I just posted a question here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sdtv-hdtv-video-monitors/146263-need-hdmi-monitor-ikan-marshall-manhattan.html#post1030890
but I thought this forum might be a better place to start, since we're all using the same camera and have similar missions.

I need to have a monitor by the 28th, since i have a project I'm shooting then with my 5D2, and will have a DP and other people needing to view a monitor.

ALL suggestions will be most appreciated.

I guess that Ikan updated to HDMI... this is the older monitor...

IKanV8000HDe :: Digital Juice (http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=921)

Marshall v-lcd70p-hdmi. A lot of cool features

Marshall V-LCD70P HD camera Monitor - dvcreators.network forums (http://dvcreators.net/discuss/showthread.php?t=23283)

I haven't yet hooked up the 5D MkII HDMI output, but I understand that it devolves to 480 lines when recording. Given that, it seems that an HDMI monitor is overkill - unless used for reviewing footage. Also, isn't the output 4x3 during recording and Live View? An analog 4x3 monitor should do the trick for filming. For review, a regular HDTV would give a larger image that would show up flaws. Of course, you need AC power for the HDTV, but it doesn't need to be carted around with the camera as you shoot.

I haven't yet hooked up the 5D MkII HDMI output, but I understand that it devolves to 480 lines when recording. Given that, it seems that an HDMI monitor is overkill - unless used for reviewing footage. Also, isn't the output 4x3 during recording and Live View? An analog 4x3 monitor should do the trick for filming. For review, a regular HDTV would give a larger image that would show up flaws. Of course, you need AC power for the HDTV, but it doesn't need to be carted around with the camera as you shoot.
I recently imported to Australia the Ikan V8000 HDMI kit + monitor arm and sun shade. B&H (UPS Freight @ US$390 + customs!!!) The end result, as you say, 480 lines when recording at 16X9. A total fizz.

What I have since discovered, a cheap 3in magnifying glass lens mounted in conduit tube with bracket, does a better job. Certainly more cost effective. I have used this approach with my EX1, it also works.

There are times when the monitor will help, and times when the magnifier will work. I have a cheap 19 HD monitor, a 200 7" portable monitor with battery pack, and the magnifier set up. I made one some weeks back and a picture of the sholder rig. It actually works very well. by the time the 16:9 SD monitor is chopped off at sides, your image is not much bigger than the LCD, and it resolves lower. And as for the 16:9 19 incher, I do have the HDMI cable now, but you actually get a bigger image through the composite cable...

I bought a 19" Vizio 720p TV. Talk about cheap and has HDMI and composite inputs. Of course this only works when you have something to set it on and power.

I haven't yet hooked up the 5D MkII HDMI output, but I understand that it devolves to 480 lines when recording. Given that, it seems that an HDMI monitor is overkill - unless used for reviewing footage. Also, isn't the output 4x3 during recording and Live View? An analog 4x3 monitor should do the trick for filming. For review, a regular HDTV would give a larger image that would show up flaws. Of course, you need AC power for the HDTV, but it doesn't need to be carted around with the camera as you shoot.

A laptop with USB shows the full 1080p image while setting up and shooting. Surely there is some way to take advantage of that instead of the crippled HDMI output.

A laptop with USB shows the full 1080p image while setting up and shooting. Surely there is some way to take advantage of that instead of the crippled HDMI output.

How is this possible? I've not heard of monitoring through USB on a laptop. That could be a solution when there is no power available.

How is this possible? I've not heard of monitoring through USB on a laptop. That could be a solution when there is no power available.

The standard Canon EOS software does it. You can also control the camera. The laptop battery can be swapped just like the camera's. The big display on the laptop is great except you see everything the lCD sees including the stupid white square. The viewer (director) can hide it in the corner with his mouse.

My only problem is in giving the director a replay of a scene. There is no way to play back the scene except to use the little LCD on the camera or move the CF card over, which is what I do now. Scenes are usually short and you can copy a scene at 4X rate.

I'm working on a kludge to be able to start viewing the scene immediately after putting the card in. My theory is that when the director thinks he has a good shot from watching the laptop screen live, I swap CF cards and give him the old one. Then he can decide to shoot or review himself.

The director can even put the shots he likes in folders organized the way he thinks. You could even drag them into an editor and watch rough cuts on the spot.

Thanks Mark, I'm going to go try this out. I don't know why I was never aware of it before.

Thanks Mark, I'm going to go try this out. I don't know why I was never aware of it before.

I have been using Canon live-view USB tethered software for years. I did it without even thinking. Video is just an extension of the live-view.

