So Matt, the zoom stutters even when using the hand-grip zoom?

Mine does. Yes.

Quite happy to be told that I'm ham-fisted and it's my inability to operate a zoom control, but whilst I can (if you can excuse the term) squeeze off a creep on the EX1R, it's a bit of a gamble on the EX1R.

To the extent that I'm thinking of nominating the EX1 as the main camera for talking head shoots until I can get the EX1R 'seen to'. If that is ever a possibility.

I wish I could share your optimism. I have a Bebob Zoe-EX, and an EX1 to compare with. The EX1 was faultless in gentle zooms. The EX1-R has been stuttery, with and without the remote, though I do better with the remote. I've got tests using the top zoom rocker which also display stuttering. But all subtlety is lost if doing a gentle creep zoom that ends up like Morse Code in motion.

I felt it was more of a lubrication thing. Stiction, if you will.

There were reports on here before Christmas of users trying out one of the remotes and finding that it seemed to solve the issue. I've not so I can only report what was on here.

That said, the zoom on the top of the unit will do creeping zooms all day long without stuttering and very low speeds. It's the rocker that has the issue. But obviously the top control has a number of limitations including the fact it cannot vary speed.

If it was sticking I would have expected the very slow zooms from the top button to also give problems.

Having been using my Z1 the other week I was struck by how much easier it was to slowly ramp zooms on that camera compared to the EX1.

As a present owner of a Z1 and an EX3, I would agree 100% with your statement

There were reports on here before Christmas of users trying out one of the remotes and finding that it seemed to solve the issue. I've not so I can only report what was on here.

Marcus, this is the thread you want...

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/467250-libec-zoom-controller-ex3-promo.html

... I have the Libec remote and it does, for all intent and purpose, solve the problem. Really.

Hi all,

i just want to confirm that i reduce the "jerky zoom" with the Libec Controller.

My first one was an Bebob Zoe. Extrem Jerky Zoom. Bebob said: That is Sony fault

My second one was a Manfrotto. Extrem Jerky Zoom.

My third now is the Libec: And finally. Zoom is OK now. Not perfect but ok.

I can't speak for the EX1, but the Varizoom Pro EX I have on my EX3 is butter smooth, and I can dial in any speed I want.

VariZoom | VZ-Pro-EX Comfort-Grip Zoom Controller | VZ-PRO-EX

It depends on the lens you get. I went through 3 fuji w/a lenses before finding one that would work with the manfrotto, meantime the libec worked fine with all 3 of the fuji lenses. so if you are lucky enough to get one of the finer tuned fuji lenses, then any controller will work. good luck playing that guessing game

Man, this is NOT what I want to read as I prepare to fork over $7,500 of my hard-earned money! Any other issues I need to be aware of? And should I be considering some other brand? Thanks in advance for your input.

Any later updates to the "jerky zoom" mess?

We just got a new EX1R down for a shoot in Brazil and it's jerky as all get out!

Blast Sony anyway! That burns us bigtime and we will not be burned twice! If Sony does not make right on this, we're done with them. Lots of other nice competition these days...do you hear SONY?

So any new light on this since March?

Here's some ammo.

I have a 2 month old EX1R. I recorded 4 techniques for doing the slowest possible zoom on it. Only the first two (handle and lens controller techniques) result in reliable constant slow zooms. Note that the lens controller is able to eek out a slightly slower zoom than the handle's minimum.

The second two techniques use the rotating handgrip's rocker which illustrates the well known stuttering problem. I think this is because the handgrip is able to attempt a zoom speed below the lens's rated minimum speed. This results in a stutter and uneven zoom. Personally, I never do slow handheld zooms while recording and I'll take the exclusive rotating handgrip and low-light performance of the EX1R over the competition any day. But it would be nice if there was a fix to the handgrip controller as the lens seems to be able to perform a single speed zoom albeit not as slow as some others. <insert standard disclaimer about each camera having plusses and minuses>.

Getting the slowest possible zoom with the EX1R on Vimeo

Lee, we have exactly the same controller as you and our results suck bigtime. Same jerkola as the handgrip rocker.

