I noticed on some other JVC cams (JVC GY DV5000) that there are hidden service menues to allow control of a great many things. These are activated by holding down certain keys while powering up the camera.
I'll bet there are similar menus in the JVC HD cameras.
I don't own one yet, but if I did, I would try a bunch of stuff while powering it on to see if I can find it.
JVC GY DV5000 has all kinds of stuff in there.
Lets hope that the HD cams have some stuff too.
Let the search begin!
-Les

ps: I'll trade 40 running min of 16/35mm 2K film scanning for one of these JVC cameras! No Kidding!

Interesting!

Check this out regarding hidden menus on JVC cameras:

http://www.abcdv.com/article/articleview/78/1/74/

http://www.abcdv.com/article/articleview/169/1/74/

http://www.offworld.com/dv500/troubleshooting.html#firmware

I'll bet the JVC HD cam has one lurking somewhere too. People should try powering up with all sorts of key combo's held down, it isn't that many possibilities and the rewards might be adjusting the ccd gain, and turning off/down the edge enhance on the HD1.
Who knows what else!

Who will be the first to find it? ;)

-Les

Whoaaa.... That is very interresting and... well... unexpected. If we could only find a way to control both the shutter and iris... This would be... Goooooood.

I been thinking all along JVC could fix some of our issues with a firmware change. Maybe this could be the ticket. Can anyone get a service manual for the camera. The secret code could be in it.

Mike

Well, Nathan Clapp found a secret service menu (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15931) on the DVX100 so I'd be surprised if the HD's didn't also have such a tool. Let's see, how many combinations of simultaneous button presses are possible while powering-up?

I tired a bunch of combinations last night. Nothing seemed to work, but I was thinking today that maybe calling JVC and asking would help? You never know - maybe they'll hand over their secret code to unlock super powers of the JVC!

Hey, if cheap DVD's can have easter eggs...why can't $4,000 cameras!

Chris

and turning off/down the edge enhance on the HD1.

That would be sweeeeeeeetttt!

Troy

I e-mailed an enhancement question to the JVC service.
NO answer in a month!
There is a better chance to find the hidden menu rather than get an answer from JVC.

Hi,

I don't know why this isn't more of a focus for camcorder owners.

When you buy a car, you pay full price and (if you have the knowledge) you can get under the bonnet and tweak the engine to your desired taste - more economy - more power etc. etc.. With camcorders ALOT of the functions (edge enhancement, PAL/NTSC zone/colour Saturation/Frame rate/ gamma response etc?) have to be controlled by software and eeprom settings - ( see the 'custom presets' on the pdx-10/pd-150 and others) - but we have no way to access them and tweak them to our taste despite the fact that we bought the WHOLE camcorder, hardware and software included - and paid full price for it.

There was a big shitfight in europe over the enabling of the 'DV-IN' feature of camcorders that were sold with this feature disabled (something about tax laws and what-not, who knows) and the manufacturers won the courtcase - meaning it was ruled ILLEGAL for owners - (despite the fact that they bought and paid for the camera in its entirety), should they figure out how - (turns out changing a single bit in a single eeprom address) to modify their camcorder to accept DV in if they had purchased a model that was sold with that function disabled. That's a precedent that manufacturers would use to apply to ALL functions in their camcorders I'm sure.

Since some comcorders are identical in hardware, but sold at two different market prices because certain features are enabled on the higher price model, the LAST thing the manufacturers would want is the users being able to get in there and turn things on and off to their personal taste.

Most camcorder owners couldn't care less - they wanna shoot with what they have and be happy with it. But the 'entusiast' or semi-professional that buys a 'consumer' camcorder (much like the 'car' enthusiast, or 'motorcycle' enthusiast - or 'home entertainment 'enthusiast) who wants to try and get the best - or just something different - out of it, is prevented due the the secrecy that surrounds the eeprom setup in each camera - and how to access it. Okay, so you void your service warranty - big deal. That's the risk you take with anything you want to customize - but here, we don't even have the option.

I think there is a market for this that the manufactures are not hip to yet. What about making available certain 'firmware upgrades' - that you pay for - that add the extra functionality to the camera? You buy the 'film look' software that gives you control over frame rate, colour, gamma and edge enhancement response in the camera. You buy the 'multizone' software upgrade that allows you to shoot in either NTSC or PAL SD etc. etc.

