The new media encoder was a big selling point for me. I looked forward to being able to render to multiple formats, using multiple projects via the queue. However, my real world tests, not even using Cineform, show that it is so much slower than CS3 that it negates any benefits that I was hoping for. I cannot fathom how this program is so slow in comparison to CS3. I have a friend who swears by Vegas and I have to admit, it consistently get's better, version after version and only appears to get faster too! Premiere
seems to add features (few at athat) get slower or at best stay the same. I would have been happy if it stayed the same. But at this point it is a waste for me.

Marty- I'm curious what OS you re using, and how much RAM you have.
One reviewer who was very enthustiastic about the performance of CS4 AME was using Vista 64 with 16 GB RAM. He was pretty emphatic that it takes 64 bit + mega RAM to get the advertised performance.
Since I am just on the cusp of upgrading to CS4 and a new system, reports like yours are key info for me.
Thanks

intel quadcore 3.2ghz
4gb ram
Windows xp 32bit
Geforce gtx 260 with 896mb ram

Wish I had CS3 to test since I'm running an 2.6GHz i7 processor over clocked to 3.2GHz with 16GB of memory and a Nvidia 260 graphics card. I'm getting pretty decent speeds. Not to mention all 4 cores (8 threads) get pegged at 100% usage when exporting from Premiere into AME. So the machine is cranking.

Yeah- That's what I'm planning for CS4: Intel i7, Vista 64, 12-16 GB RAM.
That is encouraging news Brant.
Some of you may be interested to read the article about CS4 & Vista 64:
http://blogs.adobe.com/genesisproject/2009/03/64_bit_os_and_adobe_products.html#more
I always thought that 32 bit apps like Pro CS4 could only access 2 GB of RAM no matter what the OS, but this article insists that with Vista 64, both Pro and AE can access up to 4 GB per CORE- so, quad core = 16 GB for Pro CS4.
That would be a very big deal, if it's really true.

I am in the process of updating my XP box to dual boot to Vista 64. As soon as I get it up and running, I will update you on any performance increases I see in CS4 encoding. I have my doubts that it will speed up a single video clip sitting on the CS4 timeline, but I will try it. There are too many other advantages to Vista 64 running multiple apps so the timing is right.

This blog was written by one of the developers of MS Flight Simulator (RIP) and it explains the IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE flag that allows 32 bit programs to use up to 4GB RAM in Vista x64 and up to 2 GB in 32 bit Windows:

PTaylor's WebLog : FSX and Win32 Process Address Space (http://blogs.gotdotnet.com/ptaylor/archive/2007/06/15/fsx-and-win32-process-address-space.aspx)

Actually, After Effects CS3 also used more than 2GB of RAM by spawning multiple copies of itself.

Below is a listing of the exe file header flags for Premiere CS4 and it indeed can use > 2GB per running copy.

Just fyi, we get good results on our 32bit XP Pro workstation with CS3, using the "/3G /Userva=2560" switches in the boot.ini. Helps the mem probs a bit, without pushing too close to the limit.

Our 64bit XP workstations don't need any help...with CS3 or CS4.

These are all quadcores with only 4 GB RAM. So far, so good. If when CF finally gets things going with the CS4 versions of Prospect HD, we'll probably discover that more mem is better too. But for now, we're doing okay with 4 GB...for now...for now...

Well, I was so happy that I could finally import the converted files... so I tried the new neoscene to convert all my new canon 5D II videos... it stopped after five...
Now It doesn't work anymore... the same error I got other times with the old versions. It works one time and then the program gets corrupted.
But CS4 works fine now with the cineform files (the few I managed to convert).

Wish I had CS3 to test since I'm running an 2.6GHz i7 processor over clocked to 3.2GHz with 16GB of memory and a Nvidia 260 graphics card. I'm getting pretty decent speeds. Not to mention all 4 cores (8 threads) get pegged at 100% usage when exporting from Premiere into AME. So the machine is cranking.

Curious how you got 16GB on your i7 platform. What's your memory configuration. Did you abandon triple channel?

Ok So the outstanding problems that i'm still facing with Neoscene and CS4 are

1) In Premiere, you cant import files bigger than 4gb in size. It truncates the video. This has been identified by Cf support , but Im stuck now since the past week waiting for an update to the situation

2) All of a sudden video thumbnails have dissapeared in Adobe Bridge for Neoscene Avi file. Previously they were showingup. No amount of purging cache etc is solving it. (Still not a major drawback as compared to point 1)

My setup is a Laptop HP HDX Quad core, Seagate e-satat, Vista 64bit, 4 gb ram. 1 gb Nvidia 9000 series card.

