Professional:[list=1] engaged in an activity as a means of livelihood or for gain of, connected with, or engaged in a profession a person who belongs to one of the professions, as law a person who earns his or her living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs a person who is expert at his or her work[/list=1]From, The Random House Dictionary

I would assume then that going with "Number 1," a professional cam is cam that can be used for an activity (shooting) for livelihood or for gain. That would make my 5 year old JVC 1-chip, GR-DVL9500 cams, my friend's TRV720, Yow's MX350 and Terrence's MX300, professional cams. And I'm sure the list goes on. (Just to clear up the over use and confusion about the meaning of the word, "professional," and the term, "professional cam.") So if you shoot with a Canon ZR20, and have the footage dumped to a VHS tape, or transfered to 35mm motion film, and this activity is your means of livelihood or for gain, then the Canon ZR20 is a professional camcorder! :-)

Professional...the new extreme. Can't wait to see the new Gillete Triple Blade Professional.

its not what you use its HOW you use it ;)

No. A professional using a piece of equipment does not necessarily make the equipment professional. If a professional wouldn't normally use such equipment, then it's not a professional piece of gear.

It's a question that will come up more often as the technology evolves. A GS100k in my hands is definitely not a professional piece of equipment. But at a recent event for an organization to which I belong, one of my acquaintances, who is both an author and documentary maker, was very interested in my cam - for professional purposes. If he were to buy one and use it in his work, I wonder if people would express surprise that he used such an "unprofessional" camcorder or just express surprise over how small professional equipment is these days.

I would say, "Look what that professional did with that unprofessional equipment." Hi8 didn't become professional standard motion picture equipment for theatrical production just because it was used in Blair Witch.

Hmm. But that doesn't mean an Arri16 isn't professional if it is used for theatre.

Watercolors are used by kindergardners but also professional artists. But their watercolors are much higher quality.

Therefore, there much be a correlation between the quality level of the output vs the quality of the product. Possibly a correlation in the difficulty in producing that output.

If a professional manages to create a 35mm theatrical release from a VHS camera, that doesn't make the camera professional. Change that to a CineAlta camera, the quality goes up but so does the difficulty.

And what if there is no spoon? Why do you continue to persevere, love and strive when in the end you will only die?

Frank, what have you done?

"Frank, what have you done?"

Just quoted the dictionary. :-)

Equipment can't replace vision and talent. No question there. A CineAlta in my hands would not make me a professional. But many with talent who could not realize their vision before because of the equipment issue can now do so because of the changes in technology - and drops in price point. It seems possible that at some point it will not be very clear what is professional and what isn't. There may still be distinctions made re what is costly or more difficult (though possibly the right word is "flexible" or "enabling") to operate, and I think there will always be distinctions about whether there is talent - and to what degree - behind the end product, but the distinctions about the equipment somehow substantiating one's claim to being a professional may very much blur.

A "CineAlta" is perhaps considered more "professional" than a PV-DV953 or GS100 because it costs more and is meant for different uses than say shooting "professional" instructional videos with a PV-DV953 or GS100 (for livelihood or for gain). :-)

One must look logically at this. :-)

If a cam is used professionally, then it must be a professional cam.

If a police officer uses a horse instead of a car, he is still a police officer.

If a $50 tripod is used professionally, it must therefore be a professional tripod.

Now for the flip side of the coin. :-)

A shooter with a $20,000 professional cam who doesn't use it for livelihood or for gain, must not be a professional then. However, does this mean that a professional cam is really not a professional cam if it is not used for livelihood or for gain? Perhaps someone can answer this. Chris?

Here's another quotation/definition I like:
"A professional is an amateur who didn¡¯t quit" - Richard Bach

... of course you can also argue that a professional knows when to quit ...

A true professional wouldn't waste time speculating on the word professional, they would just get out there and shoot and leave the speculating to the amateurs.

I was trying to find a way to say that.

