I received an email from a client last night... who's wedding was in June 2008. She loved the video but there is one shot of her during the preparations without makeup that bothers her because she has 'bad skin'. I totally understand her self consciousness and sympathise with her feelings.

BUT her wedding was 9 months ago and she has had her DVD for 6 months or longer. I gave her a review of the day online to watch, which contains this shot that she doesn't like and she never said a word and this was before I mailed the final DVDs. She wants it taken out. I would have to redownload the tapes as I have erased them from my HD. I do have the edited files saved still, so I'd be a matter of matching everything back up again.

She did tell me she's willing to pay, but I have never run into this before and have no clue what to charge her. I feel bad because I really liked working with them, but I am not going to do it for free because there is going to be several hours of work involved here because she waited so long to ask about it and my time is valuable. All that being said... what is a normal rate per hour to charge for a re-edit? Any help or advice here would be very much appreciated!

If it's that small an adjustment then i'd do it for nothing, most of the time will be spent rendering when you're not even at the pc.
She'll think you're a lovely person etc etc for doing it for nothing, then she'll tell her friends how nice you are blah blah blah, all this could mean more work.

Paul.

Paul, Dawn mentioned that she would have to capture the tapes again and it would be several hours of work. It won't just be rendering time.

Anyway, around here I get $65 per hour for editing. Maybe your time is more valuable, maybe less. I'd tell her exactly how much of your time it will take and how much your time costs. I know how these projects grow, so I wouldn't do it for less than $300.

When quoting jobs like these I have a rate for editing, rather it is a re-edit or not, and then the discounted rate for when I don't need to be at the computer, but the system is tied up (i.e. rendering). I would just estimate the amount of time based on your own rate, which you would figure out yourself based on expenses and what you feel your time is worth.

If you haven't calculated your post production rate, I would suggest figuring it out now. That way you can quickly and confidently quote a price the next time something like this comes up.

Thanks guys for your input. I love this forum for the support and guidance it provides.

Paul - you are right... if it was just a quick fix and rendering, I'd do it for nothing because of the relationship I had with this couple.

BUT it is going to take a long time and I am a little irritated that I am finding out about this now. I just dumped the video from my hard drive a month or 2 ago and thank goodness I kept the Vegas files. But I have never done the recatpure and tried to match this up with the edited file, so I guesss my hope here is that it recaptures identically to the cuts, ect I had before.

Chris - thanks - $300 is exactly what I was thinking for a minimum because of the lenth of time its really going to take... AMEN to your comment on "how these projects grow"!

Matthew - I do like the idea of an hourly rate for reedit and a lower rate for the hours of capture and rendering. That is a very fair way to look at it. I do want to be fair here and not completely take advantage of the situation, but I do think my time is valuable. I am at home with my 2 and 4 year old children and family is the most valuable thing in the world, right!?

Thanks again, at least I feel better getting back to her now.

Dawn:

Do you still have the DVD artwork saved? And will you give them another DVD box with artwork?

Anyway, I don't think your veg file will be able to recreate the timeline unless your capture from tape(s) is exactly the same in length and where you make separate clips, etc. You will also have to use the same clip naming convention, but thats not too big an issue.

I would ask for the DVD from the client or use your copy if you have one to import the disc to the timeline and do a simple ripple edit cutting that scene. If you also have a separate highlight clip on the disc, you will have to capture that one too.

It should smart render pretty quickly after that. Unfortunately, you are going to have to re-author the project. I hope you have the DVDA file saved so at least the menu appearance will be the same, but the chapter markers would all be off.

I would be honest with the client and give them the details of how much work this will be. Someone with no editing knowlege will have no idea how much work is involved.

Im glad Im tapeless and am archiving entire projects, even though I have never had a 6 month later edit request.

I have a "re-edit" fee statement in my contract for issues like these. It's based on a flat hourly rate.

I do give a "one-time" re-edit session for free, but the client needs to notify me of the issue and what they want reedited within three months after they receive their DVD.

The good thing is that no one has asked me for a re-edit. :-)

Two things ...

First, even it was just a small change and would only take you a few hours, I wouldn't do it for free. Not when the client was given a chance to review the edit, and not when the client has had the DVD's for 6 months. I understand customer service is important, but there is a fine line between offering good service and getting walked over. This is very close to falling into that latter category, especially because changes that come up 6 months later are usually pretty minor, and they will just likely lead to other such changes. And trust me, once you've given in to doing it for free once, they're going to expect that again and again.

Second, for this case charge exactly what the work is worth to you. If you feel you're worth $50/hr, and the project (from capture through DVD production) is going to take you 10 hours, then quote her $500. If it's going to take 20 hours, charge her $1,000. Be clear with her how much time is involved in making a change like this at this point. Better to have her walk away and decide that the clip isn't that bad than to do all 10 hours of work and get paid for 3. I don't know about you, but my time is in short supply.

Good luck!

Anyway, I don't think your veg file will be able to recreate the timeline unless your capture from tape(s) is exactly the same in length and where you make separate clips, etc.

