Hi forum,

we have a big problem:

We own two EX1 cameras, everything works fine. Then one EX1 gets an unintendionally dive in a swimming pool. Bad Bad...we have a video...the camera was running... :)

So we have to buy a new one. This new Model Production Date Dez08 has a freaking jerky zoom. If you try to do a slow zoom, no crawling zoom, its stops frequently.

Here is a link for an Example Footage:

RapidShare Webhosting + Webspace (http://rapidshare.de/files/45797751/ex1fehler.wmv.html)

We send the camera in (Silver Support in Europe), got the camera back, same problem. Send the camera in again: Answer from Sony "That is a normal behavior". mmh..they asked the Product Manager !! same answer from him: That Video looks normal, no defect. He also mention that the zoom speed on the Video is very low and so that is normal because a zoom speed under 10 doesn´t work.

After some dicsussion they send us a brand new camera (Firmware 1.12) with the comment: You know that your camera is not defect and the new camera will do the same".

We think: bla bla..because we know that can´t be normal. And we owned two EX1 without any Problems.

But then: The new camera arrives today with the same jerky zoom. I can not belive that this is normal. Can anybody confirm that their EX1 has the same jerky zoom and if this is a normal behavior for an EX1??

I got the jerky zoom with the large zoom handle or extremly with the ZOE or Manfrotto Remote Control. No Problems with the Top handle with fixed speed.

Thanks in advance for any feedback

Did you show the product manager the footage from the other EX1 camera you have that didn't take a dive? Or any unjerky footage? That's what I would do.

my zooms are not jerky from slow to fast i am on 1.11

I bought the EX1 in Dec 2007. It had the jerky zoom under 10. I sent it back in Feb 2008. They confirmed the issue and replaced the camera. It's now smooth down to 2.

I have no idea why they're treating you like this. You should simply say you KNOW it's not normal because you've tested other EX1s and they should honor their warranty and repair or replace the camera.

I also had a terrible jerky zoom on slow zoom speed. I took it into Sony Canada and they're in the process of replacing the lens on my EX1 right now. They told me that it would be covered under warranty and that it would take about 48 hours to complete.
Now if only they didn't change for firmware upgrades up here! :(

Thank You for your replys. So it seems that a jerky zoom is not really common...

Thanks Chris for the idea. We done a side by side test. One of our old EX1 / with the band new EX1.

Here is the link

RapidShare Webhosting + Webspace (http://rapidshare.de/files/45818379/ex1fehler2.wmv.html)

We found something else: Both cameras had exact the same settings, but you can see in the video the color is reall different? Huh? Maybe they changed something in the new Firmware 1.12? Thats bad because we use the camera in a multiple ex1 setup....so when every EX1 has a different color...good night.

That is really unbelievable.

After many calls they said "We cannot help you, that is really normal. A Zoom Speed under 10 ist not guaranteed"

What???

So if you have luck you got a camera like the left one in the video, if not you got the right one. That can not be true...

I understand that a zoom speed of 1 or 2 may be not really smooth but 10?

So when this is normal why nobody in the forum crys that out? Or am i fussy?

Now i want this in written form, but that do not help me either. :(...bad bad...

Or am i fussy?

Not at all. It is unacceptable. I've heard of this issue a few times before over the last 18 months. My EX1 does not exhibit this trait - it had vignette, backfocus and power issues, which are now all fixed. Jerky Zoom would, in the UK at least, make this camera 'not fit for purpose'.

The trouble is that Sony and its dealers are made up of a great many people, and by the law of averages, there will be some people in that huge group who just don't get it. But attempts at bucking the system will also be futile (or you get really lucky), so it's a case of escalating your case and continually making the point that your unit is a 'lemon' - if you'll excuse the Brit parlance.

A thought - if the EX1 came out of the Z1-7 stable, I doubt we'd have these conversations. But I guess they wouldn't be quite so insanely great? A bit like how the BBC allegedly used to buy Manfrotto tripods - 'show me a dozen and I'll find three that work and buy them'.

Time to take it up with Sony corporate, methinks.
And time to name names, as in calling out the names of those managers who aren't prepared to go the long haul with professionals using professional products.
The EX1 isn't a consumer item.

I would totally bring it up with Sony corporate.
I just received mine back from Sony Canada (which was 3 1/2 months out of warranty) and they just finished replacing the entire lens in order to fix the jerky zoom problem. And yes, it did fix the problem. It's nice and smooth at #2 zoom.