Only 'enthusiasts' would buy the stuff - keeping it generally out of greater public circulation and ONLY those features that the manufacturer wanted available would be included in the software.

This is all doable because it exists on camcorders already - there are menu options for controlling colour and 'softness' and white balance point in the pdx-10/pd-150/mx500/ etc etc. So why not make this type of option available (purchasable if need be) in the HD-10 or others. You update your camera with the software and hey presto! Those functions now appear in the menu.

While it would bite to have to pay extra for functions - (or control over functions) that are already in a camera you paid full price for, most of us would do it, just like we do with filters and lens adapters and all the accessories that we get to improve our work. This would just be a 'software accessory'.

Are you listening manufacturers? There's money to be made here and I KNOW you care about that....

Best,

DW.

I don't know about you, but I'd be really pissed off if I found out my JVC camera had hidden functions and they wanted me to pay to access them.

If the jerks at these companies can't make a good enough camera with great features the first time around and make profit...then they don't deserve our EXTRA money. I mean, come on...if I'm paying for a damn camera I want the best functions possible. If they keep them from me - I consider it fraud or false advertising. If they even mention something like "the best camera we could make" or whatever. I'd bet we'd be able to make a class action lawsuit....you can't purpously make a product worse, so you can scam us later. I don't think that would fly in court. The consumer has rights.

My 2 cents.

Chris

Anyone know of any camcorder "hacking" softwarwe?
I wouldn't be surprised if full manual controlls are available, but just not enabled untill v2.0 ;>)
I'll call Neo.

Reserving such functions for the use of qualified service technicians makes perfect sense. The potential warranty service costs they might incur by people who "thought" they could improve their camera through such a menu could be enormous.

Manufacturers are not shipping degraded products that contain tools to correct deliberate malfunctions. That, too, would represent a potentially very expensive manuever with absolutely no return.

Looking at the DVX100's "service menu" it's clear that there's very, very little user-usable functionality in there. I'd expect the same to be true of any other camera's similar feature.

Hi,

Chris, I didn't say they were 'making the products worse' - and I didn't say they were shipping 'degraded products'. I simply said there is functionality and control available in most camcorders that the user has no access to. And Ken you're right - there are certain parameters that ONLY a qualified service technician should be messing with. I wouldn't try to do a brake re-line on my 4wd because I know nothing about it - and I'd be an idiot going in there a messing with - NOT knowing what I was doing.

But the fact remains that most camcorder functions - (based on how they're are designed, what goes wrong with them - and what is then fixed WITHOUT replacing hardware) - must be software and eeprom based. And the technicians and service personel must have access to these functions to correct errors that happen - e.g. excessive edge enhancement or malfunctioning white balance or colour saturation. These are controls that must be in there and alterable - and things that an enthusiast videographer would appreciate having access to.

They don't have two completely different assembly lines for PAL and NTSC camcorders containing different hardware - so that function must ALSO be software based.

Suggesting that the companies release software to allow access to these controls isn't that silly. Firstly they're not just going to give away the farm by letting us all turn on and off what we want. Issueing the software themselves has a built in quality control factor in that they write the software to be compatible with their cameras and limit it to exactly what they want to put in there. As I said, it could be marketed as 'software accessories'.

Ever wonder why a successive model of camcorder comes out with the same chip, same design, same everything - but only this one can do progressive scan? Or full pixel 16x9 off the same 4:3 ccd? Yeah, me too...

Anyway, it's one of those things we could talk about forever with nothing coming of it so, onto other things....

Best,

DW

P.S. You don't have to call Neo - just do a search under JVC eeprom Manager...

I did some searching, and found info about a bit of software called " JVC EEPROM Manager " that alloowed you to see values and change values in the eeprom memory of JVC camcorders. It seemsed to be the rage a few years ago, and was popular for enableing the DV inputs on PAL cameras.
I have no idea if the same software would work on todays models, but it may be worth a try.
Doing a memory dump of the hd1 and comparing with the 10u may tell us what some of the values do.

The software talked to the camera via the 3 contact mini plug, with rs232 serial.

I don't have the JVC HD cam yet, and am still deciding which one to get. I'd get the HD1 for sure if I can turn down the sharpening.

