Just shot a video for a full wedding event last Saturday with my XM2.
When I came home and tried to rewind the tapes, a message says "eject tape" after about 5 seconds of rewinding, i put the tape back and the same thing occur, after the third time, i tried taki ng out the tape and to my horror my XM2, ate the tape and how long portion of the tape was crumpled up!.....

I used new tapes by panasonic....

any one had this expereince?????

ys

No, I've never had this problem. I think your cam has a head problem which needs to be looked at (and fixed) by Canon, unless the Pana tape is substandard.

You might be able to salvage the un-crumpled part of the tape, but don't put it back into the XM2 until it's been professionally serviced.

The most "saddening" thing is my camera has been to the service centre for the third time in less than a year, and everytime is due to head problem... and the warrenty is over soon, my fear is it may happen again after the warrenty period... and the repair will cost be a bomb.......

ys

Ah man... I really feel for you. It's a nightmare situation for anybody filming one off events. I hope you can recover the important stuff. The only thing I can remember happening to me is when I was filming the signing of the register, I thought I was recording when I was not and visa versa for about five minutes. It was not until I got home I realised the mistake so I am very cautious now.

But problems with the camera sometimes cannot be identified during the filming process.

What do others do when filming weddings as far as checking that you have everything recording ok? I cannot really stop half way through to check because I then muck the timecode up? Thoughts?

Ta

Steven

I have also been getting all too frequent remove the cassette or eject messages on my GL2. I rewound the tape on my other cam and put it back into the GL2 and it was then fine. It could be that the cannon is too sensetive to tape tension issues. I am not really sure though.

The best way to make sure you get everyting is to shoot with a minimum of 2 cameras. It is more unlikely to have 2 cameras go bad at the same time, and if one does you always have footage from the second camera to fall back on.

I recently did a wedding show here in Hampshire UK and we were one of two videography companies exhibiting. Although people did not mind paying extra for quality etc, they did mind about having two camera's following them around all day. They thought it would be like the BBC on their special day.

I see two arguments to the story and I see a benefit of having two camera's but I feel I can still produce good enough results using one camera. Although I do run around like a blue ass-fly all day. Maybe the argument is different across the other side of the pond.

Many thanks

Steve

Steven, the two camera's are really just for the ceremony.

For the ceremony, I like to have a stationary camera at or behind the alter (hidden if possible), to get the faces and vows without a lot of movement. Then I man the second and get the opposite angle (out of the other cameras frame) of the couple coming back down the isle. You just can't time that with one camera. Plus you have the added benefit of having the complete vows in one take with the addition of crowd reaction shots to intercut. It looks good in the final cut.

"Remove the Cassette". Twice now within 3 tapes. But it has now gone away . . hmmm .. I'm coming up to a year's worth with this cammie . .. maybe 100 miniDV tapes PLUS capture timings to through VEGAS. Okay some milage . . . this is worrying as I've got a shoot this Saturday . . . hmmm...

Grazie

How do you fix a tape that has been "eaten" by the cam? Just last week, my hi-8 cam had an error and forced the tape out, and some of the tape was hanging out of the cam. Now I have reason to believe the tape has been twisted 180 degrees, and after winding it by "manually" rewinding the tape back into the cassette, I don't know how to fix it. Should I take it apart w/ a screwdriver?

Also, how do I fix my camera from having these problems? It's about 5 or so years old now and I don't remember if it has ever had a head cleaning.

The best way to fix it is to cut out the twisted pard and splice it back together. IF you put it through a camera the way it is now is a 50/50 chance that it will get caught again. Once you have it spliced, make a dub of it right away and use the dub to edit with.

IF there is a very long section of tape that you think is twisted then you will probably have to take it apart and unthread the tape to see if it is twisted, then rewind it again.

Best NOT to run a splice over the heads, it could do major damage. MiniDV is not like the old 1/4" audio tape.

This has happened with my little Canon MV550i. After thoroughly searching for a reason I believe it to be a result of using different brands of tape. In my case, I was using Sony tapes exclusively and then I switched to TDK. The rewind issue started immediately. I thought it was the TDK tapes, so I went back to Sony and guess what, the rewind problem was still there.

There is a thread elsewhere on this forum about tapes. One contributer suggested that Sony tapes use a liquid lubricant and most other manufacturers use a dry lubricant. The poster suggests that when these two lubricants are mixed, a sludge forms on the heads which interferes with correct operation of the mechanism.

If this is the case, then the best recourse is to have the camera cleaned by Canon. The probability is that normal tape head cleaners won't do any good (I know the Panasonic one doesn't) since each manufacturer's cleaner is designed against their own tape.

Yow: I'd be very interested in hearing whether you used Sony tapes prior to the Panasonic ones.

