Okay, so I've shot stuff, but wasn't too happy with it.

Today, a pair of nice guys took the time to show me two D-VHS tapes with HD10 stuff:

1. A rap music video, that looked INCREDIBLE, even in low-light situations and outside.

2. A concert, not for the shoot (they just recorded the show), of the rock band Puddle of Mudd. For something that was out of focus occasionally (hey, I freelance at the local music ampitheatre, so I know how tough it is to do video of that stuff on a shoe-string), unforgivable concert lighting and more, it looked GREAT!

Okay, so aside from some issues, I'm now once again (for the millionth time) even MORE excited.

Of course, I would advise against shooting like it's an XL-1 (the guys who showed me the tape said, "Think like you're shooting a movie: lit well, etc."), but it still looked great!

Thanks,

heath

Hey Heath,

"Okay, so I've shot stuff, but wasn't too happy with it."

Why have you been unhappy with your footage?

Because I shot it hand held, with no lighting, just inside work (flourescent lights), etc. We can't shoot really like that with this camera.

And right now, I don't have the camera, as I sent it to a friend for tests (I wrote that in another thread).

heath

Heath we need more dedicated pioneers like you.

Pioneer? No...Broke indie filmmaker? Yes.

heath

I think all the talk of "careful shooting" and "shoot like it's film" is a bit much.

I've shot 35mm and 16mm film and know the care that needs to go into it (if you want to make it look it's best). You dont need to put nearly the effort into this camera. I just shot 70+ hours of footage for a documentary I did in Africa -- totally run and gun style. The footage looks very good.

Obviously, if I had "setup" every shot, it would have looked better, but that can be said of ANY camera including the cheapest DV or even VHS.

The run and gun stuff looked proportionally as good as my previous docmentarys using DV.

There are some blow-out issues, but throw an ND (i used 4x - 32x) on when outdoors and you're OK. Sometimes I didnt even use them! Latitude is a bit more narrow then stuff I've used, but no big deal. I wish this camera was a bit more manual, but in the situation I was just in, I'm not sure I would have used it much. Manual focus is easy with the LCD -- even racked (often) very sucessfully.

Fear not potential users!!

Steven,

Any possibilities we could see some nice frame grabs from your African production?

But would we use a Varicam like a BetaCam?

heath

Hey Steven G,

I'll be doing a doc in africa spring of next year. A follow up of one I did last year. This time I'll have the JVC. My concerns with this cam that I've seen so far are mainly color noise, I can handle everything else. Do you see any issues w/ color noise in your footage? From my experience Africa is VERY rich in colors and sights, your footage should be beautiful.

Steven, I am pleased that you could be satisfied by the HD10 in run and gun mode, I really thought you would. I too think this camera is pretty neat but a lot of people have been bitching the camera without some tests of their own. I think there will be more and more "satisfied customers" as people use the camera, S.L. Minor seem to have enjoyed is short making with it too.

Revolution has just barely begun...

Went to the Production Expo in NYC yesterday and spoke to a sales lady on the Panasonic booth about the HD10U. I can honestly say that this was the most frustrating 1/2 hour of this year. So many people are misinformed about this camera, it's unbeleivable. "It's not HD resolution!" "Can't keep track of fast motion like the varicam"...on and on and on. I think that there is nothing more I despise in this business than "Blanket Critics". People who have totally closed their options based on very little knowledge. The positive is that everyone is talking about it.

Anyway, I'm directing a short in Austin, TX in a couple of weeks and I'm going to shoot it with the HD10U. I made sure to hire an awesome Gaffer! We'll see the results. I'll post scenes for everyone to look at.

I bitch about it because of the frustrating controls, but then I got used to it. And the fact that Apple didn't really support it (and still technically don't). But now that I think about how to shoot it, ie, not dogme 95, it's cool.

About Panasonic--I think that rep was just, I don't know, angry? Panasonic's name wasn't on the list, even though JVC are owned by the same peeps. It's still potential competition.

The DVX100 is the most advanced mini-dv camera out there (the HD10 may record on mini-dv tapes, but it's not DV), and I'm betting they are losing sales to the HD10. And so is the XL-1s and the VX2000, and that might be part of the reason why Canon and Sony jumped onboard so quick.

Just my theories, as whacked out as they may be.

Now that I have all these tips and Panther installed in the G5, I wish I had the HD10, but it's on the way to NYC for tests.

heath

Color noise and desaturation are both apparent in a low-light situations, but are not issue enough to cause me to even consider another camera at this point.

Actually, I like this camera in low light. Usually ovesaturated colors like those I captured during a sunset are rich and realistic. The measure of color noise actually looks a bit filmic (maybe I'm stretching:). The blacks are BLACK, making these compositions look especially nice with the clean blacks of foreground trees, etc.

Strong critics, and those that say this camera needs extra special attention, either never used the camera or are looking for an excuse for their production.

This camera performs like a champ in a "rip out of it's bag, totally renegade run, and gun style", and I have almost 80 hours of footage to prove it.

It should be pointed out that I believe that the more time you spend setting up a shot, the better it will look. This is not because the HD10 is HD, it's because it is a camera.

BTW - The first thing I heard about this camera (from a respected critic at a respected site) is that "it is a joke", and "it has highly visable compression artifacting". That review and many like-others caused me to not even look at it until 1 month before I left for Kenya. These people obviously never held this camera. Can I sue?

This camera is not perfect, but it is $3000.

-Steven Galvano

<<<-- Originally posted by Steven Galvano : The run and gun stuff looked proportionally as good as my previous docmentarys using DV. ... Manual focus is easy with the LCD -- even racked (often) very sucessfully.-->>>

What is the largest HD monitor/screen you screened your footage on?