-Les

A while ago we talked -device control- via the JLIP in this forum. In older DV cams and maybe this one, menu's could be accessed via computer and printer port or USB. Maybe advanced settings are available.
Here are some links.

http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/tech/jlip/intro_f/whatj.html

http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/tech/jlip/index.html

http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/tech/jlip/techinfo_f/index.html

http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/tech/jlip/techinfo_f/techinfo_f1/index.html

Ken

well... This is very interresting and somewhat promising. It makes sense that technicians could access the setup of the camera using a numeric port like firewire or USB.

The best way to find out would be to order a Service Manual from the JVC's Service Department. These are expensive, but Japanese HD1 version has been available from JVC Japan online for months now. They may offer the English version, including HD10, online too.

JVC audio receivers made for the US don't work in Europe because they are made for a different voltage there, which is no big deal; you can use a transformer. But the FM frequencies change in 200 kHz increments in the US and in 100 kHz increments in Europe. A simple wire connection on the printed circuit board makes the US receivers usable in Europe.

I'm open to starting a group buy for this manual, to see what it says. If others are interested, and willing to share, lets paypal one person to get the manual, and either ship it to each other, or just have one person look it over.
Anyone know how much these are? $80 or so?
I'd put up some $$ to learn more.
Let me know if others are interested!
-Les

They should cost less thab 1/2 of this and JVC Japan probably has them all listed on the web for a free download. Just email them; tell them that you're in the middle of Africa and need to look at one now, that you're in the middle of a shoot. Of course some JVC person may read this and will sabotage the effort. What's the name of the JVC engineer that visits this site? Why does not he tell us all how to get into the camcorder service menues. If it is a simple task to turn this camera into a usable tool, JVC, the company that loves and supports filmakers and festivals should be happy to tell us. It would be a great public relations act.

I downloaded the Japanese version os the SM months back, but don't have it anymore. I was told then that the English version will be available shortly.

Any good JVC sole here? Please email me ananymously info on how to get this camcorder workable, and I'll distribute it further. You'll serve a good couse and we'll all love you. And no one will ever learn who you are.

Even if this is not used for hidden functions, I would be very interesed in basic cam function through a pc. This would be very usefull in a studio set-up. If anyone makes headway in this, please let me know.
Thanx
Ken

Hi,

just a note of caution. I have obtained service manuals for other JVC camcorders in the past and they contained no information regarding eeprom, settings, menus and the like. Plenty of circuit diagrams, part numbers and layouts but nothing on accessing menus at all.

Maybe we're talking about 2 different types of 'service manuals' here but just thought I should mention it. From my investigations previously, I think JVC make it a little harder than that to get hold of eeprom data and address definitions. I hope I'm wrong.

I have got manuals previously from this site:

http://www.user-service-manuals.com/jvc-service-manuals-gr.htm

but no HD-1 or HD-10 listed there. mostly older model camcorders.

Best,

DW.

hmmm, no maybe codes in the service docs?.... well, we'll just have to dis-assemble the micro controller code then!

If only is was easy!
-L

In the normal manual for HD1 there is mentioned an adjustment manual and its number. It was impossible to buy it. The reference number was unknown to JVC salse persons! I needed it to addjust a focus plane afer replacing an optic. Still not addjusted (it's about OK, except for extreme telephoto).

Such manuals must be available. Repair shops have them.
Maybe the pro division?

Any updates to the group buy or service code acquisition?

Troy

Just a friendly reminder that if you tweak anything, be it your cell phone, computer, car/SUV/truck, or your HD10 (or any camera), you could very well break the warranty. I've also heard of people who break the warranty, but try to pay full price for repairs and they're turned away.

I just wanted to make sure everyone is aware if you try to hack it, you probably will cancel out the warranty.

heath

True enough Heath, thanks for the warning.

Has anyone ever seen or used a Jlip device?
Ken

Some guys I know who used (and abused) the HD10 said they found no hidden menus. They wrote a review, I believe, of the HD10, so they did all sorts of stuff with it.

heath

Sometimes it's pretty much impossible to find the codes to get into a service mode.
Very strange key hold down combos, in specific sequence, for certain durations can make it like cracking a safe open with a combination lock!
Especially if they have features in there, like full manual, that they don't want turned on because of product line strategies.
The only hope is a mole that can tell us from the inside, maybe.
-Les

Combos of button hitting? Sounds like the old Nintendo game from the 80s, Contra! I actually remember that code. Up down, up down...etc.

heath

Look,

The service manual available on Ebay for the HD1.