Justin just so you know Sony Canada will do a firmware update for free if the update is not a feature update. On the EX1 the firmware update allowed EX1 owners to use USB devices from the Express Card slots so you don't have to buy expensive SxS cards for straight ahead shooting. If the update is to squash only software bugs, like the recent one on the EX3, then Sony Canada does the update at no charge.

as things are now:

Prime Support will send me a second new EX1. They can not test the unit for a jerky zoom before shipping, because its brand new:(.

So i have my fingers crossed....i let you know.

Edited an interview that was shot on EX 1 and there was a slow (and yes, jerky) zoom in at a point in time during the 5 min interview.

It is sad. Now i got it handwritten that Sony does not guarantee the working of a Remote Control. We have two EX1 cameras which works perfectly with the Bebob Zoe and the Manfrotto EX521, but the third camera get us the zoom as you can see in the video. Sony send us two new cameras -> same behaviour

Sony say:

"We are unable to guarantee functionality with non-SONY products and In my opinion the unit is working correctly as to our expectations"

They won´t test the Camera with the Remote Conrtol because it is not a Sony product ??? Sony doesn´t has a Remote Control.

Because of the small feedback i can not believe that is really normal or doesn´t anybody use a remote control like the bebob or the zoe?

So please: Who has a jerky slow Zoom with a Remote Control and who not (configuration/how old is your camera model)??

I had issues with my EX3 lens, zoom would not work slow, it was very jerky. I got a replacement lens from Sony, it took about 10 days. My dealer lent me a spare lens while mine was at the Sony service center.

When I got the new lens I had to set the Back Focus and it worked perfectly. I actually did it outdoors with a person holding BF chart, I was amazed that it worked.

I have not had any issues since.

Olof Ekbergh

Hanno, try the zoom without the remote control. Try setting the top handle "fixed" zoom to a number like 2. If the zoom is jerky it has NOTHING to do with the remote control and I wouldn't even reference it in a trouble report.

Connection inside the camera can go bad too. If the camera exhibits the same issue with multiple remotes then the camera is at fault. Sony MUST test the contact point.

Why are they giving you such a hard time? It seems all the rest of us with zoom issues around the world have had lens or camera replaced when the issue was discovered.

Sony say: "We are unable to guarantee functionality with non-SONY products and In my opinion the unit is working correctly as to our expectations"

They won´t test the Camera with the Remote Conrtol because it is not a Sony product ??? Sony doesn´t has a Remote Control.

So there are three issues here really:
1. Jerky slow zoom
2. Different behaviour of the EX1's with 1.12 as opposed to older units
3. Use of non-Sony accessories

Jerky zoom may be an issue with the lens gears or servos, or possibly dirt. If that is the case jerkiness would also be present when you set the Zoom Speed preset and use the remote or handle. A.f.a.i.k. there is no mention that speeds under 10 would not be "guaranteed to work".

In my opinion if slow zoom speed is jerky on a new camera this should be fixed under warranty. For the "under 10" claim ask Sony not for confirmation in writing, but where this is mentioned in the cameras documentation (i.e. manual, datasheet, etc.).

The differences in behaviour between units with different firmware may indicate that there is a possible issue with that newer firmware version. Possibly the slow zoom function is not working as it should. This can only be verified by loading a version that is known to work correctly and this has to be preformed by Sony support (as users cannot upgrade the firmware themselves). Since this is a new cam and Sony should deliver a working unit they should support this effort.

Sony has no (or very limited) responsibilities to support 3rd party accessories and doesn't support end users of those products. You should contact Manfrotto/Bebob for support for the zoom controllers. It may be that the Sony firmware change has sparked an incompatibility with these controllers. Downgrading the firmware may help here as well.

If there is a problem with the lens/gears/servos (test with remote) send it back to be fixed. Also have them downgrade the firmware to the same version as on your other camera's.

You also may want to ask Manfrotto/Bebob is there are compatibility issues with 1.12.

regards,
George.

Why are they giving you such a hard time?

While I agree that things have not moved forward smoothly, they have send him a couple of new cams already so I suspect it is not unwillingness but more of a "not knowing how to handle this" issue.

George/

Today i got a call from Bebob with their explanations:

He told me that he never had one EX1 which works perfectly with a Remote Control. This is because the PMW-EX1 uses his own protocol from Fujinon with 3V and not the Broadcast Protocol which uses 5V. The reason for 3V is to safe energy.