I cannot imagine that Sony would even have the courage to put their name on a camcorder of this level with such poor quality servo design. Fujinon should be red-faced to have their names even connected with such a piece of trashy work. Extremely aggravating when their 250 dollar handy cam has lightyears better quality performance than their so-called "professional line". What a joke.

I found that I cannot run the VG PG-EX with it's speed dial at the minimum. The lens doesn't budge until the dial reaches a certain point. But once it starts moving, it then goes smoothly all the way. What about yours? Can you set your speed dial to reproduce the same 20 second push with your VG PG-EX?

I have three EX3 and a EX1. Using the Varizoom controller, ALL of them, when trying for the slowest possible zoom speed, stutter. IMHO, I believe this was deliberately made as a feature so that 'pros' will pony up for the more expensive 350. Jerky slow zoom is one of the few issues I have with the EXs and I would love to have a solution.

I believe this was deliberately made as a feature so that 'pros' will pony up for the more expensive 350. Jerky slow zoom is one of the few issues I have with the EXs and I would love to have a solution.

I have had a bunch of Sony cameras. The best zoom was on my old Sony Hi8. Absolutely perfect. It was also the least expensive of all of the ones I purchased thereafter. I think it is just carelessness on their part and not intentional.

John

I believe there is a design problem with these lenses, even if they don't all show the symptom.

These lenses are incredible good for the price really. I think the problem is that in order to make an inexpensive lens work this well optically, there are a lot of internal parts that move when you zoom or focus even, and I think Fuji simply did not put in strong enough servo motors to handle all the gearing. They did not realize this right away and now they have made a lot of them.

I would hope that the next version will fix this. It is sad that the fix on the EX1R is simply to not support slow zooming. But I guess it is a case of you get what you pay for. Most lenses with similar specs would cost more than a EX1R.

I have an old EX3 that Sony replaced the lens on, and it runs pretty smoothly, though not as nicely as a real Pro lens (those start at around $8,000.00). I also have fairly new EX1R and that one is "within Sony Specs" but not as smooth as the old one. It will zoom down to about 4 (now just symbols below 8 in EX1R) and my old one works down to 1 sometimes 2 when it is cold.

If I was to buy a new EX cam I would buy it from a Brick and Mortar dealer and test it to make sure the lens is good before paying for it. I realize not everyone can do this but it is what I like to do now, or use a vendor that will allow a return/exchange without penalty. Many "mail order stores" will do this now just check before you buy.

I have a jerky EX1 and a jerky 350K, I sent both to prime support but they didn't fix it. Now I ordered a ZA17x7.6BERM, but that's probably what the wanted me to do in the first place! I sure hope that the new lens is as sharp as the stock lens was.

What Olof said. Buy it from a real store with real customer service, better yet from a Sony dealer with a loud voice that's clearly heard in Japan.

Failing that, use a movie-style zoom motor setup. I have a tiny old Heden unit with memory controller that works perfectly every time. But then again I come from film, not TV, so I've had that one awhile.

HTH
Cheers!
Chris

When I bought my EX1 from a brick and mortar store in late 2007 it had a jerky zoom below 10 (handle speed). I sent it in and after three weeks Sony told me they could not fix it and sent me a replacement camera. That camera can do a nice creep zoom at 2. Sony later changed their policy about this as they apparently fount the spec was too tight to do that given the price of the camera and lens. Since this is an important feature for me, it's one big reason why I've not moved to a 1R. If I ever do sell the EX1 you bet I'm going to boldly advertise that it's a rare smooth zooming version.

But I guess it is a case of you get what you pay for. Most lenses with similar specs would cost more than a EX1R.

I think people overuse that expression IMO to explain design or quality control issues away.
As I said, my old Sony TRV-85 Hi8 camera had the best zoom controller I have ever used. Perfectly ramped up and down from a snail's crawl to fast zoom. The camera was under $1000 new. Haven't been able to match it since.

John

I think engineering a 3 ring lens with 1/2" HD glass that allows full manual focus with stops on focus, zoom and iris rings makes the lens a bit more complicated than the tiny sensor TRV 85 with SD glass. That's what I paid for (and got) :-)

You can pay more and get a smoother crawling XF but have to throw a switch when you want to use the zoom ring vs rocker.