With this setup can't yet play two HD video tracks in realtime at 50% opacity and no other effects.
They do play back however at draft quality on Premier timeline.

I guess need more power under the hood and raid? even with the otherwise excellent CF codec to play two tracks of video in realtime?

In Premiere, you cant import files bigger than 4gb in size. Really? Is this true? Are you sure your HDD isn't FAT32? I've never heard of this (which of course means nothing...). Big files are no problem in CS3; is this a CS4 bug?

In Premiere, you cant import files bigger than 4gb in size. It truncates the video.

I have not tried to import CF files > 4G in PP CS4 but I just imported a 16GB DV file with no problems.

Curious how you got 16GB on your i7 platform. What's your memory configuration. Did you abandon triple channel?

I mistyped. I have 12GB which is the max on the ASUS P6T Deluxe board.

Yes unfortunately its true. It's been confirmed by CF support on a ticket.
They working on it. I;m just depressed as I'm delayed a week now and it's the first time im working with CF (since some source material of mine is in ACVHD).
I think its a bug in the background CF importer routie for cs4. Playing teh same file in windows media player etc works just fine.

CF codec without doubt is THE method for working with AVCHD.
and no, My drives are not FAT 32 heheh :-)
I'm going to get a Mini-G raid soon, so hopefully will see if that makes a difference to letting me play at least 2 streams of HD sized CF encoded video, with 50% opacity in realtime at full res.

Regards

The speed of the importer is mostly Adobe, not CineForm, as it Prospect HD we can play 3X the number layers. This has always been the case. CineForm can't fix Adobe's native playback mode, only replace some of the parts that don't work so well with a custom play module (not yet for CS4.) The CS4 importer is not designed for speed, although it is pretty fast, the multi-layer laying engine in Adobe has always been slow. The Prospect accelerator is coming to CS4, just other projects and NAB are taking priority.

Basically I'm describing way people use Prospect HD over NEO HD in Premiere CS2/3, the same will be true for CS4.

I just installed CS4 today, and am curious about what method is used to import the files into PPro CS4. Is a specific preset used (e.g., HDV)? I find that I have problems opening up existing CF projects in CS4 (CS4 just crashes), after having placed the the DLL and PRM in the specified locations...also, I don't see Cineform as one of the supported import options.

Thanks,
Matt

I just installed CS4 today, and am curious about what method is used to import the files into PPro CS4. Is a specific preset used (e.g., HDV)? I find that I have problems opening up existing CF projects in CS4 (CS4 just crashes), after having placed the the DLL and PRM in the specified locations...also, I don't see Cineform as one of the supported import options.

Thanks,
Matt

Presets will come later. For now we are focusing on the importer. You can create your own sequence presets however. Use 'Desktop' for the Editing Mode, and since the CineForm Codec is not available in the Preview File Format option, just use 'I-Frame Only MPEG'. Make all the other settings match your source footage and then save the preset.

OK. So how bad have I screwed things up? I had to uninstall Prospect and reinstall for CS3 and forgot and when it installed all the plugins and setup went into CS4 instead of CS3! How can I fix this? Can I uninstall and somehow force the next install to go to CS3 instead? There must be some way to fix this without removing CS4.

Thanks in advance.

Here is an update to the beta (yes it updates the old link.)

http://miscdata.com/cineform/CFHD_CS4_importer.zip

Still a vanilla importer with no installer.
It contains:
CFHDDecoder.dll
CFHD_AVI_Importer.prm
CFHD_MOV_Importer.prm

Added:
* An MOV importer for PC users accessing CineForm files created on a Mac.

Fixes:
* No more issues with long files.
* Wouldn't import all CineForm AVIs.
* Various stability fixes.

The DLL must be installed in you execution path, if you don't know which directories are in this path, use c:\windows\system32. DO REMEMBER where you put it as it will need to be deleted before installing any official CS4 supporting installers, just in case. You have been warned.

The PRM filex goes in
C:\Program Files\Adobe\Common\Plug-ins\CS4\MediaCore
or
C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Common\Plug-ins\CS4\MediaCore

Remove any our *CFHD*.prm file you might find.

