Panasonic DMC-GH1 brief hands-on: Digital Photography Review (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0903/09030316lumixgh1handson.asp)

Provided the price isn't ridiculous this is my next camera.

"*Full-HD (1920 × 1080) movies are output by the image sensor at 24p (NTSC)/25p (PAL), and recorded at 60i (NTSC)/50i (PAL). HD (1280 × 720) movies are output and recorded by the image sensor at 60p (NTSC)/50p (PAL)."(from press release)
Sorry for the newbie question, but what exactly does this mean in terms of editing?

I might be wrong but it sounds like you will have to do the lame pulldown conversion to get 24P.
BTW , Hey Bert it's Lucasberg from Vimeo.

from the Panasonic site

**Shooting conditions: 23°C with 50% humidity; LCD on; using a Panasonic SD Memory Card (512MB); Using the supplied battery; Using the supplied lens; Starting recording 30 seconds after the camera is turned on (When the optical image stabilizer is set to [Mode1]) ; Recording once every 30 seconds with full flash every second recording; Turn the camera off every 10 recordings.The number of recordable pictures decreases in Auto Power LCD mode or Power LCD mode.CIPA is an abbreviation of “Camera & Imaging Products Association”.

Does this mean it has the same sensor overheating issue as the d90 and 5d ?

It still looks like it will be the DSLR to beat. AVCHD is a great recording format!

It is the DSLR to beat. Even though it has pulldown with the 24p the videos look nice (from what I've seen so far). 17Mbps AVCHD. The 60p is real 60p. The sensor is a little bigger than the D90. You have manual control of the shutter and aperture. I like this cam.

from the Panasonic site

**Shooting conditions: 23°C with 50% humidity; LCD on; using a Panasonic SD Memory Card (512MB); Using the supplied battery; Using the supplied lens; Starting recording 30 seconds after the camera is turned on (When the optical image stabilizer is set to [Mode1]) ; Recording once every 30 seconds with full flash every second recording; Turn the camera off every 10 recordings.The number of recordable pictures decreases in Auto Power LCD mode or Power LCD mode.CIPA is an abbreviation of “Camera & Imaging Products Association”.

Does this mean it has the same sensor overheating issue as the d90 and 5d ?
Hands-on with the Lumix HD-enabled DMC-GH1 (Four Thirds User) (http://fourthirds-user.com/2009/03/handson_with_the_lumix_hdenabled_dmcgh1.php)
“Internally, the GH1 differs from the G1 in having an improved LiveMOS Four Thirds sensor. Panasonic has improved low light sensitivity to improve high ISO performance. Heat management of the sensor has been modified to enable continuous shooting, without interruption, for as long as the user needs.”

It is the DSLR to beat. Even though it has pulldown with the 24p the videos look nice (from what I've seen so far). 17Mbps AVCHD. The 60p is real 60p. The sensor is a little bigger than the D90. You have manual control of the shutter and aperture. I like this cam. The 5D MkII is still king - but at a price. The FF35 sensor and 42mbps MPEG-4 codec are sweet. Hopefully, they will give us manual control (you can work around it), and 24/25p.

BTW, the D90 has a slightly larger sensor than the GH1. APS-C sensors are about 2/3rds that of a FF35 sensor. Micro 4/3rds is half the size of FF35.

I believe Panasonic is the only one releasing new DSLRs (and Olympus, I think) at PMA 2009. Nikon only intro'd a lens, same with Canon. I heard Sony wasn't as focused on their DSLRs.

heath

The 5D MkII is still king - but at a price.

One key thing I have been thinking about though is how much I rely on flip LCDs. This panasonic has it, while the 5D and D90 do not. I'm still waiting for this game to play out. Between Red, Canon, and now Panasonic, this year is bleeding edge for purchasing. I've been preferring to rent. Now let's see some raw footage from the DMC-GH1! :)

Shooting video on a DSLR seems like shooting stills on a pro video camera--adequate, but not ideal. I guess RED aims to solve that with their new systems.

heath

Is it confirmed to shoot 1080p using the full sensor? If so, does it use the same row skipping technique used in the 5D?

Does anyone know its price?

What sort of shutter? Rolling or "normal?"

Def interesting... perhaps this will force Canon's hand a bit.

john

For me the most important point is FullHD 24fps and shallow DOF. I've seen DOF tests from 1" sensors and they were more than ok to me. This sensor is even larger so if you put together everything:

- Sensor size a little smaller than a s35mm negative.
- FullHD recording.
- 24P.
- Full manual controls.

You have the closest to a really low cost digital cinema camera so far. That is hoping it's price is somewhere between a Nikon D90 and a Canon 5DMKII or (we can dream) even less.

