I'm talking about a cheapie dolly like this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=280124&is=REG

Do you acutally need tracks in order to perform a shot where the tripod follows alongside a talent?

Or are tracks reserved for more expensive dollies?

Chris:

You can use track with a variety of dollys, from simple skate wheel setups to the high end pro dollies. However I don't believe you can use track with a three-legged dolly like the one you linked to, and that type is really not that ideal for the type of shot you describe, more to move the camera from place to place without having to pick it up inbetween. It is possible to make a small move with a three wheel version, but only on a very smooth floor and most likely you will see a side-to-side motion in the frame. You need four wheels to prevent this rotation from happening.

Here's (http://www.porta-jib.com/spider_dolly.htm) a simple three wheel dolly that makes excellent tracking shots on inexpensive PVC pipe or their own Flextrack, if the floor is not smooth enough for a rubber wheel dolly.

Chris, don't know how pro/budget you need but I made a dolly for my low/no budget LadyX episode that worked a treat for what we used it for. Used the basic plans from the shadowgirl project.

http://www.shadowgirlproject.com/dolly01.asp

Cost me about NZ$150, which is about US$80ish and you could probably build cheaper if you looked around or scrounged some parts.

The site is in french but translate through google or something. If you want to see it in action, look at Episode 26 of the LadyX series http://www.ladyxfilms.com and look at the last scene at the party. It's about 5:26 into the movie. Of course there is a certain skill required of the grip but I was happy with it's performance for that short.

Cheers
Aaron

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Mueller

Do you acutally need tracks in order to perform a shot where the tripod follows alongside a talent?

Or are tracks reserved for more expensive dollies? -->>>

As Charles mentioned, this type of dolly is best used for moving the camera from shot to shot. However, it is possible to use it for actual dolly shots, with certain limitations. First of all, you must have a very smooth floor. Think the marble floors found in auto showrooms. Second, it is best to have a "dolly grip" to move the tripod/dolly while you concentrate on framing, which can be difficult to do with a small camera's lcd, while avoiding tripping over your own feet. If you must operate the dolly and camera yourself, put one hand on a dolly leg and use the other hand on the pan handle. And remember; wider focal lengths will be more forgiving of any wobbles or shakes.

With a three legged dolly, it is best if you can keep one leg in the lead, with the other two following. This will allow you to steer. Most of these dollies allow you to lock the wheels in place with a pin that has different positions available. For instance, you can lock the lead wheel in line with the dolly leg, and the other two can lock in line with the lead. This would allow for a reasonably straight line dolly move. If you leave the two wheels unlocked, it is easy to steer the dolly. The additional weight of a couple of sand bags might make the rig more stable and eliminate some wobble.

But the very best dolly moves are done on a dolly that allows the camera operator to ride along and control the camera independent of the dolly.

Wayne Orr, SOC

An under $800 alternative is the indie-dolly, offered at b&h:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=287940&is=REG

This can be used with a tripod. Anyone ever tried this out?

The tripod dollies that have locking swivels are designed to do exactly what you want. On smooth surfaces only though.

I have several dollies that have these locks. And they are very handly for reasonably smooth and level surfaces.

You can even run them in U-channel if you need to use track. Angle-iron, held upside down in V-blocks will also work. But the iron (or aluminum) has to be fairly large to keep the wheels in bounds.

Hmmm. It seems as though dollies are expensive. I was just wondering on a general, hypothetical level (though spending a hundred or so on a set of wheels to stick to the bottom of a tripod doesn't seem like too much if it'll allow me to get some steady movements, despite lack of tracks).

Thanks for the info!

Well if you're going to do that I'd suggest take up the idea I mentioned before. Make one that rides on tracks. Simple to make, and cheap and smooth.

Aaron

http://www.longvalleyequip.com/

I bought a super track dolly from this website.... It works incredibly great.... under 600 and can hold a camera opperator, assistant and a crane or jib if you want....

I highly reccomend!

Peter

Aaron, this idea seems to be great! I just ordered two sets of skateboard wheels and some bearings on eBay. I am tired of the not so smooth movements of the wheel-chair! :)

By the way, I know it is not yours, but the shadowgirlproject web site is really well made. Lot of entertaining informations about the production. And it is french, my first language!

Originally posted by Peter Sciretta :
http://www.longvalleyequip.com/

I bought a super track dolly from this website.... It works incredibly great.... under 600 and can hold a camera opperator, assistant and a crane or jib if you want....

I highly reccomend!

Peter
That looks pretty good, but does the rig come with any track at all?

<<<-- Originally posted by Jean-Philippe Archibald : Aaron, this idea seems to be great! I just ordered two sets of skateboard wheels and some bearings on eBay. I am tired of the not so smooth movements of the wheel-chair! :)

By the way, I know it is not yours, but the shadowgirlproject web site is really well made. Lot of entertaining informations about the production. And it is french, my first language! -->>>

A caution here. Skate-board and in-line skate wheel/bearings are designed to accept a load at 90 degrees to the axle. Loads at 45 degrees (placing the wheels on a piece of angle iron so the wheels straddle a pipe-track) will wipe the bearings out fairly fast.

So a better design would be \|/ Three wheels with the center wheel supporting the load and the side wheels guiding along the track.

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Sciretta : http://www.longvalleyequip.com/
-->>>

This looks like a scary proposition. The tracks do not seem to have any cross bracing, like the Matthews product line. Longvalley's stuff appears to use the dolly wheels themselves to keep the tracks parallel.

Also, how well do they work on dirt or asphalt? What's the leveling mechanism?