Then start up PPro CS4.

We need the file as the memory leak is not happening here and for others. Use yousendit.com and send the file with these issues to support.

I can confirm that for me, using the new Neoscene importer in Premiere Cs4 on vista 64 system, th entire file is now importing proper on the timeline.
(previously it was getting truncated to around 18 seconds if the clip size was bigger than 4 gb).

Many thanks for this fix and CF support.



P.s I was reading somewhere about something about Cineform 3d? or am i just a bit confused about some other subject?
If not, is there something in the pipleine for Stereosocpic 3d support?

Clyde,

Thanks for the report of another sucessful fix.

Off Topic (not for discussion in this thread): Our way cool Stereo/3D annoucements are coming in about a week -- in the meantime we a wooing the Hollywood crowd with tech previews.

Maybe this will help with issues with the mediacore folder not being present. I had the folder and then it disappeared. I had installed Magic Bullet, thinking it was going to my CS3 install. Because CS4 took over, the magic bullet plugins went to CS4 and were in the CS4 mediacore folder. I uninstalled magic bullet and the CS4 mediacore folder was gone. Upon reinstalling it is back. Apparently the reg key that points to your plugins created it automatically if it is not there.

Not sure why it would disappear but it did. Perhaps installing a plugin into CS4 will create it for those of you who don't have it there by default.

Good Luck.

The only problem is that I have zero plugins, and it wasn't there in the first place.

I also don't have the C:\Program Files\Adobe\Common\Plug-ins\CS4\MediaCore. I don't even have a Common folder. This is a fresh install on WinXP. I do have Magic Bullet and Trapcode plugins installed for AE, but none for Premiere. Is it better to create the folders or to put the prm file into the individual plugin folders for Premiere, AE, and Encore?

OK, so I tried making the C:\Program Files\Adobe\Common\Plug-ins\CS4\MediaCore folder and put the prm file in it. But when I import a Cineform file I get an AVI with audio only. I then cut and pasted the prm file into the plugins folder of Premiere and AE with the same result in both. I'm using the latest importer files that were posted. Suggestions?

OK, so I tried making the C:\Program Files\Adobe\Common\Plug-ins\CS4\MediaCore folder and put the prm file in it. But when I import a Cineform file I get an AVI with audio only. I then cut and pasted the prm file into the plugins folder of Premiere and AE with the same result in both. I'm using the latest importer files that were posted. Suggestions?

Same thing for me, I only get the audio from the file. Installed the latest beta following the instructions.

Ok, I'm building a new computer, and part of that includes CS4 (i7, 12GB memory, GeForce 9600GT). Quite an upgrade from PPro 1.5.x! Anyhow, after installing PPro 1.5.x and Prospect on the new computer (I *still* need to edit CF projects, y'know), I converted an M2T using HDLink, and that fairly flew. Then I put the CFHDDecoder.dll in C:\Windows\system32 (I tried SysWOW64 first, but that's not in the PATH for some reason...), and the PRM files where they go.

The file plays back smoothly without rendering. I'm playing back off the system drive, because I don't have my other drives/raid moved over yet, and it still looked good. This is just desktop playback, of course, because now I'm splitting my two monitors between the two computers. Not sure if that makes a difference.

Good flow, good sound. Wish it worked as well on my old computer (AMD opteron x2 with 3GB and CS4).

Thanks,
Matt

Ok, I'm building a new computer, and part of that includes CS4 (i7, 12GB memory, GeForce 9600GT). Quite an upgrade from PPro 1.5.x! Anyhow, after installing PPro 1.5.x and Prospect on the new computer (I *still* need to edit CF projects, y'know), I converted an M2T using HDLink, and that fairly flew. Then I put the CFHDDecoder.dll in C:\Windows\system32 (I tried SysWOW64 first, but that's not in the PATH for some reason...), and the PRM files where they go.

The file plays back smoothly without rendering. I'm playing back off the system drive, because I don't have my other drives/raid moved over yet, and it still looked good. This is just desktop playback, of course, because now I'm splitting my two monitors between the two computers. Not sure if that makes a difference.

Good flow, good sound. Wish it worked as well on my old computer (AMD opteron x2 with 3GB and CS4).

Thanks,
Matt

If you can swing it, may I suggest you ditch the 9600 graphics card for the new Nvidia 275 GTX (I'm not sure if they have been released yet). Otherwise the 260 would be another good choice. Thats what I'm using.

