio recording level. Hence - I connect the AKG receiver into my FPM (which have a user settable limiter and compressor that comes on when the input sound exceeds a given threshold). The FPM output goes in my XL1.

That way, no clipping audio will EVER be recorded on a properly calibrated XL1.

It does mean carrying another piece of equipment (the FPM) - but, to me, it is a godsend if it prevents the harsh distortion when signals above 0dB gets into the digital audio recorder.

TS

TS,
Actually, if you buy the ENG kit, Sennheiser includes the XLR cable too. Wowee! What a deal, right? hee hee! It is worth it, though, because if you want the plug-on transmitter it'll cost a lot more later to buy separately.

True enough on the zero headroom. But I have rarely had trouble with this issue, because I often record with the AGC on, and it's quick-acting enough to clamp most spikes. The only exception being when I was standing downstage in the media pit, recording a heavy-metal rock band, when the mic preamps got a little overwhelmed. But it was fine in the end, because I wound up bringing in different audio in post-production. And I could have turned on the attenuator while recording if I was really thinking about it.

Having said that, some outboard compression would certainly be useful. To say nothing of some EQ. What mixer are you using?

Have you heard of the Campressor from Peachtek? It's small enough to screw onto the bottom of the camera. That would solve one of my issues. You see, it just gets to a point where, between the battery belt for the lights, plus wireless mics, plus VariZoom, plus plus plus, it just becomes more gear than a person wants to lug around by himself, and in fact hampers the mobility of a solo videographer in a run-and-gun situation. Plus, I have to travel with all this stuff, and air travel is tough enough these days even with the stripped-down "road kit" I carry.

Mike,

The ENG kit for Sennheiser will include other components that you might not want - pay good money for keeping things on the shelves gathering dust :-)!! Anyway, I have the AKG version and everything is included. No optional stuff.

Recording with AGC on - to my experience it does not work for nature videography when you want the amplification to remain constant for the duration of the clip. Recording with consistent / constant audio amplification makes subsequent "background noise reduction" a lot much easier.

Mixer - Sound Devices MixPre Field Preamp and Mixer. VERY rugged - and uses AA batteries (only 2).

Regarding the stuff that goes in between the mic and the video camera - I know exactly what you are talking about. My application might not require so much mobility as yours - I set up base, setup equipment and wait :-). 99% of the time, the birds will come into view within 30 seconds .... The key is knowing when and where to do the videography.

If I have to run and shoot, I will only use the Canon XL1 with the zoom mic in front of the camera (on AGC). Mind you, I have taken videos of rock climbers across the other wall (about 100m away - little wind) in the mountains - not artifical walls - and you can pick up her breathing (using Canon XL1 with its default mic).

Beachtek Campressor - no, I haven't used it. Have seen it in the shops ...

Ah yes, nature video, you can definitely do without the "pumping" or "breathing" of an AGC circuit. Speaking of which, I have to see the documentary "Winged Migration." It's supposed to be great.

Actually the Campressor is by Peachtek not Beachtek, and I think it has the Beachtek people upset over the similarity of the name.

That MixPre looks like a really impressive device. Got everything on it, and the size is nice and compact. At one point I thought about getting a Shure FP mixer for convenience of hooking up my audio, but of course those don't have the peak limiter like on yours....and they are a lot bulkier.

Now, as for the Senn ENG kit, I have in fact used every component in it. Nothing wasted. The lav and bodypack transmitter of course are ideal when you have the time and opportunity to mic up the talent. When that's not practical, I take the plug-on transmitter and put on a hand mic--either a Shure or AKG--and use it for the typical hand-held interviews. Usually with a mic flag under the head, displaying the logo of whatever brand is financing the project. I used to use the Azden can transmitter (VHF) but was not satisfied with the performance of the system.

Oh yes, I also keep an XLR cable strapped to my bag, in case of emergency (wireless system failure) so I can unplug the plug-on transmitter from the hand mic and connect the hand mic via cable to the camera....the old-fashioned way, no interference or radio noise! :-)

I also use the default mic often...I should get a Rycote Softie for it...it works well enough that I am not in a big hurry to get a Senn ME, MKH or other such shotgun mic.

"Winged Migration" is a superb movie. Go and see it - you won't regret it. I got the DVD here. Absolutely great filming and audio work - simply fantastic.

I used to have the Shure FP too. 2 problems - the VU meters keep misaligning themselves after a few knocks here and there - and you have to open the casing to fix them. They use 9V batteries (2 of them) - a big problem when ambient temperature is -10 deg C.

