I have doubt about how DVX100 's Gamma adjustment works. I saw its works and the result is impressive, mostly on the "boost up on dark area" for its cine-gamma mode.

When reading GL2 (XM2), it talks about adjustable Colour-Gain, Colour-Phase, Sharpness and Black-Level Adjustments. To combine all the above, can I get the result similar to that gamma adjustment of DVX100 (especially the black-level adjustment)?

Hoping to hear from any experts or experience users on it. Thanks!

No, the DVX100's gamma adjustments are quite different from the GL2's imaging adjustments.

That aside, however, use of the GL2's adjustments do enable a skilled camera operator to shoot some very compelling imagery under controlled conditions.

Thanks Ken. How do you rate the 'film look' in GL2's pictures? I did some research on the pictures shot by GL2 and DVX100, and they are quite different! GL2's result seems very sharp and video-like, and DVX100's are sharp and smooth ( actually, quite similar to that of VX2000/PD150 ?)

The thing is, GL2 has a perfect price tag for me, DVX100 is a bit too high, sadly VX2k/PD150 are out of the market in my country (malaysia/singapore)! Can't find them selling anywhere! I was hoping to get cheap price on them since the VX2100/PD170 will be out very soon. As a result, I was hoping that GL2 can produce "good enough" picture (as use for indie drama filmmaking). I don't mind to do lots of adjustment only if it's possible to be adjusted.

Question: GL2's zoom area is 4.2-84 mm, and DVX100 is 4.5-45mm. Does GL2 has a even better wide-angle (4.2 vs 4.5) then DVX100?

you may go SIM LIM Square to try and compare by yourself. you can find most prosumer camcorder there.(eg.DVX100,PD150,XL1/S)

Certainly the DVX100 has distinctive features such as Cine gamma and 24fps along with "true" progressive frames.

But care and practice with the GL2 will certainly produce excellent results. I prefer to turn the GL2's sharpness down by 1 or 2 clicks and underexpose scenes by just a touch on most scenes.

The DVX100 has a wider lens than the GL2 but a shorter zoom. Adding a good wide angle adapter to the GL2, such as the WD-58, will compensate for that difference reasonably well.

<<<-- Originally posted by Kaifoong Kok : Does GL2 has a even better wide-angle (4.2 vs 4.5) then DVX100? -->>>

No, because the GL2's chips are smaller, so they see less of the image from the lens. 4.5 on the DVX100 (with its 1/3" chips) is significantly wider than 4.2 on the GL2 (with its 1/4" chips). The DVX will have about a 30% wider field of view than the GL2.

Just to follow up on Barry's post, Panasonic itentionally gave the DVX100 a nice, wide field of view. In fact, I believe it's the widest yet available in its class. Another smart move by Panasonic... the DVX is one very nicely conceived camera.

Thanks guys for your informative responses :) I read a reply from another forum saying that we can actually use Magic Bullet to do gamma correction (as well as 24p) in post; I was wondering can that produce the same result as in DVX100?

Also, I read an article saying the depth of field that dVX100 gave is smaller (very useful feature for me) as compare to PD150 etc. because of its larger diameter (72mm vs. 58mm) lens. But we can change this after putting in an adapter (such as wide lens) on to the GL2 or PD150 right?

"I was wondering can that produce the same result as in DVX100?"

No, not by a long shot. It'll produce something somewhat similar, but it won't be the same. Doing it in-camera is vastly superior to trying to do it in post. The DVX100 in progressive mode is much higher resolution than either the Canon or Sony, and using Magic Bullet causes a *decrease* in resolution as fields are blended together. So the end result, using Magic Bullet, will be filmish footage, but the DVX will be substantially sharper.

As for gamma correction, etc. -- you can do some correction in post, but the DVX lets you correct for it as you're shooting -- so the DSP handles highlight adjustment or black stretch, and you get much better results that way. Finally, doing it in post means you'll encounter at least one recompression cycle, which will further lower quality.

The best way to go is in-camera if at all possible -- but if you have to do it with a PD150, Magic Bullet, and post color-correction, it's still possible to achieve very nice results. Not the SAME, like you asked, but still very nice.

"because of its larger diameter (72mm vs. 58mm) lens."

No, diameter has nothing to do with it. The PD150 can give a shallower depth of field because its lens is more telephoto (72mm vs. 45mm). At focal lengths of 45mm or below, the PD150 and DVX deliver identical depth of field, but the PD150 lens is more telephoto so it can deliver shallower DOF.

"But we can change this after putting in an adapter (such as wide lens) on to the GL2 or PD150 right?"

Adding a wide-angle adapter to the other cameras will give you a similar field of view, and similar DOF characteristics, as the DVX100 at those focal lengths.

"I read an article saying the depth of field that dVX100 gave is smaller"
the answer is YES and NO.