It's the same thing I heard when I just turned 20 years old and was hearing that the VX1000 was a cool camera. Of course, I couldn't afford it, but I was a brash stupid 20 year old 7 years ago, ready to conquer the world. Even if the analog video snobs hated it without knowing.

In 1999, when George Lucas kept insisting he'll shoot STAR WARS 2 digitally the following year, my old film professor called me an "idiot." No kidding. And he was in his early 30s at the time, not some old-school professor. Well, looks like we were right!

heath

Heath,

That's right...you sent your camera to your friend in NYC for some 35 mm blowup test?...or was it just HD comparison test?

Oh...she really got to me when she said "This camera is only good for web video formats." That's when I finally walked away.

It's funny when you listen to 'so called' experts and you slowly realize that they're idiots.

Just HD tests, 35 mm is a bit TOO pricey!

heath

Some houses will do 1 minute for free. Had it done years ago.

<<<-- Originally posted by Frederic Haubrich : Some houses will do 1 minute for free. Had it done years ago. -->>>

Hmmm...If I can get my hands on a Varicam tape, along with what I'll already be getting (the HD10 tapes and, if he does it, the DVX100 tapes), I just may do that.

heath

Of course there is the inherit problems with converting 720p to Film 24fps but here's my view on this (not that you asked):

1/ The number of theatres and film fests planning on projecting HD in digital is growing every week.

2/ I beleive that the 'old' conversion technique of shooting a high quality LCD (HD Rez in this case) might be appropriate in this case vs. the digital frame scanning approach.

I thought the HD10 footage could be viewed with no problems in 1080i HD...

heath

Heath,

Yes it can. It will play at 1080i right into a DVHS for recording.

I was just talking about blowing it up to 35mm for theatrical release.

Oh, gotcha.

hwm

ps-Maybe this camera isn't for 24 FPS film transfer.

Good question Alex--


I've logged a bunch of stuff to date on our 65" Sony ES series HD TV. Largely, the stuff is pretty locked. Thank God for the JVC engineer who thought up the aliasing thing--

I had some soft stuff outdoors where the LCD itself was harder to see. But, thankfully, the AF worked better in bright light to grab focus. I did have SOME focus issues, but so far so good. Maybe my eyes are just good:)

-Steven Galvano

I hear there is an 80 inch HDTV. I wonder how the HD10 will look.

Dang, now I REALLY wish I had it right here. (Testing is good, testing is good...)

heath

Thanks Steven. I guess 65" is a VERY large HD monitor, so any imperfections would show...

<<<--- I did have SOME focus issues, but so far so good --->>>

I just watched Network, the 1976 movie (a good one!). Even on DVD, one of the most important scenes - Max talks to Diana, towards the end of the film - looked REALLY out of focus.

So obviously stuff happens even with large productions.

The fact that you got the focus fine fo the most part of the shoot with only flip-out LCD as a monitor, is very encouraging. Like you, I also like this thing when the image "pops" on the LCD when in focus. Even more so on HD1 - but I ran as far as I could from its edge enhancement artifacts...

<<<--- Manual focus is easy with the LCD -- even racked (often) very sucessfully. --->>>

Now, this one is contrary to my own experience... I found the focus ring to have some sort of response lag, and it seems to be impossible to reproduce the results as it ends up in different position for the same focus in different takes.

Is my camera defective or do you have a technique that works around that?

<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Raskin : Thanks Steven. I guess 65" is a VERY large HD monitor, so any imperfections would show...
-->>>

So how would a film blowup hold up?

Good point - I should clarify. I never really tried to reproduce a focus pull as I never really had a "take 2".

On our film productions, our 1st camera assist cuts little paper markers and sticks them to the lens marking exact focus. I don't think the ring on the HD10 is that accurate:)

I basically just kept in mind that clockwise motion brought focus in, anf counter clockwise brought it out. My point was that I liked the response. I was able to do it accurately on the fly because I would rotate until focus poped.

I love racking -- and this is the easiest (small camera) I've done it on.

Steven Galvano

Alex,

Yes I experienced something similar.

I did change the settings 'sorry forgot the exact name' in the menu for focusing closer to the lense and I found that I had a lot of room to play with when the exposure was optimized for short depth of field.

In some instances, I could change the focus on three seperate distances clearly.

I was impressed. I was only able to do that with the Ps Technique on the XL1. $8K adapter.

I think I misspelled 'PS Technique'.

Yan,

Assuming (and these are assumptions I am making because I haven't tested it) the 720p frame rate issue is taken care of by transfering to film via shooting a hires LCD, footage has been color corrected (I never let a show go until it has been completely color corrected), the footage from this camera will look a lot better than DV.

For one simple reason, resolution.

The number one enemy of video to film is the lack of resolution. If it isn't there it just isn't there.

Now many have done well blowing DV to film (Blair Witch Project, Last Broadcast, Celebration, that latest docu drama shot in the middle east) but somehow, the quality of image was always part of the story in some way.

I am very excited about this camera because despite its imperfections, it has something no DV camera has, resolution.

But the true answer to your question is, let's wait and see the first print.

hey guys, owned the camera for 7 months, outside is amazing, inside you need a serious lighting truck to give it enough light or it looks like bad DV..

just finished a short film shot in tokyo..

write scripts with heaps of exteriors

Bernard,

That's good to hear. Hey woud you have some examples of good footage you could show us?

sure fly back to sydney tomorrow, what sort of post is good?? stills ? TS files on my website ? what is useful ? i use the camera then 55mm filters, it looks amazing and the only cost is camera tapes..

Small TS would be awesome!

Got really, really drunk once in Sydney, fell in the bay, got rescued by some of your compatriots and went back in the bar to drink more. That was a good time...

Yes indeed, it would be great to see some new footage, I too will look forward to this.

Hi, I'm looking forward to your footage too!

Thanks,
Chris