Greetings all.
Love your work..

it's finally come down to it..

Now, I can purchase a PDX10 for approx $4,699 (AUD)
OR I can purchase a VX2000 for approx $4,670 (AUD)

so that's either for about US $3,250

AARRGH!
what would you do!?!

opinions/advice much appreciated.

Anthony

Save your money and buy a Panasonic MX500 instead? A Canon Optura Xi perhaps?

Depending on what kind of shooting you plan to do should determine which cam you should go for.

Personally, I think the VX2000 is the best of the lot (cams mentioned), but consider the good 16:9 mode of the PDX10, MX500 and Optura Xi. Audio is another matter. I think the PDX10 audio is better, plus it's got XLRs.

Need a cam that will do good in very low light and high contrast? Need a 'second' cam for a PD150/PD170 setup? Need to shoot in very uncontrolled light conditions? Don't care much about the audio? Then prefer the VX2000/VX2100.

Need a cam for high quality audio, 16:9 and portability? Will be shooting in normal lighting conditions or controlled conditions? Then settle for the PDX10.

I would think for film transfer the PDX10 might be better using 16:9. Wonder if anybody has done this yet...

--
i.

Low light? The VX2000.

The best for film transfers? That would depend on the method of the film transfer used. Pick a transfer lab, then see what they recommend.

Whatever you buy have a friend in the US get it!...I got my PDX10 for $1849 US

thanks guys, as alway.

I've managed to organise a little hands-on play with the cams tomorrow morning. Hopefully I'll be able to make a decisive choice afterward.
But now the flipp'n vx2100 is less than three weeks away (according to cam store specialist) might wait for that.. but then there's the P170.. then there's the ....

sigh..

I'm sure whatever I choose, I'll adapt to it's quirks (which by the sound of things, the pdx10 has more of) and enjoy filming.

<<<-- Originally posted by Anthony Milic : so that's either for about US $3,250 AARRGH! what would you do!?! -->>>

Hmm... buy a plane ticket to NYC, spend the weekend, buy the camera of your choice for under $2,000? Seriously, you're paying quite a premium for these cameras "down under". If you bought one in the US how much would the import duties (if any) be?..

ha. yeah I know boyd.. it's depressing.
I've had a look around (B&H etc) and don't think I'll end up saving that much.
wish me luck!

ps.. CONGRATS on the 'promotion' :)

If your goiing to be in the States then it's a good idea but a ticket to the Us costs around AUD$1200. That plus the customs would make it cheaper to buy in AUS. Australia is also a PAL country and many US stores don't carry PAL cameras in stock, they have to order them, if they can get them at all.

Anthony, if you wait a few more weeks until the VX2100 comes out you should be able to pick up a VX2000 at a fairly reduced price. From what I've read about the VX2100 the differences are not that great between the two, much like the PD150/170

not going to the states.

yeah, that's the thing, the vx2100 should be available to me in about 3 weeks (according to retailer) the only problem is that my window of opportunity for taking advatage of approx 30% saving (due to purchasing through Sony insider -he's resigning) may close before the 2100 is available. If I wait, I may loose out altogether and end up paying full retail. In which case I'd be forced to go with the pdx10 as -for some reason- it is dramatically cheaper than the vx2000 here.
ho hum. perhaps I'll let circumstances dictate my decision.. then I've got no one to blame but fate him/her self ;) ... (oh and myself for not deciding in the first place)

Adrian your exactly right.
I am from Western Australia so I need a PAL camera.
I am right now looking at the PDX10P(PAL).
A few prices Below:

TRV950E(PAL):$2049.95US-----AUD=$2903.75
TRV950(NTSC):$1599.95US-----AUD=$2266.05

PDX10P(PAL):$2549.95US-----AUD=$3682.23
PDX10(NTSC):$1999.95US-----AUD=$2832.00

PD150P(PAL):$3639.95US-----AUD=$5154.68
PD150(NTSC):$3099.95US-----AUD=$4390.23

VX2000E(PAL):$2599.95US-----AUD=$3682.12
VX2000(NTSC):$2349.95US-----AUD=$3327.59

DVX100E(PAL):$3499.95US-----AUD=$4956.02
DVX100(NTSC):$3299.95US-----AUD=$4672.69

Now, I am making a surf film that will be distibuted both US and Australia mainly Australia though. The camera is going to be used for both land shots & water shots, with a Dave Kelly custom waterhousing. If I am going to be shooting water with this camera It will definatly need to be reasonably small, smaller than the PD150 I would think. I don't want to put my life in danger with a big camera. However I need a camera that can produce great picture and sound results.


