Yes, I know and I've researched everybody's opionions and reviews on this but here's my question. For the prices...which would YOU go with?

VX2000 - $1799, used once and has extra NP-F750 battery with it

GL2 - $1699, brand new in box, original accessories

I'm debating which to go with. What's your opinion?

What will you be using it for? I'd still go with a VX2000/2100 or a PD150/170. I know what this camera will do. It's a rock solid tool.

I would go with either, though I lean slightly toward the VX2000. But then again, what will you be doing with it? If you want to capture some nice cheeks, while hiding behind a little distance, the GL2's 20X zoom will come in handy. If low light is a major concern, then you can't beat the VX2000, unless you want to go for a used DV500.

The main thing I will be using it for is probably more "gureilla" type shooting if that can describe it accurately. If you look at the post in the GL2 forum you can see 2 of the music video's I've made, or you can go here

mike.acunett.com/movies

Low light would probably be the only reason i'd go with it over the Canon along with that I've owned Sony Handycam's for the past 14 years (I still have one of the early 8mm handycam's...doesn't record but I have it!). I've had a TRV67, TRV530 and a PC100 since, not to mention the DSC-S70 digital camera and the F717 camera I have from them now.

One quick question is there one camera that you'd ahve to reccomend the optical stabilizer on? I've only had electronic stabilizers up until this upcoming purchase.

I know the VX2000 doesn't have manual controls for audio but which mic would you say is better, being that I'll probably be carrying the mic around I'd like to have a relitavely good onboard one.

The only reason I woulnd't get the VX2000 is I know the VX2100 is coming out in December and I'm worried that the VX2000 will drop in price so much after it comes out that it will be better just to wait until then or get the GL2 now. $1799 is a pretty good price though and I was thinking that this would probably the average going price then. Any other suggestions/comments? Thanks for you help so far.

The VX2K does have a manual audio control. The gain is ganged and not independant for each channel though.

The GL2 is smaller and lighter than the VX2000. You do say it's a guerilla cam.

I know, there are 4 main cam's I've been looking at, each has its own selling point to me.

VX2000
Pro - Low Light
Con - Size, No Movie Mode (Although I'm not sure I'd use one anyways)

TRV950
Pro - Price, a little, Don't have to buy new batteries, I have 3 NP-50's right now, I can use my 100ft Nightshot/Video Light combo, fast auto focus
Con - Everybody says GL2 is better quality for just about $200 more, no movie mode, but I'm not sure I'd use it if I had it.

GL2
Pro - Zoom, Smaller Size, Movie Mode
Con - I have to buy new batteries

GL1
Pro - PRICE$$$, Movie Mode
Con - Older Cam, HAve to buy used, everybody says GL2 is a night and day difference over this one.


Everytime I look at one cam, I remember what another has and keep thinking I might use that sometime. I just can't seem to decide in my head what I'd use and what I woulnd't, and what feature is really worth $700,$300, or $200 more!!!

Hmmm. Look for a used PD100A/TRV900.

GL1/GL2 frame mode is just a little extra icing.

For price, look at the Canon Optura Xi and Panasonic PV-DV953. But if "low light" is a major concern, go with the VX2000.

(The PV-DV953 also has frame mode.)

That's what I've been thinking. I think I will go with a TRV950 now, even though I had originally ruled it out. I'll buy a new one, and its a Sony...and I like sony...:). But anyways it will save me on batteries, and lens accessories...etc. I'd buy a TRV900 but it goes back to I already have 3 batteries for the TRV950 which is more than enough and If I bought a TRV900 I'd end up spending $100 on one or two other batteries for it. Any reasons you can think of why you wouldn't go with it. I can get a GL2 for $1699 plus ship new, or a TRV950 for $1400-$1500 plus shipping new. I just don't think the GL2 has $200-$300 worth of features that I WOULD USE!!! It may have more but now that I think about it I've narrowed everything down to features I'd use, movie mode may be cool but in reality, I don't think it would make much of any difference for the type of filming I will be doing.

