There are definitely times when I could use a larger monitor when filming with my VX-2000. At one time I purchased a varizoom monitor to solve this problem, but I was very disappointed with the quality of the image. It was dim and if you got off axis at all, the picture was terrible. The battery was also a real brick. I ended up returning it to the store. Recently I have been looking at portable DVD players to solve this problem. I think some of these units have the characteristics that I need:
-good visual angle
-reasonable screen size
-battery operation for several hours
-relatively low price
-ability to use as a DVD player at shows, ...
-video input (this is the hardest feature to find!)
My thought is to mount one of these to my tripod, probably under the camera. Has anyone done anything similar? Is there a particular unit that you would recommend? Is there an alternative approach that you would recommend?

have you looked at the sony mini-dv walkman?

i have a dv-900, it is both a playback device and a spare screen for looking at what your shooting.

matthew

The GVD-900 from Sony would be a good solution, although it was expensive when it was shipping (>$1000 is my recollection). It doesn't appear that you can get these anymore, and the replacement is over $2000. A mini-DVD player at $300 seems like a better alternative if I can find one with the right capabilities.

i use a laptop running scenalyser thru firewire

supported on a manfrotto caddy

Cat. No.: 139 => Bogen code (USA only): 3145
VIDEO TRIPOD CADDY see bottom of page at

http://db.manfrotto.com/product/itemlist.php3?manufid=1&sectionid=4

a second user Pentium III 500 can be had for a few hundred

You can also grab lots of video via NTFS...

Thanks for the reply.

Can you tell me more about the Scenalyzer via Firewire? Do you need a laptop with Firewire built in or is this a PCMCIA plug-in? What speed processor and memory configuration do you need on the laptop. You made it sound like 500Mhz would work...

Do many of the small 7" or so portable DVD players have "inputs" for an incoming signal? If so- I don't see why they couldn't be used as a field monitor or ext desktop video device.

If you look at the specs, the resolution is pretty low on all those DVD players (only 240 vertical lines from what I've seen). Also, I have not seen one that has s-video input.

I have gone the laptop route, but am using a Mac Powerbook instead of a PC. There's a very nice shareware program called BTV Pro (http://www.bensoftware.com/btvpro.html) that will turn your laptop into a monitor. It will also capture directly to your hard drive and can even do timelapse recording. The main feature that attracted me to this program is the ability to scale the image size. I'm shooting anamorphic 16:9 with a PDX-10, and BTV Pro lets me view a full screen, full frame image in the correct proportions.

And that's another thing to consider... do the portable DVD players overscan? I'll bet they do...

If you look at the specs, the resolution is pretty low on all those DVD players (only 240 vertical lines from what I've seen). Also, I have not seen one that has s-video input.

I have gone the laptop route, but am using a Mac Powerbook instead of a PC. There's a very nice shareware program called BTV Pro (http://www.bensoftware.com/btvpro.html) that will turn your laptop into a monitor. It will also capture directly to your hard drive and can even do timelapse recording. The main feature that attracted me to this program is the ability to scale the image size. I'm shooting anamorphic 16:9 with a PDX-10, and BTV Pro lets me view a full screen, full frame image in the correct proportions.

And that's another thing to consider... do the portable DVD players overscan? I'll bet they do...

<<<-- Originally posted by Alan Christensen : Thanks for the reply.

Can you tell me more about the Scenalyzer via Firewire? Do you need a laptop with Firewire built in or is this a PCMCIA plug-in? What speed processor and memory configuration do you need on the laptop. You made it sound like 500Mhz would work... -->>>

a P3/500 should be fine, 256 ram is useful and if it doesnt have firewire, I recommend IBM 1394 Cardbus Card (it has the industry standard Texas chipset)

There are lots of apps which will give you scaleable monitor and video grabbing capablity, I just happen to like scenalyser (www.scenalyser.com), in addition to the essential video caddy for supporting your laptop on the tripod you will need a very specialist piece of equipment for outside daytime use......:)

Get along to your local grocer and ask for a cardboard box big enough to fit your laptop inside - when opened in the laidback L-shape configuration. Spray the inside with some matte noire car spray paint and voila you will be able to see your monitor in the brightest of conditions

Further if you get your laptop second user make sure the battery is in good form otherwise figure another 50-100 for a replacement. Also if you are just monitoring, arrange the power saving settings to disable the hard drive after a minute - that way your battery should give you about 4hr monitoring off a single charge..

