I'm very excited about Steve's 4HDV, but we've heard nothing from anyone who has it and what they think.

Please post up, so those of us, who want to cut on FCP/Apple, can know what you think!

heath

Steve's plug in is a little different than a plugin in the traditional sense.

First of all it is a collection of shareware and freeware applications that Steve shows you where to go to get them. He does send you 2 small apps that need their names changed to "plugin" to the shareware apps. I am not clear what they do exactly and I am not sure they are required, but I did it anyway.

He has spent a considerable amount of time preparing a workflow for using these applications to import your HD1/HD10 footage into the mac.

In essence, you use these 4 external apps to capture then convert to files that Final Cut Pro - or any Mac based editing app for that matter - You create 2 different copies of the files, one is a DV file for editing in realtime in FCP, the other is a full resolution HD file you later point your timeline and project file to so you can render out a finished movie in HD. In other words, you do the work in DV, saving time in the edit session and then have the computer rebuild your project as you sleep or watch TV or.....

He is working very hard on methods to get this file back to the camera and DVHS deck and has a few suggestions, which many people have read about on this forum in other threads.

Also included in his package is a shooting guide - tips and tricks to get the most out of the cameras. I have not read this, so I can't expand on it any further.

It's a challenging package to install even with the step by step guide to downloading and installing. I have had some success with it, but as I am more comfortable with real time hardware solutions and have the luxury of operating a professional video production company, I chose to go with a KONA HD card. Even with nearly $12K in expenses so far, there are challenges too.

Others have emailed me with similar comments. I hope our new JumpStart Guide can shed some light and make it easier to accomplish. We are considering a how to section specifically on Steve's package.

There are new plugins or mini apps coming for the mac that will make editing our HD footage just as easy as Cineform makes for the PC guys. We will be showing in detail how to operate both those packages.

We will be showing a new mac package in the soon to be released JumpStart Guide.

Hope this helps

<<<-- Originally posted by Darren Kelly : I am not clear what they do exactly and I am not sure they are required, but I did it anyway. -->>>


The JVC file format for MPEG-2 is incompatible with Apple's MPEG-2. So while you can capture and demux on a Mac, you can't use the resulting MPEG-2 file with QT or FCP. HDVbridge solves this problem.

Likewise, while you can generate an SD MPEG-2 file on the Mac, you can't generate an HD MPEG-2 file. So HDVviaduct enables HD output.

OK -- you can spend $5000 on the Heuris HD encoder!

So without these plug-ins, it's no go on a Mac. (Although, as some have done you can use a PC to do the capture.)

If you spend $5000 on the Heuris encoder you can record back to D-VHS, but not to the camcorder.

Using the Womble MPEG2VCR with VPC you can encode for a recording to the camcorder, but not to D-VHS. I felt recording back the the camcorder was a must!

I do expect Apple and others to provide a DVHSCap like function that captures and converts to uncompressed video. Then you will edit with uncompressed video. The problem is that you will need a dual G5 to play video smoothly. And NO realtime FX. And Terabytes of storage on a RAID.

My goal was to make something that could be run on G3 or G4 with FCP v3 or v4. And I avoid uncompressed video. In fact, there is a 10X reduction in file size so you can move your proxy video and audio to a laptop. (Keep the MPEG-2 on a FW drive until your edit is done.)

Darron's right the 4HDV process has multiple steps. If you want simple, and if you have the money, buy a fast PC and buy Aspect HD. I've been using it for a couple of weeks and love it! There's fundamental advanced technology at work here. I don't expect anything like it for a Mac until FCP V5 or later.

<<<-- Originally posted by Darren Kelly :

We will be showing a new mac package in the soon to be released JumpStart Guide.
-->>>

It does for the mac what Cineform does for the PC.

Cheers

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : Using the Womble MPEG2VCR with VPC you can encode for a recording to the camcorder, but not to D-VHS. -->>>

I use Womble on a PC, and:

the resulting MPEG2-TS m2t file is then easily transferable to D-VHS using the cam's bundled software (it captures AND outputs back, either to camera or to D-VHS player. Mine is DH30000.)

Steve, do you know how to convert mpg into .m2t if mpg has been encoded with multi-channel sound?

I can encoded mpg with Premiere that outputs 5.1 channel Dolby - but then Womble does not like the audio stream and won't convert it into TS.

Seems like Womble doesn't understand anything but stereo sound stream.

Alternatives?

<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Raskin :

Steve, do you know how to convert mpg into .m2t if mpg has been encoded with multi-channel sound?

I can encoded mpg with Premiere that outputs 5.1 channel Dolby - but then Womble does not like the audio stream and won't convert it into TS.

Seems like Womble doesn't understand anything but stereo sound stream.

-->>>

I only use Womble to convert PS to TS. I encode with another Mac application in which my HDVviaduct plug-in is used. I think I am free to encode with AC3. BUT, that's stereo AC-3. Don't have any idea how to get 5.1 into AC-3.

Vegas does 5.1 and will encode it!

Being a die hard Apple user (tried PCs, had no luck), I'm dismayed to learn it may be another year to edit with this camera. To pay for the camera, I'm shooting projects with friends' XL-1 cameras! Even the guy helping me pay for the camera is getting irritated.

heath

<<Don't have any idea how to get 5.1 into AC-3.>>

A,pack, the utility that comes with DVDSP on the Mac will encode 5.1 into AC3.