I have found the video to be good, but I've never seen the video on one of these real monitors discussed on this thread. Let me know how it compares. I assume there is a delay, but the director wouldn't care.

Wow great idea. Do you think hooking a netbook top of laptop like a 10 dell mini would do the trick? I could fashion some kind of stand my tripod to put this smalll laptop on there .

I tried t his the other night, after reading about it here.

It works on a desktop, so I'd guess it will work on a laptop, since it's only USB.
And since it IS only USB, the display is significantly reduced in frame rate.

To my eye,I'd guess I was getting about 12FPS update with a bit of a lag (as noted above).

As far as I know, USB just can't transfer that kind of data quickly enough for real-time.

On the plus side (for me), I hooked the HDMI from the camera into my 50" Panny, and was not offended by the 480p display. I think a nice little (inexpensive) monitor will be a benefit on most shoots that I do.

Ugh too bad about the 12 fps.. If it was just a little more I think it would a perfect solution for a 5d II photog / videographer remote. Even at 12 fps i think it would be good enough for helping focus though. USB 2.0's bandwidth i would think should be enough for it.

I tried t his the other night, after reading about it here.

It works on a desktop, so I'd guess it will work on a laptop, since it's only USB.
And since it IS only USB, the display is significantly reduced in frame rate.

To my eye,I'd guess I was getting about 12FPS update with a bit of a lag (as noted above).

As far as I know, USB just can't transfer that kind of data quickly enough for real-time.

On the plus side (for me), I hooked the HDMI from the camera into my 50" Panny, and was not offended by the 480p display. I think a nice little (inexpensive) monitor will be a benefit on most shoots that I do.

I'll take 12 fps of 1080p over 30fps of 480p any day. You can judge quality so much better. It's also the same before and during shooting.

With the Marshall, I hook up both an HDMI and the included AV cable. Use the HDMI for checking out a scene before rolling or for reviewing footage. Since the camera will down rez when you hit record, I disconnect the HDMI cable and use Composite. It is SD, but it is better quality than the low rez, stretched HDMI output while recording. You'll be amazed at how well you can focus in SD with Red Peaking. The composite signal does not change when you hit record. I have been using the monitor for a few months now this way. Even with a monopod, steady tracker extreme, steady stick and hand held, I can focus much, much better on the move. See the example video Calibrating a Broadcast Monitor + New Pro Features on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/3723108)

side question... can u have both the camera LCD on and the external monitor on? Is there a switch in a menu? Or that jst how life is with the mkii... it turns off when an external cable is connected.

It just turns off when the HDMI or av cable is connected.

Dan

With the Marshall, I hook up both an HDMI and the included AV cable. Use the HDMI for checking out a scene before rolling or for reviewing footage. Since the camera will down rez when you hit record, I disconnect the HDMI cable and use Composite. It is SD, but it is better quality than the low rez, stretched HDMI output while recording. You'll be amazed at how well you can focus in SD with Red Peaking. The composite signal does not change when you hit record. I have been using the monitor for a few months now this way. Even with a monopod, steady tracker extreme, steady stick and hand held, I can focus much, much better on the move. See the example video Calibrating a Broadcast Monitor + New Pro Features on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/3723108)

Seems like a lot of trouble. A USB cable to a laptop shows HD widescreen before, during, and after shooting. There is about a one second delay, but that hasn't been a problem for me. You also have the stupid white square.

Seems like a lot of trouble. A USB cable to a laptop shows HD widescreen before, during, and after shooting. There is about a one second delay, but that hasn't been a problem for me. You also have the stupid white square.

It boils down to what type of shooting you're doing. Standing in the middle of the city tethered to a laptop isn't going to happen. 1 second delay. Not for me. I can put an israeli arm on and shoot a concert like this NIN: 1,000,000 Live from on stage, Sydney 2.22.09 [HD] on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/3385757)
Or I can slap on a monopod (my favorite so far) and get 7' overhead while tilting the monitor down. Jib arm shots? No problem.

It boils down to what type of shooting you're doing. Standing in the middle of the city tethered to a laptop isn't going to happen. 1 second delay. Not for me. I can put an israeli arm on and shoot a concert like this NIN: 1,000,000 Live from on stage, Sydney 2.22.09 [HD] on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/3385757)
Or I can slap on a monopod (my favorite so far) and get 7' overhead while tilting the monitor down. Jib arm shots? No problem.

They make laptops of all sizes, including very small. You could mount one on an any arm. They make ones where the screen rotates 180 degrees and even lays flat so it is nothing but screen. The screen tilt is great on that kind. You can see histograms and control settings. You can start and stop recording from the laptop. They have batteries built in.