I posted that because the word "professional" is being over-used/misunderstood in the MX Forum. Perhaps I should have attached Bill Pryor's disclaimer at the end of the post. :-)

It was said of Picasso that he could paint a stroke on a canvas and charge a lot for it when ask why it was not the stroke it was that little signature on the bottom of the painting.

But he was also some painter, "professional," you might say. :-)

I met one of his students once, back in the 70's. He was a Canadian Inuit.

"Professional" describes the trade/r and not the tool.

He was a famous Inuit artist who had studied under Picasso. I can't recall his name at the moment. I also studied art and one of the fellow students was Jackson Beardy (don't know if that's spelled right). He was very quiet, long long hair, and became famous as a native artist. His teacher, and mine, was Steve Repa. But I beleve that later, Jackson also studied with another famous artist named George Morisetie (that's not spelled right either). I met George in the early 80's in Downtown Vancouver.

I might have already posted this elsewhere on the DVinfo.net Community, but my favorite definition of a professional is "someone who can deliver good work on a bad day."

Gear is less material to professionalism than competence and attitude. Yesterday's professional equipment is today's child's toy.

When it comes to video equipment, the word professional usually signifies an expectation of better reliability and durability over a greater range of operating conditions.

Many years ago, In an attempt to define a standard for who qualifies as a professional photographer, some organization (I don’t remember who), decided “a professional is anyone who produces at least of 50% of their total income from taking pictures”. It did not state anything about equipment.

Steve

...some organization...decided "a professional is anyone who produces at least of 50% of their total income from taking pictures."My take on professional is, using the right tool for the right job; the end product result should be more than acceptable in terms of quality; getting paid for the job or being appreciated for the job. The last wedding I went to had 2 clowns claiming to be professionals. I could see right away that the photo guy had the wrong tool/s, including the film and film format, and did not have even a clue what he was doing. The video guy had the right cam, but that's the only thing right about his skills. Both got paid big bucks, by the way. But the bride and groom both wanted blood. But stupid them, they signed a contract and paid most of the money up front. My wife is so p*ssed at the bride because the bride was so ingrateful about her setting up the reception hall, and making everything work. All my wife keeps saying is, after she saw the video and pictures, is imitating what the bride keeps saying: "Me hire prOOOfessional for prOOOfessional pictOOORs because dey go to my country and his country." What a laugh---er, I mean sad. :-)

So, even though these 2 guys are hired as professionals on a regular basis by unsuspecting suckers, I don't think the title of "professional" applies.

I thought my last post was funny. :-(

Well, I guess I am neither a professional photographer nor videographer cuz I only get about 40% of my income from each. :-)

(the rest being print-oriented pieces and miscellaneous A/V projects)

Oh well, my paycheck doesn't seem to bounce anyway.

Lately, I've been sleeping more than shooting, or anything else for that matter. So videography is more of a pipe dream at this time than a professional pursuit. :-)

You have to love Vancouver's rainy season.

Sleep……..what’s that? I heard about it once, then I chose to become an imaging professional. Haven’t ever slept since, either because I have too much work or not enough. They both have the same effect.

Mike,
Any Machinist Mate with a S400, 10D, digital video camera, a/v experience, JBL cabinets for monitors in a 10’x10’ office, and knows what “show blacks” are is a professional in my book…..oh yea, you have a tractor too. If I need a shooter in your area I’m calling you. Just bring the liquor.

Steve

Hey Steve,

Bringin' the booze, that's the easy part. :-) Even to PHX.

Wow, not only do you read my posts, you remember them! Scary! Just one detail, the JBLs are at home, cuz there's only room for the KEFs at work. :-)

Now I just need to figure out how to integrate the tractor into my multimedia biz so I can write it off on my taxes!

BTW, your website struck a responsive chord with me; so many hotel A/V departments just don't "get it" when it comes to corp events (speaking of not sleeping)!

Thanks for the shout-out, major props right back at ya.