I've never used Vegas, but every NLE I have used to cut DV footage has been able to batch capture a sequence. I don't know what the original source of the footage was, but even HDV has time code although there is some debate about how frame accurate it is due to the MPEG2 codec. Either way Dawn should be good to go as long as the project files still exist.

I wouldn't recommend ripping from DVD if you can help it, because the DVD video will be compressed again on export and you'll get all sorts of nasty pixelation.

Dawn:

Do you still have the DVD artwork saved? And will you give them another DVD box with artwork?

Anyway, I don't think your veg file will be able to recreate the timeline unless your capture from tape(s) is exactly the same in length and where you make separate clips, etc. You will also have to use the same clip naming convention, but thats not too big an issue.

I would ask for the DVD from the client or use your copy if you have one to import the disc to the timeline and do a simple ripple edit cutting that scene. If you also have a separate highlight clip on the disc, you will have to capture that one too.

It should smart render pretty quickly after that. Unfortunately, you are going to have to re-author the project. I hope you have the DVDA file saved so at least the menu appearance will be the same, but the chapter markers would all be off.

I would be honest with the client and give them the details of how much work this will be. Someone with no editing knowlege will have no idea how much work is involved.

Im glad Im tapeless and am archiving entire projects, even though I have never had a 6 month later edit request.

Great points. Thankfully, I have all artwork and the DVDA files. I actually have the saved .VOB files from burning the DVDs... and I think I'm going to import those into Vegas and try to edit like you mentioned. I am emailing her a quote today, so we'll see if she's willing to pay for this one clip of her face with no make up. I think she's a beautiful girl and don't see anything wrong with the shot... so I almost feel bad charging her!

But thankfully this may not be as involved of a process as I originally thought! Thanks again!

I've never used Vegas, but every NLE I have used to cut DV footage has been able to batch capture a sequence. I don't know what the original source of the footage was, but even HDV has time code although there is some debate about how frame accurate it is due to the MPEG2 codec. Either way Dawn should be good to go as long as the project files still exist.

I wouldn't recommend ripping from DVD if you can help it, because the DVD video will be compressed again on export and you'll get all sorts of nasty pixelation.

Oh, geez. How dumb of me. I was looking for an "easier" way out and totally forgot about recompressing these files. I am going to have to go the recapture route because I don't want my reputation to suffer if the quality is not as good as the first one I sent her.

Matthew - It was HDV, so we'll see how well it recaptures! Thanks for straightening me out on this!

Ryan - I also have a "reedit clause" in my contract, but it doesn't state a price, just that there is a fee. I left it open because I have never actually had to do it! LOL... lesson learned!

Another thing that's funny (and frustrating at the same time) is that this "no makeup" scene only bothers her now, and maybe for two or three more years. As she ages, she will appreciate how fleeting beauty is. There will come a day when she'll wish she could see that scene again.

Another thing that's funny (and frustrating at the same time) is that this "no makeup" scene only bothers her now, and maybe for two or three more years. As she ages, she will appreciate how fleeting beauty is. There will come a day when she'll wish she could see that scene again.
LOL... how true this statement is!

Dawn,
Before you even start re-editing, call the bride and tell her what you intend to charge. In most cases, she'll flip! $300-$500 just to take out one shot?? But you charged me $XXXX to shoot the entire wedding day, but you're going to charge me that much just to take out one little shot?? In her mind the amount just doesn't add up. They don't realize how time consuming it is to edit a video.

Learn from your mistake of deleting your files. From now on, always archive your rendered timeline in hd. That way, if anyone wants to make more changes in the future, you can do it in very little time and very easily.

Most videographers don't realize that when brides watch their videos, there are quite a few things they don't like but they won't say anything. Fat thighs, bad hair, closeups of double chins, bad complexion, dark circles under her eyes, a steadicam shot that's too fast and dizzy, or maybe a closeup shot of Trixie, the sleazy girl she never liked but is the best man's girlfriend.

I wouldn't charge her more than $50 just to take out one shot. If you can fix her video, she'll be sure to tell all her friends how great it was to work with you. Conversely, if you give her a hard time, her friends probably won't be calling you in the future. My way of doing business is that the customer ALWAYS gets their way with us. We treat them as king and queen.

That is how we've been able to stay in business for the last 18 years without a website or major advertising. It's all word of mouth.

I agree with Warren to a point, but she's had the video for 6 months. A re-edit takes time, and it also delays current projects. I have a clause in my contract that states the video will remain on the computer for 2 weeks after delivery and any changes need to made within that time. Any changes after 2 weeks will be charged a rate of $30/hr.

On top of re-edit there is also time spent in DVD authoring - recreating menus, artwork, etc. That adds to cost as well. I'm always giving my customers at least 3 sets of DVD's - for me that would mean that I have to burn 3 more copies of the DVD (unless the Bride wants to fix only one copy).