Check the link here. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2973382941&category=20331)

Troy

Hey, I called JVC and they gave me a phone number to call about a "service manual". This is the number 1-800-882-2345

I called it and was on hold for 15 minutes before hanging up. I have a shoot I need to be on, so if anyone else wants to call and see if we can get a service manual...great.

Also, I just found a bunch of sites with downloadable service manuals. Maybe we can find it on there? I have looked, but maybe I have missed it?

http://schema99.host.sk/index.php?order=nom&direction=0

http://www.user-service-manuals.com/

http://www.servicemanuals.net

http://www.stereomanuals.com/manuals/jvc/jvc.htm

Someone is selling service manuals for the HD10U and HD1U on ebay. If you go to ebay and type in HD10US in the search bar it should be the only listing that comes up. It is listed at 24.75 for the buy now price. Not sure if it's legit or not but thought I would let you know.

Already got mine.

heath

There isn't anything useful to the average user in the service manuals..don't bother buying it unless you plan to take the thing apart and void your warrenty.

Murph

Probably a waste of $25 and it isn't worth the warranty void, good call Murph.

heath

Does the service manual confirm my suspicion that the sd-hd switch on the side of the camera actual does a lens movement also? I think SD uses a smaller part of the cdd.
-Les

I couldn't make sense of it, neither could an engineer friend of mine.

hwm

Chris or Heath,

Would either of you guys be willing to part with your service manual for the HD10U? Lemme know.

I can assure you, if it is there, I will find it :-)

Lou Bruno

I noticed on some other JVC cams (JVC GY DV5000) that there are hidden service menues to allow control of a great many things. These are activated by holding down certain keys while powering up the camera.
I'll bet there are similar menus in the JVC HD cameras.
I don't own one yet, but if I did, I would try a bunch of stuff while powering it on to see if I can find it.
JVC GY DV5000 has all kinds of stuff in there.
Lets hope that the HD cams have some stuff too.
Let the search begin!
-Les

ps: I'll trade 40 running min of 16/35mm 2K film scanning for one of these JVC cameras! No Kidding!

Keep us posted Lou.

Sounds like the old Nintendo game from the 80s, Contra! I actually remember that code. Up down, up down...etc.

Sadly I know exactly what you're referring to as it was the only way to defeat the vile Red Falcon (http://www.classicgaming.com/contra/emu/contra1.zip). Now excuse me why I go and fire up my NES emulator! :)

Chris or Heath,

Would either of you guys be willing to part with your service manual for the HD10U? Lemme know.

I bought it as well. Send me a PM or an email and I'll give it to you (I don't have access to HD1/10s anymore).

My friend has my HD10, and I can't find the service manual. It's on a CD somewhere. Glad Xander is stepping up to help out.

heath

So, I got my hands on the HD10U's service manual (thanks, Patrick!). Does anyone have one of those JLIP serial cables for connecting a PC to the camcorder?

Here's a rough schematic to build one (midway down) + looks like a ton of info for debugging.

http://pagina.vizzavi.pt/~ng93827a/JVC/

You wanna build it for me? I have no clue how to read that.

In furthering my investigation into this hacking project, a very knowledgeable JVC dealer told me that there have been modifications to the HD10U since its release. From trying to read between the lines of what the dealer was 'saying' without saying it (NDA?? He would neither confirm nor deny this), several hardware changes have been made without the model number changing. This would lead to different firmware floating around.

The HD10U that I have access to was made in 10/03, so I'm assuming this has the 'original' programming. Does anyone have a camera that was made in '05? I'd like to compare the bit changes. If you do have an '05 camera that I can borrow, contact me off list, or if you know where I can rent one, please tell me.

Xander, that begs the question of how to determine one's camera's firmware version. My HD10 was in for service for two months between December 2004 and February 2005 for a CCD block replacement under warranty. I'm wondering if there's any way to determine whether they upgraded my firmware in the process. They had enough time.