On the plus point, it got 3 XLR input -- and variable pan between 3 inputs. MixPre only has 2 XLR input, and fixed panning.

However, on MixPre - can use AA Lithium ... expensive, but will work down to -40 deg C. Other than that, use NiMH will get to -20 deg C, still very good performance.

Sennheiser ENG kit - okay, if you managed to use EVERYTHING in there, then it is worth the money.

XLR cable - yes, good to have one in case of emergencies, but, if you are out of distance between mixer and point of recording, big problem ....

Man, too cold for me!!! :-)

Yeah, I like the kit config...I bought it expressly so as to get that extra transmitter (which really is the difference between the ENG kit and the basic kit, oh and plus the little XLR cable). It's great because you can simply stick any hand mic on it, basically anything with an XLR plug (as long as it doesn't require phantom power) and you have an interview mic. I usually keep it with an SM58 loaded onto it in the front pouch of my camera bag, where I can quickly whisk it out and ...Voila, instant interview mic. I keep both the plug-on and the body pack set to the same frequency so I don't have to go changing channels on the receiver in the heat of the moment, just have to remember to keep the other transmitter not powered up.

As for the cable, again it's just a backup, and in the context of how it's used we are talking just a talking head or a two-shot, max distance 10-12 feet, which is fine with a 25 foot cable.

-20 deg C is about the norm for Everest Base Camp at night. Nobody works at the temperature. BUT, the equipment needs to be kept in tents and hence exposed to -20 deg C. If the batteries can't wake up the next morning, it is as good as having nothing. In fact I have to strip most of the h/w and bake them in the morning sun for one hour first before powering on ... there will be a layer of ice on the printed circuit boards - and if you aren't careful, there's "fun" to watch when power is applied.

TS,
Well, that sounds like quite an adventure! Not exactly the temperatures found in Singapore! :-)

The past couple of days I awoke to about -24C (about -10F) morning temperatures in Vermont, and decided it was not the right time to go skiing, especially when you get on the chair lift and the wind whipping makes it feel 20 degrees colder! But I did manage to go hiking today in Massachusetts, and it actually made it all the way up to -4C (+25F) and it felt warm out in the sun.

My only extreme weather story with the XL1 is at the opposite end of the spectrum. I had a 6AM shoot scheduled, and I had kept the XL1 in my air-conditioned hotel room with me overnight. I then went out into the South Florida humidity, where the morning dew was literally dripping off the roofs. My camera got very sick very quicky in this air, and not even a half hour with the hair dryer aimed down its throat revived it...I wound up sending it to Canon Factory Service afterwards. I had to complete the shoot on my little backup camera, and concluded I should have kept the XL1 plugged in all night to keep it warmed up and drive off the moisture.

Everest BC is once in a lifetime stuff.

Here in Singapore, I deal with what you get in Southern Florida as well - 85% RH and 30 deg C (85 deg F) daily. Got lots of problems with high humidity - especially lenses - fungus problem. But, I don't have problems with my XL1 shooting in this weather, unless it is pouring cats and dogs. In that weather, the camera won't even leave its bag. On a hot and sunny day, RH will be around 75% to 90%. Not exactly dripping - but close. It does not help the XL1 either when I film besides the sea or inside a mangrove swamp!!

I just came across the comments on the Sound Design mixer -- sounds like a pretty good device. Recording live theater with external audio feeds is always a challenge when doing it alone -- the dynamic range of audio is almost as bad as the light contrast. Even with proper setup, and running the averages down around -20 dBM, I still occasionally get nailed by loud peaks -- AGC catches some, but not all. The compressor function of the MixPre sounds like it might fill the bill. (Smaller than my Mackie, as well.)

Vic,

You owe it to yourself to check this MixPre out. Have been using it for 6 months now - excellent. It is simply impossible to drive it to overload at all - no matter how loud the sound is. A single set of 2300mAh NiMH batteries (2 of them are needed) will easily last 3 - 5 days of usage .....

TS

I think I'll order one of the puppies from B&H. Too many times, I've been hit with a screaming actor or some other unexpected "bump" that I'm not quick enough to catch.

Winged Migration sounds interesting -- haven't heard of it. Is it a current production?

Cheers

Vic,

You won't regret it. It is almost indestructable - no moving needles (only LEDs). Built like a tank. Very small and quite light too. Can accept external batteries - but you won't use it. The internal AA batteries are good enough. Has dual phantom power voltages, etc, etc.