I charge a flat rate, $89/hour, regardless of the length of time has passed, or how insignificant the edit is. $89/hour includes everything from re-capture (if necessary) and DVD authoring, but on top of that, I will re-charge them for the DVDs too. If I have to re-capture 10 hours of HDV footage because they want this clip changed, this changed, etc. etc. then that's an instant $890 plus editing time.

All this is in my contract, but I also put a note in there stating "technical errors will be fixed for free" so if I misspell the bride's name I don't start a mob coming after me :)

Consequently though, I've never had anyone ask for a re-edit after almost 4 years of doing business. Either they really like their product from start to finish, or they just don't want to fork out the re-edit money.... either way, no complaints from me!

Consequently though, I've never had anyone ask for a re-edit after almost 4 years of doing business. Either they really like their product from start to finish, or they just don't want to fork out the re-edit money.... either way, no complaints from me!

I think you hit the nail on the head. You definitely don't want to rake people over the coals, especially if you had a great relationship with the B&G. However, if you set your fees high enough you will either make it worth your while to do a re-edit OR the Bride will see that said flaw in the video just isn't worth the hassle of doing it all over again and suddenly the video seems "just fine".

-Brad

I wouldn't charge her more than $50 just to take out one shot. If you can fix her video, she'll be sure to tell all her friends how great it was to work with you. Conversely, if you give her a hard time, her friends probably won't be calling you in the future. My way of doing business is that the customer ALWAYS gets their way with us.

I agree that we should bend over backwards for the client because good customer service is the foundation of any successful business, but there's a point. If you have, for example, six tapes to capture that's six hours of time right there, which is six hours that you can't capture your next project. Plus rendering time, then DVD authoring time, you're looking at a full day to make a two second change.

What happens two months down the road when she decides she wants the shot back in? Or wants another shot taken out? Or wants some other little change? I certainly don't charge enough that I can justify losing a day of productivity for $50. Especially when the client received a copy to screen to for these very purpose.

I emailed her a cost estimate... letting her know that I estimated high just so she wasn't blindsided if it took longer. Well, she didn't want to pay. I used this clip both in her preparations and in the review of the day... only in the review of the day, I turned it black and white. So, now she came up with the idea that if I turn it black and white, it'll be okay...

Ok, so the process is still the same... and the cost would be too. I want to help her, I really do... but I am at a loss for what to do with this. Should I take the easy route and edit the DVD files, rerender and viola? I know its taking the cances on pixelation, but she's not going to pay me to make it worth recapturing and going that route. Thanks for the advice so far... any more would be great!

Dawn,
I've watched this thread with interest, here's my opinion.
Do not do it! At least not for free.
The wedding was 9 months ago, she had a preview copy to look at and she's had the DVDs for 6 months. I'm sorry but that's more than enough time to make a decision about 1 short shot that really in my mind means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
We're not talking about a really good corporate client that is good for thousands of dollars of work a year.
If you do reedit, as long as you have the veg files reload the tape, reopen the project and you're good to go, but you MUST charge for the time to load the tapes,the time to edit the clip, the time to render the project and the time to burn and print the DVDs.
The time involved in just loading the tapes will kill off half a day. Even at a minimum of $25 per hour (and it should be more) figure it out.
Of course maybe she's the one that buys something from a store wears it, uses it whatever and then takes it back 9 months later because it makes her l be look fat ;-)
No chance the store would take it back, why should you be any different?
In my opinion this is like any other outside edit job-except you have the original tapes, you charge the going rate and if she doesn't want to pay, oh well!
As I always say, "some will, some won't, who's next.
Good luck and remember you are in business to make a profit and profit is not a dirty word.

Should I take the easy route and edit the DVD files, rerender and viola? I know its taking the cances on pixelation, but she's not going to pay me to make it worth recapturing and going that route. Thanks for the advice so far... any more would be great!

Dawn:

If you are using Vegas Pro 8.x, a file which is fully compliant to the desired render format will smart render, which does not recompress the material.

I.E. as a test, import the VOB & render with no edits at all and it should just re-write the file in 10 seconds or so, much shorter than a (re-compress) render.

If it dosent work on the VOB, you may need to demux the VOB, but I don't think you will have to.

I think you should post this question in the Sonycreativesoftware.com Vegas forum. Im sure you will get a quick and definative answer.

PS - Im starting to not like your client on all kinds of levels, but she is the client.

Dawn:

If you are using Vegas Pro 8.x, a file which is fully compliant to the desired render format will smart render, which does not recompress the material.

That's a good idea. The only recompression would happen on the part of the clip that is converted to B&W. It will still take time, so you need to charge her something.

Thanks Don for your words... I love it when you step in and say something because you are never sugar-coating the truth! You're right... some will, some won't...!

Jeff - I am going to run a test today to see if that works... I do use Vegas 8 Pro so it should. THANK YOU for posting as you may have just saved me a lot of work.

Chris - Yes I defnitely agree... there will be money exchanged here. I am working up a new quote MUCH less than the last and I am thinking she'll go for it. It shouldn't take nearly the amount of time as we were thinking before.