It is also an analog protocol. He told me that there is no Remote Control in market which works perfectly with the EX1/EX3 models because the manufacturing tolerance for the lens is to large. And with the 3V protocol the electricity flow is very low to move so much glas and so at times the lens get stucked. And so it is.

He also said that the main handle do not go over the protocol, it is directly connected to the lens and so there is no jerky zoom. I also told me that many many people called him with the same problem.....i did not read anything about that problem.

The proctocol does not allow to control the foucs, so you can not use the camera on a crane.

By the way my Top Zoom handle set to speed of 2 works just fine...so it mus be the rc

mmh...

So what is the clue? He told me to use a manual zoom wheel like from chrosziel :) and that we can be very lucky to have two EX1 which working perfectly with the Remote Control.

So who can confirm a slow zoom like in the video with a remote control - jerky or not?

My Libec controller is ok, model ZC-9EX, my colleague also has the libec on his EX1 and he hasn't reported any issues either.

Paul.

My Libec controller is ok, model ZC-9EX, my colleague also has the libec on his EX1 and he hasn't reported any issues either.

Paul.

Mine as well - no issues.

no one has a Beob or a Manfrotto Remote Control?

May be we need a libec...

I have a Bebob remote and haven't had any issues with a jerky zoom since Sony Canada replaced my lens.

no one has a Beob or a Manfrotto Remote Control?

Maybe open a new topic asking for users' experience regarding zoom issues with the Bebob or Manfrotto? Something like "What's you experience: Bebob/Manfrotto zoom controllers?"

George/

I have the Manfrotto 521EX control. I got it over the Bebob because of the lower price and it seemed to have more features. It's a solidly built control, however at even the lowest dialed setting on the Manfrotto max speed dial, you still have to be gentle with the rocker or it will go faster than the lowest speed. On my Lanc Bebob, which I love, the lowest dialed in setting, the rocker would only go at one speed, which is a lot easier to use. The rocker on the Manfrotto is a bit smaller than the Bebob, so not quite as ergonomic, but it seems a little less fragile than the Bebob Lanc, which I did send in once because the dial broke (it just kept spinning with no stop anymore).

As far as smoothness, I have one of the very early EX1's and it's pretty darn smooth, so I guess I'm lucky.

My Manfrotto 521ex is silky smooth, compared to what I can see in the example clip.

And, it's capable of creep zooms lasting over 2 mins from end to end!

So, a few weeks ago Sony Canada replaced my lens because of the jerky zoom.
But now this new lens had a few more difficulties. Sometime it wouldn't zoom at all and other times (randomly) I could only achieve a minimum focus of about 15 feet on full manual. It was really weird.
Sony now has my camera again and is now changing it up with 'another' new lens. We'll see how this one handles now.

I have the Bebob for my EX1 and it's really sticky at low speeds. Unusable to be honest.
So I have to zoom at higher speeds and try to start and end zooms quicker.

The rockers on the camera are OK.

Surely the best approach would be to have a power supply in the controller, such as a 9v battery. This could then be a digital device supplying a variable voltage to the camera lens.

from my experience, and from what folks have posted here, it's not a problem of remote zooms being compatible. and regardless of what Sony America may be trying to put it off to, it isn't a function of the slow zoom setting when using the software speed control in conjunction with the top, handle-mounted zoom rocker.

on my ex3 (only a few weeks old) the problem is present with remote zooms, with the primary rocker at the lens, and with the handle-mounted rocker set at slow speed.

having found the threshold of activation, starting from full wide, the zoom will pulse or stutter under a constant rocker position. it moves, then stops or slows, without any change to the rocker. i thought that maybe if i started slow, then quickly accelerated to move past this problem point in the control, that i could ramp into a faster zoom. not a fix, but still looking for *some functionality.* the attempt to ramp up the zoom also induced a stall at exactly the point when more pressure was applied to the rocker.

it isn't possible to do anything but a medium-to-fast zoom. try shooting an interview like that. or any shot where you might want a soft squeeze.

our dealer (EC Pro Vid, in Manhattan) have been very supportive and offered the use of an ex1 as a loaner. they sent our ex3 to Teaneck for us and this past week i spoke to the tech at Sony. he started to tell me that if the problem was with the top handle-mounted rocker, controlled by the camera's software, that Sony didn't care. i told him i don't really care about that rocker either, i never use it anyway. i would like to be able to use a remote zoom, but since i can't even use the primary rocker for slow zooms, they need to address that.

if you can't use the primary rocker to properly control the zoom, then it's no surprise that a remote won't work. this is not a problem of third party remote compatibility.

from reading here and elsewhere i proceeded with the purchase with the understanding that this problem on earlier cameras had been addressed. it seems to have come back with newer cameras though. i certainly hope Sony America sees fit to fix it, as it's unusable as it is and a bit too expensive to eat the loss or let it go. as this problem becomes more widespread it can't encourage new purchases.

i'll post my results.