I just spent $330.00 on a bebob lens controller. the result is horrible. It's unusable for slow creep in zooms. My EX-1r is 2 months old. I get the same stop/start as the video shows. Not sure what the best course of action is.

G'day David,

I've had my camera (EX1R) for just a couple of weeks and am very disappointed to find that I, too, am a victim. I set up a shot transition which was essentially just a zoom. I deliberately made it a fairly small zoom and then set the transition time to 15 seconds. I also configured the start and end of the transition to be slow. This would force the transition to zoom the lens very slowly - in fact I have a feeling that this may actually override the setting of "8" in the zoom speed settings.

Anyway, what a disaster. The start and end of the zoom are noticeably jerky,while the middle bit was just passable. Everything else about this camera is great, but this zoom thing is a real piss-off.

Cheers

Russ

I was lucky with my EX3 more than 3 years ago, Sony actually replaced my lens, and my dealer gave me a loaner while Sony had my jerky lens. The replacement lens still works on 2, even 1 if it is not cold.

My EX1R only works well from 4 and up. I understand that Sony now does not guarantee any speed below 8. This is really unfortunate, and I guess their way of dealing with hundreds if not thousands jerky lenses.

My suggestion is if you can buy your camera from a brick and mortar dealer, go there and pick it up. Don't accept the camera unless it is smooth.

If you got it from a web dealer, then just send it back. Most good dealers offer money back in the first 30 days.

This is not a good situation and it is too bad that this is a dark cloud over a great couple cameras. I do understand the complexities of moving so many elements in a lens to keep focus throughout zoom range, it is a great design and an inexpensive solution to an expensive solution (great HD zoom lens for a couple grand). It is too bad Sony/Fuji only hit the 80% mark on this lens.

Other than jerky zoom it really is an excellent lens that matches these cameras well. I always tell people about this problem if they ask my opinion on this camera, and I think a few shooters have actually gone with Canons, JVCs or Panys instead because of this. But I also tell people what a great camera it is in general, for this price point.

My next camera, and I am not selling my EX3 or EX1R, is actually a Pany AF100 -- No power zoom at all. Zooming is not the most important thing in a lens.

I wish I had something more positive to contribute on this subject, but there you are.

Like Olof, I must have been very lucky with my EX1's lens, as well. It can do very slow zooms at the speed of 1 or 2 without any problems. Using my Manfrotto 521ex controller, my camera is capable of almost 2 mins from W to T, and back!

Also, the zooms with the grip rocker can even be ramped, although this depends on my general fitness on a given day :)

I ...Other than jerky zoom it really is an excellent lens that matches these cameras well. .... But I also tell people what a great camera it is in general, for this price point....

Olof, I guess I'd agree with everything you've said: this is a great cam and lens for the money, with extraordinarily good output...minus the stupid jerky zoom. I was mad as hell at Sony at first, but now? We just have to put things in their proper perspective. Sony was stupid for risking their future sales with this nice cam sold with such poor slow zooms, but....

the real BOTTOM LINE IS: Forget using the power zoom for those slow zooms and buy a mechanical wheel/rails zoom adapter. It's way better, and actually a very cheap investment for an excellent cam in every other way.

Stephen, what kind of mechanical wheel zoom device are you talking about? I am familiar with wireless solutions but these are out of the budget of most here.

Hallo
i have a 521ex Manfrotto controller, the EX1 has worked perfectly on EX1R is a disaster.I make zoom is like jumping into the frame.what can be done?
Thanks

it was a mechanical rings setup. Will look for it

I will check tonight mine (ex1r), but I am pretty sure I've noticed some jerkiness (?) when doing really slow zoom using the rotating grip switch

will report laters

The zoom is jerky at speeds below 8 when the lens is pointed down. When level or pointed up it smooth even at low speeds.

At least that's how my ex1 behaves...

I am a little confused

are you experiencing this issue with the main zoom switch (rotating handle) or with the top handle switch (small one) or both? I though you could only adjust the zoom speed for the top handle one

Andrew, I still haven't found the unit, but it was a general purpose unit. I might be drooling about this, but I'm sure I saw that unit the other day. It's similar to the focus units with rails.

