(For purely legal purposes, naturally...)

I'm interested in capturing a few brief sequences from some DVDs for research/academic purposes, but the copy protection seems to work fairly well: When I try to capture the content through my Canopus DVStorm, the captured clip comes out mostly gray.

Has anyone had success defeating the DVD copy protection? Need I necessarily use the fabled DeCSS to crack the data stream, or is there an easier way?

I have access to an old DVRex system. I understand that copy protection wasn't implemented back when this system was made. Will this work to capture DVDs?

Robert, your old Rex does not have the Macrovision detection feature that Storm does. Hope this answers your question,

For the last couple of years I've been battling the fact that I can pass a DVD player's signal through my DSR-30 deck and into the G4, work with the footage in Final Cut Pro and send the edited footage back out through the deck...but the deck would not record the signal going in or coming out. None of my DV devices would record from the DV. I just assumed this to be advanced copy protection circuitry within the deck to keep us from making digital copies of DVD's, a noble enough idea but a pain for me (I was just trying to master my demo reel using footage I've shot that have ended up on commercial DVD's, honest).

Recently I discovered that I owned a box that would make it all happen, a Panasonic WJ-AVE5 switcher unit. Cost about $250 on eBay, nominally for simple A-B switching and basic transitions, wipes dissolves etc. Sort of an old school device, but I was delighted to find that passing the DVD player through the switcher (SVHS jacks of course) and into the DV deck fooled the deck into allowing the signal! Much rejoicing.

I'm sure there are other similar units out there that do the same thing. Hopefully this isn't too delicate a subject gray-area-wise...I'm sure Chris will yank this post if it crosses the line into legal limbo!

I would suggest getting the signal digitally of a DVD disc for
best quality, if that is a concern. There are numerous ways
to achieve this. And do only use it when it is legal.

Hi Rob,

You say there are numerous ways to do this. I only know of one, and I've never actually tried it.

The way that I know of is to download DeCSS, which nabs DVD video clips and turns them into .MPG files. I believe this works in Microsoft Windows.

What other ways are there? And for those who have used DeCSS, is this the easy way to go about it?

DeCSS is a low level approach. It only decrypts a file. On a DVD
video is stored in MPEG2 system files (.VOB). These files contain
numerous streams: one or more audio streams, one or more
video streams, one or more subtitle streams etc. After you decrypt
such a file you need to de-mux (split) the file into its basic
streams.

After this you get files like .AC3 (dolby digital sound), .M2V
(mpeg2 video -> can have a different extension) etc.. This
requires more labour work than other solution. There are
programs around (no, I don't know what they are called
since I've never used these) that do all this in one go for
you. This saves time and hassle....

I suggest looking at the following sites to gather information
and some programs:

http://doom9.org/ (read the guides here first)
http://apachez.net/

Good luck

Considering that I know Robert K S personally and have met him on several occasions, and since I know him to be a fine, upstanding young man who wouldn't think of attempting to defeat Macrovision for ill-gotten purposes, I consider this thread to be a legitimate topic... but of course Charles is absolutely correct otherwise!

;-)

The new Canopus ADVC-100 analog/digital converter has an operating mode which ignores Macrovision, if that helps.

Maybe someone can clarify what the levels of copy protection are--I know that Macrovision causes the variable darkening-of-the-screen business, but what is the circuitry called that prevents the DV decks from recording any signal at all (they go into "record inhibit" mode? I had in the past been able to knock out the Macrovision but still couldn't record...

If you put an analog source into a DV camera I think it only
checks for macrovision. If it is a digital (DV) source though, I
think it can have copyright and generation control in the stream
too (not sure though)....

On DVDs you have four layers of protection:

1. region code. A disc should/is only allowed to play
in a certain region code (1=US, 2=europe etc.)
2. To access data on a DVD disc you need to authenticate
yourself through a publick / private key kind of algorithm
3. Data on the disc is encrypted using CSS (Content Scrambling
System). This works with company keys to decrypt the file
stream (each players company has its own key)
4. Macrovision. A bit in the MPEG2 system stream withing the
VOB file can indicate that the system should output a
macrovision compliant signal.

All DVD players SHOULD implement these security measures
(you cannot make a DVD player without implementing 2 & 3
at least)

I hope someone else has the analog knowledge to your
question.