Here we go again...

In April i found an exhibit EX1 with no jerky Zoom. I was happy...

Until November...the focus stopped working..so i had to send the camera to Sony.

Sony replaced the lens....ouch.

And here we go again: Now i get a so damn bad jerky Zoom, you can´t even use the Bebob or the Manfrotoo Lens Controller. But now the main Zoom handle works badly too. 2 of 5 times i get a jerky Zoom --> Here you can see one example:

RapidShare Webhosting + Webspace (http://rapidshare.de/files/48816854/Beispiel.wmv.html)

Sony say: Thats normal. No Replacment. ouch.

Am i to fussy and is that really normal....? I can´t believe that.

By the way the labeling on the camera went off. 8 buttons with no labeling. I want, like Sony did before, that they replace the body. But now they say: Sorry this is abrasion, no replacement. Ouch again.

When I first got my EX1 in December 2007 I had Jerky Zoom. Sony replaced the entire camera when I sent it in in February 2008. It's smooth down to #2 setting in the menu.

Many people had the same issue with EX1 and EX3 as well with stock lens. I think Sony found that the specs were too tight and that Fujinon was very much hit and miss in the manufacturing process so they changed their policy. I understand the EX1R doesn't allow a setting below 8 or something similar.

I have a Zoe controller that worked fine with my EX1. Upon using it with my new EX1R I find I have the "stuttering zoom" problem. Most prevalent with the Zoe set to half speed or less and half depression of the Zoe's rocker switch. Worse on zoom outs than zoom ins.

Carroll Lam

It may be possible to free up the stiction in the pinion and ring gear. With the cam powered OFF, put the zoom switch in the servo position, and work the zoom ring back and forth (gently) a few times so that it backdrives the pinion gear and servo motor.

Like Craig's, mine zooms smoothly all the way to about 2, I think.

Ouch!

Tom, I wouldn't do that...

A Libec controller solved my problem. See the thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/467250-libec-zoom-controller-ex3-promo.html#post1461080

Carroll Lam

Okay, we just took delivery of our new EX3. Got it from B&H Photo. Used it yesterday for the first time (previously I had used a different EX3 at an old company I no longer work for). Anyway, I'm experiencing the jerky zoom problem. But here's what I'm experiencing...

1) I slowly.....I mean VERY slowly started zooming on my subject. (I don't think anyone could push the zoom control any slower than I did)
2) Sometimes the zoom would simply start zooming and would look great (just a slow creep) But other times nothing would happen, so I'd push a little more and then suddenly the zoom would jerk and zoom in real quickly and then slow to a crawl.

I'm guessing the problem is the switch? Is this the same problem the rest of you are having? I'm thinking of calling Sony. Any suggestions?

Thanks! :) (this is a great forum!)

Michael,

That is how the problem shows up. It is usually the same with a remote controller as well.

Make B&H take the camera back if it is brand new. And have them send you a new one.

If you send it to service it will take a while.

Thanks for the advice Olof. I'll call B&H this morning. (I'm crossing my fingers)

So I want to do some testing before I send it off. Craig said there's a way you can set the zoom on the handle so that the zoom will slowly creep? Are those settings in the Menu somewhere? (sorry my camera's not in front of me)

Michael,

It is in the menu settings, under camera set. This is from the EX1R manual, but it is really similar for the EX3. I don't have the pdf for the EX3 handy.

Zoom Speed
Setting the zoom
speed
High
8 to 99 (70)
Set the speed of zooming to be executed when you press the
on-handle ZOOM button with the zoom speed switch set to
H.
Low
8 to 99 (30)
Set the speed of zooming to be executed when you press the
on-handle ZOOM button with the zoom speed switch set to L.
Remote
8 to 99 (50)
Set the speed of zooming to be executed when you press the
ZOOM button of the IR Remote Commander.
Note
If the infrared line from the Remote Commander is not
received properly, zooming may not operate smoothly.