Anyone know of a good portable DVD player or relatively cheap portable HD monitor, so we can make sure the whites aren't always blown out on this camera. I was looking at a couple portable DVD players with component video input and was thinking they could make a sufficient monitor in a pinch since their resolution is 1280x720.

ahh nevermind, found Alex Raskin's post on the truth of HD10 recording...guess there is no portable HD monitor solution

To make sure that your signal does not exceed the boundaries of digital video's lattitude, always check your image with Zebra and Vectorscope/Waveform in real time while recording.

Composite out is good enough for waveform, don't bother with HD thing (unless of course you have a Budget.)

Because these cams don't have Zebra (not 70, not 100...) then vectorscope/waveform is your only option.

Cheapest ones are actually *modified oscilloscopes* and they sell for over $1K new. I found that they are technically adequate.

Note that these devices are big and heavy. Portable ones are available at premium cost.

Review -- the FLUKE 123 ScopeMeter

Passing by the FLUKE booth at NAB `98 I spotted a "slightly smaller than a cigar-box" test instrument that looked like it would be useful for videographers. Now after working with FLUKE's Industrial ScopeMeter 123 my initial impression has been confirmed. At under a $1000, it provides the capabilities of both a digital multimeter and a dual channel oscilloscope. The multimeter can measure: VAC, VDC, VAC+VDC, resistance, capacitance, current, temperature, dB, Hz, and phase.

The later two are of special value for checking video and audio equipment. Two special features are available: "Connect-and-View" enables hands-off operation to measure and display the waveform of complex unknown signals.

I found the instrument to be of great value in working with audio signals. I could check audio level as dBm into 50 ohms, dBm into 600 ohms, dBV, as well as peak-to-peak and rms volts. Signal frequency could be measured as well. And for complex audio signals, the signal waveform was displayed on the FLUKE's backlit screen. I've been interested in creating more consistent audio levels over a production. So I played an edited tape and used the TrendPlot function to draw a graph -- over the video's duration -- of the minimum, average, and maximum audio levels.

The ScopeMeter also functions as a video waveform monitor. You can select the field and line to be displayed. I checked the levels of 75% and 100% white; the chroma levels and chroma amplitudes of the six color bars; pedestal; the chroma color burst; and horizontal sync depth.

My test tape was also played into a Tektronix waveform monitor as a validity check. Chart values have been decremented by 6IRE because the ScopeMeter measurements were slightly high. I suspect my jury-rigged 75 ohm termination resistor might have been the cause.

I've been thinking about getting a portable battery-operated
5" - 7" color CRT TV to use as an inexpensive field monitor, mostly to check exposure/color.
I've also been needing one of those newer, notebook-type
DVD players to show demo reels to prospective clients. Most of these units have A/V in.
Do you think I could skip getting the TV and use the porta-DVD
for both purposes? Or would an LCD screen not be adequate for judging exposure? Do these 7" DVD porta-players normally have
settings for contrast, hue, brightness, saturation? And how does
grainy footage show on an LCD screen? Worse than CRT?

Dave, I thought about getting one of the Audiovox portable DVDs, then decided aw heck, why lug around still another piece of gear, when I am already carrying a 15.2" LCD with a built-in DVD player. Otherwise known as a PowerBook. Hee hee. Oh yeah, it also does have Final Cut Pro on it. Such fun, a post-production suite in a briefcase. I can show a client an actual working cut in progress. Plus it's quite good for watching movies.

As for a little field monitor, I have been using one of those DelvCam 5.6" TFTs, it's nice and compact, it can be mounted on the camera like a studio viewfinder, and you can buy it as a package with 12-volt battery & charger and soft case. Great for fielld playback...it even has built-in speakers. LCD screens are not really calibrated for color and exposure, but then a cheap color TV is not going to be equal to a regular NTSC monitor either.

I did a search of all forums and couldn't find a
conclusive answer -

are the portable DVD players (a la Circuit City)
with the 5-7" screens of any use as a field
monitor?