Yes, if you are saying to get the same subject size from same distant. according to the fomula:

DOF = Df - Dn
Df = hs / (h - (s-f))
Dn = hs/ (h + (s-f))
h = (f*f)/Ac

A = Aperture, S = Subject Distant, f = focus length, c = circle of confusion

so, if PD150 user want to put the same size of subject inside frame, they can't maintain the same focus length or distant as DVX100. this is the reason why many people say DVX100's 72mm lens can get better DOF than PD150's 58mm

-------------

No, as Barry Green mentioned.

btw, are you refer to DVWorld's review?

Thanks Barry and Ho!


And yes Ho, the test report from DVWorld :) Regarding the formula, where is the 72mm filter diameter lens sits in? was it c ?

I found that your are from Malaysia too? KL? Are you in the film/video industry? Do you happen to know where in KL/PJ area that I can find prosumer/professional video equipments? I just find them around the city but it's like 1 panny at sungai wang and 1 xm2 at megamall etc. And beside that, can't expect accessaries or helps from those salesman in cunsumer based stores, I tried to ask them questions and they can't answer me. And also their price is often "too high". Singapore has a petty good price but just worry about the warrenty and custom tax problem. Any suggestion? The models in mind now: xm2, pdx10, vx2000/2100, pd150/170, dvx100.

Recompression cycle? Are you saying that if I took freshly-captured video, dropped it in premier, and exported it again the resolution would degrade? How is that? I'm not using any compressions like Cinepak or Video for windows....

hi Kaifoong,
nice to meet you. i am a 100% end user from JB. :)
i bought my pd150 from s'pore. this is because the prosumer model is a bit expensive in m'sia. only consumer model is cheaper in m'sia (eg:vx2000, trv950), at least in JB.

you better try and check the detail in sim lim square(s'pore). most products are available there (incl. xm2, pdx10, vx2000, pd150/170, dvx100,dv301,xl1/s,dv5000,250,370,570W...).
it is good to test the camcorder before you buy.

i suggest you to wait for the dvx100A if possible. this model has big improvement compared to "ebay flooded model"(just kidding) DVX100.

please do contact us if you are willing to visit to simlim~ :)

the formula itself doesn't involved the lens diameter but the point is the subject distant and focus length. from the reading in the link below, you may able to catch what i mean. :)

http://www.dvworld.com.tw/product/DVX100_test/part4/dvx100_vs_lens.jpg

<<<-- Originally posted by Corey Sturmer : Recompression cycle? Are you saying that if I took freshly-captured video, dropped it in premier, and exported it again the resolution would degrade? -->>>

No -- if you do what you just said, there will be no recompression.

The question was in regards to gamma correction in post. If you do color correction or gamma correction, the NLE will uncompress the footage and then apply the effect. Then to get it back out to tape it will have to recompress it, using the DV codec.

<<<-- Originally posted by Ho Chee Woe : hi Kaifoong,
http://www.dvworld.com.tw/product/DVX100_test/part4/dvx100_vs_lens.jpg -->>>

Yes Ho, that's exactly the site i went through :) So, PD150 really can't deliver that "look" from DVX100?

When did you buy your PD150 from Singapore? Any custom/tax problem? So you are getting the warrenty of singapore for the camera? I did when to sim lim before and there's a salesman told me "if I bought the camera back to use in malaysia, he can give me a lower price", but he didn't say why. Do you have any idea what's it about?

Ya, I've read articles about DVX100A and get quite excited too, especially the improvement in its progressive mode. But people are having quite some trouble in editing 24p footage while using software that haven't yet support it (such as Premier). PAL model is 25p right? I hope it's more compatible with NLE?

i bought my PD150 last year. i throw away the box and just carried all stuff back to jb. so far i don't encounter any problem for travelling between m'sia and s'pore with my PD150. :)

as the salesrep told you, it is cheaper if you buy camcorder in s'pore and use it in m'sia. bcoz it is considered export model, means no warranty is covered (about SGD200 different). you also can claim back the GST if you leave s'pore by air.

actually the big improvement for DVX100A is the 12bit A/D and the new processor. so far only JVC DV300/301 equips with 12bit A/D in prosumer product beside the AGDVX100A and coming soon AGDVC30. it can produce wider dynamic range than a 8 bit A/D. (12bit = 4096 level, 8 bit = 256level)

Ah, 12 bit A/D is broadcast quality! This suppose to be a really big feature but the strange thing is, this feature never appear in their highlights list of new feature...i wonder why (same to the reviewer from camcorderinfo.com!) Another strange thing is, it stated 11x zoom in all their promotional articles but not their specs in panasonic jp website! (the website still saying 10x zoom).

Man, I am very interested to know its street price! Please come faster!

the 12bit A/D was highlighted in panasonic.jp website.
http://panasonic.biz/sav/camera/ag-dvx100a/ag-dvx100a.html

regarding the zoom factor, personally i think it will be 10x.

anyway this is a great prosumer camcorder. hopefully the pal version can be released a.s.a.p. :)

Ho, Thanks for the web link :)

VX2100 is selling now in KL for a street price of around RM9-10k. It "looks" like a PD150 from the outside!