Quote: If you can swing it, may I suggest you ditch the 9600 graphics card for the new Nvidia 275 GTX

Why, if you don't mind my asking?

It's not necessary to put SysWOW64 in the path, since all activity by 32 bit software is redirected from system32 to SysWOW64 automatically.

For everybody who is getting audio and video playback, do you have a full Prospect or other version installed and then swapped the dll and prm files? Since I did a fresh install of XP and CS4 on my computer, I didn't install Prospect - just the importer files. Could that be a reason I get audio only?

Hi,
any news on progress of the Cine Form realtime playback engine for Premirer Cs4?
Regards

Ok, I'm building a new computer, and part of that includes CS4 (i7, 12GB memory, GeForce 9600GT).

Nice! Very similar to what I'm running. If you can I would look at upgrading to a Quadro card instead of the GeForce series. While some may say there is little difference, I've seen folks with the GeForce cards run into strange problems, which were resolved by changing the video card. I'm running the nVidia Quadro FX3700 card and have not had any playback issues with Premiere Pro.

Quote: If you can swing it, may I suggest you ditch the 9600 graphics card for the new Nvidia 275 GTX

Why, if you don't mind my asking?

In a couple words? Better performance with any program that utilizes the graphics card. Just like getting a Quadro would be the ultimate graphics card for video, not everyone has that kind of money. However in terms of performance, the 275 is going to be a lot faster than the 9600. Not to mention that the 9 series is 2 generations old.

Compare both.
9600 - Click on the Specs Tab
NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9600gt_us.html)

275 - Click on the Specs Tab
GeForce GTX 275 (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gtx_275_us.html)

If only CS4 supported some other CUDA-enabled card besides Quadro. That's a little more than I can spend right now. The 275 looks intriguing, though, as does the 285.

Wonder if we could get Cineform's RT playback to be CUDA-enabled...any CUDA, and not just Quadro (although, if somebody gives me a couple grand, I'd buy one!). I'll have to start a different thread, if I want more info on Quadro though, and try to keep this one focused on the RT engine's timeline for CS4...

Thanks,
Matt

It's not necessary to put SysWOW64 in the path, since all activity by 32 bit software is redirected from system32 to SysWOW64 automatically.

When I had CFHDDecoder.dll under SysWOW64, the video in the Program Monitor in CS4 was all white with occasional flash to black. Audio worked nicely. When I put CFHDDecoder.dll in system32, the video played as expected, and looked pretty good. Is the 32-bit redirection from system32 to SysWOW64 something that needs to be configured?

I should note my sequence of events: Installed PPro 1.5 + updates (that's my current version). Installed Prospect. Installed CS4 Production Premium, + updates. Put DLL in SysWOW64. Imported a CF AVI in CS4. Got the white (no) video in the program monitor. Save project. Move CFHDDecoder.dll to system32. Reopened project in CS4. Video now plays as expected.

*shrug* I can't say how Vista 64 treats system32 or SysWOW64, because so far I know next to nothing about Vista* beyond the TV commercials and Internet vitriole. But the above steps are what made it work for me. I imagine Cineform will need to ensure that all these items are captured as test scenarios.

One further thing--Premiere CS4 installed under Program Files (x86), and I put the PRM files in that directory tree as Dave indicated. Would that make any difference on the system32 vs SysWOW64?

Thanks,
Matt

Quote: However in terms of performance, the 275 is going to be a lot faster than the 9600.

Can anyone provide some simple benchmark results to demonstrate a meaningful performance benefit of a 275 (or similar) over a 9600 (or similar) for Premiere Pro and Cineform? Until then color me skeptical ... a 9600 is a third the price, works great with Premiere and CF, and can be bought in a silent, fanless configuration.

When I had CFHDDecoder.dll under SysWOW64, the video in the Program Monitor in CS4 was all white with occasional flash to black. Audio worked nicely. When I put CFHDDecoder.dll in system32, the video played as expected, and looked pretty good. Is the 32-bit redirection from system32 to SysWOW64 something that needs to be configured?

No. Unless a piece of software is written to explicitly refer to one or the other of the system folders, you don't need to configure anything. For example, if I had a piece of 32-bit code that said to run file "c:\windows\system32\xx.exe", there would be no redirecting to SysWOW64. That's generally bad programming to do that, though, since there are built-in environmental variables that you can use to refer to Vista x64's system folders.