I'm not super concerned with color & exposure
(well maybe about 80% concerned) as I am
with simple framing for shot selection -

opinions? real life stories?

how about moving this post to the
'General' for me...I'm not getting much action
here- Thanks

Actually the topic has been discussed before if you do a search or browse a bit...

<<<-- Scott Moore asked:

are the portable DVD players (a la Circuit City)
with the 5-7" screens of any use as a field
monitor?

-->>>

It would probably work. The only issues would be mounting it on your tripod or a mini-stand, and figuring out how to protect it from glare. You might try black foil wrap and masking (or gaffer) tape. I like the idea that the battery is internal to the player. It should also last longer since you are not playing a dvd. I assume that you have a composite video connection into the player.

That said, I use a 12 vdc Sony crt monitor which I purchased from Dave Riddle. Cost me $1500 but it comes with a transit case and hood and was calibrated at his facility. The phosphors are designed to SMPTE-C guidelines, so I don't have to wonder how the color will look in post-production. This has always bothered when I have tried using LCD monitors.

I've also thought about buying one if these. I figured it could work double duty to show people that I want to interview some of the work that I've done in the past so that their confort level with me would increase.

I've noticed that some of these DVD players display a 16x9 aspect ratio, I am hoping that it would be easier to focus and get a better idea of what the final product would like when shooting in 16x9 on my XL1s.


I know that Target has them for sale, and they have a great return policy, so that if it doesn't work like I hope, I can bring it back.

I have a 2 year old portable panasonic DVD player and have not been able to successfully use it as a monitor with my XL1s

This may be a foolish question, but as I can't yet try it in the meantime I'd rather ask.

One thing I am planning to buy next January, for my documentary setup, is a 7" LCD monitor.

The one I had my mind on was the Panasonic TC-7WMS1, which except for the lack of underscan seems quite interesting for the job. It's $465 from B&H.

But another unit got me thinking: Polaroid's PDV-0700 DVD player. It also carries a 7" LCD screen and can do other jobs too, like playing a CD or DVD. All that for about $200.

Specs are nowhere to be found, such as contrast data, etc. But it's a device that might deserve a try.

Has anyone used this or any other portable DVD player for that task?



Carlos

Carlos, try a search; this exact topic comes up regularly. IIRC the general consensus is that these screens are rather low resolution, and they only offer composite video instead of s-video.

Here are a few threads about small LCD screens:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36485
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35232
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35821
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30676

<<<-- Originally posted by Boyd Ostroff : Carlos, try a search; this exact topic comes up regularly. IIRC the general consensus is that these screens are rather low resolution, and they only offer composite video instead of s-video.

Here are a few threads about small LCD screens:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36485
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35232
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35821
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30676 -->>>

Sorry and thanks for the URLs. I am aware of most of the shortcomings, and I will try them when I visit B&H.

Thanks!


Carlos

1) OK., it seems clear that the "DVD portable path" is not a good one.

2) In spite of the name, the Panasonic 7" monitor seems not to be up to the monitoring task with just 240 horizontal lines.

3) The options left seem to be the Xenarc 700YV and the Lilliput 619GL-70NP. These two seem to be the only higher definition types, even if Lilliput also makes a 8" monitor which is 1440000 pixels. No other 7" models at Lilliput's site are 1152000 pixels types.

4) The Lilliput is slightly cheaper and there seems to be several people using them in this forum, and no one seems to be using the Xenarc.

5) How the Xenarc handles the 4:3 in its 16:9 screen is a mystery. If it's really switchable between the two that would justify the extra money they cost.

6) Which is the best way to secure these monitors is also debatable, and Nebtek accessories are certainly not cheap.

7) Xenarc provides an "ultra high brightness enhancement option":

http://www.xenarcdirect.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=UltraBright

Expensive though, and I am not sure if a hood won't do the same for much less money.

Any comments?


Carlos

Carlos,
I did get the Lilliput 619GL-70NP monitor and I returned it. Mainly because it was just too big! The XL2 is a big unit anyway and to add a 7" monitor on top and also have a battery back and cables just seemed like too much for my handheld stuff. The quality on the monitor was okay but the image looked too soft and I found I could not focus any better with it than I can with the 2" EVF. So I opted to return it. Your mileage may very but I was not happy with it.