Hi Jim,
For my case its super confusing..maybe after reading you can help me understand..
I used sony tapes when I FIRST BOUGHT the camera, that means there isnt any tape used pirior to that right? But the mosiac tiles appear after an hour of usage. I sent my camera to repair and canon service centre couldnt find the reason and couldnt repair it so that change a tape head for me. After which I use Pana and TDK tapes.. no problem.. till 8 months later I played a sony tape for downloading the video captured by a friend for editing pupose. on the second hour of playing the mosaic tiles appear, I sent it for repair they clean it and it seems okay.
AND FINALLY.... I did the wedding about 3 hours of tape recording .. when i brought home for editing i cant rewind try takiing the tape out and got it jammed the third time while trying to rewind it.. and I was still using Pana tapes.......

Its been the third day and my camera is still under servcing, and i am very sure that they couldnt fix my cam.. i wonder what are they going to do with this problem....

ys

Hmmm. I thought so. The old mixing tape brands/types thingy again.

http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

When i come to the problem when rewinding, and hit a bump like that, i put it on play, and rewind at the slower speed.

I have found that it is the changing of tape brand, the lubricants are different and they don't mix. They gum up the heads. So a cleaning when I see this happen usually fixes the problem.

COST? I sent my xl1s in for a look at, they replaced the head mechanism and did good cleaning. With my xl1s club (free) it cost me $269.00 plus shipping ($60.00) and got it back from the NJ service center in one week. Not bad.

There are options for using two cameras for redundancy without having two cameras following the wedding party around.

One option is to use a second, small camera as a tape deck and wire the camera to it via a firewire cable. That way you are recording on two tapes at once. You can rig a pack and wear the second camera on a belt if need be. The problem is you have to remember to turn it on when you are filming (oops, taping).

The second option is to use one of the firewire direct to hard disk rigs. Sure, they cost a lot but if you can't take a chance on losing footage then they may be the way to go.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jason Casey : IF there is a very long section of tape that you think is twisted then you will probably have to take it apart and unthread the tape to see if it is twisted, then rewind it again. -->>>

(I don't mean to make another thread of this one, but just a short question that is related to the topic:)

Is it safe to take the tape apart myself? Or should I get it done professionally?

The tape is a Hi8 tape, and in all honesty I dont think it's important enough to warrant a trip to a pro house. If it's possible to do on my own, I'd like to try it.

Not sure on Hi8 but if taking apart a VHS tape is anything to go by then this is a real nightmare. The little leavers inside the tape are a real bugger when trying to put it back together. Fixing the actual tape was not the problem.

Continuing the discussion regarding the operating of another camera. I tried this but I found it really hard work and time consuming on the day. The only time I would see this working is when you have another camera operator. I find it hard enough carrying tripods, cases around with you all day.

Do most other two camera operations have another camera operator? The problem with this is of course it pushes the price up and it depends if the customer wants to pay extra for the added benefit.

Go ahead and push the price up to the client. You are giving them more and they should expect to pay more. Don't forget to include the extra time to edit 2 cameras.

I think this is a good way to "educate" your customers. You can have a couple of packages - a single camera shoot that is less expensive, and spells out what they can expect from that (limitations, etc.) and a two camera shoot that spells out the benefits and reasons they might go for the extra cost. I think this is called "upselling." :)

And then you can advertise "Packages starting at $XXX.xx"

But I am serious about the educating the customers part. Too many people think that just because they have a camcorder and MovieMaker they can do a "good enough" job and don't give the professionals the credit they are due. So a little education goes a long way for all of us.

Of course right now I'm probably a bit closer to the "I have a camcorder and MovieMaker" than a real professional, as I am just getting started in this. But I see the same issues arising in web design where I am a professional...

my camera is back and the rewind works, but guess what.. now during PLAYBACK, mosaic tiles are all over whever there are fast movements played. The worst thing is the customer service keep accusing me of using old tapes whearas I am very sure I only used brand new 'just unwrapped tapes"..... and all they do is to do some clean up but when the camera is brought back it happens again....

what should I do?

yowsiang

I've had similar "symptoms" - this is no way MEANS that it is being caused by the SAME reason.

This is what I do: I FF and the REW. I'm now also considering in laying down BLACK timecode on all the tape length on all new tapes. I use SONY Premium tapes. Yes they are cheaper than, sometimes 1/3 of the more expensive tapes.

I really do understand that you are using NEW tapes. Apart from the FF and REW try using one of the "old" or previoulsy used tapes. See if this cures the problem.