A quick suggestion I tried and sort of works with this lousy zoom:
I tried a trick from many years ago that worked with a Panasonic 460 cam we had. I needed some extreme slows, so used a hollow aluminum rod from a old discarded TV antenna (light, strong enough and free) and put it over the little handle on the zoom. Worked pretty well and gave me the more precise control I needed mechanically.

I just did the same with the little zoom knob on an EX1R and removed the screw and carefully crimped the 10-11" rod over the screw evenly. It's secure and does allow me some pretty slow moves.

A large double action wheel would work better, using the teeth on the zoom ring, but...haven't seen anyone make one yet. Any takers?

I am a little confused

are you experiencing this issue with the main zoom switch (rotating handle) or with the top handle switch (small one) or both? I though you could only adjust the zoom speed for the top handle one

It's jerky no matter what rocker you use. It's just that the top handle one is preset to a constant speed and it's easy to be consistent when testing.


just try it for yourself, set the top handle speed below 8, point the camera down at an angle and it will be jerky.

I tested four different cameras, one old EX1, my EX1 from one of the last batches made, and two newer EX1r's. They all jerk when pointed down and they're all smooth when pointed up!

nothing's perfect...

Let's just face it, we got jerked around on this one by Sony...

It's jerky no matter what rocker you use. It's just that the top handle one is preset to a constant speed and it's easy to be consistent when testing.


just try it for yourself, set the top handle speed below 8, point the camera down at an angle and it will be jerky.

I tested four different cameras, one old EX1, my EX1 from one of the last batches made, and two newer EX1r's. They all jerk when pointed down and they're all smooth when pointed up!

nothing's perfect...

just tried what you suggested
I set the top handle speed (low) as 4 and it's absolutely perfect....no jerk at all!!
on the other hand, trying to do lower speed with the rotating handle rocker, it's terrible and really noticeable

so in my case it seems like I can survive....as I only have 50% of the problem

incidentally, I've noticed that for values lower than 8, the menu doesn't really use numbers anymore but alternates _ and * characters..... is this normal??
I even tried to use 1 and still works fine!

I get the _ and * characters on my EX1R too. I think that's normal on the new model/firmware. Love the camera and workflow to bits. No regrets. Wouldn't switch if you paid me. I just finished editing a piece and used all digital zooms. The footage holds up great. I know it doesn't suffice for all cases.

It's hard for me to say this because I LOVE my EX1R....however, I had this problem and any speed below 13! I sent it back to Sony and they replaced the lens with a new one. (took about 3 weeks) The new lens is much better but can still stutter at 8 on occasion. (not too bad now)

The problem is the Fujinon lens motor/servo. It simply does not have the torque to smoothly rotate at slow speeds. I suspect Fujinon is paying the price for all these returned EX's

It's a shame cause the EX cameras are fantastic in every other aspect.

CT

Hello there,

As a crane and Jib operator I am very depended on a good zoom lens.
Working with the sony EX1 - EX3 has always been mayor troubles, first of all finding a good conversion cable is a challenge.
Besides that the zoom is never a perfect smooth motion, there is always a jitter, shock, or a bad start-stop.
Using a zoom in a crane movement is part of the motion, so most of my footage would end up useless.
But for all of you dealing with this problem, this is what I did. I got on of those feather touch zoom kits from camera turret company.
Broadcast and DSLR Lens Controls from CameraTurret Inc. (http://cameraturret.com/lenscontrols.htm).
It comes with a 0.8m gear but on request you can get other pitches to match your fujinon or canon lens.
I've always got this little kit with me and I need to use it oftnen, it also gives me the ability to zoom on DSLR camera's.
It gives a really smooth zoom, better than the stock lens. The only thing that you need to make sure is that you can mount it on your 15mm rods.
For me this is the best solution for all those jerky zooms or when I do not have the right conversion cable for all those different lenses out there.
Especially on the Sony camera's
.

Hopefully this could be a solution for you to.

Joey

Thanks for sharing, Joey - awesome info, awesome device. :-)