This adapter comes from Barrett Bilotta at XL1 Soultions (http://www.xl1solutions.com). His products were showcased in the Canon booth at NAB. He's sending us a unit for review; you'll see more about this on the Watchdog pretty soon. Don't want to buy through Ebay? He sells direct. And he gets an endorsement from DV Info.

I am looking to purchase a XL1s and I am just researching the different abilities of the camera, so I apologise for my ignorance.

I have obviously read about the abilities of the camera to shoot using Canon EF Lenses.

My questions are:

1"Can you use these lenses for filming or are they only usefull for taking digital stills with the camera.

2"If you can use these lenses for filming is there a problem with image shake like you get when you zoom out fully on basic set-ups"

3" If they can only be used for stills what is the quality like and what options do you have.

Thanks,
Dan

Dan,

You can use the EF lenses/adaptor for regular shooting. However, there is a multiplication factor of 7.2 which means a 100mm lens becomes a 720mm etc. This is great if you are shooting wildlife or surfing but can be a problem if you want to uses them in regular shooting situations.

Quality wise I borrowed an adapter from a friend and tried it with my 70-200/2.8L. I shot some surf footage and was totally stoked with the results. The shots were noticabley sharper than the 16x XL lens and at 500-1440 the focal length was awesome. Image shake wasn't a problem but a good tripod and fluid head are a must.

Many people here shoot wildlife with the EF lenses and swear by the 100-400 and a few the 35-350. None are by any means "cheap" alternatives especially once you include the cost of the adapter.

The bottom line is if you need extreme focal lengths then you can't go past the EF lenses and adapter. If you just want sharper glass for regular shooting then consider the 16x manual servo lens.

Using EF zoom lenses you will get shake even with the best tripod and head in a breeze over 10 mph. Lightly touching the camcorder will do the same. You may not even notice the shake in the viewfinder, but it's enough to be noticable at home on TV. It's just a function of the 7.2 magnification factor. The lenses are superb, however, and well worth the minor inconvenience.

I somehow find it hard to believe the claims on the adaptor... X2 magnification? It appears to be a mechanical adaptor without a relay or intermediate lens (as used by the mini35) and the image circle cast by a 35mm lens would still be the same, which is to say that it would be impossible to 'escape' the 7.2X magnification.
Unless a 16mm lens is used but from the website, it seems to claim only a x2 magnification for 35mm lenses.
someone please clarify.

Adrian

I'll encourage Barrett to register here and post a reply about how his adapters work.

Please do, Chris. I've seen his stuff on eBay and have wondered about it and it would be great to have him answer questions.

there is also a pl mount - xl-1 adapter which also has 2x magnification. and there are some sample shots that where very impressive, very good deep of field. thats possible with such a adapter ? i thought you need a special optical system like the mini35 to get sucha deep of field

Photos are now on the Watchdog (http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/index.php) under What's New. We should have the manufacturer posting here within a day or two.

I think Charles is correct Jeff...only focal plane manipulation is involved (and can sometimes be of interest for getting some zone out of focus) but is not a DOF adjusting system. Shift and tilt (scheimpfug adjust) is very well known in electronic projection systems too and is being used for focal plane correction if the image plane isn't ortogonal or symmetrical w.r.t. the systems optical axis

I use the XL1s and 100-400mm zoom lens to film wildlife and I am very impressed with the results. If you would like to see an example copy and paste "http://uk.geocities.com/diversandavocets/Avocet_Preening.mpg" (1.7 MB) into your browser address line and hit enter (as it is on a Geocities server you may need to try more than once to successfully download). It shows an Avocet preening and was filmed with the zoom at 400mm.

I have also filmed Rock Ptarmigan on Scottish montane plateaux where the wind rarely falls below 10 mph and have managed to capture lots of footage with no discernable camera shake. As Adrian said you need a good tripod and head to minimise shake and I wouldn't even consider filming while zooming in and out.

The stills produced by the XL1s because of their small size, no larger than a video grab, are only good for displaying on the internet (unless you want to print thumbnails) and although I have hardly used this function I don't notice any great difference between a photo and a good video grab.

