Hello,

Anybody out there using the new MC 3.5 software with EX media? I'd love to know how the AMA workflow is working.

Thanks,
Don

Hello,

Anybody out there using the new MC 3.5 software with EX media? I'd love to know how the AMA workflow is working.

Thanks,
Don

I've tried it! It's brilliant. It will probably change my workflow altogether.
Before the AMA-feature my workflow was this.

1. Offload cards using Clip Browser to HD.

2. Make backup of BPAV folder to second HD.

3. Convert clips to MXF into a temporary directory on a third HD.

4. Import MXF clips into Media Composer.

This meant copying to media 4 times before starting to edit. It also meant using at least three times the drive space of the original media. (After throwing away the MXF-files).

Now - with AMA I can remove almost all of these steps! I can actually get away with no file copying at all.

One workflow is this.

1. Put SxS-card into laptop.

2. Use AMA feature to browse to SxS card ant point to it. Wait 5-10 sekonds and voila - the clips show up in a bin and you can start editing straight from the card.

Of course you will need to consolidate your edit when you are finished if you don't want the card to remain permanently in the reader. This would be great for news. Absolutely NO off load time.

The workflow I will be using will be very differnt from my old workflow.

1. Offload clips to HD. (My fast Avid Media drive)

2. Make backup to another HD.

3. Use AMA to point to the media on the fast Avid Media drive. And start editing.

The great thing about this, apart from only having to copy the media twice instead of four times (With shotput you can do this in one go) is that I actually don't create Avid media files ever. The media remains in it's original BPAV-format forever. This means that if my media drives crash I don't even have to relink the media from a backup. All I have to do is plug in my backup drive and point to the media on my backup and I'm of again. A couple of minutes of lost editing time.

AMA has also meant that all of my archived footage since I bought my EX1 now is online instead of requiring at least two file copies to be available in the Avid. All I have to do is use AMA to point to it on whatever drive it is on. I've even managed to point to media on our backup NAS over the Gigabit LAN and use it for editing.

I find AMA revolutionary and I truly hope that there will not be any flaws or bugs in the feature that show up with time.

The AMA workflow is brilliant. Finally a cross platform solution. I primarily use FCP for my projects but this work flow will be excellent for projects where you may want to do an "off-line" on one system and then do the finishing on a more advanced system. Also really fast for news etc.

The AMA workflow is brilliant. Finally a cross platform solution. I primarily use FCP for my projects but this work flow will be excellent for projects where you may want to do an "off-line" on one system and then do the finishing on a more advanced system. Also really fast for news etc.


That sounds interesting Alister. Can you please elaborate on how you would do this? How would an Avid-project using AMA transfer to FCP and vice versa?

Sorry, I meant using Avid instead of FCP. I can't see a way of sharing the Quicktime .mov XDCAM files across platform, whereas if you cut on a Mac with MC3.5 you could then transfer the project to a PC with Avid.

Perhaps one day we will get native support for .mp4 and MXF's in FCP as well. I don't really understand why the files have to be re-wrapped to .mov to work. I guess it's some quirk of the OS.

Sorry, I meant using Avid instead of FCP. I can't see a way of sharing the Quicktime .mov XDCAM files across platform, whereas if you cut on a Mac with MC3.5 you could then transfer the project to a PC with Avid.

Perhaps one day we will get native support for .mp4 and MXF's in FCP as well. I don't really understand why the files have to be re-wrapped to .mov to work. I guess it's some quirk of the OS.

Of course - I was thinking Avid/FCP when you said cross platform, not Mac/PC.

Yes, it seems like Avid for once is one step ahead of FCP when it comes to EX implementation. About time if you ask me! :-)

Thanks guys,

I'm really excited about the possiblities of the new AMA workflow. It seems like Avid might have gotten this one right...

Best,
Don

I may be missing something re the workflow described above...
I'm sure I'm not the only one who will want to back up every BPAV folder to some other hard (not the one I'll be using for editing) before I start to edit. Does the AMA allow you to do this?
Thanks, Malcolm

I may be missing something re the workflow described above...
I'm sure I'm not the only one who will want to back up every BPAV folder to some other hard (not the one I'll be using for editing) before I start to edit. Does the AMA allow you to do this?
Thanks, Malcolm


Yes Malcolm, I think you missed number 2 in my new workflow (see below).

"The workflow I will be using will be very differnt from my old workflow.

1. Offload clips to HD. (My fast Avid Media drive)

2. Make backup to another HD.

3. Use AMA to point to the media on the fast Avid Media drive. And start editing."

However for quick turn around news I would not hesitate to edit straight off my SxS and consolidate when finished. Betacam SP-tapes have been used like this in news for decades and I would think an SxS card is even less prone to loose data in a short time perspective.

If you use Shotput you can off load to up to 3 separate locations at the same time, so you can make your working coy plus backup copy in one hit. While that is happening you can point Avid at the SxS cards to start editing. Once the copies have been completed simply point avid to the copies to continue editing.