Of course we'll have to see the rolling shutter in motion, it'll probably use the row skipping thing, so we can expect some artifacts and aliased borders and we still don't know if the compression will be too noticeable.

But this is looking really good...

Weren't there a lot of problems with the video from these cameras when you started panning? I thought Jannard from RED posted video from one that wobbled.

heath

Here’s are a couple of videos of it:
YouTube - PMA 2009: Panasonic Lumix GH1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiFRYQeowcw)
YouTube - PMA: Hands-on with the Panasonic Lumix GH1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akSvf1uvDXs)

Here is a couple of things to consider. The lens looks to be dark- F4-5.6. There is a wide (14-28mm), but also quite dark. So I don't know about the sharpness of the picture over all. Most of good lenses would have 2.8 or 1.8 aperture, 4 or 5.6 are just amateur grade only.
BTW- what would be an image difference between motion jpeg and AVCHD? Particularly with moving objects or panning?

Theirs also going to be a 20mm lens that’s either f1.7 or f1.4. The only problem is that it may get released around 3 months after the GH1, but then again, you can get yourself a few adapters if you want fast lenses right away.

AVCHD is significantly better than M-JPEG at the same bit rates. It just takes a bit more horsepower to edit it.

Let's say I have a nice set of Nikon lenses- what adapter would I have to use?

Let's say I have a nice set of Nikon lenses- what adapter would I have to use?

There may not be one yet, although if there isn't it probably won't take long. I believe there is a significant magnification factor when using full frame lenses. Anyone know offhand what it is? 2x?

Anyone know offhand what it is? 2x?Yes. Exactly 2x.

There's an advantage to using a less than FF35 sensor. You can crank your FF35 lenses open all the way, and not suffer any light falloff or softness in the corners, because they get cropped.

If I were to get the GH1, I'd probably get all 35mm glass, plus one MFT 12mm prime to cover the wide end of things.

Let's say I have a nice set of Nikon lenses- what adapter would I have to use?
Here’s some of them:
Panasonic Lumix G1 Lens Adapters (http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dx428wg_10fdvsmtd7)

I'm also interested in the downscale method/quality. The integrated nature of the live view from these EVF cameras may provide a better basis for the video, compared to how live view is implemented in traditional DSLRs. Look forward to finding out what's what with this camera and the Samsung NX series later this year. Oh, that camera doesn't have an articulated LCD -- damn, there's always something...

It seems like a huge step has been taken. The guy was quickly moving the camera while shooting and I couldn't really see any rolling shutter artifacts. At least as noticeable as in a Canon 5D or a Nikon D90.

Of course the camera used to record the clip was a bit far from the Lumix lcd and he was probably using the 720p60 mode so we'll have to wait and watch an actual video recorded at 1080p24.

Just a question. If you use EOS EF-S or Nikon DX lenses you'd get a smaller magnification factor wouldn't you?

This is one of the 4/3 cameras, so I don't know if Nikon or Canon lenses (etc.) would work...

heath

Just a question. If you use EOS EF-S or Nikon DX lenses you'd get a smaller magnification factor wouldn't you?

No, it would be the same 2x, but it would be an advantage in that they are generally wider for your dollar to help balance out the price/range.

Don't think of the 35mm equivalent focal length . For example the canon kit lens is 18-55mm. So in m4/3 terms, the 35mm equivalent would be 36-110 . Yet I haven't seen any ef-s adapters for m4/3 . There are FD adapters however . Please correct me if I'm wrong. Start looking at the forums for more sources , but here's one for adapters

japan exposures | films and more (formerly Megaperls Japan Webshop) (http://www.japanexposures.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=253)

they also sell a Leica M /m4/3 which , I believe allows you to use the Voigtlander lenses , which are excellent for their price .

More lens adapters from Here.

http://http//www.cameraquest.com/adapt_olyE1.htm

Looks like a dud for my needs, as it would not allow for a pro- quality stills. Maybe in the future they will figure it out, but the lens thing kills it right in the starting block.

A similar package with the Nikon D90 costs a little bit more than the $1,500 MSRP estimate and we all know that street prices are usually less although it wasn’t the case with the G1 but it still eventually went down by a lot after a couple of months.
Nikon | D90 SLR Digital Camera Kit with 18-200mm VR II Lens (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/595841-REG/Nikon__D90_SLR_Digital_Camera.html)
The Nikon lens is lightly faster but it doesn’t have all the features of the lens that’s coming with the GH1. You could still wait for the f1.4/f1.7 lens or get an adapter like I mentioned earlier.
Never mind the fact the older G1 is already similar in quality in broad daylight and for all we know, the GH1 may be similar to the Nikon D90 in low light situations since the Live MOS is newer. Never mind the fact that the video modes of the GH1 should be significantly better.