Botom line here is that I've had these symptoms, but have addressed this situation by FF and REW, and I've had success. Okay. Now really look at the tiles and try and convincve yourself these actually DO happen in the exact same position. Load them into to any NLE and check out the TT where these are happeneing. Right this down on a piece of paper. Scrap this test. Restart, and recapture. Note the TT again where the Mosaic happens. Scrap and redo. If they do happen in exactly the postion, then yes - IMHO - I would say it is the tape at fault. Now, if the mosaic happens in different places then this points to the cammie OR the linkages into and onto your NLE.

The other thing is that this doesn't aquit the cammie from being the culprit. After all, something could have gone wrong on the original recording - yes? Now that's also a possibility. This would show that the recording procedure is going awry.

You see where I'm going with this?

Fast moving pixel problems haunted me about 2 months ago. doing the FF and REW appears to ave given me a at least an on the gorund solution. If this IS the case then all I can say it is a combination of the nature of miniDV, with its intrinsic need for exact mechanical fidelity; tapes that need to be in contact and in their own BEST condition and the whole route to and from the NLE being good enough for the process.

Look, we don't know how these tapes get stored. Are they too being looked after prior to our purchase? We don't know. As I understand it tapes SHOULD be stored on their edges. This I understand keeps the actual spooled tape "inline" with effect of graivty AND around the its own capstans. Storing tapes horizontally allows for the "potential" length of tape to form a very slight "helical" formation around the capstan. Then here we come and undo a NEW tape slip it into the gob of the cammie, and off we go! The cammie is now dealing with a lump of tape that has potentially an uneven "tension" do to this helical appearance of the tape. Now, I aint no tape technician, but this makes sense even to me. So, of we go and attempt to "use" this tape. The helical shape, of the wound tape inside the cassette, IMHO will present an uneven tension to the tape head. The tape could also be presenting an ever so slightly ANGLED interface with the head. Of course there must be some built in "tolerances" to allow for this. But if a whole box - say 5 miniDVs - had been stored in this "horizontal" position, then it will give you 5 hours of running WITH this effect. Okay, all this is oure conjecture on my part. All I'm doing is taking the same advice that is given for storing the wider and more robuster ANALOGUE big giant cousins of our beloved VHS tapes. You/I should also store these tapes on the Vertical edge and horizontally. Remeber, miniDV is mini because it is smaller. It also still a mechanical item. We need to apply all that we know to those things that are mechanical . . . miniturisation comes at a price . . . IMHO when getting to the "mechanicals" it becomes even more necessary. Bottom line here, IMHO if you want a robust system go full DV. Full DV tapes are bigger. the devices that deal with them are bigger and chunkier. The rollers and capstans and heads are larger. We all know of stories of people using full DV tapes time and time again. Heads not being cleaned at all. No tiles! This menas something. And yes, someone here will tell me they haven't had a problem with miniDV. Fine - for those of us who do and will - something NOT happenning isn't a full understanding of needing to rectify, after all, what is at least a very frustraing postion and maybe, at worst pissing off a client - yeah? This COULD lead to a trip to the lawyers!

Apologies if this has been discussed further up the thread here. If it hasn't and you haven't done this test - what have you got to loose but trying it out?

Oh nearly forgot! . . . . never ever LEAVE a tape in the cammie, engaged or not. Remove it at once! Put it in a box and store it vertically . . ;-)

Non of this may not be a cure. But the results I've had . . so far . . have . . . do pint in this general direction.

Regards,

Grazie

Gotten my camera back again and canon changed the entire drum head the second time, but i got rather upset when they told me that the next time I change this I would be charged even if its still under warrenty!.. isnt that rediculous?

Anyway I forgot to mention the same tape that has tiles and mosaics on it plays perfectly on a JVC very low end dv cam.......

Hopefully I would have no problem with my XM2 anymore.. at least for another 2 years please...

ys

Ah! . . "Anyway I forgot to mention the same tape that has tiles and mosaics on it plays perfectly on a JVC very low end dv cam......." this points to the cammie at least recording the footage correctly! That's a BIG YES! . . okay, now you also have a "fall-back" postion of knowing that you CAN play back on another miniDV player. This is also the case for my VidPro friend. He can also take very badly pixelated footage and put it into his miniDV/Full DV deck and he can load the stuff without pesky pixels!

I'm sure it is all down to tape tension . . . . but hey! A new Head?!? Can't be bad . .

Happy filming,

Grazie

Just a couple or thoughts. I never use our GL2s for RW, FF or editing but instead rely on a Sima tape rewinder. So far, no problems with the rewinder in over 1 year of use and no problems with the cameras. Also, I always use Sony Premium or Excellence tapes and have done so from day one. I also believe now that it is a good idea to unpack tapes (if that' s the right term) before using them. I found that most of our dropouts occured during the first and last minute of tape but that seems to be less of a problem now.

I'm also in the habit of slooowly and carefully sliding the tape in the camera and gently closing the compartment by squeezing the two sides together rather than pushing. I also try to make sure that the camera has fully completed closing the compartment before closing the cover. Call it an ounce of prevention or superstition.