You can set the old EX3's all the way to 1. My EX3 will work well from 2-99. 1 is pretty iffy.

Okay, I just did some testing. I think I've determined the problem is a "gear lash" issue. It's only when I switch from zooming out to zooming in that there is a small jerk. For example:

If I zoom all the way out to start a shot, then at the appropriate time, I try to slowly start zooming in, almost every time there will be a slight jerk at the beginning of my zoom. But once I start zooming, it stays smooth for the duration of the zoom.

If on the other-hand I zoom all the way out and then zoom in just slightly – then when I slowly start zooming in there is no jerk.

I'm using a combination of the zoom on the hand grip and the zoom on top of the handle. I set the zoom on top of the handle to a very slow speed of 2 (thanks Olof!) and it works fine all the way through, from one end to the other. It's only when I switch from zooming out to zooming in that there is a slight jerk. I wonder if this is a problem with the large (more expensive) broadcast cameras as well? Dunno...

Can someone else verify that this is the same problem they have had with jerky zoom?

I don´t understand why this issue is not big issue here in the forum.

For my cam i got a final answer from Sony "That is normal, no replacement". From my Dealer: Sorry we can not do anything.

Here is my last example for the jerky zoom. I used the main zoom handle.

I don´t think that this can be normal. But what can i do ? Buy a new one and hope it will be better

Yesterday i had my fingers on one EX1r and what happend, jep this one had the jerky zoom too. Not as bad as mine, but i can reproduce it with the main handle when i do slow zooms. So i believe that is really normal and you need a little bit luck if you buy a EX camera.

Sad story.
-Hanno

This is some good information. I was seriously shopping for an EX1R but after reading about all of this my purchase is going on the back burner until Sony gets this all straightened out. Thanks guys.

Hanno,

If that clip shows the best result you can get. I would take that camera back to my dealer for a replacement.

Mine are much smoother. I had Sony give me a new lens more than a year ago on my EX3 because of bad zooming. But it was actually better than that.

My dealer even gave me a loaner lens while Sony was checking my lens. I only had to send the lens not the camera to sony. It was an EX3 not an EX1.

So can anyone confirm that their "jerky zoom" is when they switch from zooming all the way out, to a slow creep zooming in?

I don´t understand why this issue is not big issue here in the forum.

For my cam i got a final answer from Sony "That is normal, no replacement". From my Dealer: Sorry we can not do anything.

Here is my last example for the jerky zoom. I used the main zoom handle.

I don´t think that this can be normal. But what can i do ? Buy a new one and hope it will be better

Yesterday i had my fingers on one EX1r and what happend, jep this one had the jerky zoom too. Not as bad as mine, but i can reproduce it with the main handle when i do slow zooms. So i believe that is really normal and you need a little bit luck if you buy a EX camera.

Sad story.
-Hanno

Hanno, I'm curious, if you would have used the fixed zoom on the top of the handle, would you have experienced the multiple jerks during the length of your zoom?

Anyone else care to chime in with similar experience?

There are certainly issues there. Having been using my Z1 the other week I was struck by how much easier it was to slowly ramp zooms on that camera compared to the EX1. Frequently a shot can be ruined by the fact that you are slowly decreasing your zoom speed only for it to come to a sudden halt or slightly judder.

You can work around it, and the top zoom switch gives you smooth zooming, but not with a variable speed.

One thing I have noticed is the problem is far more pronounced in 25p compared to 50i (have never shot 50p).

I'm convinced it is some kind of electrical issue though as others have reported that the problem can be solved with a zoom remote.

Thanks! :)

Has anyone noticed that it's worst when you've just finished zooming out and want to slowly zoom back in again? My zoom is at it's worst when it has to switch directions.

I'm convinced it is some kind of electrical issue though as others have reported that the problem can be solved with a zoom remote.

I wish I could share your optimism. I have a Bebob Zoe-EX, and an EX1 to compare with. The EX1 was faultless in gentle zooms. The EX1-R has been stuttery, with and without the remote, though I do better with the remote. I've got tests using the top zoom rocker which also display stuttering. But all subtlety is lost if doing a gentle creep zoom that ends up like Morse Code in motion.

I felt it was more of a lubrication thing. Stiction, if you will.