BTW, I'd looked at the DV953 and just from its 14lux low light I've ruled it out!! Anyways I looked on eBay (I konw you hear horror stories but thats where I'd buy onw). I could probably get a TRV900 for around $700-$1000!!! Which seems like SUCH a better deal. For that price I don't think the TRV950 has $400-$500 worth of features I'd use. That bluetooth on it is one of the most worthless features I've seen myself on a video camera, I don't know about anybody else but thats my $.02 on bluetooth.

I agree about the bluetooth.

I worked the VX2000 down to $1499 plus $29 shipping, what would be your choice out of all of these? I'm leaning HEAVILY towards buying the VX now, just because of this awesome price and it was how much I was going to spend on the TRV950, the only downside is the size...thats it.

Tim
I have the means to buy what i want and i'm happy with my VX2K. I've looked at the DVX100 and the JVC Streamcorder, even the GL2 and the PDX10.

The VX2K is a rock solid performer. It's a proven tool and it's very user friendly.
JMO

For that price, what are you waiting for? Get the VX2000 while you can. But are you sure this is a "legit" deal? You're not going to get soaked on this are you? It's not Broadway photo, Royal camera or any of those scam magazine outfits?

I compared the Vx against the TRV950 and VX was clearly better in low light. Beat the GL2 also (but not by that much). If you wait for the VX2100, it'll cost you at least $1,000 more. There aren't enough improvments in my mind to make that transition. As for batteries, I bought my big 960 off Ebay brand new and saved $50 over retail.

Beware that that the VX2000 is noticably heavier than the GL2. It's also more than an inch longer. The GL2 is better balanced than the vx2000 (which is front heavy). You don't shoot with the VX2000 one-handed like you could with the GL2. That said, I like how the VX feels very solid and well-built. The plastic on the GL2 is part of what makes it lighter, and that's ok. It's a great cam too, just that there's a trade-off. On the plus side, a lot of your Sony accessories (not batteries) will probably work with with the VX (charger, etc). The footage will more closely match your PC100 (that's the small handheald, right?) than the default GL2 will.

Its a private deal, but its legit and I'm using escrow.com Not a fake escrow...the real one. He also has actual pictures and describes the minor scratches along with pictures to go along with it. His description is not copied and pasted and it comes with 2 extra batteries, that 960 battery and the 740 or 750 battery(the 7 one lol). I figure if I get it and decide its too big I can always re-sell it for a small profit and buy the GL2 or something else.

Tim

Tim,
Don't get the 950. It's terrible in low light. There are some (used) 1 CCD cams that are better in low light than the 950. Not saying that the picture is sharper or more saturated with the 1CCD, but the picture is lighter. The GL2 is much better in low light than the 950. If you're gonna be shooting anything indoors under natural lighting, don't get the 950. If you were to try to lighten a 950 pic in post to match the GL2, all you'd end up with is a pic with not-much color and little contrast. Been there.
P.S. I'm down on ebay. Last camcorder I got from there was "perfect" -- except for the ($400-to-repair) hot/dead pixels. Other than that ... And then there was the "perfect" collectors item phone I bought ... that didn't work. (In trash can 5 minutes after opening the box.) And then that "perfect" $500 VCR that worked for six hours ... before needing $450 in repairs. Sad but true. I have people telling me to buy minidisc recorders on there for $75. Ya, I need a MD. But I'm spending $375 for new rather than getting into a bidding war over some 5-year-old piece of junk that some scammer picked out of some dumpster.

Yes, the 900 or one of the better 1 ccd cams has better low light. Significantly? Probably not, not enough to be worth switching from your first choice, the 950, a fine and very usable cam. If l ow light is your concern, you want a significantly lower lux value. Don't mess around. Buy for low light. Buy the VX2000. A new cam for less than $2grand by and large isn't going to be worth a damn in LOW light, that's just the way it is these days.

Some info on 900/950:

www.bealecorner.com/trv900/index.html

... and then again, depending on how long you can afford to wait, the VX2100 is supposed to be an even better low-light performer...