Re: one second delay. I use the Camera's LCD for framing while shooting unless it is a still shot, then I use the laptop.

I'm not saying it is for everyone, but for me, fighting the crippled video connectors is way to much of a pain.

Yeah i think a netbook like the often discounted 200$ dell mini 9 would be a very interesting option.

So, what exactly should someone expect when you plug in a hdmi monitor like the Ikan?

I know that the lcd screen on the 5d turns off.

I also know that while recording, the image shrinks and has black bars above and below, it doesn't fill the screen and there is a drop in resolution down to 480i.

while reviewing your footage or while in live view mode the resolution is 1080. So as long as you aren't recording the monitor is wonderful.

What is unclear is that some people have said that for the monitor to switch over from hd to 480 causes a lag time of 5 seconds, is this so? Also, once once you have hit record and the monitor has caught up is there a delay between what you are viewing on the monitor and what is happening or is it pretty much live?

I can see how it would be useful to have a 8inch hd monitor to check focus while reviewing footage or even to get focused before a shot, but considering the step down in quality when recording is the larger monitor an advantage at all for focusing? In other words, would I typically rather just focus from the camera's lcd screen.

Daniel, you are pretty much correct on all counts. With the Manhattan and Ikan HDMI LCD's I've tested so far there is a few second blackout as the resolution change from 1080 to 480, I am told the Marshall does not do this Guy would know better. Once the resolution has changed there is no noticable delay.

I think you can also rig the Ikan and Manhattan the same way as Guy has with both video input types and then switch between them but I haven't tested that yet.

Even in 1080 output before recording the image is shrunk with info around it so you never get full screen 1080.

Hope that helps

Dan

Hey Dan, so what do you this is the most preferred solution for video out?

I'm about to pull the trigger on a dell mini 9 to try out that option.

When connected to my Acer monitor's HDMI port, recording starts and quickly stops on my 5D MkII. My guess is that the monitor doesn't support 480p over HDMI properly.

So be careful when buying an HDMI monitor for live recording. If it doesn't support 480p, it won't work. I think a 4x3 SD analog monitor is the cost-effective way to go for mounting to the rig. HDMI and 16x9 are only worthwhile for playback review.

Sometimes as I am looking at the image through the monitor hookup trying to get that critical focus, my imaginations runs away to some Canon planning session where they are all gathered around a big table, trying to see how many ways they could frustrate the Indie film maker who dares try to turn their SLR in to a film maker's dream camera. Dang they are making it hard, but we will just have to persevere.

One effective way to get critical focus if you are not dealing with a moving target, is to actually focus through the prism view finder, before locking the mirror up to go to Live View... this seems to work well.

One effective way to get critical focus if you are not dealing with a moving target, is to actually focus through the prism view finder, before locking the mirror up to go to Live View... this seems to work well.I prefer to use the x10 magnification in Live View. Neither method is helpful though, after you start recording.

William,

For now I think the Hoodman hoodloupe is best for run and gun but I'd say an Ikan 5.6 inch, 8 inch is OK for other stuff. The Manhattan is nice but too big for me unless its in the studio. I haven't had a chance to see a Marshall though.

Dan

One effective way to get critical focus if you are not dealing with a moving target, is to actually focus through the prism view finder, before locking the mirror up to go to Live View... this seems to work well.

I found it difficult at best to use the 5d viewfinder, especially with a hoodman attached. I now use an Angle Finder C (Canon), which provides 1.25x and 2.5x magnification. I work on the left side of the camera with the follow focus and have great results. Check out the pic.

I work on the left side of the camera with the follow focus and have great results. Check out the pic.

I'm curious, what follow focus, rails, and matte box are you using?

-- peer

Peer,

Here's the link

Cine follow focus sunshade kit for D90 canon 5d mark II - eBay (item 350184027844 end time Apr-03-09 20:41:44 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/Cine-follow-focus-sunshade-kit-for-D90-canon-5d-mark-II_W0QQitemZ350184027844QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item350184027844&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)

A company from India ... great price (under $700 + shipping $45). The quality is good, no problems, everything works, got it within a week after I ordered. Contact me directly if you want to come and see it.

rjwaylonis@mac.com

William,

For now I think the Hoodman hoodloupe is best for run and gun but I'd say an Ikan 5.6 inch, 8 inch is OK for other stuff. The Manhattan is nice but too big for me unless its in the studio. I haven't had a chance to see a Marshall though.