That preening video was great quality.

If shake is an issue, look into Canon's line of image stabilizing EF lenses Not cheap but will fix that problem.

Adrian

I'm glad you've tried the 70-200/2.8L, because that's what I'm planning to use.

It's a weighty beast. Comes with its own collar for mounting to the tripod when using it with an SLR.

Which leads me to my point. Where do you mount? Lens, cam or both? I figure that the weight of the lens is not much different to that of the stock lens that comes with the XL1-s, but I'm wary of putting undue strain on the adaptor.

And what head/tripod combo did you use? (John, your thoughts on this would be appreciated)

who cares about built in image stabilization. the available software stabilizers work just as good, if not better. check out boris red(expensive) or dynapel's video stabilizer. both work quite well and remove any hint of instability. they won't work majic on horribly held footage tho'. That's up to you to not drink anything the night before that gives you the shakes today.

Nigel,

I chose the Mamfrotto 351MVB tripod legs and 516 video head after consulting other posts on this forum. It is not everyone's favourite combination, as you will see if you do a search, but I do not regret the choice.

To answer your other question, Manfrotto make a plong especially for the 516 head which is basically an extended version of the standard quick release plate. I use this when working with the Canon 100-400mm zoom and XL1s. One end connects to the lens collar mount and the other connects to the camera tripod mount (with the aid of a spacer as the respective mounts are not on the same plane). See the Optex site for info and prices.

Thanks Keith but if I am honest, I would have to admit that the quality owes everything to the equipment used and nothing to do with me. I am a complete amateur at this and a good day is when I remember to switch on the microphone.

Can anyone tell me about how long the battery lasts in the EF and if there is a rechargeable equivalent?
Thanks, Chris

John, thanks for the info...I'll certainly look into that!

Bill, check this (http://www.2d3.com/) out...for Premiere & AE. A cut-down version will be released with premiere pro

yeah....i saw that site last week. Looks pretty good. the biggest problem with any of these software stabilizers is how they handle the edges...zoom or crop. for my $$$, the Boris Red motion stabilizer works best, but, it's expensive. I have a fundamental resistance to anything from Adobe...don't much care for anything that acts/thinks "elitist".

The battery lasts a long time, for me, over a year with heavy use. I have never seen a rechargeable replacement for the 2CR5 lithium battery.

I have the Canon 70-200mm f2.8L IS Lens and wish to fit it on the Xl1s due to its depth of field control. Is there an adapter available to fit the lens on the camera?

Has anyone tried this?

Yes, there are several. Canon makes the EF XL Adapter and has info on their site. (http://www.canondv.com/xl1s/a_adapters.html) This adapter allows the Image Stabilization (IS) to still work.

Other adapter are available. You may want to read this thread (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11144) about a new adapter that has a few advantages with regard to image magnification.

This article on DoF (http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/optics/dofskinny.php) and how it relates to DV may be of interest also.

Robert,

A couple of posts relate to a setup like you're thinking of:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10639

Hi Robert,

The Canon EF adaptor is well worth it, it is solid and does not shimmy around at all...

One excellent lens to use with the EF adaptor is the Canon EF 28 - 135mm f3.5-5. IS USM lens. About $440 or so. A near 1000mm at full tele WITH Image Stabilization and a very sweet looking image for the price.

- don

Thanks Jeff, Many blessings to you for all your hard work at keeping up on this list. Chris

Thanks for the kind words, Chris.

Does anyone know how you would control the aperature on a Canon EF lens when using a mechanical adapter? Is the lens wide open by default?

I'm quite sure that the Canon EF Adapter facilitates electronic coupling of an EF lens to the XL1/XL1s. As such, you would use the iris control on the camera's body to control the iris, just as you would with the 16x Manual Servo lens or the 16x Auto lens in manual mode.

Hey Ken,

I was referring to an adapter like the mini 35 with the EF mount.

It is only controlled electronically. EF lenses do not have a manual aperture ring.