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Being a die hard Apple user (tried PCs, had no luck), I'm dismayed to learn it may be another year to edit with this camera. To pay for the camera, I'm shooting projects with friends' XL-1 cameras! Even the guy helping me pay for the camera is getting irritated.

heath -->>>

if you are hoping for free I don't think so. You at least will have to buy a G5 and FCP v4.

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen: if you are hoping for free I don't think so. You at least will have to buy a G5 and FCP v4. -->>>

Got the G5.

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : Vegas does 5.1 and will encode it! -->>>

Yes, but will Vegas encode directly into the Transport stream m2t, or into the Program Stream mpg?

If it only outputs the 5.1 Dolby sound-multiplexed PS mpg, then my experience with similarly-encoded file from Premiere Pro is that Womble will *reject* it.

Alas, no way to get the Transport Stream and we are stuck.

Right?

If you are inputting a Program Stream and using Womble simply to convert from PS to TS -- it shouldn't even look at the encoding of the audio file.

But maybe it does.

Heath,

I have not successfully gotten the 4HDV to work. I've got a G4, 1 gig ram with OSX. It's just not working past the demuxing and I don't want to spend more cash on womble. But, I may have to...not to happy about it.

Anyone else having problems with 4HDV? Specifically the demuxing on OSX? If so, what workaround do you have - if any?

Chris

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : Heath,

Anyone else having problems with 4HDV? Specifically the demuxing on OSX? If so, what workaround do you have - if any?

Chris -->>>

As I remember, when you wrote asking for help a week ago, it looked as though you had "permissions" problem on your Mac that prevented the demuxer from running--or running correctly.

Instead of working through this problem with me, you said you were going to skip this step and use a PC program to demux. I never heard from you again.

If you want to use 4HDV -- I can help you fix what's wrong on your Mac.

Demuxing works fine. Also, Womble isn't required for editing.

I wonder if we really ARE a year or two ahead of the curve with this camera, as far as Apple is concerned. But it doesn't make sense, as too many major video camera manufacturers are going to use this HDV format. I think Apple, in their super secrecy, are developing something to support it.

...at least I hope so...

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : I wonder if we really ARE a year or two ahead of the curve with this camera, as far as Apple is concerned. heath -->>>

It took Apple about a year to support 24p.

BUT, DVFILM introduced a utility within a few months. It supported 24p with FCP.

It simply takes a big company about a year to introduce new technogy. (Think MPEG-4 in QT.)

And, remember we are a tiny minority compared to those who want, for example, HDCAM or DVCPRO HD support native in FCP. These products are already several years old.

Also, for Apple the goal is to sell MORE NEW hardware. So new software features tend to be synchronized with hardware releases. HDV is seen by JVC as a consumer/prosumer video format. This kind of person is likely to buy an iMac. So, ask yourself when a G5 iMac will appear.

Also, Microsoft is pushing WM9. And it looks like it is great for HD. Apple may want to release a version of iDVD that supports some kind of HDV on DVD. Pixlet?

So Apple must get hardware and multiple software engineering groups together.

Interesting note: about 75% of HDV buyers are LA "film makers" using the HD10. (Which goes against JVC intention that HDV is for consumers!!! But does match what we know about shooting with the HD10.) These are NOT personal productions. These folks can't wait for Apple. They have looming edit deadlines.

But, for those who don't have an HDV project that must be edited now, it may make sense to wait for Apple. Think NAB 2004. This is 1 year from the HD1/HD10 introduction.

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- Darron's right the 4HDV process has multiple steps. If you want simple, and if you have the money, buy a fast PC and buy Aspect HD. I've been using it for a couple of weeks and love it! There's fundamental advanced technology at work here. I don't expect anything like it for a Mac until FCP V5 or later. -->>>

I missed this quote earlier. Thanks Steve.

---

Regarding Pixlet (the current thread), the approach could be similar to that used by Aspect HD, which also incorporates a interim high quality (online) codec into HD production workflow. Pixlet however has only been demonstrated at half resolution (Jobs calls it HD/2). So we will have to wait and see what its performance is like with full resolution source material and the encoding speed.

Note: the half resolution demonstrated for Pixlet was 960x540 at 24p (i.e. half 1080p.) This is a great preview resolution and it looks awesome. However, lets look at the numbers to predict the performance for the JVC camera. The 960x540 pixels at 24p in 4:2:0 is 18.6MBytes/s (960x540x24x1.5[12bits per pixel]). JVC's 1280x720x30 in 4:2:0 is 41.4MBytes/s. So JVC's data would be about twice the load as the current Pixlet demos. This might mean full res. Pixlet is only a G5 experience. We'll have to wait and see.

<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : This might mean full res. Pixlet is only a G5 experience. We'll have to wait and see. -->>>

As part of my Aspect HD review I'm looking at Mac alternatives that use PCI cards. One inexpensive card requires a dual G5 because they need the high-speed PCI bus! So it's not just clock-speed or CPU type.

Those of us who had PowerBooks when Apple released FCP with real-time learned to read the "fine print" about what was really needed for RT. So when I hear about Pixlet, etc. -- I too tend to be a bit sceptical.

That's why I questioned you so closely about system requirements. And, I can say 4 streams works perfectly on a 2.8GHz with a RAID. Exactly what you guys claimed. Later today I'm going to move clips to the system drive and see if performance falls to 2 streams.

Panther comes out at 8 PM (EST?) on October 24th.

heath