OK, here's a related problem, not involving digital/DVD sources. Attempting to dub clips from VHS movies (strictly for internal training use, and these were legitimately purchased or rented movies, but it was totally impractical to use the tapes in the presentation, hence the copy attempt) I was feeding the signal into my Elura to first create a digital tape to be captured in FCP and converted to AVI files to drop into PowerPoint. The Elura would shut down with the "Recording Restricted" message. No evidence of Macrovision's variable darkening scheme. Then tried making a VHS dub of the VHS tape (yes, i know, YUKKK! but the ultimate image quality of the final file would be even lower anyway, so let it be) to see if whatever copy-protection signal would not get recorded, but still got the shutoff. This was with Panasonic AG decks marked "For Commercial Use Only" and I have been able to dub from one to the other (in VHS and S-VHS) just fine, since these are supposedly Macrovision-free and otherwise copy-protection-free. What is going on here?

BTW, I was looking to digitize little bitty one-liners from movies:
"Show me the money" from Jerry Maguire, "Hey Lil, do we serve water in this bar?" from Coyote Ugly, "I gotta get me one o'these" from Independence Day, the fake orgasm scene from When Harry Met Sally etc.

Ironically, I have been able to record directly from a DVD player into the Elura from commercial disks of Hollywood movies, and have had no problem.

Your little Elura defeated DVD copy protection?

I haven't tried doing the same with my XL1S. I didn't think it would work. Will try now...

Nope, doesn't work. "COPYRIGHT PROTECTED DUBBING RESTRICTED."

Can't say I tried every disk, maybe the ones I tried weren't copy protected in that fashion (but I think they had Macrovision cuz I couldn't even pass the signal thru a VCR--which I wanted to do simply due to the TV not having enough input jacks and not wanting to keep unplugging to change sources--I kept getting the variable darkening and blurring).

Will have to try more disks to know for sure.

That little Elura is one handy gadget-- I use it to digitize promo tapes and aircheck tapes to be captured on my Mac in the absence of an analog breakout box (of course this takes twice as long as directly inputting the analog tape deck into the Mac thru a B/O box). I also use it to run around in the building to playback draft cuts to the clients without having to drag them down to my "grotto," and even to playback finals thru a full size TV in a conference room when I am interested in not degrading the quality by pulling a VHS dub and I don't have time to burn a DVD (and "loan" the room a DVD player). Plus I use it to pre-stripe blank tapes (which the old XL1 won't do cuz they "omitted" analog VCR recording function). I even have used it to digitize sound from analog audio tapes. It is my usual DV capture source for my NLE, I can keep it plugged into the Firewire and work while I leave the XL1 ready to run'n'gun at a moment's notice...to say nothing of the fact that the Elura takes up no space on my crowded edit desk unlike the XL.

Oh yeah, and don't forget, it is also a camera, so there's my spare cam/safety cam and B-roll/cutaway/reaction shot/stealthcam while I am shooting on location with the XL1. It is the size of a Walkman and weighs as much as a can of beer (without the extended battery and docking pod) and can be carried into a crowded nightclub or event as easily as a digistillcam. And it acquires shockingly good footage for a 1/4" single chip cam.

Still gotta figure out how to get clips off these movies without getting that pesky "restricted" message.

Thanks, Chris, for the heads-up; the DVRex did indeed help me to capture the clips I needed from DVD.

there's a little utility called DVDGenie available. A google search will probably find it.

Your little Elura defeated DVD copy protection?

Not on most of them, I have sadly discovered...ironically the ones with the sternest-toned warnings about "licensed only for home use and everything is prohibited" had the least copy protection.

Now to try the old Panasonic A/V mixer as Charles suggested. If that doesn't work out, maybe one of those "Video Stabilizers" I see on eBay.

We've been selling a cheap $100 stabilizer from Sima the SCC. It works very well on removing copy guard form VHS and DVDs.

Gary

The graphics guy,

The reason your industrial Panasonic decks duped the Macrovision tape is simple. Macrovision puts five squares in the vertical interval bar of the NTSC image. Those five squares do two things. First they come on at full brightness, tricking the recording VCR's automatic video gain circuit into thinking that the picture is "too bright" and to "turn it down", thus you end up with a VERY dark image. Then after 30 seconds or so of that, the Macrovision signal takes those 5 squares and starts flashing them on/off/on/off/on/off for another 30 seconds or so and then repeats. This tricks the AGC circuit into constantly and quickly turning the video level up and down and up and down, resulting in the alternating light/dark video. The theory here is that ONE of these two evils will trick most any VCR on the market. (Although back in the day I found it quite easy to simply order the repair manual and solder in an outboard mounted potentiometer in place of the AGC circuit on the board. All that is needed is the circuit board schematics. And yes, this was for legal viewing of tapes, for not all monitors, including mine, were immune to Macrovision's signal when it first came out.)