I know a LOT of professionals who would argue the Webster's definition about making a living from their work. Many of these people make more money waiting tables to pay their bills in between acting gigs, and would take great offense to webster's rather narrow definition.

I would prefer to think that a professional is anyone who has a passion for their work, and demonstrates that passion in the quality of the delivered product that exceeds ordinary standards.

Mike,

Mount one of those $69.00 wireless X10 video cameras to the front of your tractor and it becomes your businesses mobile video security device. The IRS wont bat an eye. Very professional.

Steve

So this mean a band-aid is a professional medical tool in my hands and a professional betacam in my hands means I would be utterly confused.

Paging Doctor Rosen, stat! :-)

Steve, how about I use the backhoe arm as a camera jib?? heehee!

Frank,

Great thread you have here. I would offer that professionals do not exist, at least that's what I think. I am not a professional, nor is anyone else. I think every person is made to do something, and if they are lucky enough to find out what that is, and actually do it, then they are more likely to excel in life and business. This is very subjective and I don't think anyone but yourself (if you can be really honest with yourself) can really know. I would feel guilty calling myself a professional anything. My brother is a lawyer, a professional in the business world, but I don't say he is a professional lawyer. He is simply a lawyer. I am a teacher. Some of us do the same things as others, yet know more about it than someone else. There will always and forever be someone in the world that knows more or different stuff than you do, thereby negating professional. Same goes for camcorders or equipment. Some equipment "knows" more than other equipment. That's my take.

Clay

Mike - I would answer the page if I could figure out my professional "looking" phone!

=)

J., I agree. But I believe calling oneself a professional in something more or less means you that are on par or better than other "professionals" in that area. So, I can at least claim that I am a professional in 1 area, but it's not in videography or even photography. However, I have met a number of professional videographers which, I think, don't amount to much, and once they're delivered their goods, they have to run---these types also have to rely on contracts, so that they get paid. :-))

J.

You teach philosophy by any chance?

Steve

Steven,

No philosophy, just music! Philosophy equals time to think, which I have had way too much of lately...

Frank,

In my utopian world of business, professionals would not exist. But, I realize in the real world we must label those (and ourselves) in order to better our business and self-image. If you say you are a professional or you tell others so, then you form a concept and a reputation that you have to live up to or try to. Time and ego then come into play. Time - (my thinking only) - the more you do something, the better you become at it and the more informed you are. Again, I realize that this is not always the case, but the odds are (talent excluded) in favor of one getting better at something the more they do it. Ego - many people can convince others who are vulerable to believe that they are professional and will willingly accept and believe it to be true, many times due to being completely void of knowledge. It is a very powerful thing. By this thinking, Time+Ego=Professional. If you are talented, then you can reduce time and increase ego. For some, Ego=Professional. I may be forgetting something in this equation, and please feel free to respond with your own variations! ...what was I saying...too much time on my hands...

Clay...

one trait that seems to be quite peculiar to professionals is that they're quite self -serving

ROFL

I would simplify "professional" to be a title for a producer of a product that a customer is willing to pay for. Thus, "professional" is not a reflection of the quality of the product.

>My brother is a lawyer, a professional in the business world, but >I don't say he is a professional lawyer. He is simply a lawyer.

A lawyer receiving specific compensation for his efforts as a lawyer would be a professional lawyer. Contemporary reductionists accept the shortened title of "lawyer", but the "professional" part is implied.

>I think every person is made to do something

How about sit idle and reap the fruits of the labors of others?

<<<-- Originally posted by Gints Klimanis : I would simplify "professional" to be a title for a producer of a product that a customer is willing to pay for. Thus, "professional" is not a reflection of the quality of the product.

Gints,

Great observation! I agree, however in broad terms that makes the majority of people in the world a professional. By that, you are saying the line worker in china is a professional because the are producing a product. In work, I think we all are producers of something.

<<<-- Contemporary reductionists accept the shortened title of "lawyer", but the "professional" part is implied. -->>>

Why?

