I know there are lots of rumors, wish lists, and release dates circulating about the XL2. But are there any glimpse of practical information on this new cam? Any links?

So far, all I got from possible specs on the new XL2 are: 24p, 30p, true 16:9, possible HDV, and manual iris. With a release date by end of 2003. Is all this hype and wishful thinking?

Not sure who told you that the release date is the end of 2003,,, we have been told repeatedly by Canon to state that the XL2 will not be released until after NAB 2004.

- don

<<<-- Originally posted by Frederic Segard :
So far, all I got from possible specs on the new XL2 are: 24p, 30p, true 16:9, possible HDV, and manual iris. With a release date by end of 2003. Is all this hype and wishful thinking? -->>>

I think that's a best case scenario that it would include all of the above.

Plus what Don says about NAB 2004

Yeah, after NAB is a better bet.

The rumors of its release I think are rooted in the XL-1S rebate program. Some people have extrapolated that the XL-2 would after the program is over: there is no hard information yet that is true.

If the XL-2 is going to be released next year, start watching for features rumors to start in the first quarter of next year. At this stage anyone who knows the skinny have signed ironclad NDAs (Non Disclosure Agreements) and ain't a gonna say...

I hope Canon doesn't wait for the NAB convention to release the XL2.

A better place would be a WEVA-like conference.

Little more than a handful of broadcasters probably actually use XL series cameras. The main market for this camera is prosumers, independent video/film people, and wedding/ event/ corporate videographers, as far as I can tell.

The same goes for Final Cut Pro. Apple announced and demo'd FCP 4 at NAB this year, while only a little more than a handful of broadcasters use the product.

I hope I'm wrong about the above though, because I'm a senior broadcast journalism student compiling my resume tape by producing, shooting and reporting with my XL1-s, and editing the resulting news packages with Final Cut Pro.

Actually NAB is THE place to release the XL2. The first year the XL1 was released you had to stand 30 people deep just to catch a glimpse of it.

When the XL1-S was released you could walk right up the camera at NAB, pick it up, and walk around the show floor with it as no one really seemed to care. I think the general consensus was... oh they just fixed a few things... big whoop.

I think when the XL2 is released there will be a mob at the NAB booth.

Interestingly, I have my reservations about NAB 2004. I would think Canon would try to get as many sales of the XL1s done before introing a new unit. Sony has done this with the PD-150 - they waited forever before releasing an update in the disappointing PD-170... :(

Of course this is Canon who seem to release new cameras as soon as the can. (can anyone say ZR line?)

Just my 2 cents.

Let's just say that Canon knows exactly what they are doing ;-)

- don

that for those of us who decide to upgrade to the XL2 at some point are not left with xl series items like 3x and 16x manual lens among others that wont work on the new cam......

M

I'm interested to see from those people who are more in the know about Canon, think they'll fair with any new camera they release. I've known more than one company (Anyone remember Commodore ;) ) that just couldn't keep up and failed to realise what to do with a potentially amazing product. The XL1 series is a fine camera, we all know this, but the DVX100 has been out for a long time now, so do you guys think that what Canon will bring out will be a new leap ahead, or will we in NAB just see the new DVX version which will again put Canon on the back foot?

I always like companies that jump ahead of the rest and take a risk, that's why I'm impressed with Panasonic taking the leap and bringing out a truly cool camera.

Any thoughts? And no I'm not specifically asking for what features it will have or when it will come out ;)

Aaron

I'm definately not in the know about anything canon, but I'm sure they think mighty highly of themselves with the success of the XL1.

With this "attitude" I think they will do anything they want - including keeping the prices outrageously high for a camera that should be about $1000-$1500 less than they currently sell it for (Microcenter still has it for $4500).

I would hope they do something revolutionary, but...

Sundance 2005 as the XL2 goal

I think that press about Sundance this year will be all about movies made with the dvx100 giving it even more hype, as the pd150 kinda got with tadpole/personal velocity last year.

If the XL2 features include native 16x9 & 24P & hi def plus the ability to switch lenses, indy films would probably dominate Sundance in 2005.

Maybe they could even give 2 prototypes to Robert Rodriquez & he can create a prequel to the mariachi movies & include the 10 min film school as a promo for potential XL2 buyers :)

>>>>With this "attitude" I think they will do anything they want - including keeping the prices outrageously high for a camera that should be about $1000-$1500 less than they currently sell it for (Microcenter still has it for $4500).

- I doubt anyone is going to buy an XL1S from MicroCenter for full retail when most people are picking them up for street prices ranging around $3600 or so. Don't forget about the nice $500 rebate. That is not expensive when you consider what it allows you to do - and that if you are charging for your services, it basically pays for itself on the 2nd or third job... mine has easily paid for itself several times over at this point.

>>>>I would hope they do something revolutionary, but...

- With all of the money Canon has been consistently investing into R&D for the past few years (Canon is pretty much the only camera manufacturer that invests close to 10% of their yearly profits into R&D), it will most likely be evolutionary.

- don

Echoing what Aaron said...

With all of the "hype" and speculation about an XL2 (if they even call it that), I think other camera upgrades have been forgotten. What if Panasonic does release the next DVX before the XL2? What then????

just some thoughts...

If the XL2 comes out with some form of HD (I doubt it will be the full HD the big boy$ have) is what kind of HD it will have.

If you want to spectulate on what the XL-2 will have, keep in mind that the target will be the price: what can Canon cram into a $4,500 cam.