So I have given you the prices and what the camera is going to be used for. What do you think will best suit me for this big project. In the future this camera will become just a water camera instead of both land and water. Oh and by the way land shooting also consists of lifestyle shots.

Do you think I will have trouble with NTSC here in Australia considering AUS is purely PAL, however new telelvisions are multisystem. But only the new ones.

Globalmediapro.com have the PDX10P considerably cheaper but I do not trust this online store.

Anyone want to help me out with getting a cheap PAL camera from the US ;-)

Boyd Import duties are 10% GST to Australia!

Hope you can all help me out with this decision.
Thanks

well Steve, based on those prices - you're saving about $1000 on the best price I've been able to find in Oz. Good luck - and hey if you find a reliable and cost effective purchase/shipping arrangement, by all means - do share!! :)

Wish you all the best with the surf film too. I'll have to check out the west coast swell one of these days.

one other thing - find out about the operation of the PDx10 in regard to vertical smear. I would think that reflections through filming in/on/under/near water would be atrocious.. err, this coming from zero experience on my part of course ;)

Steve,

The PDX10 would be a great camera for water work. It is a lot easier to work in the water with a smaller cam. If your primary distrubition is going to be in Australia then I would go with a PAL camera, you get better res/colour and I my opinion it's better to convert from PAL to NTSC than try to upconvert NTSC to PAL. It's also easier to work with PAL in Aus than it is with NTSC, let the distributor worry about the PAL to NTSC conversions. In the end it's up to you whether you go with PAL or NTSC. I can tell you it's a hassle working with PAL here in Japan. If you buy from the States it's also going to be a hassle getting your camera repaired or serviced. My XL has to go back to Aus everytime I get it serviced. I'm really looking forward to heading back home to the Goldy and PAL land.

Good luck, and let me know when you get finished, as I haven't been to WA for a while and the waves here in Japan make Triggs look like Margrets in March.

I would go for the VX2000E unless you have a lot of underwater lights and need native 16:9, in tha latter case I would try the PAL PDX10. You can always deal with smear by moving the lights, but you cannot remove noise from dark video. Since you will be doing underwater work, you will find yourself with less light. Heck even out of the water the PDX10 looks like a toy camera in comparison to the PD150 or VX2000 when there is little light. Of course, when there is lot of light the PDX10's picture is better... at least to me, even in 4:3.

Hehehe Adrian you know your spots. Qld has a few nice spots and I plan to make it out there next year. Kirra and D'Bah the main target. D'Bah is actually just across the border in NSW though, which I plan to make a trip to very soon. I think your right I will stick with PAL.

Ignacio I am not so much shooting underwater. I am shooting in water but above the surface. 90% of the time when I am surfing there would easily be enough light. I am a little worried about the vertical smear, because often when shooting surf shots you can not chose the angle your shooting from, the wave is either a left or a right. I will learn to work around it though.

Thanks for the input

Later

Stevo

I've just come back from a 2-hour session of playing with the VX2000 and PDX10.
VX2000 AUD $5,499
PDX10 AUD $4,699
First impressions:
VX2000 - A joy to hold and operate. I couldn't help but LIKE this camera. The settings are very nicely placed for the most part. I can see why this model has been so popular.
PDX10 - A bugger to handle in comparison. A little lopsided/unbalanced and awkward. I wouldn't consider this a one-hand-cam as the design and side strap imply. Settings not so conveniently placed and I found myself having to put the camera down in order to interact with some menu's/settings.

Recorded Footage:
Brilliant images produced by both of these cameras. Though I was limited inside a well-lit office. At one point I filmed through a window at some pedestrians walking in the streets below. when playing back, I was very impressed with the clarity that was maintained throughout the entire zoom as I followed them.
The PDx10 needs a little tweak soon after optimum lighting is reduced.. expected.. Still, I don't really think it's that much of an issue. HOWEVER, I did not get into extremely low light. Lowest light was in a small utility office with one window but no artificial light. I ended up crouching in a corner behind boxes to try and get a good dark sample.