It really does work quite well. I just setup up my laptop today and I'm been experimenting with 1080p 24 footage and 720p 30 footage and both work really well off on SxS cards, MxR cards and external USB drives. BTW, my laptop is a very average HP machine...nothing fancy.

This is a huge time saver and a great way to save HD space too. Well done Avid.

-Don

very exciting... thanks for the tips. I'm in the middle of a project so I'll try to wait until I've finished before upgrading to 3.5. But it's going to be hard.
Cheers, Malcolm

I have been very excited about the new AMA-feature of MC3.5. It's a great way to access P2 and XDCAM EX-media!

However, my excitement has turned into disappointment in the last couple of days due to the discovery of two serious audio problems that are probably related.

1. When applying an audiosuite effect onto an AMA-linked clip the MC freezes. After downmixing the audio this works well. I have not had this confirmed from other users. Please report back!

2. This is the serious and almost unbelievable one! When editing with AMA-media from XDCAM EX it is not possible to move or edit the audio into other tracks than track 1 and 2. If the media ends up on other tracks than 1,2 it is MUTE! The wave forms show but playback is muted. This was pointed out to me by another user in this forum and I just confirmed it. More confirmations would be interesting. How about P2?

I'd be very interested in confirmations on these two problems and especially would like to hear Avids view on this. How is it possible that you have released this feature without finding these problems?! When will they be fixed. As of now AMA is a useless feature.

I use Adobe Premiere CS3 together with a Matrox RTX2 card. I just transfer the clips to my computer using ClipBrowser and then open the clips in Premiere, no conversion is needed.

Premier has EXCam EX presets which cover all the EX formats.

Using the Matrox HD presets you can also bring in the EX clips but these are limited to 1440x1080 and 720

When editing with AMA-media from XDCAM EX it is not possible to move or edit the audio into other tracks than track 1 and 2. If the media ends up on other tracks than 1,2 it is MUTE! The wave forms show but playback is muted.

Hi Ola,
I'm curious about the problem you describe (wanting to upgrade to Avid 3.5 but still leery).
If you use AMA, but copy all the media you'll be editing with onto an external drive before you start editing, and if Avid knows that this is the media it's to use, then do you have this problem with muted tracks?
Thanks, Malcolm

Hi Ola,
I'm curious about the problem you describe (wanting to upgrade to Avid 3.5 but still leery).
If you use AMA, but copy all the media you'll be editing with onto an external drive before you start editing, and if Avid knows that this is the media it's to use, then do you have this problem with muted tracks?
Thanks, Malcolm

As far as I can tell this problem happens to all XDCAM EX media that is referenced as AMA-media no matter if it is on a drive or a memory card. If I consolidate it into Avid MXF-files everything works the way it should again.

Hi Ola,
O.K. So (until Avid corrects this glitch) what's your workflow now? Do you still use AMA, or are you back to using Clip Browser to convert to mxf? (I'm wondering if I should put off upgrading to 3.5 until this is fixed).
Malcolm

Hi Ola,
O.K. So (until Avid corrects this glitch) what's your workflow now? Do you still use AMA, or are you back to using Clip Browser to convert to mxf? (I'm wondering if I should put off upgrading to 3.5 until this is fixed).
Malcolm

Actually, Avid announced yesterday on their forum that they have found the bug and that a fix should not be far away. I´m currently editing a documentary that was ingested months ago and will be doing this for the next couple of months so I´m only using ama to play with for now.

Ola:

Did the AMA/audio timeline problem ever get the bug fixed?

And another question: have you tried bringing EX video into the AVID at an offline resolution, and then trying to re-digitize at full resolution? If so, what was the workflow, and how did it do?

Thanks!

Ola:

Did the AMA/audio timeline problem ever get the bug fixed?

And another question: have you tried bringing EX video into the AVID at an offline resolution, and then trying to re-digitize at full resolution? If so, what was the workflow, and how did it do?

Thanks!

As far as I can tell the bug is still there in 3.51. Unbelievable!!!

And no - I have not tried transcoding to an off-line resolution. The EX-format does not do proxies and I cannot see any reason downressing for editing. With todays hard disk prices why would you want to off-line 35 mbit EX-material?!

I have a major client that uses an AVID Unity/Interplay system, and handles almost all HDCam tape source material. I would like to eventually supply them with EX-3 video (either from the SDHC cards, or the Convergent Design Compact Flash cards at 100mbs 4:2:2)

However; their workflow is to import everything into the MC at 15:1, and then do a full rez conform on a Symphony, so they can keep their storage needs manageable. They are a little unsure how to handle the low rez import/conform with a file-based card source, not to mention the archiving issues.

Right now, I don't have anything intelligent to suggest to them. They are exploring adding XDCam Pro discs to their system in the near future, so I suppose there is a way to dump the EX-3 files onto the Pro disc and ship that off for starters.