Now if Canon could put in a 1/2" 16:9 CCD that would be a show stopper. And how about 12-bit or higher A/D converter. And an auto-knee to limit blown out whites.

All of this could be done for $4,500. The 1/2" 16:9 CCD would allow an impressive wide angle. (Just used a 4.5mm Canon lens on an 2/3" SDX-900 and it was over twice as wide as a DVX100).

Here's what I think. Canon was limited in the past because it was not really a consumer electronics manufacturer like Sony or Matsushita. It made optical products, office products, broadcast lenses, etc. Until now it does not make its own CCDs but it is starting to make CMOS sensors. These are less expensive to manufacture than CCDs so bigger size chips could be used without increasing cost of the camcorder. Bigger chips mean shallower depth of field and more artistically looking image.

Canon is a memeber of the HDV consortium. HD Blu-Ray DVD format, developed basically by Sony, is available to Canon.

Japan nearly completed conversion to digital broadcast. They have broadcasted HD for many years, but in an analog form. The profit margins on SD equipment are slim to none. Matsushita, Toshiba, and Sony are quitting making CRTs in Japan as of next year. They'll only be making flat screens -- HD screens -- there. There will be a strong push into HD, because of profits.

The new Canon camcorder, unveiled at next NAB will be HD, or HD/SD switchable. The change Sony made on their PD170 was minimal, to counteract the DVX. The real new model will be HD and I believe that it too will be announced at NAB; a consumer version will probably be announced at next CES.

Both HDV and Blu-Ray have a potenial to achieve quality that is close to that of Varicam. Varicam footage, after downconverted to 24p, is only 40 Mbps. Blu-Ray and to some extent HDV, with its more efficient MPEG2 compression, can match Varicam quality at a lower transfer rate.

If Canon develops high quality MPEG2 processors for their camcorder, and it certainly is capable of doing so, or it may combine its resources with another company, and if it puts up quality camera head on its camcorder, we'll have Varicam or near Varicam quality camera, less the slow motion capability, for a samll fraction of Varicam price. Lenses will be superb and we may even see variations of this model in the future with larger CMOS sensors that would allow mounting of Canon and other 2/3" HD lenses. I think that Panasonic will introduce at NAB a camera to compete with CinaAlta SR. They know that their Varicam will in not too far from now become dated.

By moving into quality HD camera production, Canon will be able to make a lot of profit in selling HD lenses, aldhough most of them would be a lot less expensive than their current HD lenses.

So quality affordable independent filmmaking will become reality at NAB 2004. That is my opinion. Other manufacturers are aware of the demand of low cost HD gear. Pror to this only Sony and Panasonic had recorders for HD camcorders. Now both HDV and Blu-ray DVD recorders will become available inexpensively also to Ikegami, Hitachi, Sharp, Thomson, and others. They'll all be competing for the semi-pro and pro market. Maybe even Samsung will. That will mean high quality cinema tools soon, at affordable prices.

HDV also has transfer rate of 25 Mbps at 1080i at 1440x1280 pixels (same as CineAlta tape recording) Naturally CineAlta has a lot higher transfer rate, but 1080i broadcast is 19 Mbps. Because of the digital transparency, the HDV camera would be good enough to create HDTV content. The current JVC HDV camera naturally has too many defficiencies to be used professionally for anything. That is my opinion. The new Canon should change all that.

Basically the new low cost HD cameras will be good enough to produce anything, from a movie to be projected, digitally preferably, to a big screen, do HDTV contennt, to wedding videos in both HD and SD forms.

And what is Canon's incentive to obsletize all of its expensive gear for all but the richest production studios? The last thing they want is for TV broadcasters, mid-budget indy filmmakers, and the like to use a $3500 camera instead of a $50,000 one.

That's why I think the prosumers will forever remain crippled.

A little *OT* but can someone fill me in on why people would be happy with something like MPG2 compression with their footage when it's more lossy than DV. I hate the fact I have lossy DV even ;)

Does the HDV format allow other compression formats like DV?


Cheers
Aaron

Apparently not, though with the extra resolution I think it doesn't quite matter that much. Look, even HD shown on television is lossy MPEG-II. It's not so much the type of compression but the quality. A 4 Mbps DVD compressed using Canopus will look way better than an 8 Mbps DVD compressed with MainConcept, I think. Maybe that's a little extreme but you get the idea.

I wish there was a DV-like HD format, but apparently the bandwidth would be too high for current DV tapes, and everyone's goal seems to be to keep that old technology. Why I don't really know.

So why was Christopher disabled? Did he spill the beans?

Don't you think his post would have been deleted then?

... some time ago I came across the
following article:

"Canon says XL1S replacement will likely include 24 frames progressive video"

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/canon_xl1s_replacement_04_07_03.htm

"good things come to those who wait" - I will definitly be among those who resist the temptation buying an XL1s right now,
and wait for things to come.

Best regards,


Sebastian

Sebastian

The person interviewed for that article was seriously misquoted. I know because I was there at the time. If I were you, I would carefully consider the source concerning any such "news" item. The information on this site, dvinfo.net. will be much more accurate and much closer to legitimate sources.

There are a few different reasons why someone's account here has been disabled, but I won't discuss specifics -- except to say that in this case, it had nothing to do whatsoever with the content of the post. The content in his post is not at all accurate, reliable, or factual. Reasons why an account might be disabled may include the use of a false name and/or failure to provide a legitimate email address. Hope this helps,