Dan

Hello Dan. Can you tell something more about the 5.6 Ikan you're trying? Colours, seeming sturdyness, and all?
I use a Marshall 7 inch on my rig (actually dv/hd cameras + 35mm lenses adapter). Love it really, but cumbersome and not easy to really be correctly counterbalanced, at least during extended shoulder shooting.
Many thanks

Yeah i think a netbook like the often discounted 200$ dell mini 9 would be a very interesting option.

I thought that until I tried to load the Canon software on my wife's Samsumg NC10 netbook. It wouldn't even load because the netbook 'didn't have sufficient screen resolution' for it.

So. no go.


Poo

Avey

I thought that until I tried to load the Canon software on my wife's Samsumg NC10 netbook. It wouldn't even load because the netbook 'didn't have sufficient screen resolution' for it.The specifications do call for a 1024x768 16-bit display. Whether that screen size is really necessary for all functions is another matter. You should be able to at least install the software by temporarily hooking up an external monitor that does meet the requirements. I need to try this myself as I wanted to use an MSI Wind to control the 5DII when it is on a motorised pan & tilt head on the 7m (22') pole that I have for elevated shots.

The specifications do call for a 1024x768 16-bit display. Whether that screen size is really necessary for all functions is another matter. You should be able to at least install the software by temporarily hooking up an external monitor that does meet the requirements. I need to try this myself as I wanted to use an MSI Wind to control the 5DII when it is on a motorised pan & tilt head on the 7m (22') pole that I have for elevated shots.Just to confirm that I was able to install the EOS utility on the MSI Wind with a 1000x600 screen by plugging in an external monitor & that the software works OK using the laptop screen. One caveat is that the Wind is running OS X Leopard but I imagine that it would be the same result if it were running Windows.

I'm curious, what follow focus, rails, and matte box are you using?
Peer, Here's the link Cine follow focus sunshade kit for D90 canon 5d mark II - eBay (item 350184027844 end time Apr-03-09 20:41:44 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/Cine-follow-focus-sunshade-kit-for-D90-canon-5d-mark-II_W0QQitemZ350184027844QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item350184027844&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50) A company from India ... great price (under $700 + shipping $45). The quality is good, no problems, everything works, got it within a week after I ordered. Contact me directly if you want to come and see it. rjwaylonis@mac.com

If you only were living closer to me, I'd like to check it out (but I'm in Bay Area). Do you happen to have more pictures of it? I also wonder if you could measure the upper french flag's width for me? Are you still happy with the follow focus?

-- peer

Wayne and Nigel.

I tried out the Canon Software on an equivalent netbook 'hackintosh' - the MSI Wind U100.

Managed to install the software using an external monitor set to 1024x768. The EOS Utility opened fine but the 'adjust' part of the windows (if there is one) is below the bottom of the MSI 1024x600 screen. However I was able to remotely view the 5D output and record still and video material. The lag is quite substantial for viewing and I counted approximately 3-4 seconds between stopping a pan and it ending on the MSI screen.

The MSI's puny Atom CPU seems to be struggling most of the time and I managed to crash the app at one stage. But it does work and it does provide a usable image for framing and focussing. Haven't yet had time to play with the rest of the software.

Maybe some of the real 'geeks' out there can suggest a way to scale the 1024x768 EOS Utility windows to the MSI's 1024x600 screen (even with distortion).

Sorry, in my excitement to report that I had been able to install on the netbook I forgot to mention the slowness of the display & responsiveness of the application. To be fair I didn't spend much time testing. It may be a Mac thing as while it perform better on my MacBook Pro it's not as responsive as I would like. The previous version of the software for the Mac just hung on Live View. I have tried the software on a Windows laptop where it worked OK but again there was quite a lag in responding but the system was an old 1.5GHz P4.

I should probably put Windows back on the MSI Wind to see whether the Canon software performs better. I can always set it up dual booting with OS X & just use Windows when using the Canon software.

If you want to use a small laptop, I guess one option would also be one of those tv tuner pcmcia cards and monitoring the composite video out of the camera.

Just wanted to add my experience with the Ikan V5600 (5.6"), the little guy seems pretty ideal. It weighs a bit over a pound with a small sony L-series battery attached (got a bunch of cheap ones off ebay). It's really not much bigger than the on-camera screen but it's just big enough to get focus, and it has a higher resolution than other 7 or 8 inch monitors. The image quality isn't amazing and it stretches the frame when recording, which is weird but it still allows for critical focus during recording and decent playback for situations where you don't have (or can't afford) a larger field monitor.

-Nandan
Land of the Lost (http://www.lotlmovie.com)