I suspect there is something else going on with your setup. As long as you can make it work, using system32, there's no reason to worry about it.

I haven't tried the CS4 Beta yet, just the standard Neo Scene installation. However, I see white frames (thumbnails) in Bridge CS4 and Mocca for AE for Cineform AVI files. This is on Vista 64 HP SP1.

Hi, this is my first post on this board.

We bought CS4 and CF Prospect4K as an online finishing solution, collaborating with Iridas SpeedGrade. Most editing ist done with FCP, due to a much wider freelancing editor base and the ability to sync sound files via TC. We were happy when the second build came out supporting MOV - another step to make a meaningful workflow happen.

We started a project in PP CS4 and imported 2 Express CF MOVs 1024 x 512 which we previously encoded with ReMaster on the Mac. They worked as expected. We tried to import more files. But they were not able to be played back in the canvas window; pulling them into the timeline caused Premiere Pro to freeze.

After restarting PP the files worked. The work-around now is: Importing a file, quiting Premier Pro and restarting Premiere Pro. This is pretty tedious.

Of course this was not a payed job. We gave up and work in FCP for now. There are too many other bugs in CS4 to call it prime time ready. Hopefully in the summer Prospect is fully working in CS4 plus all the other shortcomings are ironded out. The intended workflow in CS4 is great - just not working currently.

Kind Regards,

Hans

For anyone else who is getting audio only avis, install one of Cineform's products. You need the decoder with the importer. My video imports correctly now, but is jerky on playback.

That means you are not using the importer, instead you are using the VFW codec (which is slower.) When setup correctly (default excution paths can be an issue), the importer works without any other CineForm install.

How can I be sure the CFHDDecoder.dll is being used to decode the CFHD AVIs I import into CS4? Is there some tell-tale sign? Right-clicking on the resource in CS4 doesn't seem to provide any clue.

David, that was what support told me when I submitted a ticket on it. I have the dll in the suggested execution path. I assume it is the correct one since I did a fresh install of CS4 using all defalt settins.

How can I be sure the CFHDDecoder.dll is being used to decode the CFHD AVIs I import into CS4? Is there some tell-tale sign? Right-clicking on the resource in CS4 doesn't seem to provide any clue.

In the properties pop-up you will only see metadata if you are using the new importer. Time and Date info and Fingerprint, etc.

I may be doing this all wrong, or something. Here's my setup:


Premiere Pro 1.5.1, Prospect HD 3.4.6
Premiere Pro CS4 (Production Premium)
Vista Ultimate 64 (xp 32 died)


Things I've tried, plus results, with this beta decoder. I think I may have confused results, and it took me a while to sort things out. Getting old, I guess...


Place CFHDDecoder.dll in Windows\system32. CFHD AVI plays fine in CS4. Not sure which codec it's using.
Place CFHDDecoder.dll in Windows\SysWOW63. CFHD AVI won't play--preview screen is white, mostly, some black. PPro CS4 locks up for extended periods.
Remove CFHDDecoder.dll completely. Reboot. CFHD AVI plays fine in CS4--even in multi-camera.


I'm not sure, but I'm suspecting that the CFHDDecoder.dll really doesn't play on my system, or just doesn't work. Plus, CFHD AVIs won't play in Windows Media Player 11 at all, due to a decoder error. I figured maybe my Prospect needs updating, but since I have both CS4 and PPro 1.5, that upgrading Prospect is pretty much a useless venture--the Prospect installer would consider CS4 to be the current PPro in install for that.

My system is i7, Asus P6T, 12GB RAM, video on a SiL 4726 RAID0. Installed OS, PPro 1.5.1 + Prospect HD, and the Production Premium. Using default settings to install. I'm thinking that CFHD was playing as VFW, when it played nicely, and my new system is just fast enough to handle it. I'm thinking the CFHDDecoder.dll really doesn't work correctly. I really didn't (don't, yet) know enough about Vista 64, so thought putting the DLL in system32 resulted in the dll being used, but after seeing the behavior of putting the dll in SysWOW64, and then removing it again, I have to say the DLL doesn't work.

Just my observations, with some miniscule interpretation. Maybe the PHD 3.4.6 is providing some decoding? I don't see how it could, though....

Thanks,
Matt