In addition the fact that zebra patterns do not show up on the external video out makes it difficult to see if you are overexposed in certain shots. That meant I needed to look at the 2" LCD anyway.

Sorry for the sad news. But it might still work for you depending on what your specific needs are.

Thanks!
Marty

i just bought a 7 inch portable dvd palyer for use as a filed monitor.
i understand that its not going to b color accurate or anything, but im shooting 16x9 on a gl1 and need a widescreen for framing purposes.
now, all i need is a wire that will run from my cam to the dvd player to make it work.
anybody know the name of teh wire, or where i can get one?
thanks in advance.

That will depend completely on the DVD player that you bought. Does it even have video input? Many do not. Assuming that it does, you would probably need a cable with a male RCA plug for the composite output of your camera, and whatever sort of plug the DVD player has on the other end.

Some consumer devices like that use a stereo 1/8" miniplug to carry both the composite video and mono audio. Look at your owners manual for the DVD player, it should have the info you need.

yeah the dvd player has the video input option.
it looks like they are both mini-pin. the video in/out on the gl1 is the samesize as the video in/out on the dvd.
i checked the owners manual and have found nothing about it, even though it states on teh box that its compatible with any video input source.
the model is polaroid pdm-0722.
let me know what you think and thanks thus far.

The specs say it's just composite video. I'm not familiar with the GL-2, but an RCA connector is pretty standard for composite. However, like I said, some cameras try to save space and use a 1/8" stereo mini-plug to combine audio and video. I don't think this is standardized, some put mono audio on one channel and video on the other. Others (like my Sony PDX-10) have a special adaptor that breaks out into L and R audio plus video with 3 connectors.

If the DVD player and the camera both have 1/8" miniplugs then I'd suggest just getting a stereo cable with a male 1/8" stereo miniplug on both ends, plug them in and see what happens. I don't think this can damage anything, but do it at your own risk because I don't have any experience with either your camera or DVD player...

I use the same setup that you are talking about. I have a 10.2" portable DVD player and use it all the time as a monitor with my GL2. What I use is the cables supplied with the GL2 and the DVD player and conect them with an adapter from Radio Shack http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=274-898

I hope this works.

LeEarl

wow. that radio shack coupler was EXACTLY what i needed.
it works like a charm.
thanks for your help, youve really saved the day.

What type of DVD Player are ya'll using?
~Matt

Jason,
I use a portable DVD player for 16:9 framing with my XL2. I used the same cable that came with the portable DVD player which connects the DVD to a TV. Mine has a 'monitor mode' which when activated accepts (pulls) video over that cable from a device instead of transmitting (pushing) video to a TV.

The cable that came with mine has a yellow RCA male plug on one end to attach to the TV (or camcorder), and a stereo mini-plug to attach to the portable DVD player.

The trick on mine is to figure out (and remember) the series of keystrokes to force the DVD player into the 'monitor mode'. Works great though and provides a good mechanism for showing off footage at locations other than my place.

just bought a ADVUEU PD710 Portable DVD Player w/ 7" 16:9 LCD Monitor

need a sun hood for it.

i found a HOODMAN sun hood for the panasonic 7" lcd monitor
but i'm not sure if it will work.

heres a thought, is it possible to make one?

thanks

Hey guys.

I'm currently looking for field monitoring options that will allow me to obtain better focus when using 35mm adapters and jib/crane shots.

I've heard of people using portable dvd players as a solution. The ideal player would have a high resolution in order to assist in achieving focus when using 35mm lenses. In addition, being able to mount the player to the camera upside down (or flip the image vertically and horizontally) would be advantageous.

I've narrowed my choices down to two options.

The first is the best protable DVD player I could find.
The Philips PET1000:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Philips_PET1...2.html?tag=nav

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...2107-9667041?%

It is renowned for its superior image quality. However, I'm not sure how I'd mount it or deal with the upside down and flipped image.

Next are Lilliput car monitors I've found on ebay.
Lilliput 8 inch car monitor:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Lilliput-8-Touch-Screen-TFT-LCD-car-VGA-Monitor_W0QQitemZ8753982880QQcategoryZ3698QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

More here:
http://www.mp3car.com/store/advanced...words=lilliput

The screen is a touchscreen, but the seller claims high resolution (up to 1024 x 768), 4:3 display (i wonder if I could use letterbox also).
Again, I'm not sure what my screen flip and reversal options are.