...also, 'full' progressive 50/60 (what i have been waiting for)

Robert - what are "pro quality stills " ? That's changing every year. I'd wait until still samples are posted in a number of sites before I make that conclusion , unless it's based on build quality . I think, maybe Panasonic has made the camera to beat for anyone remotely interested in stills and motion , but we gotta see the images and video to make a call .

A similar package with the Nikon D90 costs a little bit more than the $1,500 MSRP estimate and we all know that street prices are usually less although it wasn’t the case with the G1 but it still eventually went down by a lot after a couple of months.
Nikon | D90 SLR Digital Camera Kit with 18-200mm VR II Lens (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/595841-REG/Nikon__D90_SLR_Digital_Camera.html)
The Nikon lens is lightly faster but it doesn’t have all the features of the lens that’s coming with the GH1. You could still wait for the f1.4/f1.7 lens or get an adapter like I mentioned earlier.
Never mind the fact the older G1 is already similar in quality in broad daylight and for all we know, the GH1 may be similar to the Nikon D90 in low light situations since the Live MOS is newer. Never mind the fact that the video modes of the GH1 should be significantly better.
The VR lens is quite crap compared to high end lenses- you'll see it any time you blow up a pic for print. Most of the wide range zoom lenses are. If you look at the bag of any pro-photographer they mostly have something like 24mm, 28-70, 70-200, 50mm and maybe a fish eye. All of them are F2.8 or F1.8. Anyway- what cameras and lenses will give you pro- quality- just check here:Getty Images - Unsupported browser detected (http://www.gettyimages.com/?esource=googUSA_Brand_Terms&country=usa&kw=usa+getty_pictures).
Most of the houses will have a list of camera bodies and lenses accepted. D90 is not on the lists and you'd have a really hard time selling images from D90. Even with decent lenses I would never offer to shoot a paid gig (like a wedding) with anything below D200.

Robert - what are "pro quality stills " ? That's changing every year. I'd wait until still samples are posted in a number of sites before I make that conclusion , unless it's based on build quality . I think, maybe Panasonic has made the camera to beat for anyone remotely interested in stills and motion , but we gotta see the images and video to make a call .
Pro quality still is whatever houses like Getty Images or clients like Patagonia will buy. Even D90 is not on the list. Also a lens with F4.0 will never produce a decent picture you can make a larger print from. IMO this is more like a toy, most definitely it is not e serious still camera.

....no but 30d and 40d and d300 are all on the list , all 12mps or less (the 30d is only 8mps), and I have no idea why you think you can't print large from F4.0 lenses . That's got nothing to do with it. If you want to be sharper you're going to be shooting with a smaller f-stop anyway . The F4.0 lens limitation affects the lowlight video performance a lot more , or maybe the brokeh qualities for portraits in stills . Use a longer lens .

Robert Rogoz,

My post wasn’t completely directed at you although the part about using adapters was. Besides, I mentioned the Nikon D90 as an example to prove that the GH1 isn’t that much when you compare it to similar offerings.


Would this lens be considered a toy?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542293-REG/Canon_2746B002AA_EF_800mm_f_5_6L_IS.html

Robert - it's widely known the d90 has the same image engine as the d300 - getty just can't keep up with all of the new cameras - the d90 will produce identical files as the d300 - only in the exif data could you tell the difference - getty will be basing more on content than what new dslr is used - we have now reached the practical plateau for still images - Olympus is even announcing this very point today

Olympus: 12 Megapixels is Enough - Dave's Download (usnews.com) (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/daves-download/2009/03/05/olympus-12-megapixels-is-enough.html)

....no but 30d and 40d and d300 are all on the list , all 12mps or less (the 30d is only 8mps), and I have no idea why you think you can't print large from F4.0 lenses . That's got nothing to do with it. If you want to be sharper you're going to be shooting with a smaller f-stop anyway . The F4.0 lens limitation affects the lowlight video performance a lot more , or maybe the brokeh qualities for portraits in stills . Use a longer lens .
Kurth- Getty and other houses will not accept anything below D200. So D40, 60 and 70 are out. D2X, D2xs are on the list, so is D200, D300, D700 and D3.

Let's say I have a nice set of Nikon lenses- what adapter would I have to use?

You can use your lenses right now-- just get the Panasonic micro-4/3 to 4/3 adapter, and then one of the 4/3 to Nikon adapters.

Essentially, this camera can use any lens ever made that has sufficient coverage and is in a reasonably popular mount. There are new monts coming from panasonic that go directly from mFT to Leica M and R, there are third party lenses that go to Laica M, Canon FD, C-mount, PL mount, etc. And there's F/T adapters that go to all the popular 35mm lens mounts (which you can use with the mFT to FT adapter.)