Vertical smear-shmear. I just didn't find it a problem at all until I was pushing extremes on frame rate and aperture... (I think it was those two), but baby when it was there, it was THERE. I had a sc-fi show going. But still manageable as far as I'm concerned.
I was surprised to find the vz2000 smearing also with similar settings.. perhaps it was the environment

PDX10 native 16:9 is grrreat. Now, you may think I'm partially blind.. and I cringe at typing this, but at a casual glance I didn't actually see that much of a jaw dropping difference. Yes the 'compression' of vx200's 'wide screen' and cropping makes for less footage displayed, but I was surprised that the image quality was so similar... or should I say, based on my expectations, I was surprised not to find more of a difference in image quality.
come to think of it.. why would there be... ok disregard previous.

Circumstances did not permit testing/comparison of sound.

so.. after a limited 'scratch n' sniff'. I still can't decide which cam to go with! :(
I really am happy with image quality on both. Somehow I couldn't help but feel the vx2000 was a fraction of a fraction more vibrant - but not noticeable without direct comparison on screen.

I just don’t know!!!

I'm sick of the indecision. It's really getting to me.

Camera store guy said he'd allow me to exchange the pdx10 for vx2000 or vice versa if I found that I wasn't happy with it. Which would be great, but I don't want to buy the vx2000 from him because I can get it from a Sony insider for AUD$47000 (saving myself $1000) So if I buy the pdx10 from him, I'm stuck with it.

So basically I can get either cam for same price.... I just can't decide which one.

Insane
Anthony

ps.. hmm. maybe I'll just get the vx2000 for now, learn the tricks of the trade, and finally when a camera with dvcam format, native 16:9, great sound, low lux etc comes out, I'll be in a poisition to buy... hopefully. Hey, gotta start somewhere right?. vx2000 good place to start?

<<<-- Originally posted by Anthony Milic : at a casual glance I didn't actually see that much of a jaw dropping difference. Yes the 'compression' of vx200's 'wide screen' and cropping makes for less footage displayed, but I was surprised that the image quality was so similar -->>>

Just curious, what sort of monitor have you used for comparison? I find the PDX-10 to be quite noticeably better in 16:9 when compared to the VX-2000. In fact, if you want to shoot 16:9 using a VX-2000 then my tests indicate better results by cropping in post. The builtin 16:9 setting seems to degrade the cropped image with DV compression somehow.

<<<-- Originally posted by Anthony Milic : Hey, gotta start somewhere right?. vx2000 good place to start? -->>>

The VX-2000 is a great camera and I agree completely with your comments about its feel and controls as compared to the PDX-10. In spite of all this I think it will always come back to the question of 16:9 quality and how much value you place on that.

With more experience in a more controlled comparison test I bet you'd find the difference between the 16:9s. However, it doesn't sound like your top priority. Nor does it sound like you were able to put low light abilities through the paces, so maybe you could pay the cams another visit, or go with one right now, check it out at home any which way you want, then do the same with the other one. If you're sick with indecision, but aren't exactly willing to eeny meeny miny mo, well, you're in a postiion to thoroughly check them both out. Do that. But, to answer a broad general question, YES, the vx2000 is a great camera to start out with. You could just go with it, not look back, learn a lot and have a helluva lotta fun :-) . But be cool. You're in a good position for decision making.

Boyd & Sean,

Appreicate your time.

--I don't know exactly what monitor we used, though it was a current model sony wide screen. standard def..
I have no doubt of the superior 16:9 quality of the PDX10. All my comments were obviously from a 'first glance/inexperienced' perspective.
The image did look awesome. I suppose I was just expecting to be shocked by the contrast. (maybe expecting to see some dancing monkeys or showgirls in my peripheral :))
Now, 16:9 is very important to me, but it IS a preference because .. well.. it's a preference, I like the format.. BUT.. there's always a 'BUT' seeing as these two cams both lack in certain areas..so I'm left to bounce between the two and their respective preferences...

Yes I am in a good position for decision making, though I could be here for ever, mulling over differences, application and preferences.. waiting that extra week after week, after week for that new (and hopefully improved) model to be released..
I suppose I should go back to the store and have another look. I mean that's what they're there for right!?

Mr Salesman said something about a completely different setup for the way these two cams capture and process light. (not just talking CCD size) if this is true, and If we can put 16:9 aside for a moment - I'd like to have your opinion ( and I know this is a broad question) on which camera you believe produces (In 'normal' conditions) a 'better image'? (awaiting requests of "..well Anthony, define 'better'.." ;) )

I suppose I'm leaning more and more toward the VX. I think I'd prefer to invest in a later model 16:9 that I'm really happy with. --and very much hope to in the future.