If you have an ancient television that has a manual "vertical hold" (remember that?), you can play a Macrovision encoded tape and carefully alter the vertical hold control on the tv and bring the vertical interval bar (sort of like a frameline) down into the picture and see the Macrovision signal in pure form.

With VHS/S-VHS, the AGC circuit is before the recording and the playback is without any form of video control. This is what Macrovision was based around. This is also why LaserDiscs and Betamax could never use Macrovision, for their AGC circuits were placed AFTER the playback circuit. Thus, if you have a Betamax tape with Macrovision, you wouldn't be able to play it without those effects.

So getting back to your point, the reason why your industrial Panasonic decks duped the tapes is because those are commonly set up to mate with each other and there is no AGC circuit. These are also basically the same VCR design/circuit that is used in professional duplication houses, so a manual video level control was a necessity in order to make the Macrovision tapes in the first place. The bad news is that even if you took a duped tape on that setup and tried to dupe it at home or into the computer, the Macrovision signal will still be there waiting to attack.

Now steadichupap posted that he bought a Panasonic 2 channel WJ-AVE5 "video mixer". I also have one of these. It came out in the early 1990s as an alternative (and substantially cheaper) solution to genlocking video signals for A/B roll editing. What the units does is completely ignore whatever data is in the vertical interval bar, and re-create it digitally. This allows one input to be off by any amount from the other signal and when switched, there will not be a "roll bar", like what happens when you switch tv channels on some televisions (where the "frameline" rolls up to the top of the screen quickly). An unintentional benefit of this is that it completely strips Macrovision from the signal. Plus, you have a freshly generated vertical interval bar, which generally produces better dupes on that aspect alone (especially when you dupe a tape that is not an original to begin with). Beware though that if you have closed-captioning, the WJ-AVE5 will strip it too, since the CC coding lies in the vertical interval bar.

Hope that helps clear a few things up.

(BTW videoguys, "Copy Guard" has not been used since the early 80's. It was a highly ineffective system designed to create uncontrollable rolling of the video signal and although you are obviously talking about Macrovision in the post above, using the term "copy guard" is actually a trade name for a very old and outdated product.)

Wow! Thanks for an amazingly clear and detailed explanation. Now, having seen that, I decided to try taking a page out of steadichupap's book, and dug out my Panasonic WJ-MX10 (basically the same thing, a little cheaper version), remembering how it enabled me to mix an A-B roll without needing a genlock or Time Base Corrector, and now I know why. Brilliant, guys! I haven't used this thing since going NLE anyway, but now it is useful again. So far, it works fine on DVDs, I'm sure it will be equally fine on VHS tapes.
Cheers!

Hmmm...a couple of years ago...you could buy several different models of DVD players that allowed you to turn off the Macrovision protection. Apex 600 was one of these models that allowed you to turn off the Macrovision protection.

I know that there are still a number of these DVD players floating around...whether or not anyone wants to part with them is a different story...

Most players still can. Sometimes they need to "patched"
by a shop that can do it, sometimes they need a firmware
change and other times it is just a couple of codes you need
to enter.... Just for your information.

I was (and still am) having a great deal of trouble with my ATI All in Wonder Radeon, one of the problems being DVD playback (AC-# sound SPDIF out specifically). Anyways, $60 in tech support calls later, ATI suggested I use a win2k beta version of the drivers for the card and I found that macrovision everything worked EXCEPT the macrovision. The macrovision "device" showed up as "uknown device" in the device manager, but the DVD and AC-3 audio played back with pristine clarity. I would never suggest someone buy this card, but if you happen to own one, the driver set is W2K-755-010523B and was (and may still be) available on ATI's support site.

Secondly, I made some shorts a few months ago and I managed to do exactly what you are trying to do with little to no difficulty. The way I did it was to download divx copies of movies I LEGALLY owned and then chopped them up in an NLE program on the computer.

-Cocobutt

I was having issues capturing from a macrovisioned VHS movie when capturing with StormVideo, I would get the audio with mostly gray video. I then analog captured via s-video in Premiere6 and I no longer have trouble with MV. I have a brand new StormSE and the 1.5 driver. It's as if Premiere6 doesn't have the MV detection enabled in it's capture driver.

just a thought.

BDOG