<<<-- I think every person is made to do something

How about sit idle and reap the fruits of the labors of others? -->>>

It takes all kinds. Unfortunately, this is downside to my statement because there are those that indeed do this. Without getting into a very lengthy and existential discussion, I will just say that these people you refer to probably think they are professionals.

Clay

J., I don't go around telling people I'm a professional in something, I just mentioned it once here. 3 threads up I believe. I have the "papers" for other things, though I don't view myself as a professional in those areas. :-))

On another note, I just had a coffee with a buddy, who works as a professional. He was 100 feet up with some lighting, listening to the short band for the explosion countdown. Then, KA-BOOM!! the farm house blew up and he got his ears blown out and the wind sucked out of him (bruised a rib). Pro pay for this? Just under $700 Canadian (few hours of work for loss of hearing). Whoever was in charge of the Smallville set forgot to radio him with the warning. :-))

Catwoman is being shot here, should be a good one. ;-))

Frank,

Please call me Clay, as my friends do! I am sorry to hear about your professional friend. Sometimes I guess it just sucks to be a professional and also takes a lot of risk as well. (I'll add that to the equation!)

As for professionals, I think you are one of many professionals here, Mr. Wrangler sir! Sorry to get so philoshophical and serious, it's all in the fun of it!

Catwoman...can't wait! Have you been to the set...I'll bet there are lots of professionals there! Be careful.

Clay...

Clay, I don't make a point of visiting sets, unless I happen to walk buy one---they're everywhere here, even in my neighbourhood---like on my street sometimes, and even next door. The movie, "the Grocer's Wife" was shot next door. If you call me "Mr Wranger" again, you're going to get it. Kidding. :-))

I don't know how to spell her name, Holly Barrie? She plays Catwomen.

How in the world did you score a house in the middle of a studio set? Cheap rent? I'm sure with conditions of coming and going when the "professionals" tell you to!?! :)

You can teach technique but you can not teach talent.

Steve

I wopuld be inclined to take Bill Raven's excellent statement: "... a professional is anyone who has a passion for their work, and demonstrates that passion in the quality of the delivered product that exceeds ordinary standards..." and add, "...and gets paid for it."

"How in the world did you score a house in the middle of a studio set?"

They film like crazy all over the place here in Vancouver.

"Cheap rent?"

Nope. $820+ per month for my little hole near Kits Beach; and that's cheap for these parts.

consider yourself blessed, Frank. Here in Santa Fe, a small house goes for over $2000/month. Local talent has to do a lot of service work to support their real passion. Such is the life of an artist, I guess.

So, perhaps there is a noteable distinction between "artist" and "professional". In my observations, a professional will do anything for money. An artist responds to higher moral values, which I will not debate, here.

Artists have been know to work for the love of the work, and put making the almighty dollar second. If this is the case, call me artist, not professional.

<<<--Artists have been know to work for the love of the work, and put making the almighty dollar second. If this is the case, call me artist, not professional-->>>

I'll second that! However, combine the best of it all and why not be a passionate artistic professional, or PAP for short! Passionate because you love what you do and dedicate yourself to it; Artistic because you have the talent and knowledge to manipulate your form of expression; Professional because you get paid for it. PAP, the highest form of professionalism????

Clay

by Jove, Clay, you may be onto something there...:)
Feliz Navidad to one and all.

I don't know how to spell her name, Holly Barrie? She plays Catwomen.

Halle Berry. Only the most gorgeous lady ever to grace a movie screen, imho.



..take Bill Raven's excellent statement: "... a professional is anyone who has a passion for their work, and demonstrates that passion in the quality of the delivered product that exceeds ordinary standards..." and add, "...and gets paid for it."

Good point, Chris, otherwise you'd have to include collegiate athletes (some of whom get paid very big dollars after they are done with school) and many of the Olympic athletes, plus volunteer firefighters, for example.

Funny, it's actually easier to define the meaning of "unprofessional" isn't it? Which none of us wants to be.

And hey, feliz navidad and happy Hanukkah, y'all.