Any advice would be appreciated. Has anyone used devices such as these for monitoring? Any issues with the image quality or flipping features?

Thanks a lot.

Hi Layi

Check out the Lenco DVP1022.

www.lenco-audiovideo.com/index2.php?lang=en

I just bought one.It has a 480 lines resolution, an aspect ratio switch 4:3letterbox or 16:9 widescreen, flip and a built in battery pack!
I hooked it up to my DVX100 and the image is bright and sharp enough for manual focussing.

Watch out for resolution though. Most of the small LCD A/V screens only have a vertical res of 234 lines, and that's insufficient when you want to us manual focus. At least, that's my experience.

Hope this helps. i'm not sure if you can get Lenco gear in the US though.

Thanks Piet! I'll check it out.

One more thing, does it flip vertically AND horizontally? Thanks

Only vertically, I'm afraid.

I honestly couldn't find any external LCD screen that supports mirror mode.

Usually the camera can do it, but only for the on-board LCD.
It does not output to the video out, unfortunately.


Piet

I could be wrong here, but inverted mode (rotated 180 degrees) is exactly what you need no? My cheapo DVD player does this just fine.

Dennis, we're also looking for a DVD player with high resolution so we can properly focus the image, something the el cheapo models lack.

dennis... the image from the adapters is flipped upside down and is inverted.. so if you want a true image you would have to have a monitor which will perform an x and y flip

Ok fellas. I like the little think tank we have going on here. I believe I've found a solution. It's the Lilliput 809GL-80NP.

Info here:
http://www.lilliputuk.com/productinfo.php?product=22

Purchase here:
http://www.mp3car.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=42

and here:
http://www.case-mod.com/store/lilliput-809gl80npct-lcd-touch-screen-vga-monitor-charcoal-p-1206.html?src=fr

and here:
http://www.translinks.com/touch_screen.htm

I like this device since it's meant for cars and not film makers. Hence, it's cheap and still has some of the features we need. It has a mirror mode AND vertical flip (Some people use this as a rear view mirror) allowing us to flip the image when using 35mm adapters.

It has high resolution so we should be able to obtain sharp focus.
(1024 x 768 dots - Higher than DV resolution and the best I've seen in an LCD)

Let me know what you think.

To undo a 180 degree rotation, you flip, then you mirror. It's the same thing.

Thats why running your camera upside down (which I do) results in the correct orientation of video when captured. You'll also find in your NLE that rotating 180 has the same effect as flip and mirror.

Many portable DVD players have a "reverse" button, as mine does, which rotate the image 180 degrees to allow operation of the unit upside down. Given my GS400's propensity to allways right the LCD image, this is the only way I can monitor an upright image.

Try it!

This is 800x480, $189, 16:9/4:3 switchable, but no S-video input: http://www.mp3playerstore.com/stuff_you_need/special/IN-700VG.htm

You got it 200% right Dennis.
The reverse function simply rotates 180 degrees, and that's what you need if you want to use a 35mm adapter. So the image flips both vertically and horizontally in that case. Sorry for the confusion.

Piet

I have seen LCD's that have the same v/a input for PS and Xbox, but I am wondering if there is a way to hack that and come out with RCA inputs?

ive rigged an xbox portable monitor for rca input

I'm looking for an LCD screen as wel. Currently this one seems very interesting to me

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-7-Super-TOUCH-SCREEN-TFT-Car-LCD-XVGA-VGA-PC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38650QQitemZ8033632431QQrdZ1

It has a native res of 800x480. Right about perfect for NTSC, but I'm living in a PAL country so I should actually go for 800x600. But screens with this resolution are 4:3. So if I letterbox to 16:9 on that one, I'm just not using 120 lines so I might as wel buy the native 16:9 800x480 one...
Did anyone in a PAL country come to the same conclusion? Or is there something wrong in my reasoning.

cheers!

This looks good with 16:9 and S-video input! Remove the touchscreen, and you're set. How do you know it's 800x480 native? I don't see that in the listing.