With regard to taping live paid events with one camera. I don't think that's a good idea. We tape weddings and always use 2 cameras. I could not imagine explaining to the client why we didn't capture the ceremony because of a tape or camera failure.
Bob

I agree with everything you say Bob, apart from the tape rewinder. I have a VidPro chum has not had such a pleasurable experience ;-) . . But if it works for you, who am I to say.

The 2 camera thing? . . oh yesssss . . . absolutley!

I've learnt very recently that the actual cutting and gripping of the tape being placed into the cassette may create a problem.

Grazie

With myself operating on one camera I find that bad enough trying to get organised as weddings in the UK seem to quite fast paced and I would not have enough time to setup a second camera even if it was left running with no operator intervention.

I strongly feel that operating with two camera's would require two operators. Is that the feeling in all your experiences? Don't get me wrong, two camera's are a good thing as long as the customer does not mind having two people wandering around with camera's. In talking to customers at shows etc, many clients prefer only one camera so no huge intrusion on the day. Attitudes in other parts of the world maybe different so I can only comment on the UK perspective.

Many thanks

Steve

That is quite the same here in Singapore. There are times when two cameras are good say wedding dinner is a huge ballroom, but when come to chinese tea ceremony and church wedding, space will be a great concern, also extra camera needs extra crew that means the price would be higher which many of the couple would prefer to keep cost down.....

ys

. . oh . . again I got the wrong end of the stick here! I was under the impression all this 2 camera chat was about having the "safety-net" of having ANOTHER backup camera, just in case the first broke down . . . . typical of me . . . . Yeh . . extra crew extra money . . . . better product though! It's the way you come across at the intitial meeting in showing the value of a 2 camera crew that will convince them either way.

My first "Project" was to film 2 guys making a wedding video. Do I think it has been used by the people to convince a prospect to go with a 2 camera crew . . I'm not sure . . . . it's all in the pitch . . . it's all about educating your potential clients to the value of 2 cameramen - yeah?

Look this is sorta of topic . . but I thought I needed to spell it out . . happy days!

G

Aside from the obvious safety net of two cameras, the finished product will be much more compelling for your viewers. With good editing technique, its amazing how much better your productions will be. We show clients sample demos with cutaways, reaction shots, etc. and that is what they want. I believe in our neck of the woods that you are at a distinct competitive disadvantage if you don't use multiple cams. I also think it's much better if you're using matching cameras. You don't need multiple cams for an entire wedding but definately for the ceremony and optionally for the introductions and toasts. I know having a second shooter can be problematical for some...I'm fortunate that my wife is my camera 2 partner.
Bob

I would never, ever give a one cam wedding option to a customer. I always use at least two cams by myself. The paranoia of a defective cam is too great. One catch all cam running un-manned and one I operate manually is the only way I would think of doing a wedding. I have used three cams by myself at once, manually operating two main cams in the same area and the third as a catch all in the front of the church. It is a frenzied hassle packing up the equipment and lights after the ceremony and then racing to the reception, but it's worth it to me and the customer who wonders out loud where all the extra camera angles came from without the extra manpower, as we watch the finished product together.

Bill, just wondered, do you alway watch the video with your couple? I have and it is fun, probaby the fifth time i have watched it in total, but enjoy seeing and listening to their comments. It is good for the next job too.

But always wondered if I was steeling the privacy of the enjoyment from them. What are your feelings.

Some times the viewing is not with the couple, but with the parents who arranged the videotaping. I guess most of the weddings I have done I know either the parents or the couple; it depends on the relationship. It helps also to bring your own monitor. I have a 17" laptop and I set up a pair of Labtec exterior speakers at the viewing, showing it at the customer's home. Otherwise I run the risk of them watching it on a huge 10 year old 52" projection TV which turns your video into a fuzzy horror, depending on their set up. Viewing with the customer is fun but not mandatory, but it is always best to warn them of the downside of VHS copies played on huge projection TV's and recommend them to receive a DVD copy instead. I burn DVD copies as well as edit the whole video on my Powerbook using Final Cut Express. Editing on my set up is so much fun as well as rock steady reliable.

http://homepage.mac.com/bhardy3/PhotoAlbum34.html

I have the same exact problem. I try to rewind or fast forward, and when it kicks into "high gear" it stops, and I get "remove the cassette". I've not even had 20 tapes through this since I bought it last December. I only use the Panasonic 63PQ as well. To be honest, this cam has not been impressive to say the least. The vignetting on mine is HORRIBLE , and I've posted about both these issues before. My warranty is up on Dec. 20th I think, so I've got to send this thing off. I'm praying it's a completely different camera when I get it back.