Jaime,
I don't believe you would use the Mini 35 with an EF adapter. The Mini 35 is designed to adapt the XL1S for use with 35mm prime film lenses which do not have servo-driven iris controls. You would run the iris from the lens barrel.

As in, 35mm motion picture lenses, quite a very different thing indeed from 35mm still photo lenses. Hope this helps,

And really sweet . . . right Chris?

jacques "@10 grand per prime" mersereau

Hi People,

Today was Christmas in July, I went out for the first time with my new 3X lens, and EOS 35-350. I saw in the image gallery a piece showing the 100- 400 in action that impressed me so much I had to buy my own lens for an upcoming trip to Africa.

I opted for the 35-350 instead, and love it!! I thought I would share my first day with you guys with some images.

How wide is the 3x lens, and how about a 2485mm lens, well look here. I bought my lens used which saved me a bundle, and they work great.

http://www.digitalcrossing.ca/ef-1.htm

Enjoy,

Michael

Great pictures. Im a big fan of the 3x Wideangle, but as yet have no experience with EOS lenses. Keep up the good work.

Michael, thanks for this comparison. It's just the sort of thing that's needed to demonstrate exactly what these lens variations mean in reality.

Very helpful indeed.

Second that one Nigel. I hope to se more of this kind of comparisons. Well done Michael, and have a nice trip to Africa.

I've just shot a short, and achieved good DOF using seven Zeiss prime lenses and the 35mm adapter. Here's a short montage of clips--look at the CU of the gun against the actor's legs--

http://www.finalcauseproductions.com/downloads/montage_web.wmv

Comments/Criticism welcome!

go take a look

http://www.digitalcrossing.ca/ef-1.htm

I want to fill most of frame with a subject that's about 5mm long

How will the above setup cope?

What alternatives are there, preferably still using the EF adapter?

Thanks

Gareth

Surely, I haven't asked a question that no-one knows the answer to!

Gareth

Well, the EF adapter is used primarily for extreme telephoto applications... see http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article58.php#ceos.

The 100mm macro does 1:1 on 35mm film. This means a 5mm line would be 5mm long on the negative. Enlarge the negative 4X to make a 4x6 inch print and the 5mm line is now 20mm in length.

The magnification factor of the XL1 chip is 7.2X The CCD in the XL1 is approximately 7.2 times smaller (depending on how you measure the chip, length, width, diag.)

The CCD on the XL1 is approximately 5mm in length. The 100macro should be able to fill the frame with your 5mm object. The final size will depend on the size screen the video is displayed on.

Gareth, If my math is correct that is about 1/5 of an inch. I use the standard 16 II with the 1.6x extender and 1, 2, 3, close up diopters for videoing insects. I can get an ant to fill the screen and the color and resolution is beautiful. Bob

Thanks everyone.

I used my setup for the sequence in the end and got some very good results. The subject was a possum shrimp.

Bob, for future reference what make diopters do you use and what are the differences with 1, 2 & 3?

Cheers

Gareth

For a low cost alternative, try a "closeup lens set" such as soffered by Tiffen, Hoya, etc. on the stanard lens. It might meet your needs. You will need a 72mm size. A set with a +1, +2, and +3 are commonly available for ~US$75 or so.
Canon and Century also offer the close-up adapters (called diopters), no doubt much higher optical quality, and a higher price as well.

Canon and Nikon make several two element diopters that are higher quality. They come in two different strengths. Canons end in D and Nikon's end in T. The corners are not as out of focus and overall noticeably sharper.

Thanks Don & Jeff.

I'm interested in the Canon Close Up Adapters (Diopters) but can't seem to find any UK based website that does them.

Any suggestions from your side of the water?

Gareth

B & H Photo & Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?) is very experienced in overseas shipments etc. They would be my first choice.

I use the EF adaptor extensively with my XL1s. I just wish that I did not have to loose the AF, Zoom, etc.

I understand that there was an older model of the EF Adaptor that was really powerful and it gave you choices.

IOWs, one could go manual, semi auto or completely auto.

Can anyone verify this? And if so... can they still be bought?

While I like the Manual control, I also like configuring my own customized settings