Exactly!

If the VX2100 doesn't have any bugs (you never know), I believe it will be a big seller---based on the specs. Just too bad about the lack of 16:9. At least Century and Optex will be happy, though, with their current 16:9 adaptors---same prices; and they won't have to come up with modified models. :)



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http://www.dvfreak.com/mx5000ad.jpg

To give ya'll an idea of the relative low-light ablities of some of these cams, here's what I did. I captured some stills from some different cameras. The stills were all under the same low light.
I imported the jpeg into my editing program and then ran each one through a histogram scope to get its luminance (i.e. average brightness). The scale goes from "0" to "255", with 0 being blackest black and 255 being whitest white. Also, with the histogram you can see the *range* of values, in addition to the average. This range is indicative of the picture's contrast because it tells the darkest dark and the lightest light that is in the image. I have the "average" figure for each one but not the range. I'll go check the ranges, too, so you have a better idea of how the images look.

Here it is. Read 'em and weep.

1st VX2000 --- value of 99 for picture average, range of 21-175

2nd TRV7 --- 79 average, range of 5-164

3rd VX1000 --- 76, range of 0-171 [3 X 1/3" CCD]

4th GL2 --- 73, range of 18-137

5th TRV 900 --- 68, ranage of 0-150 [3 X 1/4" CCD]

6th TRV9 --- 64, range of 7-130 [All images above would be judged okay or better; ones below this would be considered "too dark" by the average viewer.]

7th PC100 --- 55, 16-102 [1 X 1/4" CCD]

8th TRV30 --- 50, 27-85 [1 X 1/4" CCD]

9th PC120 --- 47, 26-78 [1 X 1/4" CCD]

10th In LAST PLACE: TRV950 (?PDX10) --- 42, 21-74 [3X1/5"CCD]

Out of curiousity, I tried bringing the TRV950 up to the average
luminance of the VX2000 and the GL2 just to see what the range of values would be. Here 'tis:

Same as VX = 79-130
Same as GL2 = 55-107.

I was curious how the 950's sharpness compared to the GL2. Even when I boosted the 950's bightness, I still couldn't tell due to the lack of contrast. Appeared about the same from what I could see.

I know this seems to be an endless discussion for me but

GL1 - $950

TRV950 - $1200

Which would you go for...out of this?

I wouldn't pay that kind of money for either. Instead, I'd consider something else. ;)

I don't have any money for something else. I'm not a professional videographer, I don't need a camera thats the best at everything, I don't want a big one, I want a relitavely small one and these are the only ones in my price range along with the DV953 which has HORRIBLE low light so its not even a choice...at least these 2 have low light capabilites of what I have now.

Given the choice of those two and with no way out the TRV950 by a landslide. To hell with what i think. get your butt out and play with the 950 and see if you like it.

The GL1, while it was a good old camera s a bit rustic so far as resolution and features.

You should be asking this question next door in the TRV950 forum.

Okay, thx...I thought I'd continue my previous post instead of creating a new one...thats all

What happened to the VX2K for $1499? That is SUCH a better deal than any of the other cams.

GL

<<<-- Originally posted by George Loch : What happened to the VX2K for $1499? That is SUCH a better deal than any of the other cams.

GL -->>>

You know that and that's the way i feel as well but what counts is the person who is buying it. They have to appreciate the difference. the only way i knew for sure was good old fashioned "hands on". I tried every 3 chipper i could and I had a demo tape with me. I taped each a comparison at each oportunity.

What sold me was watching comparisons on my TV at home. I drove the wife nuts. I'd A/B each camera and shoot the same subject , same light at every oportunity.

If one retailer had a VX2K, GL1 and an XL1S , then that's what I would compare. I compared the 300U,VX2K/PD150, GL1, XL1S and TRV900. The VX2K was the clear winner. I actually fought that finding because i thought the XL1S looked "more cool".

I'm pretty sure that given the choice from scratch I'd feel the same way. I've rea;lly been happy with the Sony.