Winged Migration? It is on DVD, CD, etc. Or if you are really lucky, you can catch it at Omni-threatre - I think it might be too late, since the US schedule is probably long gone. You can order a copy from Amazon :-).

TS

>>>(Smaller than my Mackie, as well.)>>>>

Ain't that the truth Vic...my 1402 doesn't quite want to squeeze into my portabrace bag...plus you'll need a looooooooong power cord with the Mackie to do some of the outdoor nature stuff like TingSern does. :-)

"Winged Migration" is available from Netflix, put it in your queue. It's the movie that last year got robbed of the Best Documentary Oscar by "Bowling for Columbine," a pseudo-documentary by radical cinema activist Michael Moore. Some have argued that this Oscar should be revoked because his film is actually satire or advocacy and not a true documentary. But "Winged Migration" is an undoubted masterpiece.

TS, an update about battery life...I was on the phone with Sennheiser (their tech support dept is very helpful) and the average battery life on the EVO 100 ENG kit is 6 hours for a standard alkaline battery...they recommend against using rechargeables because play time is much shorter with them. So I guess the Senn Evo is not competitive with the AKG in terms of battery life. They did, however, mention that there is a DC coupler available (to go inplace of the 9V battery) item # DC1, that you can connect to a wall wart to run on mains power. Same outdoor limitations with this as using the Mackie.

Hi Mike,

Sennheiser - that's true. My friend has one. Finding a 9V in an emergency is harder than finding AA or AAA in this country. We found the 9V only lasts about 4 hours under heavy going conditions. 6 hours that the technical support was referring to is probably applicable only to ideal conditions (namely, open doors, or places with straight line to receiver, etc). In a normal environment (indoors, obstacles, etc), the battery goes faster.

TS

<<<--But "Winged Migration" is an undoubted masterpiece.

-->>>

After the recommendation by TS, I rented the movie from Blockbuster. I emailed TS the next day to thank him. It was amazing! I then ordered it from Amazon to have it on hand. I enjoyed the special features as much as the actual film.

B&H advised me that they shipped the MixPre that I ordered. Should have it soon. (And, I won't need an AC cord for it!)

Hi Vic,

True ... true ... PreMix won't need AC adaptor :-). Come to think about it, if you could purchase the 2300 mAh NiMH batteries and its proper charger (get a set of 4 Sanyo's and the charger) - it will last you a lifetime on proper maintenance. Don't bother about alkalines - the recurring costs aren't worth it.

Do let me know what's your opinion of the PreMix when it comes in.

TS

Hey, that's great, Vic. We are hoping for a field report once you get it.

I received the MixPre and used it on a shoot this week. It seems to be a fine device -- built like a tank. I got a charger and some NiMH batteries for the same shoot -- Radio Shack has some "IC cubed" batteries that charge in 15 minutes.

I didn't have any audio that tested the limiter while using my AT-897 on a pole, so I'll have to check that feature on the bench. I also want to experiment running a feed from a house mixer into the mic inputs -- I'll probably need to build a pad for that.

So far, I'm quite pleased with the purchase -- one can never have too many toys in this business!

The sennheiser rep gave me the ew 100 to try for a week.
And I had dropouts in certain situations tested the 500 in the same situations no dropouts. batt life 12 hours.

I am now using XL2 with AKG wireless microphones. Pretty good, especially on 4 channel mixer (Sound Devices). Only gripe with AKG is the batteries ... they use 2 AA and 2 AAA ... grrrr, why don't make it 2 AA for the receiver? Other than that, no problems with dropouts. Got radio diversity antenna as well.

I have ew 100 and the sound is great, however, I had some additional sounds other than grooms voice. The sound is similar to what you would think would happen if you were rotating or adjusting the antenna. Kinda of a phase in and out briefly sound. As if the wireless was not quite on the correct channel. It only last for about 1 maybe 2 seconds.

Is this called dropout?

Hi,

It looks like EW100 is not selective enough. It might have picked out some other radio signals around - interference. I think (just guessing) the EW100 control circuits are not precise enough to lock on the transmitter (connected to the microphone) - thereby giving you this problem.

Does anybody knows if EW100 offers radio signal diversity? If no, then the antenna MUST be have clear line of sight to transmitter, or else, this kind of thing will happen. Something blocked the transmitter momentary, the receiver then takes a "temporary" stronger signal from somewhere else, and then when transmitter signal gets restored, the receiver goes back to normal.

TS