Also a lens with F4.0 will never produce a decent picture you can make a larger print from. IMO this is more like a toy, most definitely it is not e serious still camera.

First off, if you want a still camera, get the G1, and put whatever lens on it you want. The 14-140 is a lens for the prosumer video market, and the GH1's sole purpose for existence is video.

Still, its a pretty serious still camera and your discounting it for the kit lens is kinda silly-- you don't have a lens as capable on any other SLR type camera-- in terms of shooting video, that is, which is its intended purpose.

Get an M adapter, and buy all the Leica glass you want.

This hands-on preview includes photos from the preproduction GH1.
Panasonic Lumix GH1 Hands-On Review Photography Bay | Digital Camera Reviews, News and Resources (http://www.photographybay.com/2009/03/06/panasonic-lumix-gh1-hands-on-review/)

The best source for lenses that will work well with this camera is Four Thirds (http://four-thirds.org)

There is a simulator that shows you how each lens will look on any given camera body, kind of like Thule have for checking out how a roof box will look on your car. Some of the four thirds lenses currently out will be compatible with this camera, but without the auto focus in video capture, the 14-140 is the first to do this. Most four thirds lenses will work, but with manual focus only, which for any serious film/video work is standard practice. You will need a 4/3 to micro 4/3 adapter though.

Some of the Olympus/Leica lenses in this format are really high performers and certainly professional grade.
Can't wait to see some real footage from this camera.

Adrian

Robert Rogoz,

My post wasn’t completely directed at you although the part about using adapters was. Besides, I mentioned the Nikon D90 as an example to prove that the GH1 isn’t that much when you compare it to similar offerings.


Would this lens be considered a toy?
Canon | EF 800mm f/5.6L IS USM Autofocus Lens | 2746B002AA | B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542293-REG/Canon_2746B002AA_EF_800mm_f_5_6L_IS.html)

I respectfully disagree Paulo. This Panasonic is 50/60p. This is now ready for production. 30p on the D90 is the worst of many options - i would have preferred interlaced rather than the 25/30p it offers.

Also the Panasonic has full manual controls and an audio input jack (for those that want to get an XLR adapter).

For me, I'm torn: wait for Nikon to release a camera similar and thus i can use all my Nikon lenses? or get this little beauty and shoot shoot shoot?

Frank , what's your source on the Olympus specs ?

I have owned a G1 (non HD video) since it was available. I have shot 5000 plus frames with it. At ISO 400 or below, the image quality is excellent. The first generation of the camera is certainly capable of producing usable professional images. There are many reviews available on the Internet with sample images. Certainly this would not be the camera of choice for serious landscape or studio photography. However, with its compact size, and unique features, this camera has great potential for the photojournalist or similar type assignments. I'll be on the waiting list for the GH-1 and am really looking forward to the HD video capability.

I never thought I would shoot any digital SLR other than Canon. I have an extensive collection of Canon Digital SLRs and many lenses. I will keep and use these cameras for serious landscape and studio work but I have added the G1 to my arsenal and I am extremely happy with it.

Finally, lens speed in not related to sharpness. A Leica 50mm Sumicron was always as sharp or sharper than Leica's faster 50mm lenses (Sumilux and Noctilux) when stopped down to F4 or F5.6. If you needed the speed these faster lenses were great but sharper at the same F stop, I would say no. There are may other historical examples of slower lenses with excellent sharpness such as most SLR macro lenses.

By the way, I have been lurking here for years and rarely post. I really do enjoy the refreshing design and features of the G1 and the Micro 4/3s system. I hope Olympus is not far behind in releasing a Micro 4/3s camera.

Frank , what's your source on the Olympus specs ?

Panasonic premieres DMC-GH1 with HD video recording: Digital Photography Review (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0903/09030315panasoniclumixdmcgh1.asp)

http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/0903/Panasonic/pana_gh1_mic.jpg

Panasonic DMC-GH1 brief hands-on: Digital Photography Review (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0903/09030316lumixgh1handson.asp)

Panasonic Lumix GH1 preview (http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/21656/panasonic-lumix-gh1-review/)

...there's a couple of other good ones i cannot find.

enjoy!


I just realised I've been saying Olympus instead of Panasonic.

yeah - that's confusing - we all know the gh1 specs but I haven't seen any hard specs out of Olympus yet - although they say they're releasing this summer

So anyone knows when will the pana be released?

They plan to release it in June.
Cameratown Live from PMA 2009 - Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1 Demonstration on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/3505744)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beHVnyvF0fI