After watching the making of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (and woman), I can see why dollies are so expensive. Outdoors, they have to perform under very inhospitable conditions.

<<After watching the making of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (and woman), I can see why dollies are so expensive.>>

You ain't kidding. Fisher and Chapman (the two most widely used dolly manufacturers in the US) don't sell their dollies, only lease them to rental houses or production companies, but I have heard that the valuation for insurance hovers around $250,000 per dolly...!

IMHO the indie-dolly product that Marc linked to above is overpriced, especially given the short run of track you're given with it. For half the cost you can get an identical dolly with a non-proprietary track.

Tracking dolly (http://www.promax.com/Products/Detail/6254)

Of course, with a little ingenuity and a couple of days at the machine shop, you can build something like this for probably about $75 in parts.

And let's not forget the old trick of sitting in the trunk of a hatchback that's had some air let out of its tires.

I imagine, Charles, that the extraordinary markup on the higher-end products is a result of their relatively limited market, and not any especially valuable engineering work that's gone into them. A Lexus, vastly more sophisticated than a camera dolly, doesn't cost a quarter of a million dollars.

I wonder if there are any numbers on theft rates on unbuyable film equipment--the dollies you mention, or Panavision packages. Do they send private investigators after film crews that report their equipment "missing"?

I'm sure the insurance companies do!

I've spent time looking hard at dollies (during all those hours sitting on them, the mind wanders occasionally) to try to understand how they can be valued so highly. One must also consider that unlike a Lexus, they are "handmade"...of course the parts are CNC machined, but the units are assembled by hand and there are quite a few moving parts involved plus the hydraulic arm assembly etc. But mostly, yes, it's the limited amount that are made.

The part that surprises me a bit is that unlike motion picture cameras, which run about the same cost, neither Chapman nor Fisher have moved into any onboard electronics. Unlike the Panther, which has programmable moves and an electronically assisted boom function, the other dollies still rely entirely on mechanical functions to operate the boom. Less to go wrong I suppose, but still interesting that it hasn't gone that way.

The long valley track works well in almost any situation...

No the track you can A. Buy yourself at home depot or B buy the track pack. I bought the track pack (25 feet) and it works great... I went back and bought his circle track as well

I can not reccomend his product enough... I looked far and wide and his dolly is the best for under $1000.

That Long Valley rig looks like the best, I like that you can add track cheaply and even buy the kit and build one yourself by adding the wood.

Actually I did use a tripod dolly with tracks, kind of like the Promax idea, using a QuickSet tripod dolly (very rugged, almost unlimited weight capacity). The track was a piece of PVC pipe ripsawn in half (hey, a half-pipe!) with two of the dolly wheels riding in one U-shaped "rail" and the remaining wheel in the other. Spacing was kept by crossties made of 2x4s attached to the bottom of the pipe halves with wallboard screws. Pretty crude, eh? The disadvantage is that it would be kind of tough to make a smooth joint if you wanted a track of over 10 feet in length. I like Longvalley's idea of the "secret compound" --Lemon Pledge!

I didn't know anything about the 24.5" "standard" spacing at the time.

No offense, but the long valley dolly is a waste of money. I took their pictures, bought wheels off ebay (make sure you get the type that turn!), and built my own. No lie, took me approx. 30 mins to assemble from the time I got home from Lowe's hardware. PLUS, my pushbar is built so that more than one person can push, thus making a smoother dolly and if you need to go fast it is easier w. two people. cost me 220 with 10 feet of track, smooth as smooth can be.

Long Valley does however have a good price on their curved track.

Chris,
we have whats called a "doorway dolly" here at our work. It's just like a cart and the tripod sits on it-usually weighted with dirt bags for steadyness.

Sometimes we do get track from the rental house, and we have a set of skates that mount in place of the tires. These are wheels like on inline skates and travel on the tracks smoothly.

If the floor/suface is smooth, it should be okay.

I've worked on shoots spending hours laying down plywood, then the track sections, then having to level and shim all of the joints. Can get tedious.
KISS method where and when you can!

How about one of the monopod-based steadicam units?

all the best,

Jeff Patnaude

Re-opening this thread.

So, what's the hottest dolly kit right now? Long Valley Dolly? Matthews (expensive)? Or home-made versions?

Someone mentioned about using plywood to level out a hilly terrain. They still do this in major motion pictures...and I think The Alamo had one of the longest dolly track setups (however, the scene was cut) at almost half a mile long.

I'm looking into getting a good dolly/track combo and need some help! Thanks!

When the Raimi brothers shot Evil Dead they used what they called the "margarine dolly". All it was was the camera mount on a two by four that was smeared with margarine.

They did some really innovative stuff in Evil Dead especially where camera movement is concerned.

The opening shot of the film involved the camera man sitting in an inflatable raft and being pushed through a shallow swamp.

Take a look at this wagon kit and see if it gives you any ideas . .

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=427456&categoryId=119

I hope I'm not hated on my first post, and I assure you I'm only posting this as simply another camera dolly alternative (since we're on the subject). It is my company, I'm not a spammer, and I gladly invite any questions...

www.glideshot.com/products.htm

Mike

The link needed a .htm. I added it below.

http://www.glideshot.com/products.htm

Hey Mike nice prices and setups. I'll contact you later as I am busy right now editing some video:)

Thanks for the correction Phillip.

Hey Nick, thanks for the compliment, you can catch me any time you want.

I have a question regarding your product. Will it help me fight off a dog?

Hey Keith, depends on how large the dog is...we only rate our stuff at beagle or smaller...

Mike: is this with flexible track or?

Hey Rob, we don't use flexible track, although you certainly could. Ours is schedule 40 aluminum.