In your opinion/s: What are the most obvious failings of the vx2000, and why?

soon to be finding peace in a decision-

Anthony

The thing people complain about the most is the VX's audio, but none of these prosumer cameras come with good mics out of the box. The thing the PDX has over hte VX in this department is XLR inputs which allow you to just plug in a good shotgun/lav and be on your way. With the VX you will need to buy a 3rd party XLR apapter and a good mic package. With the PDX you only need the mic package.

Anthony,

Many of these things have already been covered in recent threads if you review them. Yes, audio is a weakness on the VX. Even with an XLR box I don't think it sounds as good as the PDX. But it's probably good enough.

The LCD screen on the PDX is way better - larger, brighter, higher res.

The BW viewfinder on the PDX is much nicer than the color viewfinder on the VX

The PDX shoots DVCAM, if that matters to you

Adaptor lenses and filters will be much cheaper in the PDX's 37mm size.

The VX with the NPF-960 battery will run much longer than anything available on the PDX. But the included batteries on both cameras are pretty pathetic. Be sure to budget for larger batteries either way.

As far as "a completely different setup for the way these two cams capture and process light", well that sounds like a sales pitch. The PDX does have the 14 bit DXP chip which gives it cleaner images when you boost the gain. It also has the recently discussed double-secret internal ND filters.

Regarding the 16:9, well no you aren't going to see a "shocking contrast" between any DV cameras. The resolution just limited by other factors. However you will see the difference between an image made up from the full 480 vertical lines on the PDX versus one that is interpolated from 360 lines on the VX. In other words it should be (theoretically) 25% better, hardly worthy of showgirls and dancing monkeys, but I'll take whatever I can get! ;-)

I think you may be fixating a little too much on all this. Whatever camera you choose will involve some compromises. None of the prosumer cameras have true professional controls. On the VX I find the manual adjustments manageable, but their layout seems pretty random and awkward. Same with the PDX, although a bit more awkward still. Seems to me like you're heading for a coin-toss soon. Then once you've made your decision - as others have said - don't look back, just enjoy the new camera and start learning how to get the most from it!

vx2000

great in low light
only ok for sound
a few more manual controls


PDX10

only ok in low light
great sound
great 16:9
balanced XLR inputs


If you can live without shooting good footage in the evenings indoors (weddings, other functions) for money, go with the PDX10, get the low light cam next year. If you absolutely must shoot evenings, indoors, in whatever light available, right now, go with the vx2000. If you see yourself covering music functions often, and feel you could work around or accept potentially low light situations, go with the PDX10. It really has to do with knowing what you want to do with the camera. Clearly one does not fit all applications. Some of this you just won't fully comprehend until you gain real experience with a cam, any cam. If you just don't have specific applications in mind, then, for you, right now, there isn't a wrong choice.

Thank you Frank, 'blip', Steve, Ignacio, Adrian and Boyd!!

Yes Boyd, and I apologise for the times that I've recycled discussion topics -I must adjust my forum etiquette. - but you gents have always been so darn helpful none-the-less. When I first stumbled across the forum I spent hours reviewing the pd/vx pages. Much of the information was Latin.. nay, 'igpay atinlay', to me at that stage. But as I've progressed through, I've learnt quite a bit and slowly have come to understand more and more of what I was reading - and of course I have you guys to thank for that. *cheesy grin, tooth twinkle.;)
Searching through the forum again for already discussed topics relating to my 'soon to be immediately' relevant queries will definitely be a huge help. I'm ;looking forward to having discussion based on first hand experience.

Yes, you're completely right about my fixating on certain aspects of both cams. That of course is based on inexperience, fear or buyers remorse ('wrong' purchase more-so than 'the' purchase') and my relying mostly on 3rd hand/party opinions. Thus the backward-forward... but everyone's been so helpful!

I'm going for the vx2100. It's a weight off my shoulders to have made the decision, and now I just need to secure the price through my mysterious 'sony insider'.
I'm looking forward to what sony has to offer over the next year or so. Perhaps one day they'll make that perfect cam... oh but then how would they improve on perfection???
surely large corporations have our best interests at heart!?!
;)

cheers to all.

Anthony

note to self: must ecomomise on wordplay.

The VX2000 is a very good cam and Sony has just made it better, according to the specs. So you most likely made a wise decision. I hear it'll be out soon, this month or next.

Congratulations on your decision! Be sure to give us a report on the VX-2100 when you get your hands on it.